Whatever Happened To The All Around Motorcyle?

[jackcorbett]

In fact, in spite of much technological innovation during the past 30 to 40 years I think that in many ways the modern motorcyle has relapsed so contrary to being the superior machinery they could easily be, they are inferior. Okay.....start off taking a look at Honda's web site. Aside from dirt bikes, so called dual purpose bikes, etc there are several basic styles. First are the large cruisers headed by the large and very comfortable Gold Wings. Second are the cruiser style bikes, which we can basically categorize as Harley Davidson look a likes although their engine types might vary, some being four cylinder engines while others are V-twins. One typically sits low in the seat on this type of bike with a set of wide handlebars before you that are in my opinion placed two high to make the machine as easily controlled as they should be. I'd call this the lazy man's couch style machine as it encourages a laid back driving position that does not easily enforce the alertness I personally find to be necessary or desireable nor does it give one a good sense of overall driver control over his machine. The third type of machine is what I'd call the boy racer styled bike. Handle bars are narrow and the seat is positioned in such a way in relation to the machine that one has to crouch way over to drive the bike. They look fast and many of them are, but they appear to be much more at home on the race track than for everyday driving comfort.

Back when I got my first bike nearly all bikes had straight comfortable seats that allowed for two people to sit comfortably on the machine. My first bike was a Honda 350. Like nearly all Hondas it had this old style very practical seat. So did Triumphs and Nortons and practically everything else in those days. This bike was a lot of fun to drive, would do 90 miles an hour or so, and it had enough power to get the job done short of long distance touring. Then Honda came out with the 450 twin. It was basically a 100 mile an hour bike and it was considered Honda's big bike of that time. Those 450's seemed pretty powerful and would get up to 90 pretty dam_n fast. Now of course it would be considered to be very underpowered. Sure didn't feel like it back then however. Once again it had that long comfortable seat on which two people could ride very comfortably.

Closest thing I could find on Honda's web site is the 250 Rebel or Night Hawk. They get up to close to 80 but not quite. After that there is a considerable gap between models. Looking at the Suzuki web site I've found a 650 model. It's a twin so it's going to be narrow compared to the big fours. And it weighs just 370 pounds. So far so good. But take a look at that seat. Note it's the stepped up style similar to what you will see on a Honda 150 CBR. I pity the passenger having to sit on that.

I think we've allowed to be sold ourselves a bill of goods, a whole fleet of motorcyles offered by nearly all manufacturers that are overly large, overly complicated, overly heavy and just not suitable for all around driving and enjoyment the way many of the older machines were. In some ways that Suzuki might come close but that seat alone means no cigar. A Yamaha Nouvo's seat is far superior. And how about a machine that fills the gap between the larger more powerful than necessary machines between say 350 cc's and 500. And make even more 650 twins if one wants to go that large. And how about a bike for those riding in primarly urban environments that would be patterned off say my old BMW 650? It weighed just 408 pounds and those hoizontally opposed twin cylinders promoted maximum cooling while giving the bike a low center of gravity that made it a great handling bike in the city. Suppose if someone designed for Asian markets such as Thailand a 350 to 450 twin with the same horizontally opposed twin setup. The cylinders would be smaller so they would stick out less (and be less ugly). The manufacturer could make it belt driven rather than shaft driven like my old 650 had therefore saving weight. Such a bike might weigh in at between 300 and 350 pounds yet produce a lot more power than say a Honda Phantom while having better engine cooling and have better in town flickability due to the lower center of gravity of the horizontally opposed twin and meanwhile it would vibrate a great deal less. It could have narrower bars than the Cruiser types and it could impose an upright seating position where one sits high on the bike compared to Cruiser styles and feels like one has command of the machine while offering the best visibility over the road. The seat would of course be a long comfortable seat like the Nouvo has today and what the bikes of the past all seemed to offer.

Such a bike does't exist to my knowledge. So we are stuck with our racing style machines with their uncomfortable riding positions and the Lazy boy riding positions of the cruiser styled bikes and of course our heavy weight machines that although suitable for long fast cruises in the American desert while coddling the driver with fancy stereos, and other equipment, would be pretty cumbersome in the city. Now how did the public get sold on all this when it would seem that much better all around, more fun to drive motorcyles could have designed instead?

