Americans: Are You Still Holding Out In Thailand ?

[LaoPo]

Short version of the answer yes it has effected my living here drastically, roughly a 30% redution in usable income.

Ouch...that hurts !

LaoPo

[Jingthing]

It has put a certain reality check on my spending. I do depend on mostly dollar based investments. For example, I had wanted to take a month long trip to Australia, I went to Chiang Mai instead. I am glad I have already traveled all over Europe before because they won' t be seeing me again this life.

To the comments on the future of American sex tourism, I am American, and there is international sex tourism to America and to many other countries. This is most noticeable in places like Las Vegas and San Francisco. I think Thailand gets a bum rap in this regard. I would find amusement if Americans get a taste of their own medicine and became the butt of the same kinds of jokes as Thailand.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Jingthing

[jetjock]

The meltdown is the US Dollar is a reminder that in a global economy it may be wise to diversify savings and investments internationally if one plans on traveling or living in other parts of the world. As a Yank who travels a lot, this dollar meltdown is hitting me in the pocketbook but not as bad a many people because I have always kept a few foreign currency savings accounts in other parts of the world. I am not sure if the dollar will ever fully come back so to hedge against that possibility, I have now discovered a large internet bank in the US with main offices in Florida called Everbank that you can open foreign currency deposit accounts in almost any currency or in basket of currencies and they draw fairly good interest. The bank has a vey good reputation and the thing that I like about this as opposed to some of my foreign accounts is that their foreign currency accounts are FDIC insured (which of course does not protect against currency fluctuation but does protect against bank failure) which therefore helps me sleep better at night.

Edited November 22, 2007 by jetjock

[jaideeguy]

As another 'whining' amerikan, I can honestly admit to hurting, not only my $'s shrinking, but also getting it from the other side [local thai inflation] and it is a double whammy!! seeing supermarket prices, gas, electricity, etc going up weekly is painful and i can only hope to ride out this storm. meanwhile, i'm considering investing in other currencies just to hedge my $'s, in case the $ does meltdown.

As far as blame for this situation......it's easy to blame 'baby bush' for the war, debt, etc, but in my view, he is just a [stupid pompus] little puppet and his strings are being pulled by much bigger 'puppet masters' that are actually making BIG $'s on war, oil prices and they are not all amerikan either.

My 2cents....

[sbk]

Another friendly reminder: this is not a topic about which country has the most prostitutes, or even about how Americans back home live. Americans in Thailand, how does the drop in the dollar's value affect you living in Thailand?

Lets keep it on topic please

[ray23]

Short version of the answer yes it has effected my living here drastically, roughly a 30% redution in usable income.

Ouch...that hurts !

LaoPo

Where really shows is that all though my income is reduced my costs are not.

I did note some refrence to the old days when the baht was at 25. So lets use 1996 before the crash, what could you buy for 100 baht? There is a thing called inflation and over ten years that can represent a lot. What did a liter of fuel cost in 1996. What could you do with 100baht in 1996, what can you do with it 2007?

One old timer explained to me in those days he could get a good lunch a couple of beers and a afternoon with a lady for a 100 baht. True not true I don't know wasn't here. But try that today.

What did a rai of land cost in 1996, today within 15 Klms of Udon unless you catch a panic sale you can count on 300 to 400K.

To me it matters not what the rate of exchange is, what matters is my purchasing power and that is what is effected.

I don't have to run for the hills simply because I had left a good size buffer between my expenses and income. It does effect my play money and monthly savings at this juncture. That is really tight. So I play less and I save less. But I am fortunate I have a retirement that is over three thousand dollars a month. But not many military retirees that I have met have that much, nor the those retired on Social Security.

So let understand something I'm not a whiner, I'm very grateful for what I have.

Could I survive 25 to one yes, but it will not be the retirement I envisioned by any means.

The down side is I have a home here and all the goodies that go with it, I can not recreate that somewhere else these days. Because of physical impairments, so my work days are over. That translates into I have to make it work here.

Where I'm fortunate is I had already started down the path of major purchases, couldn't buy things outright but I could get the sizeable down payments out of the way.

