Some Pointers For Tourists

[Ping]

Not having a dig at you Woohoo, just pointing out a pertinent truth: Try reading William Warren's excellent book about the 'silk king' Jim Thompson. Thompson lived in Bangkok for around twenty years until his disappearance in '67, yet never learnt the language. He was certainly not disrespectful of Thais - quite the opposite. So, again, the dangers of generalising...

[chiang mai]

Not having a dig at you Woohoo, just pointing out a pertinent truth: Try reading William Warren's excellent book about the 'silk king' Jim Thompson. Thompson lived in Bangkok for around twenty years until his disappearance in '67, yet never learnt the language. He was certainly not disrespectful of Thais - quite the opposite. So, again, the dangers of generalising...

Yes, but he did disappear though!

[maccaroni man]

One thing for sure; tourist or expat, fluent in thai or moron as myself, we will all pay double at the parks. Thailand it is amazing.

[Ping]

Not having a dig at you Woohoo, just pointing out a pertinent truth: Try reading William Warren's excellent book about the 'silk king' Jim Thompson. Thompson lived in Bangkok for around twenty years until his disappearance in '67, yet never learnt the language. He was certainly not disrespectful of Thais - quite the opposite. So, again, the dangers of generalising...

Yes, but he did disappear though!

(Yes, but in the Cameron Highlands [Malaysia].)

[chiang mai]

Not having a dig at you Woohoo, just pointing out a pertinent truth: Try reading William Warren's excellent book about the 'silk king' Jim Thompson. Thompson lived in Bangkok for around twenty years until his disappearance in '67, yet never learnt the language. He was certainly not disrespectful of Thais - quite the opposite. So, again, the dangers of generalising...

Yes, but he did disappear though!

(Yes, but in the Cameron Highlands [Malaysia].)

Ah, well, perhaps then he didn't speak Malay either?

[ade100]

When your taxi driver overcharges you by 100 baht on your 250 baht journey, don't be surprised – most people in Thailand are very poor. Remember that even including the additional 100 baht, you just travelled 20 kms for a price equal to that of opening the passenger door of a black cab in London.

Being ripped off is being ripped off, in any country.

I'm all in favour of the two tier pricing structure. Actually, I'd extend it to 3 - dirt cheap for Thais, dead expensive for tourists and plain old market rate/value for money for ex-pats.

I like that idea.

It's obviously unworkable, but does anyone think there's mileage in producing and selling an expat badge or wristband etc? It could be sold only to those that can produce local ID and be a sign for the pesterers to stop treating us like tourists and annoying the hel_l out of us.

No need for a resident badge for me. I've got this one covered. I always wear a smart shirt with a collar, one that has actually been ironed. No whacky shorts. I know enough Thai to go shopping at the local markets and when I come to a halt on my scooter I only have to put one foot down.

So as far as I am concerned I am atotally different race to the tourists. And my Thai girlfriend agrees with me (its just possible she's trying to humour me…no, no I'm sure that's not the case)

A few other things I try to avoid are:

1 Walking round the shops with a flabby, pink girlfriends in a bikini smoking a cigarette.

2 Sporting a facial expression that says "I am having the time of my life in a far-flung and exotic land"

3 Attempting to buy alcohol from shops before 5pm

Voila. Who needs a badge?

Me. I do all those 3 things, though it is true I wouldn't be seen dead in an ironed shirt. I also expressly avert my attention from any hawker or pesterer. I sarcastically say "is it? that's nice dear" when they point out the long line of red van things are in fact tuk tuk tuk tuks.

...or as I sometimes reply when they say, 'Tuk Tuk?'; 'Yes, it's a Tuk Tuk'. (That's when I can be bothered. Gawd I despise them!)

I usually dangle my car keys and say "CRV, CRV".

When I get hassled by tuk tuk drivers I do just the same as when anyone tries to sell me anything in Thailand. I reply to them in French (or sometimes Italian). The advantages of this are numerous. First it ends the conversation immediately. Second, it allows me to challange the Thai hegemony of believing in the existance of a place called "farangland" where everyone is Caucasian and speaks English and lastly, it allows me to practice my French.