I

[JimsKnight]

Good post and one thats worth replying too.

I too find the over-powered / overengineered bikes versus under-powered bikes an annoyance here in LOS.

I find that in Thailand the options are so limited that either you put up with whats readily available: honda wave, sonic, Phantom, CBR etc or you have to import some speed machine costing $$$$$$ in price, taxes and fees.

I agree on the lazy/fat boy position on the cruisers. This one dink I know claims that he can see more of the road when sat back. I counter this with the fact that your reaction time sat back in the couch is a lot slower than a mean positioned rider crouched forward and ready.

As to the whys and wherefores, well my take is that maybe because they can make more money on the speed machines that are big and bad is why the middle ground is so sparse???

Now the only bike that has come close out here is the Honda Tiger which is 200 cc and has a reasonable looking position power and seat. I haven't ridden it but some expats have and they like it a lot.

[goldfish]

An all round motorbike? Yep. for samui I have. It's called a mio and does my shopping, been used as an ambulance and just as soon as I adapt the air filter it will be suitable for our damp roads

Anywhere with smooth tarmac and I'll be happy with an R1. Anything more powerful than a moped is just hard work here, there is no such thing as an all-rounder, it is simply a compromise

[ray23]

400 Dragstar works for me, city or distance no porblem but you probably wouldn't like it. You might just need to make the one you like. You know modify modify

[dave_boo]

You might want to take a look at the Kawasaki Versys:

[Richard-BKK]

Sad to say that the Versys is not completely made in Thailand, other then his Ninja and his naked Ninja ER-6n brother. We can expect to what I know any of this two models to be introduced soon to the Thai market.

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/Th...i-Made-Big-Bike

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php?st...-650R-Good-fast

Which both use the same engine, in basic the ER-6n is a European naked Ninja, the Europeans were always more easy to drop clothing....

[cm das]

How about the Honda CB 400 Super Four? Seems like it would match the OP's desires. They were still making them as of 2006, and you see lots of the older ones in Chiang Mai. As for me, when I grow out of my CBR150, I'd love to have a CBF250. Check this link for pics & specs. http://www.bikez.com/pictures/browse.php?b...96&pageno=2

[dave_boo]

That sadly seems to be a recurring mantra of riders here: It's not available in Thailand. Seems like you can get 150 cc and bigger (with the exception of Tigers and Platinum--and every Thai I've talked to has turned up their noses when asked about those marques). That's why I've thrown out the Versys, which I've only ever heard good things about. The CBF250 seems nice, but only putting ~3 HP more than a stock CBR150 with an extra 23 Kilos makes for not that big of a step up. Granted the bigger presence and assumed stability would be nice, but I need my horsepower!

[jackcorbett]

I'd like to add that a few nights ago, I drove my Nouvo back to the condo with a big Norwegian friend of mine behind me plus his Thai girlfriend who is taller and heavier than my girlfriend. Now that's a lot extra for a 230 pound 9 horsepower scooter type machine to cart around and I wouldn't do it for any distance but we got this job done and it's not the first time as I've had my girlfriend on the back with the same Norwegian buddy. Which all goes to show the versatitility of the Nouvo and what one can do with it thanks to its longer comfortable seat. Those stepped up seats on many bikes simply are not in the same league. Which again demonstrates that the motorcyle industry has gone downhill. And I do agree...the motorcycle companies make much bigger bucks selling us monstrous machinery we don't need and that won't even drive well in many conditions. A well designed 650 twin cylinder could most likely be sold for around $4000. If not, certainly a 400 could be and it could offer enough power to get the job done for most of us no matter where we were driving in the world. Instead the motorcycle companies sell us machinery that costs over $8000 which means bigger profits for them. And we suck up to them as they sell us image over what is really comfortable and practical and that drives well under a variety of conditions. As further evidence of what I am contending, consider the motorscooters that hit the U.S. Market. They still have those scimpy 10 inch diameter wheels and Americans are still buying this rubbish. They were dangerous and scittish over fifty years ago and they still are just as scittish and dangerous as ever.

[JimsKnight]

Agreed, the rinkadink wheels on scooters beggar belief, too small and if you hit bad bumps you're in for one fcked up ride! Sure some of these things can carry a spare tyre but most folks wouldn't know how to change one on a bike. Take a puncture on a bigger bike and you can ride out the flat tyre to the nearest bike mechanic. Take a puncture on a rinkadink scooter and you're not goin' very far...

