My Ex Is Kicking Me Out Of The Country

[BigDaddy]

Sorry I am a newbie here and dont know if this has come up before.

I need some advice. My ex and I split up over a year ago and I have been looking after our 3 year old son since.

We were never offically married even though we did do a church wedding - just never got around to the courthouse or the equivalent here.

Anyway, the story is that she has been dating since last December and in that time i was trying to get her back. I gave up a couple months ago and started dating too.

Too make a long story short, she went ballistic when she found out i was dating too and she has now given me one month to get out of the country - with my son if I want or she will get me kicked out. If I don't leave she will take my son away from me and disappear. I believe her because she has done it before and this time i think she will do it for good.

She plans on leaving the country too but doesn't want me here because her family will disaprove of her not taking care of our little boy and just going off to do her own thing. If her family sees my boy or I they will give her the third degree.

My problem is that as a single father i have no rights in this country. By not getting married offocially all rights are given to the mother even if she isn't taking care of the kid. She will sign a letter to the embassy allowing me to take care of the boy abroad but wont give me custody.

I would like to leave and just come back but she has spies everywhere. Where I work, where my son goes to school, she has put a keylogger on my computer, check my phone and sent nasty messages to people i am in contact with, she was even able to persuade 1-2 Call to give her sms messages from my phone for three different days ... and finally she has had a private detective follow me and stay outside my house on different occasions. It sounds like paranoia but it is true. Psychotic but thorough this woman is. I said all that because just wanted to explain how dangerous and unfortunately intelligent she can be.

Anyone gone through this kind of bullshit before. I kind of doubt to this extent.

Any ideas about what to do? If I come straight back to Thailand she will likely take the kid away.

Getting official custody in Canada where i am from is pretty much impossible without her official consent. She won't give it even though she has no intention of taking care of our boy.

I hate this power she has over me and i need a way out if possible. Yet I dont want to leave the country for good. I have been in Thailand for a long time, I have been working hard at getting things going for my son and I here and want to stay.

Any ideas????

[sbk]

moved to the Thai Visas forum as it appears you are looking for ways to stay in thailand

///MOVED///

[Chris Lawrence]

Very sad to hear your circumstance.

Is your name on the birth certificate?

Your ex will give a letter to say that you can take your son out of the country? Sometimes hard to uproot yourself but maybe a good option.

Sounds venermous. Best thing is to keep away from this type of treatment, only serves to get angry and at times seek revenge. Not worth the effort mate.

Sometimes moving on and putting some space in between is better option.

What's the best thing you can do for your son? Then make the decision that will benefit him, it will more than likely benefit you.

Good Luck and kind regards

Chris

[MrSquigle]

Tell her you will leave if she gives you custody and you need it to leave and take care of him properly O/S....then when you get it..leave for a little while and come back and tell her to bugger orf.

[pgs]

The keylogger is easy enough to get rid of - use a good anti-virus program or format / reinstall & use a good anti-virus program.

[johnliu]

just tell her she can have the child if she wants...this is the only hold she has over you and you know she dont really wants the child,esp if she is thinking of going overseas..it is not easy for her to bring the child overseas to stay and furthermore,whether her new bf approves or not is another story...by showing her that you intend to give up on the child and maybe have another one with your new gf,i think she will back off....thats the easliest way out..the main thing is let her knows that you are the one paying and taking care of the child,and that you are willing to stop it any time if she does not give way soon...

[torrenova]

Get away from the crazy bitch ASAP. DOn't you have a passport for the baby ? If so, perhaps just use it.