Should tuk tuk drivers ever cotton on to the fact that there is more than one language spoken by Caucasians, and start learning them, I shall teach myself Zulu.

[billythehat]

Absolutely sound advice, I can concur. I use Irish Gaelic, which has worked marvellously in my encounters with the unpleasant variety of wee brown folk. The art of barely audible monosyllabic monotone is totally lost on them.

A double-edged sword it is too, as it works on many of the concrete-slipper brigade, sorry, my humble apologies, I mean expats. Once, a particularly dull American chap was berating me about my dear hat, and I replied in IG, to which he responded with:

“Hey, buddy, are you Dutch or something?”…..

[sweetchariot]

Another word of advice for tourists: If you decide to become an expat please refrain from unsolicited pontificating your "astonishing" knowledge of Thailand on public internet forums Because even after being here 20+ years you won't have a clue.

No need for a resident badge for me. I've got this one covered. I always wear a smart shirt with a collar, one that has actually been ironed. No whacky shorts. I know enough Thai to go shopping at the local markets and when I come to a halt on my scooter I only have to put one foot down.

So as far as I am concerned I am atotally different race to the tourists. And my Thai girlfriend agrees with me (its just possible she's trying to humour me…no, no I'm sure that's not the case)

A few other things I try to avoid are:

1 Walking round the shops with a flabby, pink girlfriends in a bikini smoking a cigarette.

2 Sporting a facial expression that says "I am having the time of my life in a far-flung and exotic land"

3 Attempting to buy alcohol from shops before 5pm

Voila. Who needs a badge?

Hmmm.....Ade, did you read Boraccho's post before you chipped in with your holier than thou sh1t?

Boraccho - best post of the thread, next to the OP. I come across alot of guys every day who have been here 5+ years pontificating (nice word) their astonishing knowledge. Used to work in corporate banking - 1st rule of thumb with any clients: a little knowledge is dangerous.

Edit: Spelt Ade wrong - haha

Edited December 4, 2007 by sweetchariot

[koheesti]

I'm not sure who this thread makes look worse, the ignorant tourist or the holier-than-thou expats.

[kudroz]

**removed my post. I was off-topic

Edited December 4, 2007 by kudroz

[geriatrickid]

Before emptying the collective bladders upon the "tourists" please keep in mind that a great deal of their behaviour arises from the tourists exagerated expectations that are fed by mutiple advertising campaigns including TAT's Amazing Thailand materials. Having spent alot of time over the past month looking at the same flashy airline magazines showing exotic pictorials, and offering all sorts of savory delights to tempt even the most Calvinist of folk, it's not hard to see how some people can develop unrealistic expectations and act accordingly. Heck, it's getting to the point that I am wondering if the dour ladies that clean the condo are secretly harbouring desires for my plump pasty white body.......

The TAT website which has taken the lead on responsible promotion and is tamer than alot of the package tour promoters out there, features such items as;

"Excite Yourself with a Myriad of Thai Trends" — targetted at the new generation of young travellers, and covering the new boutique hotels, shopping centres, restaurants, nightlife, and entertainment (my bold)

Here's an excerpt on the part on Bargaining;

Unless they've got you pegged for a real greenhorn, most vendors will quote a price about 40% or so higher than what they are willing to settle for. YIKES! I can't get that. That's why I stick to Jungceylon where the shop clerks take pity on me and point out that I require the fat size which they politely term Dutch (L), German (XL) and American (XXL)

There is an image honed over the years in the west that led tourists to perceive Thailand as a place for easy sex, where you could buy anything you wanted etc. That perception is slow to change despite the emphasis upon the more positive aspects of Thailand. Fortunately, no one asks me if I get sex in exchange for a pack of chiclets as happened 15 years ago.

[ade100]

Another word of advice for tourists: If you decide to become an expat please refrain from unsolicited pontificating your "astonishing" knowledge of Thailand on public internet forums Because even after being here 20+ years you won't have a clue.