Today as the purchase power stands I would not have retired here having to put together those same funds to accomplish what I have. So in the end I was lucky.

Edited November 23, 2007 by ray23

[mattias33]

To me it matters not what the rate of exchange is what matters is my purchasing power and that is what is effected.

Agreed. After 4 pages, theres the answer!

Good post ray23.

Edited November 23, 2007 by mattias33

[mellow1]

Short version of the answer yes it has effected my living here drastically, roughly a 30% redution in usable income.

Ouch...that hurts !

LaoPo

Where really shows is that all though my income is reduced my costs are not.

I did note some refrence to the old days when the baht was at 25. So lets use 1996 before the crash, what could you buy for 100 baht? There is a thing called inflation and over ten years that can represent a lot. What did a liter of fuel cost in 1996. What could you do with 100baht in 1996, what can you do with it 2007?

One old timer explained to me in those days he could get a good lunch a couple of beers and a afternoon with a lady for a 100 baht. True not true I don't know wasn't here. But try that today.

What did a rai of land cost in 1996, today within 15 Klms of Udon unless you catch a panic sale you can count on 300 to 400K.

To me it matters not what the rate of exchange is, what matters is my purchasing power and that is what is effected.

I don't have to run for the hills simply because I had left a good size buffer between my expenses and income. It does effect my play money and monthly savings at this juncture. That is really tight. So I play less and I save less. But I am fortunate I have a retirement that is over three thousand dollars a month. But not many military retirees that I have met have that much, nor the those retired on Social Security.

So let understand something I'm not a whiner, I'm very grateful for what I have.

Could I survive 25 to one yes, but it will not be the retirement I envisioned by any means.

The down side is I have a home here and all the goodies that go with it, I can not recreate that somewhere else these days. Because of physical impairments, so my work days are over. That translates into I have to make it work here.

Where I'm fortunate is I had already started down the path of major purchases, couldn't buy things outright but I could get the sizeable down payments out of the way.

Today as the purchase power stands I would not have retired here having to put together those same funds to accomplish what I have. So in the end I was lucky.

In a similar situation as yourself in regards of money spent towards home, furniture, etc.. I also have seen my $ income shrink due to the exchange rates. Six years ago we made a contract for the construction of our home. A year later when construction started, materials had already gone up, and the builder was moaning about it. In the last 5 years these same materials have increased sharply. I could not afford to build this same house today, nor fill it with all the furniture, landscape, etc..

I also feel that prices in general have risen sharply in Thailand over that same period of time, where the Thai Baht also doesn't have anywhere near the same purchasing power as before. I believe we will continue to be able to live well with our $ retirement income, but what helps a lot is not having any debts.

As far as the devaluation of the Dollar, it will fluctuate back up, and the doomsday scenario predicted for the US will not happen. It is a scenario much more likely for many other countries, especially countries who do not have the available vast empty stretches of good land like in the US, and the large amount available natural resources, including oil. The US can easily feed itself, and produce the things it needs, unlike so many other countries. The concept of self sufficiency can be easily achieved in the US, hence the bitterness and jealousy of so many. People who have never lived there cannot possibly imagine the vastness of the country, the varied and numerous ethnic groups, production levels, etc.. without living there and participating, and traveling the states. Like in Thailand it takes years for the eyes to see and to begin to understand. Many European countries have large deficits, with many social welfare programs that are causing them much pain. Reforms are imminent and the ones gloating today will be crying tomorrow. Life is a roller coaster ride with many ups and downs. Its also short, so lets enjoy it while we can.

[PeaceBlondie]

I think I just deleted 32 off topic posts. One more and the thread is closed. Have a nice day.

[Sakeopete]

Just a couple of points from the perspective of a Canadian working in the UK being payed in US dollars. Since 2001 my spending power has stayed similar only because of promtions and pay raises offsetting the currency loss. However if the dollar hadn't dropped so much I would have almost 100k baht/month more to spend. The real loss is to the Thai local economy as that is money I don't have to employ locals or buy products.

From what I see working in the UK is that its following the same path as the US and personal debt is getting out of hand. Watch telly in the UK and every second comercial is offering people easy ways of morgaging their homes to pay off debt or painlessly going bankrupt. I'm not sure about the rest of Europe but judging by the high costs of everything and the high wages needed to live there I can't see that as a good thing long term.