[zorro1]

I have been through a slightly milder situation without a child involved. What is ok for them is NOT okay for you so no dating for you ever... Mine was connected well with family in the police and I personally have seen her have men arrested after getting involved in arguments with her. She had me threatened so i stayed away until she calmed down but it took months , but yes they can be sycotic . As the previous poster said call her bluff and tell her the kid is hers and then avoid any further contact for as long as possible. She will eventually calm down and see logic. At the moment she wants to win at any cost to save face so as incredably difficult as this is for you the only real option is to let her think she has won. Just tell her you agree and you will leave. It will at least get her off your back and buy you some time

Edited November 21, 2007 by zorro1

[mouse]

Get a lawyer, go to court and show the Judge that you wish to raise the child in Thailand so that the child may be raised in a proper home enviroment in a land of it's origin, but, file just before she leaves for wherever and viola you have custody and the right to stay and support the child. Just do a like a Thai man. Ever see a Thai woman pull that stuff with them. Now way! Stop wimping and get busy.

[samran]

Unless she is the minister in charge of immigration, how is she going to kick you out of the country?

It sounds like you are working here, and have a legit work permit. Show is she going to get that revoked?? She doesn't sound like the most well connected person, and apart from the violence, her threats sound rather empty.

Best bet will be to to speak to a good lawyer, to see what your custody options are. It would be good to highlight that you are the one taking care of the child both financially and emotionally.

Apart from that, I'd break off all contact with her, you sound that you are somehow under her spell. Voilence both physcial and psychological happens in both directions in a relationship. Don't be the victim here.

[PattayaParent]

Why not tell her family the whole story as that's what she seems to be afraid of?

How is she going to stop you returning to Thailand once she has left?

I'd get the letter from her saying that she'll allow you to take the child out of the country and then do as the other poster suggests and file a custody suit with that as additional proof that she doesn't want to take care of the child.

Try also to get her family on your side by saying you want to stay and take care of the kid where he's near his grandparents and to get some Thai culture.

And record any 'phone conversations or physical meetings you have with her and keep a record of emails.

Good luck.

[fennielyn]

I'd never have guessed that things were as dire as this. Is there really no way you can have a rational talk with her and make her understand that p. would be better taken care of with you, since she doesn't seem to have any interest in him save to use him as a lever against you? And seriously, what sort of power or influence does she posses that she is able to boot you out of the country?

I really hope your situation is resolved soon. I know how much stress you must be under right now, what with school and taking care of p. single-handedly. Alcohol's (and ice-cream and chocolate and pizza) on us when we're in bkk aiight?

All the best.

Edited November 21, 2007 by fennielyn

[KhaoNiaw]

I can't agree with the advice that you should tell her the child is all hers and call her bluff. You obviously care about your son and that would be a dangerous game to play.

If you've decided that going abroad is the best thing to do, I'd go along with the poster that said you should make her think that you'll need full custody for that to work.

She sounds worried about what her family think of her. At some point, even if it's after you've left the country, try to open communications with them. Explain to them that their daughter is the reason why they can't see their grandchild. If need be, get a Thai friend you trust to help you as an intermediary, just to sound out their view of things. If you get them on your side it could be a big help to you.

[Amethyst]

My Ex Is Kicking Me Out Of The Country, What are the rights of a single father?

Unless she is the minister in charge of immigration, how is she going to kick you out of the country?

Who is thinks she is ? No matter who she is , She cant kick you out of the Country . Unless if she is connected to the RF.

I think she is just jealous of you dating other girls

Edited November 21, 2007 by tytus

[zorro1]

What visa does the OP hold? it may help with court proceedings and does he have enough to fight it as legally I doubt whether he has any hope of keeping the child especially here in Thailand. Picture your self in a Thai court in front of a Thai judge with the Thai mother of the child smiling sweetly. and NO marriage certificate....There are many ways a crazy bitch can have you thrown out of the country and non of them would be legal if you get my drift. He is clearly dealing with a very deranged woman and is very concerned and only he knows what she is capable of so I don't think we can generalise. I don't think the op is a wimp as suggested. There's probably more to this story than was posted and I get the feeling he didn't come to this forum to be told "go get a lawyer"

she needs to be out played at her own game and wish I had the answers.

Edited November 21, 2007 by zorro1

[JimmyCA]

She will sign a letter to the embassy allowing me to take care of the boy abroad but wont give me custody.