[VocalNeal]

You might want to take a look at the Kawasaki Versys:

I have already asked Kawasaki and they have no current plans to import the Versys, although Red Baron say they will get you one for 450,000.

[jackcorbett]

In some ways that Kawasaki looks good. But again.........the seat is designed for style and not function. Get a long seat, like all bikes used to have. If you do not have a passenger you can crawl all over the seat to get comfortable---using the back pegs for instance, sitting towards the rear of the seat leaning into the wind for a change of position during a long cruise. Have a passenger, both can sit comfortably on these old style seats. But get one of these stepped up seats, the driiver must sit in a very restrained driving position that is just so large and that's it. Same same with his passenger. But it seems to me that out of all the Japanese motorcyle companies, Honda is the least innovative in many respects although it does make great products (eg....The Airblade might well be the best all around automatic going). Examples in point, Kawasaki has its Ninja motorcyles and I remember a good friend who had a 500 right after it came out. That bike was tremendous fun to drive, and even after twenty years, it's still available and will get up to 120 miles an hour out of 500 cc's, yet still possesses many all around virtues. And from what I've read Kawasaki has the Ninja in a 250 cc. model that is very fast for a 250, that outclasses the Honda offerings.

Still, I have yet to see a top all around model that possesses a great seating position with a versatile comfortable seat, that is easy to maintain, that is great in city traffic yet still capable of touring, that gives a great view of the road that instills a feeling of driver alertness and and "I'm in command of this bike" feeling instead of "This bike is taking me for a ride". Also four cylinders is overkill and adds too much weight and width to the bike. Closest I've ever come to this ideal is that BMW 650 horizontally opposed twin that weighed in at just 408 pounds with a shaft drive that required little maintanence. The balance of the machine was terrific for in the city driving and with the cylinders and much of the engine exposed to the air, cooling was excellent, the spark plugs could be popped out in a minute, you could adjust the engine's timing easily even if you are as hopeless a mechanic as I am. Electronics were so simple there was little to go wrong. There was good access to the battery for replacement or recharging it. There was little to go wrong with the bike so you felt confident about driving it hundreds of miles from home and it felt so small and controllable at low speeds in the city. That bike was a stupendous piece of machinery.

[dave_boo]

jackcorbet;

I'm sorry, but I think you're underestimating how comfortable that bike is. From what I've read, that seat is VERY comfortable, and just looking at the width and thickness seems to confirm it. The pegs are very forward set compared to the Versys' close cousin, the Ninja 650 (which it shares almost all major components), which is a major plus for long distance riding.

I don't mean to be disrepectful, but I think nostalgia is playing a big part in coloring your comparisons. The reason you used to have to sit back and lean into the wind is that those old bikes didn't have any wind protection. Now a days, using wind tunnels and CFD, engineers have managed to get a fairly stable pocket of air for the riders. I realise this doesn't help if you're like me (i.e. similar to a chipmunk on acid) and can't sit in a single position for very long, but it is quite a bit less tiring than battling the wind.

Of course, I could be all wrong, since I didn't start riding till '95, but I'd accept that!

[PeaceBlondie]

The OP's complaints were common in the USA by the middle 80's. No standard style bikes. As noted, there just weren't more than an odd couple of Japanese bikes with flat seats, standard seating position, etc. I really enjoyed my Suzuki GS500E twin (2001 newer style; it's been updated since), my 1982 Yamaha twins, both 400 Seca and 550 Vision, my 1982 Suzuki GS850G. That four-cylinder 850 was my preference to a BMW R800, at a third the price in 1988, new.

I don't worry about the passenger, but it would be nice to sit further back on the CBR150. The Thai mass market probably isn't ready for bigger Japanese bikes, even a 250. My dream is a Suzuki SV256 twin with 32 horsepower and a full power and torque band.