No need for a resident badge for me. I've got this one covered. I always wear a smart shirt with a collar, one that has actually been ironed. No whacky shorts. I know enough Thai to go shopping at the local markets and when I come to a halt on my scooter I only have to put one foot down.

Voila. Who needs a badge?

Hmmm.....Ade, did you read Boraccho's post before you chipped in with your holier than thou sh1t?

Boraccho - best post of the thread, next to the OP. I come across alot of guys every day who have been here 5+ years pontificating (nice word) their astonishing knowledge. Used to work in corporate banking - 1st rule of thumb with any clients: a little knowledge is dangerous.

Edit: Spelt Ade wrong - haha

Thank you! Nice to have someone acknowledge my astonishing knowledge of Thailand at last. In fact it only took me a year to figure that locals only put one foot down when stopping on their scooters and don't wear whacky shorts. Who knows what incites I will come with after 5 years. This is living anthropology.

Not sure what your word “sh1t” means but give me a few more years on the forum and I’m sure I will figure that out too.

Thanks again for your support.

[chiang mai]

All quite odd really! The original post was a light hearted, slightly humorous dig at new tourists here in Thailand. There's no pontificating or patronsing to be had here. Most people seem to have seen the humor but why others did not shall remain a mystery I suppose - I suspect it must be a cultural thing as it relates to Brits and Americans. Oh well.

[huggybear]

We see lots of posts in this forum from tourists and casual visitors to Thailand complaining about this and that, "I found a cockroach in the hotel bathroom", "I got ripped off for 100 baht by a taxi driver" and "this local man was so rude and completely ignored me, even though I was speaking English to him". Fair enough I suppose, we all have things that annoy us from time to time but what strikes me is the extent to which people travel from the West and other locales to Thailand for a holiday and the degree to which they are completely unprepared for the experience – pity the poor locals is my immediate thought. My second thought is to think how much western tourists annoy me sometimes so I thought I'd have a not so quick rant about them. So, dear tourist, please take note of the following:

If I might add:

Dear tourist when a local speaks pidgeon English to you do not feel obliged to speak crappy pidgeon back to them. Do them a favor and answer in the best English you know. (I say "as you know" for the Aussies and Welsh I know, sometimes I don't even understand what the heck they are saying )

Also we love living here under the Thai rules, it's great being able to leave the beach on my bike with Heineken in hand, not mao mind you, just a coldie in hand to sip on the way home, big no-no in the west.

[huggybear]

Just want to say GREAT POST

BT

If I might add:

Dear tourist when a local speaks pidgeon English to you do not feel obliged to speak crappy pidgeon back to them. Do them a favor and answer in the best English you know. (I say "as you know" for the Aussies and Welsh I know, sometimes I don't even understand what the heck they are saying )

Also we love living here under the Thai rules, it's great being able to leave the beach on my bike with Heineken in hand, not mao mind you, just a coldie in hand to sip on the way home, big no-no in the west

[Ping]

There goes some more pontificating... There are entire threads devoted to the debate on using Pidgin English (I assume the poster did not mean to say 'bird speak'). Worth a search, Huggybear, when you are over your (to quote you) "yawning festival". Oh, and thanks for the gratuitous comment about the bike...

[radioguy1450]

I would like to add one wrinkle to the OPs point on taxi drivers ripping you off. If you negotiated the price ahead of time and they then try to screw you, then you DO have the right to bitch and the driver knows it. If you did NOT negotiate the price ahead of time then you are going to be over charged and should learn not to let it happen again.

price always needs to be determined before hand in LOS

[chiang mai]

I don't understand the "pontification" and "holier than thou" brigade in this thread. Whatever is wrong with taking a light hearted view of the differences between expats and tourists and in the process trying to produce an entertaining post that could be useful. Nowhere in the OP does it say "thou shall/must", nobody claims to have superior knowledge of Thailand and be an expert and nowhere does a poster claim to be superior or better than others. I just wonder why some folks take that line and can only assume many have lost their sense of humor and/or balance.

[Zpete]

I am a reg tourist to Thailand, 3 - 4 times a yaer, cupla months each time.

When some tourist starts up in my fave bar, whinging about this and that........

