Question For All Women

[Jai Dee]

As I read somewhere, men go into a relationship thinking the woman will never change, women go into it thinking the man will change.

I realize that we all change in small ways according to our environment but changes to the point where you are not the same person any more are not what I want.

I think that the key to a long lasting, successful, and mutually-rewarding relationship is to constantly confide in your partner and undergo the inevitable changes together.

[Chris Lawrence]

Meaning?

Sorry Momo for being so short in what I said. It was late. I was really referring to my experience in first relationship that lasted some 18 years. What I found was that it was hard to re-kindle a relationship when the wheels had fallen off. The problem that I had to deal with was with a person that found breaking up and coming back together as being the catalyst for keeping the relationship going. I did on several occasions try and separate but I too fell for the high of sex when we got back together. That is what I see as a fantasy.

Sex in a relationship is great but sometimes one or the other may use it to promote their own fantasy world. Relationships are as I see them very subjective.

I agree with Jai dee' comment it takes a lot of work. The other thing is the need to say sorry and admit when you were wrong, and never let situations fester.

I remember one friend say that early in his relationship he had gf carry a chair that was bought at a garage sale around the corner to her home. For what ever reason he could net do this for her. He would talk when things were bad in the relationship and a common cause of annoyance always was this chair incident. Anyway a few years on they broke up. The funny thing was the woman was harboring a relationship with a man that was in goal, who got out shortly after they broke up. My point is that 'do we really know someone in a relationship'. The answer here I think is that you need to know yourself first, look at the baggage that we drag around, and be prepared to make the hard decisions when needed.

I know that I like being in a relationship and am happy that I have found someone soft gentle and nurturing to my spirit. Its like that line in the movie when Jack Nicholson says 'you make me want to be a better person'; or words to that affect to Helen Hunt.

My friends ex well she married this man had a baby and nursed the man thru methadone. Eventually they separated. I must say that I admire her business savvy but she does try to have the cake and eat it too in relationships.

I hope I haven't rabbited on but thought I should explain my comment.

At the end of the day I just want to be happy in a warm loving and caring r5elationship that I really need to put a lot of work into. Then we can both enjoy the home cooked apple pie and cream.

Kind regards

[kat]

Yeah so enlighten us please. .....WHAT DO MEN WANT??? (could be the sequel to the Mel movie What Do Women Want) You've all had it with trying to work out women so what do you guys really want?

Why play us,marry us,be sex buddies with us,betray,get us pregnant,make us play games,be normal or nuts,buy us,pamper us,give us babies then disappear or lose interest.

I don't care as I'm happy but asking for my disillusioned friends out there What do men really want?Maybe one day I will need this advice who knows?

Is it monogamy (a piece of wood in some guys minds),virtue,submissiveness,agressiveness,a good wife,a good provider,a good time,what's the ultimate goal?

Cut all the shit and come clean.

Hey Momo:

Don't wait around for straight answers on that one, because men often don't know what they want even when they want it

Our discussions on this thread and the next thread over on "Gigs - A Thai Construct?" has got me thinking about things, and made me think that as sexually liberated as I like to think that I am - and have been in my life and especially throughout my twenties and early thirties - I too get emotionally attached which is why I compensated by being over careful later. However, as I said on the gig thread, it is also about becoming more picky and just knowing what you want when you want it - quality rather than quantity. For me, this explains why I usually do want to get attached once I find a quality sex partner, which for me also translates into a potential lover/relationship more than money, etc. However, Asia made my head spin a bit with the pronounced whore/madonna or good/girl bad girl split, which strangely translates into paid sex/free sex over there; I just removed myself from it all as a way to cope. I mean, come on, even with a sex buddy, the word BUDDY is there, and I do expect certain basics of respect and decency , even if it is just about sex.

But, anyway, under what were "normal" circumstances for me, I realized that over the last 10 years or so (in the West) all of my potential or intended "gigs" or one-night stands turned into long term dating, including two of the most intense love/sex relationships of my life to date. So, even in casual sex, there has to be some kind of element going on under the surface to interest me, because that's what fuels my desire/interest. Big surprise - I'm a woman, eh

At any rate, in honor of this thread, I'm going to go out next week and find myself a gig. I'm going to take up the challenge to see if I can just keep it at that level. Of course, I am in the states now, so the framework will be slightly different.