[mikethevigoman]

In fact, in spite of much technological innovation during the past 30 to 40 years I think that in many ways the modern motorcyle has relapsed so contrary to being the superior machinery they could easily be, they are inferior. Okay.....start off taking a look at Honda's web site. Aside from dirt bikes, so called dual purpose bikes, etc there are several basic styles. First are the large cruisers headed by the large and very comfortable Gold Wings. Second are the cruiser style bikes, which we can basically categorize as Harley Davidson look a likes although their engine types might vary, some being four cylinder engines while others are V-twins. One typically sits low in the seat on this type of bike with a set of wide handlebars before you that are in my opinion placed two high to make the machine as easily controlled as they should be. I'd call this the lazy man's couch style machine as it encourages a laid back driving position that does not easily enforce the alertness I personally find to be necessary or desireable nor does it give one a good sense of overall driver control over his machine. The third type of machine is what I'd call the boy racer styled bike. Handle bars are narrow and the seat is positioned in such a way in relation to the machine that one has to crouch way over to drive the bike. They look fast and many of them are, but they appear to be much more at home on the race track than for everyday driving comfort.

Back when I got my first bike nearly all bikes had straight comfortable seats that allowed for two people to sit comfortably on the machine. My first bike was a Honda 350. Like nearly all Hondas it had this old style very practical seat. So did Triumphs and Nortons and practically everything else in those days. This bike was a lot of fun to drive, would do 90 miles an hour or so, and it had enough power to get the job done short of long distance touring. Then Honda came out with the 450 twin. It was basically a 100 mile an hour bike and it was considered Honda's big bike of that time. Those 450's seemed pretty powerful and would get up to 90 pretty dam_n fast. Now of course it would be considered to be very underpowered. Sure didn't feel like it back then however. Once again it had that long comfortable seat on which two people could ride very comfortably.

Closest thing I could find on Honda's web site is the 250 Rebel or Night Hawk. They get up to close to 80 but not quite. After that there is a considerable gap between models. Looking at the Suzuki web site I've found a 650 model. It's a twin so it's going to be narrow compared to the big fours. And it weighs just 370 pounds. So far so good. But take a look at that seat. Note it's the stepped up style similar to what you will see on a Honda 150 CBR. I pity the passenger having to sit on that.

I think we've allowed to be sold ourselves a bill of goods, a whole fleet of motorcyles offered by nearly all manufacturers that are overly large, overly complicated, overly heavy and just not suitable for all around driving and enjoyment the way many of the older machines were. In some ways that Suzuki might come close but that seat alone means no cigar. A Yamaha Nouvo's seat is far superior. And how about a machine that fills the gap between the larger more powerful than necessary machines between say 350 cc's and 500. And make even more 650 twins if one wants to go that large. And how about a bike for those riding in primarly urban environments that would be patterned off say my old BMW 650? It weighed just 408 pounds and those hoizontally opposed twin cylinders promoted maximum cooling while giving the bike a low center of gravity that made it a great handling bike in the city. Suppose if someone designed for Asian markets such as Thailand a 350 to 450 twin with the same horizontally opposed twin setup. The cylinders would be smaller so they would stick out less (and be less ugly). The manufacturer could make it belt driven rather than shaft driven like my old 650 had therefore saving weight. Such a bike might weigh in at between 300 and 350 pounds yet produce a lot more power than say a Honda Phantom while having better engine cooling and have better in town flickability due to the lower center of gravity of the horizontally opposed twin and meanwhile it would vibrate a great deal less. It could have narrower bars than the Cruiser types and it could impose an upright seating position where one sits high on the bike compared to Cruiser styles and feels like one has command of the machine while offering the best visibility over the road. The seat would of course be a long comfortable seat like the Nouvo has today and what the bikes of the past all seemed to offer.

Such a bike does't exist to my knowledge. So we are stuck with our racing style machines with their uncomfortable riding positions and the Lazy boy riding positions of the cruiser styled bikes and of course our heavy weight machines that although suitable for long fast cruises in the American desert while coddling the driver with fancy stereos, and other equipment, would be pretty cumbersome in the city. Now how did the public get sold on all this when it would seem that much better all around, more fun to drive motorcyles could have designed instead?

I

Heres the perfect bike for se asia,.enough go, enough suspension travel,and will go pretty well anywhere.

[tubber]

Try a Yamaha XJR 400, 1200 or 1300 plenty in Thailand with a book at reasonable prices. I have an 1995 XJR 1200, simple engines air-cooled 4 cylinder, 16 valve and carburated so if it starts playing up you can fix it your self and simple to maintain. These engines are bullet proof and have been around since the 1980's as FJ1100 and FJ 1200. Big pillion seat and comfortable to cruise at 90mph (with a small bikini fairing fitted) and still do 140mph if you want.