I may be totaly wrong in my thinking so please correct me. Asia seems to be doing well but should the gloom and doom prediction come true and the US is on its financial knees who is Asia and the rest of the world going to sell too? Asia may manufacter everything but they consume little of it compared to Americans and that would effect Europe as well who already is borderline protectionist. I see a domino effect happening TBH and if America has less purchasing power factories in Asia will close thus driving down their economies and currencies. All this economic prosperty in Asia is based largely on exports to Noth America and Europe are they going to bite the hand that feeds them?

Edited November 23, 2007 by Sakeopete

[Firefan]

My overseas income is partly in USD - but like others, I am generally diversified across currencies (even though denominated in USD as investing via US based funds and ETFs).

I also bring in lumpsums to cover 1-2 years of expenses at a time, so my known expenses are thereby locked in a bit more.

Personally I have seen an inflation of about 10%/year(measured in THB) in the time I have lived/visited here which spans 10 years+.

Ways to reduce the impact of USD weakness and inflation in general is of course to do "smarter" shopping whereever possible.

Check your internet promotions, check your mobile phone promotions, buy groceries in Tesco Lotus rather than 7-11(about 20% more expensive), enjoy your beers more at home rather than at a bar, or take use of happy hours - and so forth. I.e. small changes that might make up for some of the buying power lost, without impacting lifestyle in a way that leads one to having to decide between Whiskas or Meow Mix! (note; Meow Mix is best!).

Cheers!

Ps. saving tip of the day cutting the 10% inflation on beers: 7-11(!) currently having promotion for large Cheers beers at 30 Baht a piece - that is 10% cheaper than the same beer or Leo and Chang I saw in Tesco Lotus.

[zink]

The U.S. Dollar Index, which measures its performance against six trading partners, has fallen 9.4 percent this year to a record low. The dollar rose 0.2 percent today to $1.4633 to the euro and fell 0.6 percent to 110.42 yen.

EURUSD is now 1.4790

From 1.4660 to 1.4790 in 4 hours.

And now three days later EURUSD is about 1.49...

However, it seems that dollar onshore rate hasn't decreased against the baht, which means that baht is now weaker against most other currencies.

[LaoPo]

I think I just deleted 32 off topic posts. One more and the thread is closed. Have a nice day.

Please...PeaceBlondie, I agree that a lot of posters drift away from (32 posts deleted... ) the main question, but 'one more off topic post and the thread will be closed' would be unfair to the interested members who are dealing with a major problem in Thailand: the declining Dollar and how to cope with it.

Please don't close the thread :D

LaoPo

[warriors]

Nope I send my money when the Thai government requires me to send it over to Thailand. It come over from New Zealand $ to Thai Bhat.

If you are a New Zealander you are used to living with your nz $ not been strong for years and years MANY years.

So the USA$ dropping ( OH MY HEART BLEEDS FOR YOU) You had to good for too long learn to live like the rest of the world.

[dog412]

Nope I send my money when the Thai government requires me to send it over to Thailand. It come over from New Zealand $ to Thai Bhat.

If you are a New Zealander you are used to living with your nz $ not been strong for years and years MANY years.

So the USA$ dropping ( OH MY HEART BLEEDS FOR YOU) You had to good for too long learn to live like the rest of the world.

are you American? if not what was the purpose of your post, considering the topic? besides the "smileys" of course.

[ray23]

LAo Poa good topic I thought. It seems to me we a farrangs living here are pretty much in the same boat and what effects one group of us here tends to effect the others as well. I have met a lot of other farrangs from different countries here prettty much all of them are a pretty good group of people. Who were not happy in thier home countries. Came here paid thier prices and created a new life.

I have seen people from all countries that struggle here and others that are really very comfortable. I have met guys who started out with a lot of money and have lost it toned down thier living standards either to hold on to the dream or played with all they had to make that new life here and lost. It happens and sometimes they just are not in positions to return and build all over again.

Never once did I take any joy in seeing thier suffering, nor did I ever have anyone from another country say to me the things we see in some threads here. Must be something very different about the cyber world then real life.