If you take your son out of Thailand, Canadan law will apply to custody after 6 months or a year. If you come back to thailand the boy should travel on his Canadian Passport I would think.

[zorro1]

She will sign a letter to the embassy allowing me to take care of the boy abroad but wont give me custody.

If you take your son out of Thailand, Canadan law will apply to custody after 6 months or a year. If you come back to thailand the boy should travel on his Canadian Passport I would think.

excellent idea however best left as a last resort .Tell her your leaving in a month and she can come get the boy then and see if she doesnt have a rethink once she realises your serious she may change her mind when she cools off and then she is gone

Edited November 21, 2007 by zorro1

[Artisi]

If you are the biological father - get a good lawyer and apply for custody of the child, then apply for the appropriate support visa to stay in Thailand - she can't then do anything about you staying in Thailand.

[BigDaddy]

Thanks for the comments everyone

Just got back from the law office to see what my rights are. Unfortunately - none. As of now that is.

I will try to comment on all points and questions you previously posted.

First of all, yes my name is on the birth certificate. But it doesn't mean anything in the Thai system. All rights automatically belong to the mother.

Yes she is very jealous of me dating other girls. That is what made her go a little nuts. And the fact that i lied about dating. Even though I knew it is allowed, I immediately knew that she was going to react badly so I lied. And that is when her detective instincts went into overdrive.

Yes the keylogger was easy to get rid of. She no longer has access to my computer anyway. It served it's purpose for her at the time though. No longer has access to my phone and 1-2 Call has been informed and threatened for that matter.

Calling her bluff is dangerous. She could very well take off out of the country. And as the lawyer said she is not legally bound to tell me where she is going. I don't even know where she lives in Bangkok nor do I have her new phone number. she contacts me only when she wants through her old number. Calling her bluff could work in my favor if her new guy is unwilling to take care of our son as well as her. I don't know him at all except that he has money, is paying for her masters degree and wants her to go to whatever country he is in. No reason not to believe it since there are always rich guys after her.

PattayaParent - going to her family is a little dangerous. The sister may listen and the mother will definitely listen but she is a wildcard that I was considering playing. Too risky though. First of all, my ex has already been saying stories to cover her ass. Next, let's just say that the ex and her mother are cut from the same cloth. It is hard to predict the reaction and more than likely will fight for custody herself. Strange as it sounds but she has tried before. And as of last night, that is the latest threat from my ex is "Sean, my mother is going to take care of Patrick and I will go off to get married and have a new family but first I will get you arrested and kicked out of Thailand. You will never see him again."

Hi Fenn . Rational talk??? Not likely. That quote above is word for word and the sentences/questions immediately preceeding it was "Sean, I don't want to fight anymore. Can we talk nicely? Can we talk like friends?" I don't quite see the rationality behind telling me to be nice and that I won't be seeing my boy again and I will soon be arrested. Reason and logic are not her strong suits in normal life but when she has a hate for someone, then it's all emotion baby.

But that can work for me in some ways. She is not thinking through this. There is another problem to the situation. My son has a very mild form of autism and while he looks and acts like a normal kid, he has a pretty serious delay in language development. As such, it is impossible for him to learn two languages since he is having such difficulties with English. So while my ex's mother is a great caregiver - for his physical and comfort needs - she is hopeless when it comes to his educational and mental developmental needs. And my ex knows this. My ex's mother doesn't speak Thai for one and is always only concerned about my so's physical comfort. She is a nurse and insists she knows more than the doctors about autism and that her methods are perfect for my boy. I beg to differ.

So you may be thinking - just take him home to Canada then. He will have better care there. And actually there isn't really. There is a specialized school in Bangkok that is very well run for kids with special needs and has all of the specialists under one roof. I have looked into it and the system seems as good or better than systems in the west. I have moved to be next to this school so it is easy to take him there. It is very from my ex and her relatives and if they take care of him, I know they will not bring him to the school each day.