[jackcorbett]

jackcorbet;

I'm sorry, but I think you're underestimating how comfortable that bike is. From what I've read, that seat is VERY comfortable, and just looking at the width and thickness seems to confirm it. The pegs are very forward set compared to the Versys' close cousin, the Ninja 650 (which it shares almost all major components), which is a major plus for long distance riding.

I don't mean to be disrepectful, but I think nostalgia is playing a big part in coloring your comparisons. The reason you used to have to sit back and lean into the wind is that those old bikes didn't have any wind protection. Now a days, using wind tunnels and CFD, engineers have managed to get a fairly stable pocket of air for the riders. I realise this doesn't help if you're like me (i.e. similar to a chipmunk on acid) and can't sit in a single position for very long, but it is quite a bit less tiring than battling the wind.

Of course, I could be all wrong, since I didn't start riding till '95, but I'd accept that!

Here is my last large bike that I had back in the U.S. And here is the first BMW I owned, the R-65.

In fact, I had the same blue coloras the K-100 RS in the picture but my R-65 was black. My pulse still quickens when I think of the K-100 RS I owned. It's successors now develop something like 150 horsepower whereas mine had 90. Still, it would do zero to 165 kilometers in just 7 seconds. Drove to Chicago once with my wife (then) on the back, a trip that normally would take over four hours but we did it in 2.5 hours. But the electronics were much more complicated than the R-65's and much more trouble prone. There was always a high speed vibration tingle in the handlebars so I often wanted to get off for five minutes every hour or so. Not so with the R-65. It was dead smooth up to 58 miles an hour and then the vibration would set in but at 70 miles an hour and above the bike was smooth as glass.

Note the fairing on the K-100 RS. It did a lot to provide wind protection. With the R-65 I had a Qucksilver fairing put on, so believe me, I do understand what you are getting at as to the wind protection. What I am talking about is taking that little 650 R-65 500 miles to Green Bay Wisconsin from St. Louis and beyond in one day with a girl on the back. And I never got tired on that bike. But without the girl I'd want to stretch out and try different positions because I suppose I was like that chipmunk you are alluding to. I could do it on that seat even though it's not perfectly flat across.

Not how low the cylinders are. The Honda's are nice but they are vertical twins. If I were compare that BMW 650 to my old Honda 450....that 450 had plenty of power. It was rated at 45 versus the 36 I had on the 350 Honda that immediately preceded it. The R-65 had just five more horsepower.......50 so it felt powerwise about the same as the 450 Honda. But due to its low weight of just 408 pounds and the low center of mass of its engine, the bike actually felt smaller than the 450 Honda and it handled better in the city. It might be ugly (compared to the K-100 RS which at the time--1985--I felt was the most gorgeous bike ever conceived) but engineering wise I still feel it was way ahead of its time. And whereas the much larger (it weighed 504 pounds) K-100 RS was a speeding bullet that felt right in its element at 100 miles per hour and didn't even handle right until you got it past 80 miles an hour, the R-65 is the all arounder I am talking about, capable of negotiating busy city traffic with ease while also capable of comfortably handling hundreds of miles of interstate driving in one day. And look how simple it looks with nearly everything exposed so you can easily work on the machine. And you never even had to even tighten a chain on it. Lastly it had a 5.8 gallon fuel tank on it so you could cruise well over 200 miles without even having to think about filling up. But I think the bike's main problem is that in the early 1980's it sold for just $3300 while the larger models were selling at $6000 or so, which meant BMW wasn't making all that much money on it, but I could cruise right with the 1000 cc. horizontally opposed twin models and my bike was a far better handling machine

[dutchrdam]

This is my beauty and I think it’s the best motorbike in the world, the van Veen Wankel 1000.

Fast, with a top from around 280km/hour. Reliable, build in 1977 and with more then 400.000 km on the counter. Comfortable, big duo sit buddy, ABS break system, fuel injection and trough the 2 disk 1000 cc CoMotor wankel engine a width traction and rotation area. Great engine performance like 172 Hp at 6.200 rpm and a torque from 18.9 mkg at 3.000 rpm. Great speed like from 0-100 2.6 seconds and from 0-200 9.8 seconds Unique, only 34 hand build by in Duderstadt Germany.