I have been trying to find out how many farrangs live in Thailand, found a two year old report that said just a little over 100K not fully represented as it only showed those with work permits. In that group American's were actually a pretty small number about 5700. More of course, but I have never been able to find the real numbers.

Whatever the balance is more then likely they are getting thier funding in dollars, the answer of course is that they have been effected by all this. The other part of that is it is not because of anything they have done personally. I can assure you that the numbers here or the power represented by the that group of people have nothing to do with the path Americans has traveled, the numbers are not significant enough to have changed anything politically.

So it becomes very difficult to understand some of the remarks I see from time to time. In the end no matter what country we come from in the end we are expats. We all face the same problems in establishing a life in a country where we are guests, subject to an annual review to see if we are going to be allowed to stay as guests. We have much more in common with one another these days in some cases even more the our home countrymen.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could recognize what makes us simliar instead of where we came from. Support eachother when the need arises. In my daily life I see that, on forums just doesn't seem to happen. Maybe it's because a lot have not yet made that transition to expat, don't truly understand that here, you will have friends from allover the world and begin to get a little better undertanding of them as people instead of the geographical location they came from.

Today I'm going on a bike ride with a some guy's here in Udon, pretty much a weekly event, there will be guys on that ride from six different countries. The fact that I'm American won't have anything to do with how things go today. They will look at me based on what I do today. If I could and they needed help I wouldn't hesitate, nor would they for me. That is what real expat life is about.

Anyway thanks for the thread, I was looking forward to seeing how others were adapting but maybe it's not to be.

[mellow1]

^^^^ It seems as even though, ray 23 gets his income in American Dollars, is of course in the same position as many others in the loss of his purchasing power, he nonetheless keeps a positive, down to earth, friendly outlook towards his fellow men. I am glad that he is a fellow American, and an expat in Thailand. I hope such an attitude will rub off on others, even if they get a better exchange rate for their money.

[Beardog]

So it becomes very difficult to understand some of the remarks I see from time to time. In the end no matter what country we come from in the end we are expats. We all face the same problems in establishing a life in a country where we are guests, subject to an annual review to see if we are going to be allowed to stay as guests. We have much more in common with one another these days in some cases even more the our home countrymen.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could recognize what makes us similar instead of where we came from. Support eachother when the need arises. In my daily life I see that, on forums just doesn't seem to happen. Maybe it's because a lot have not yet made that transition to expat, don't truly understand that here, you will have friends from allover the world and begin to get a little better understanding of them as people instead of the geographical location they came from.

Ray simple & wonderfully put! The currency goes up & down who cares about another countries losses so you can gain from others miseries. The support you talk about is the right substance , as most of us would rather everyone go up the escalator including the Thai People. No matter how rough it seems to us-their cross to bear is much greater I would rather a weaker dollar any day than to only make $11.00 U.S a day as a top tradesman in this country. 300 baht If they are able to make that still is only 300 baht & it does not go far, even on the cheap.Except for all the western countries 300 baht to spend in a day or 1/2 an hour is small change to us.

Hindsight is great. Now we all know when your form of currency hits what you believe to be the highest- that would be the best time to purchase a lot of baht & sit on it.

I have friends that live in England & Germany (presently) & although their currency is strong against other countries the only time they gain is when traveling to other countries with a weaker currency or in international currency trading. Ask anyone in Germany what they think of the cost of electricity or in England about their tax base they have to fork over.

My friends are getting slaughtered by inflation

When one domino goes the next one follows. US dollar getting weaker is as bad worldwide as any major currency takes a hit. U.S. Dollar goes down the Euro goes up & so does inflation. Not to long ago it was China devaluating their currency & anyone in any stock market was crying.Unless your in a depression or your out of cash things are still alright!Everyone gets to weather the storm so to speak probably more than once in their life. At least if your in a country that it is rather cheap to live a 30 % loss is not all that to worry about.

My friends & family back home are the ones getting hurt far worse. If you have good health you can always make more even if it means it takes longer to make. Now if I was traveling to Europe, that would have an impact on my vacation dreams, simple solution go to Asia where your currency still buys a lot. Make that trip to Europe when USD rebounds.