The fact is though, that I will eventually have to take my son back to Canada as this special school is only for kids up to about 6. That's fine. I am just not ready to take him back yet. I need another year or so here to get my business set-up well enough in order to transfer it over to Canada.

And besides without official custody I will still have very few rights. I need to get that first. So even if I did go home to Canada she could very easily follow and fight to take him away. I am tired of the power she has over me and never feel secure in being with my boy. This is the 7th time that she has actually taken off or threatened to take off with my boy. I don't want even the hint of that hanging over my head if I took him to Canada.

So the final question is - how can she kick me out of the country? Not that hard I would think. She comes from a good family and has connections everywhere. I think the most obvious is to plant drugs or kiddie porn in my place. Easy enough to change the locks.

Has anyone heard of an ex trying to get someone kicked out of Thailand? Are there any other possible ways to do so? I can't think of any?

Anyway, my lawyer says make an official complaint to the police about the threats and about the possibility for her to take off with my son unannounced and without any forwarding info.

In addition the step we are taking is to fight. The court first will legally declare that I am the father and am taking care of him. That still doesn't give me any more rights but it helps to establish some background before the custody battle. Once it becomes a legal case officially (next week) then she cannot grab him and run. And the longer I can drag it out then the better it looks for me in terms of who is actually taking care of him and paying all the bills. And even if I lose custody I will be able to make it illegal for her to take him away without giving me a forwarding address. That is my real worry and it seems to be solved. No matter what country she goes to, I will find a way to move there and have the right to see my boy whenever I want. She knows how much I love him and she is just trying to hurt me. I want to be there to see my son grow up and make sure he is getting the proper love, care and education.

In the end I think she will back down. She hates me and she ultimately wants to hurt me and never see me again. But when I tell her that I will follow my son to whatever country he is in and still spend as much time as possible with him, then she will hopefully back down. In the end I think she will give me custody. But with her I really never know.

Sorry for the long rant everyone but it is kind of cathartic

So I am ready to battle. I am still concerned if there are other ways one could get kicked out of a country. Have I thought of everything? I am sure more than a few of you out there have experienced similar threats from jilted ex-gf/bfs. I know of a few who have had to deal with it. But mostly they have been idle threats.

So thank you everyone. Your comments are read with interest and appreciation

[BigDaddy]

Another question was asked - what visa do I have. A non-immigrant B.

And Artisi - in a straight custody battle I will lose if she is serious about going through with it.

[BigDaddy]

Sorry I meant to say above that my ex's mother only speaks Thai. No English at all, which is why having my son in her full-time care will only further delay his development

[MrSquigle]

If she is willing to sign the letter to alow him to leave the country, get her to also sign the documents to get him a canadian passport, then canadian citizenship if it is as easy to get as the Oz one is from here.

Just more things to your benefit, also having the letter for court which shows she is willing to let the child go regardless. Do it all nicely and sneaky like.

Dont date any other girls for the time being, promise her you just want the custody of the boy, thats all your focused on.

[Chris Lawrence]

My heart goes out to you Bigdaddy.

My son is now 21 and is downs syndrome. In the end I was dealing with a very cruel and evil women, his mother. She actually moved around the corner from me telling everyone this was necessary so our sons could have constant contact, but told me the reverse, saying she will stop them seeing me, and only wanted me dead. Saying what everyone wanted to hear to look like a saint but actually acting like the devil.

I was bared from attending quarterly face to face school progress reports as I was considered not the primary caregiver. Even though I was involved in the welfare sector and access to many people working in disabilities I could not share this experience. This is were it can hurt. The thing I had to do was show that it was not hurting me. The more I chased the problem the more comfort it seemed to give the other side. It was like the best way for her to stay in contact with me. What I realised was I was just playing with a very sick person. This is only a fraction of the havoc that was caused from the relationship breakdown.

I had to loose the fight to win the war.