I tell'em, "Shaddup"

I love Thailand, Chalong my main base.

Just as the saying goes, I say to them......

"When in Rome, do as Rome does......."

Why travel if ya want things same as back where ever?

Long may things be different, makes travel more fun.

[chiang mai]

And I do the same thing, shut up and stop complaining and comparing (verbally) I say and I'm tired of hearing it all. But the statement about, "when in Rome", well, yes and no. I agree that it's important for anyone who wants to stay here into the medium or longer term to adapt, fit in and get along with local people and I suppose that is the basis of my OP. But I do not necessarily agree that it's appropriate for folks to forget the proven ways that many things can be improved on, for the benefit of all.

[ashdjin]

people...i've been reading reply's to this topic from start to end...and there is one thing that really puzzles me...and this is thai women...i've been to thailand myself ...i've seen the women...apart from a few exceptions...very few...thai women are avarage...in general...yet most men come for the women...even more stay for the women...and there are enough marrying thai women ...

the question is why...what is so special about them...i personally do not find them special at all...not extremly beautiful ...not extremly humouress(most do not even speak english but men still like them)...most of them shapeless...

what I do not understand is what makes men leave their homes and their women behind and come into a completly different culture with a completly different language that they do not even understand fully to make out and marry thais...what do these women have got that women in their own countries have not...and there is also the cultural matter...do these men really understand and get to a level where they are able to comunicate and get themselves understood by these women...i do not mean english here..i mean deeper communion and self understanding wich is normal inside couples of the same background...

[britmaveric]

Same reasons one falls in love in other countries, not a hard concept.

[chiang mai]

people...i've been reading reply's to this topic from start to end...and there is one thing that really puzzles me...and this is thai women...i've been to thailand myself ...i've seen the women...apart from a few exceptions...very few...thai women are avarage...in general...yet most men come for the women...even more stay for the women...and there are enough marrying thai women ...

the question is why...what is so special about them...i personally do not find them special at all...not extremly beautiful ...not extremly humouress(most do not even speak english but men still like them)...most of them shapeless...

what I do not understand is what makes men leave their homes and their women behind and come into a completly different culture with a completly different language that they do not even understand fully to make out and marry thais...what do these women have got that women in their own countries have not...and there is also the cultural matter...do these men really understand and get to a level where they are able to comunicate and get themselves understood by these women...i do not mean english here..i mean deeper communion and self understanding wich is normal inside couples of the same background...

Your post raises some excellent questions that are simple and honest, all of which are entirely valid although, I suspect you are not going to receive replies of a similar quality.

[WOOHOO]

I would say, yes and no to that britmaveric. Yes there is a percentage, for whom it comes down to the good old fashion, falling in love. I would like to think it was a high percentage. But there is definitely a percentage where ulterior motives come in to play. How many couples do you see where you think 'If that fella was in his country he could never get a girlfriend that young/pretty' or ' she's only with that really old bloke because he's loaded and might take her to Europe or somewhere'. I don't want to come across too judgemental or shallow but we all know it's true. So if you really need to ask why the big fat 60 year old man comes to Thailand & falls in love with a tiny, cute 20 year old, then I really can't help you, cos it's fairly obvious to me.

[Zpete]

Understanding Thai wimmin, no prob.

I wish for her TLC, she wishes for my ATM card.

Simple, where the probs?

[huggybear]

I would say, yes and no to that britmaveric. Yes there is a percentage, for whom it comes down to the good old fashion, falling in love. I would like to think it was a high percentage. But there is definitely a percentage where ulterior motives come in to play. How many couples do you see where you think 'If that fella was in his country he could never get a girlfriend that young/pretty' or ' she's only with that really old bloke because he's loaded and might take her to Europe or somewhere'. I don't want to come across too judgemental or shallow but we all know it's true. So if you really need to ask why the big fat 60 year old man comes to Thailand & falls in love with a tiny, cute 20 year old, then I really can't help you, cos it's fairly obvious to me.

I don't think we can just say that only happens in Thailand.

The big fat guy with the pretty young thing; well the fat guy has a fat wallet too, pretty young thing likes money. Happens the other way around too, older woman with cash, young buck.