I have set my sights on a target: a beautiful, tall, dark latino guy that I met in East Harlem last month at a party. He had just the right amount of muscles without being ridiculously over built, and longish hair that was still appropriate for a guy with a professional job. He was in his mid-to late thirties, but still looked young and current. Friends told me that he had spotted me as soon as he walked into the party, but I hadn't noticed, because I guess I'm still a little jaded. We ended up talking later in a dark corner until late, and he gave me his business card and cell number before leaving. When I gave him my card, he said: "oh, you're one of those career women, huh?" He also commented that I lived in D.C. - another city! But before leaving, he casually invited me out a few days later, to go dancing at a place where he would be - not really a date, but sort of like, I'm going to be at this place at this time, why don't you show up.

Anyway, I skipped the event for other reasons, returned to DC, and I was worried about his "career" comment anyway. BUT, I think this might be a perfect opportunity for a "gig" or "sex buddy," because even if he has a problem with the "career" thing - which would also be a problem for me - I thought he was hot!

Think I I can pull it off without getting attached? I will be in NY for Thanksgiving; I'm going to go search for his card now and call him - hehe. It's kind of liberating about doing such a thing when you don't care what he thinks, when you just want this body - for uhm - science.

Will check in next week and let you know how it goes. I think in this case we may have a very high chance of good sex and respect without emotional attachment. This will be a great way for me to figure this all out.

So, based on what you know, do you think I can I find great sex AND respect with a gorgeous interesting man WITHOUT attachment? I seriously don't know the answer to that question, so this is genuine research.

Stay tuned .... ha ha!

*edit

Edited November 16, 2007 by kat

[kat]

Ok, as an aside to let you guys know all bets are on:

I dug out his card, called him, he remembers me, and we are going to hang out next week in NY.

Talk to you in a week or so ...

[suegha]

Ok, as an aside to let you guys know all bets are on:

I dug out his card, called him, he remembers me, and we are going to hang out next week in NY.

Talk to you in a week or so ...

Play it cool...

[girlx]

you go girl! i have the same problem as you- can't keep gigs as gigs, i get too attached! think i will try out a sex buddy too as soon as i find someone worthy!

[kat]

Hey girlio:

I think I figured something out, although I can still foresee complications for us: if you do one gig, you have to do more. I think that is the secret to male detachment. I started to get a crush on someone unavailable, so, I rustled up the idea of this gig; great - everything is already starting to get better. What have those stupid crushes done for us anyway?

But then, this possible gig guy also has the potential to be super attractive, so, I may have to find another gig to offset him. I think the key is that you have enough distraction and constantly shifting stimulation that your brain, emotions, and libido can't set or mold onto one person - voila! - the male outlook on life. At least, this is my theory, but there must be something to this - am I right, guys? I'm sure it's not all mindless biology, but a whole lot of management that must go into studied detachment.

Anyway, I'm pretty much set on exploring the mars aspect of my gig-ness. Maybe we should start a sex buddy guide for women, step-by-step.

Ha ha - talk soon, I obviously have a few more things to do.

[Chris Lawrence]

Hey Kat

I think the quality of partners becomes scary as you get on in life. Not that in your thirties is old, its the accumulation of baggage that is the problem. There's and mine.

Sometimes it is good just to f##k your brains out with a sex buddy, but sooner than later emotional attachment takes place from either side. Nothing wrong with it as long as you are not hurting anyone. Not trying to be moralistic about, just what I have experienced. In the end I found a good person and am happy.

good luck

[kat]

Yes, I hear what you're saying Chris, but I'm trying to find an intermediary existence between the "all or nothing" state. That existence has done nothing for me, especially as I've gotten older, and I think I can learn something from men here about it. I already feel so much more empowered just by making the decision. In actual fact, I think I just dumped a couple of bags that I must've picked up recently along the way, so there's always room for housecleaning. Of course I'd like to find the RIGHT longterm mate, but I think this approach will actually be a lot more effective.

BTW, I'm in my forties, and age is not really the same for everyone. Some of us are born with baggage, but that's never stopped men from being attracted when I was young, wild, and full of baggage. If anything, I have less of it because I'm smarter now and have resolved a lot of my emotional issues that I dragged out of a dysfunctional family, so I can't really relate to your age and baggage claim. And BTW, I still attract the same men that I did in my twenties and thirties, so that's not an issue for me yet, either. The forties are actually a pretty hot time for women, so I'm going to make sure that I enjoy it to the fullest.