There are a number of strategies that you can put in place and it sounds as though you are on the right track. There are no hard and fast rules with this one, but I think the best is your intuitive thought or your gut feelings on what or not to do. Keep good people around you that give good council. They will turn out to be the best of friends. They will also listen when you just need to talk. The only thing I would say to you is to take care of yourself and your needs and this will in turn take care of business. Don't let the mind games get sick thinking staying in your head for too long.

Kind regards

[TonyLeung]

just take the child and go to another part of thailand seems like the obvious answer.

[Sporting Dog]

I can't offer any advice but do wish you good luck.

Remember to stay focussed on the goal you want to achieve, only fight when there's something worth winning, and you may have to lose a few battles to win the war.

Good luck.

[BigDaddy]

Again some interesting comments.

First taking my son to another part of Thailand is not the answer. Taking off with him will not look good legally and that is what I need to focus on. And the main reason not to take off is for his education. He is at a crucial age right now in his development. With the right care and education he can still grow up to be a functioning, independent member of society as opposed to requiring care for the rest of his life. This school he is in now has trained occupational therapists, a child psychologist, speech therapists and teachers trained for children with specific needs all under one roof. It is very important he continues this. No where else in Thailand has this quality of care and believe me I have looked. The majority of schools in the west don't even have this level of care.

Chris, your situation actually sounds worse than mine. How long did all of that go on for?

I am pretty sure that once the legal battle is over then my ex will calm down. She already has a new guy and new goals so I just need to get over the next few months without getting deported for whatever reason.

And Mr Squigle - good advice. No more women. I haven't been on a date for about 6 weeks partly because i am bored and partly because too many women who see a single father think he is looking for a new mother and they tend to get too serious too quickly. Plus after my ex searched my phone and contacted several people, one woman responded and they met up. This woman I met only three times, no sex or anything and I told her several times afterwards that I didn't want to see her anymore. She had been phoning several times a day for a month and saying how much she loved my son and I blah blah blah. Give me a break. Anyway, my ex and this woman barged into my office last week and caused quite a commotion. Embarrassing. I couldn't figure out why this woman came along with my wife and neither of them could give a straight answer. My ex just wanted me to admit that I had been seeing her and that I treated both badly. Again I don't get it because I didn't lie to this girl, didn't have sex with her - I did repeatedly turn her down but that is no reason to make such a stink. I asked to explain why she was trying to help my ex break up my son and I if she had truly loved us? No response from either woman. And no guilt. It shocked me, especially how much they loved putting me in a difficult position. It truly seemed that my ex was trying to bait me into hitting her by the way she was acting in my office so that i would lose my job and possibly get kicked out over that. She has tried and failed to do it before. Strange.

And these aren't bar girls were talking about but upper-middle class women with good families and educations. Now I don't want to generalize that all Thai women are too serious and overly emotional, but I just need a break from the opposite sex. It just isn't worth it. Too much of a soap opera so far.

And as for losing the battle to win the war. Well I already feel that I have won. My number one concern was not being able to be there with/for my son when he grows up. So even if my ex wins custody I will win the right to see him whenever I want no matter what country she goes to. I will follow wherever.

I am going to wait a week or two before telling her that this is going to court and that I have police reports about her threats and intentions. Once she realizes that she no longer has that power over me, I am sure she will fold. I now feel confident that I will win custody.

[paulmw]

If this goes to the Thai family courts over the child don't worry they are 100% fair not the same as the west.

Falangs get a good fair hearing

All they are intrested in is who can look after the child best,both parents have access not the same BS we have in the west.

Paul

[qualtrough]

OP, I sympathize with your plight and wish I had some good advice to offer. After reading about your problem and other's relationship problems here I now realize that my worst ex-wives and girlfriends weren't really that bad. Amateurs really.

[paulmw]

If this goes to the Thai family courts over the child don't worry they are 100% fair not the same as the west.

Falangs get a good fair hearing

All they are intrested in is who can look after the child best,both parents have access not the same BS we have in the west.

Paul

Don't know if any of this will help u bigdaddy.