Beardog

Edited November 25, 2007 by Beardog

[mattias33]

So it becomes very difficult to understand some of the remarks I see from time to time. In the end no matter what country we come from in the end we are expats. We all face the same problems in establishing a life in a country where we are guests, subject to an annual review to see if we are going to be allowed to stay as guests. We have much more in common with one another these days in some cases even more the our home countrymen.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could recognize what makes us similar instead of where we came from. Support eachother when the need arises. In my daily life I see that, on forums just doesn't seem to happen. Maybe it's because a lot have not yet made that transition to expat, don't truly understand that here, you will have friends from allover the world and begin to get a little better understanding of them as people instead of the geographical location they came from.

Ray simple & wonderfully put! The currency goes up & down who cares about another countries losses so you can gain from others miseries. The support you talk about is the right substance , as most of us would rather everyone go up the escalator including the Thai People. No matter how rough it seems to us-their cross to bear is much greater I would rather a weaker dollar any day than to only make $11.00 U.S a day as a top tradesman in this country. 300 baht If they are able to make that still is only 300 baht & it does not go far, even on the cheap.Except for all the western countries 300 baht to spend in a day or 1/2 an hour is small change to us.

Hindsight is great. Now we all know when your form of currency hits what you believe to be the highest- that would be the best time to purchase a lot of baht & sit on it.

I have friends that live in England & Germany (presently) & although their currency is strong against other countries the only time they gain is when traveling to other countries with a weaker currency or in international currency trading. Ask anyone in Germany what they think of the cost of electricity or in England about their tax base they have to fork over.

My friends are getting slaughtered by inflation

When one domino goes the next one follows. US dollar getting weaker is as bad worldwide as any major currency takes a hit. U.S. Dollar goes down the Euro goes up & so does inflation. Not to long ago it was China devaluating their currency & anyone in any stock market was crying.Unless your in a depression or your out of cash things are still alright!Everyone gets to weather the storm so to speak probably more than once in their life. At least if your in a country that it is rather cheap to live a 30 % loss is not all that to worry about.

My friends & family back home are the ones getting hurt far worse. If you have good health you can always make more even if it means it takes longer to make. Now if I was traveling to Europe, that would have an impact on my vacation dreams, simple solution go to Asia where your currency still buys a lot. Make that trip to Europe when USD rebounds.

Beardog

Spot on. I can not agree more and its a very good post. Total agreement.

I have friends, alot of friends, some of them even from U:S with U:S saleries and paychecks. When i meet American people i offer to take the check, i know they are as poor as Thais compared to me (thats the opening thought). My begining thought was that they where hurting. Now i realize that either they dont hurt or they are just not enought smart to realize they are infact hurting more than they possible know. Bottom line for me is: i keep my friends, and as long as they dont realize they are loosing money everyday and still contribute 50/50 to the checks, why can i not relaxe and have fun with these people? Since i like their company and still they have money enough to share the check?. The bottom line of these kind of threads is that we need to know if our bottom-thought that Americans are poor so we need to pick up their check when we drink with them, is true or not? I for one have American people picking up my checks now and then (ok within certain limit i keep it on my plus), and even tipping in with presents. All Americans are not poor people. And i for one say the (few) Americans i know over here that actually make some money and espessially from U.S paychecks are able to still have a good life even after the dollar-dive. And it is also depending if u came here now or some time ago. People (once again im talking about money-making-people on a salery) that came here when a us dollar was worth 45 baht obviously lost money. But if you come here now and your salery is worth 31 baht to every dollar your still a pretty rich guy. If you (i even know some people where this come true) where living in Europe, with that same salery, and move to Thailand now, you are not only rich. You are unbelivible rich all of a sudden and you can spend around and have fun. So its where you came from. Yes, if you came here 10 years ago with retirement founds you are now poor as hel_l. You have to invite your friends to the cheapest place around in case they in fact ask you to tip in on the check. If you came here now, straight from a European country with U:s salery you are infact richer than you been in many years and enjoying the beutiful thailife.

Pretty easy op-question though: The dollar went down, Thats it.