It's an old story in whatever country you are in.

[geriatrickid]

people...i've been reading reply's to this topic from start to end..........the question is why...what is so special about them...

There have been many papers published on the subject. Get a cup of coffee, google it and have fun reading about it for the next year.

For a large group of males, it's basically a question of economics. If it weren't for the harsh economic conditions of some women, there would be no hope for a chunk of the west's morbidly obese and knuckle dragging losers to find someone to take them.

You are quite correct in your assessment of some of the local women, particularly the "entertainment" industry folks. Homely, uneducated and downright dull. But when the guy is the same, it's a match made in heaven. On the other hand, I have seen some smokin high quality babes.

I's just not the guys. I've had many a stroll along the beaches and observed some of the ugliest sows that the west has to offer doing their utmost to get into the pants of the beachworker males. The Paradise zone is even creepier since most of the clients look like extras from Dawn of the Living Dead.

However, and I stress this, there are many guys (and women) of varying sexual affiliations that really do find a great partner and they get that because they are decent wonderful people. My neighbour is this old guy and at first glance someone would say what's the old geezer doing with that cute girl, but spend sometime with him and you'd envy the girl because he's a smart classy gentleman with untold charms.

[chiang mai]

people...i've been reading reply's to this topic from start to end..........the question is why...what is so special about them...

There have been many papers published on the subject. Get a cup of coffee, google it and have fun reading about it for the next year.

For a large group of males, it's basically a question of economics. If it weren't for the harsh economic conditions of some women, there would be no hope for a chunk of the west's morbidly obese and knuckle dragging losers to find someone to take them.

You are quite correct in your assessment of some of the local women, particularly the "entertainment" industry folks. Homely, uneducated and downright dull. But when the guy is the same, it's a match made in heaven. On the other hand, I have seen some smokin high quality babes.

I's just not the guys. I've had many a stroll along the beaches and observed some of the ugliest sows that the west has to offer doing their utmost to get into the pants of the beachworker males. The Paradise zone is even creepier since most of the clients look like extras from Dawn of the Living Dead.

However, and I stress this, there are many guys (and women) of varying sexual affiliations that really do find a great partner and they get that because they are decent wonderful people. My neighbour is this old guy and at first glance someone would say what's the old geezer doing with that cute girl, but spend sometime with him and you'd envy the girl because he's a smart classy gentleman with untold charms.

It's far too complex of an issue for most young people to understand and see any answer to, other than the easy immediate answer. To see other than that requires a person to have experienced life for sixty years or more and all that entails, especially their accumulated view on people and relationships et al. Don't understand, must be a sex tourists/sex pat, must have an ego problem and/or too much money, blah blah blah. I don't know about you but I find those discussions enormously tiresome.

[britmaveric]

Opposites attract - and believe it or not beautiful people do fall in love with those not so beautiful and dosh isnt involved.

[WOOHOO]

I don't think the problem is that it's hard to understand Thai / Farang relationships, I think the problem is the range of relationships. You have the already quoted 'fat 60 year old man' who treats bar girls like objects of amusement, as you would maybe a jet ski, (despicable) right up to the couple who meet, date, fall in love & settle down etc, as normal people do all over the world. The problem lies in the fact that there's a million and one other kinds of relationships in between those two examples, and if you don't know where people lie in that range, which more often than not you can't by looking at them, then you are in no position, what so ever to judge. I've got a few friends back home who have settled down with girls they originally met in bars, as thousands of people have. Although it's not something I could have done personally, these people are now in genuine, loving, normal relationships, despite the unorthodox way the relationship started, so how can they be deemed to have done anything wrong? Even the Thai girl who married the Farang for his money and the Farang who married her because he couldn't find love in his own country, again, if they're happy now, who's to say they've done anything wrong either. As Chiang mai said, it's a very complex issue. I suppose one way of looking at it, is if no one is getting used and abused, and both parties are happy, who has the right to be judgmental.

P.S you're right HB 'older women with cash looking for a young buck' do exist as well, but I'm buggered if I could find one when I was younger. God only knows I looked.