CHILD CUSTODY: Under Thai law, the question of child custody is addressed in Book Five of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code under the general headings Termination of Marriage and Rights and Duties of Parent and Child. The relevant portions of the law follow in full:

Section 1520.

In case of divorce by mutual consent, the agreement for the exercise of parental power over each of the children shall be made in writing. In the absence of such agreement or (if) an agreement thereon cannot be reached, the matter shall be decided by the court.

In case of divorce by judgment of the court, the parental power belongs to the party in whose favor the judgment is given, unless it is decided by the court that the parental power shall belong to the other party, or that a third person shall be the guardian.

Section 1521.

If it appears that the guardian as provided in Section 1520 behaves himself or herself improperly or there is a change of circumstances after the appointment, the court has the power, after taking into consideration the happiness and interest of the child, to give an order appointing a new guardian.

Although the parental power belongs to one party, the other has the right to continue such personal relation with the child as may be reasonable according to the circumstances.

Section 1522.

In the case of divorce by mutual consent, an arrangement shall be made and contained in the agreement of divorce as to who, both of the spouses or either spouse, will contribute to the maintenance of the children and how much is the contribution. In case of divorce by judgment of the court or in case the agreement of divorce contains no provisions concerning the maintenance of the children, the court shall determine it.

Section 1566.

A child is subject to parental power as long as he is not sui juris. The parental power is exercised by the father or the mother in any of the following cases:

(1) The father or mother is dead;

(2) It is uncertain whether the father or the mother is living or dead;

(3) The father or the mother has been adjudged incompetent or quasi-incompetent;

(4) The father or the mother is placed in a hospital by reason of mental infirmity;

(5) The parental power has been granted to the father or the mother by an order of the court.

The parental power is exercised by the mother, when the child was born out of wedlock and has not yet been legitimated by the father according to Section 1547.

Section 1567.

A person exercising parental power has the right:

(1) to determine the child's place of residence

(2) to punish the child in a reasonable manner for disciplinary purposes;

(3) to require the child to do such work as may be reasonable to his ability and condition in life,

(4) to demand the return of the child from any person who unlawfully detains him.

As shown above, the question of child custody under Thai law is addressed mainly in the context of termination of marriage. It is therefore difficult to speculate about what kind of stance the Thai courts would take toward a custody decision made in the absence of the termination of a marriage, e.g., in the event of a legal separation.

As a matter of law, foreigners are treated on an equal basis with Thai citizens in matters relating to child custody. Thai law makes no distinction between the rights of the father and mother on issues of child custody.

ENFORCEMENT OF FOREIGN ORDERS: Foreign orders (including U.S. custody orders) are not enforced/enforceable in Thailand. American citizens who travel to Thailand place themselves under the jurisdiction of Thai courts. If a taking parent chooses to remain in Thailand with a child or leave a child behind in Thailand, the U.S. Embassy cannot force either the taking parent or the Thai Government to return the child to the United States. American citizens planning a trip to Thailand with dual national children should bear this in mind.

ACQUIRING THAI NATIONALITY: The Thai Nationality Act, Doc No. 2, B.E. 2535 (1992), states that any child born in Thailand of at least one Thai-citizen parent is a Thai citizen. If the child is born outside of Thailand, and has at least one Thai-citizen parent, the Thai parent can report the birth of the child to the nearest Thai Embassy or Consulate and the child will acquire Thai citizenship.

SPECIAL COURTS: Juvenile and Family Courts to hear custody cases can be found only in Bangkok and a few of the larger cities in Thailand

THAI PASSPORTS FOR CHILDREN: Parents wishing to obtain a Thai passport for their child must present a Birth Certificate (for children under14 years-old) or Thai identity card (for children between 15-20 years-old) of the child, the House Registration Certificate and the identity cards of mother and father. Both parents must accompany their minor child during the application process. In case one of the parents is unable to be present, he/she must sign a letter of consent, which must be brought to the office by the other parent and the minor.

[gburns57au]

Get the letter.....

By signing a letter of consent to take the child overseas she is giving you the custody of the child.