The only thing that has made it more difficult for me now, is that I know quality and I won't settle for anything less, even for a gig or sex buddy.

[Chris Lawrence]

Kat

All I can say is go girl. Enjoy yourself and you will find yourself.

Don't worry about learning from men learn from yourself. I think men are overrated and I am a male!!!

Your honesty inspires me.

Kind regards

[kat]

Thanks for your kind words, Chris.

[Girlaboutglobe]

Hey if anyone's still reading this post (and even if they're not), I read about a survey that I thought was relevant to the earlier part of this thread, apparently couples surveyed reported more excitement and satisfaction in the bedroom (both the females and the males) when the woman leaned more toward the feminist end of the spectrum. At first this seems counter-intuitive, but then if you consider that, assuming "more feminist" means more self advocating, a girl is more likely to enjoy sex when she's doing it when and how she wants to, and people always put more effort into doing things that hey actually want to do, it's not that surprising at all.

Also a (western) psychologist friend of mine once said that in her experience as a family counsellor she found that sex was a pretty accurate barometer for the state of the relationship. Most often this means that if the woman trusts her partner and feels cherished by him she's likely to be more free and adventurous in the bedroom; and if the man feels cherished by his partner he won't go looking for sex elsewhere. Interesting at least, at best it makes a lot of sense. Now I'm not certain how culture plays a role, but undoubtedly environment can exacerbate existing relationship problems. Not to mention that affairs are more accessible and more "accepted" in Thailand; if somebody's got the urge to stray there's not much to get in their way.

I love threads about relationships in Thailand, they're so interesting!

[kat]

Yeah, we're still reading, Girlabout. Thanks for sharing that survey ... interesting but not surprising ...

[ViolentFemme]

That's a great post, Girlaboutglobe

I consider myself a bit of a feminist. (OK - A LOT of a feminist ) But I can be submissive when the mood strikes. A lot of women like to be controlled in the bedroom sometimes. But I guess that there is a difference between WANTING to be controlled and not knowing any better. I live in the Middle East, and I feel that a lot of women just aren't aware that they can actually expect certain things in the bedroom. Sometimes it's like they still believe the female orgasm is a myth and sex is simply for male pleasure and baby making *frustration!*

A lot of men like submissive women. A lot don't. I personally wouldn't be able to be with someone who didn't respect and love the fact that I have my own mind and my own needs in the bedroom.

To be honest, I have NO idea what men like or want. Like Girlaboutglobe said, everyone wants to feel special. For sex specifically, though...Chemistry is really important to me. It doesn't matter if you have nothing interesting to say or no personality at all...as long as I get tingles up my spine when you touch my arm..it's all good

ps- my first post!

Edited November 19, 2007 by ViolentFemme

[Chris Lawrence]

I want an equal in the bedroom where we both get to explore ourselves to be comfortable.

I know I have talked to other couples about this but comfortability is actually when you can fart in front of each other. A friend of mine said it took him seven years to get this comfortable.

Look I know this above might be a bit off track, but to me the bedroom needs respect, tenderness, honesty, compassion and love for a success.

I read this joke in the joke section;

Sam and Bessie are senior citizens, and Sam has always wanted an expensive pair of alligator cowboy boots. Seeing them on sale one day, he buys a pair and wears them home, asking Bessie, "So, do you notice anything different about me?"

"What's different? It's the same shirt you wore yesterday and the same pants."

Frustrated, Sam goes into the bathroom, undresses and comes out completely naked, wearing only his new boots. Again he says, "Bessie, do you notice anything different?"

"What's different, Sam? It's hanging down today; it was hanging down yesterday and will be hanging down again tomorrow."

Angrily, Sam yells, "Do you know why it's hanging down? 'Cause it's looking at my new boots!!"

Bessie replies, "You should've bought a hat!"

More the Venus and Mars approach of two different needs, gentleman accomplishing his own fantasy; whist the purchase of a hat may have progressed her desired outcome. But no one really talking!

We are all different and at times come with hidden agendas, sometimes it just working these things out in a non confrontational way, but then quickly make up your mind is this the person I will grow old with.

Just my thoughts

Regards

Chris