In that time also Suzuki, Norton, MZ,NSU, Hercules and Mazda did build motorbikes with a wankel engine. Most did use the in Germany build Audi/NSU and later Citroen/CoMotor or the in Japan build Mazda motor. As I am well also a motorbike from the USSR, the Dnepr, did experiment with wankel engines.

Regards

[Beardog]

Jackcorbett- All that talk of Green Bay where I grew up Makes me wish I was on a ride(in the summer preferably) On my way to Speed Queens soul rib Bbq The best ribs in the world!!! I doubt if there around

The Kawasaki Versys is one Sweeet looking bike

Vigo Mike(How you doin?) that Ktm is sleek is that one of your rides, looks like a monster!!! I like it.

Dutchdram If I had a clue they had a bike with a Wankel engine in it I would have thrown down some money on it in a heartbeat.I used to compete with RX7's & the rotary engine that Wankel came up with is a Shredder! I can just imagine the instantaneous speed it cranked out. that had to be expensive as hel_l, just spotted how few they made.

Beardog

[mikethevigoman]

Good post and one thats worth replying too.

I too find the over-powered / overengineered bikes versus under-powered bikes an annoyance here in LOS.

I find that in Thailand the options are so limited that either you put up with whats readily available: honda wave, sonic, Phantom, CBR etc or you have to import some speed machine costing $$$ in price, taxes and fees.

I agree on the lazy/fat boy position on the cruisers. This one dink I know claims that he can see more of the road when sat back. I counter this with the fact that your reaction time sat back in the couch is a lot slower than a mean positioned rider crouched forward and ready.

As to the whys and wherefores, well my take is that maybe because they can make more money on the speed machines that are big and bad is why the middle ground is so sparse???

Now the only bike that has come close out here is the Honda Tiger which is 200 cc and has a reasonable looking position power and seat. I haven't ridden it but some expats have and they like it a lot.

A little bit off topic i know ,but i got this off an american st1300 forum, its a comment about a tank bag !"

I just bought a Cortech 21 Liter Magnetic Tank Bag, for when I am Traveling and I like it a lot. When I'm just doing short trips I use a Cortech Mini Magnetic. When you get Old, you can't see the Maps when they are Folded up real Small. The 21 Liter will hold a Thermos, Water Bag with Bite Hose, Binoculars, Camera and Accessories, MP3 Player, Gloves, 40 Cal. with Spare Clips, Knife, Flashlight, Spare Socks, Sunglasses and has room for some Twinkies Too. Just the ticket for a day at the Coast, along with all that you can pack in the Panniers and Travel Trunk. __________________

[mikethevigoman]

Jackcorbett- All that talk of Green Bay where I grew up Makes me wish I was on a ride(in the summer preferably) On my way to Speed Queens soul rib Bbq The best ribs in the world!!! I doubt if there around

The Kawasaki Versys is one Sweeet looking bike

Vigo Mike(How you doin?) that Ktm is sleek is that one of your rides, looks like a monster!!! I like it.

Dutchdram If I had a clue they had a bike with a Wankel engine in it I would have thrown down some money on it in a heartbeat.I used to compete with RX7's & the rotary engine that Wankel came up with is a Shredder! I can just imagine the instantaneous speed it cranked out. that had to be expensive as hel_l, just spotted how few they made.

Beardog

Hi BD, no i wish it was, that is EXACTLY what i would do to one if i had one here.i have had hundreds of bikes over the 40 years ( jeez is it really that long ! ) i have been riding, one bike im sure you are generally talking about that i have owned came to mind, it was a 1980 suzuki GS850, it won bike of the year in north america,.so smoooooth, it was shaft drive ,but you hardly noticed,and so unlike a couple of moto guzzis i had that would have you doing some sort of s american dance when you blipped the throttle when at lights !

[mikethevigoman]

The OP's complaints were common in the USA by the middle 80's. No standard style bikes. As noted, there just weren't more than an odd couple of Japanese bikes with flat seats, standard seating position, etc. I really enjoyed my Suzuki GS500E twin (2001 newer style; it's been updated since), my 1982 Yamaha twins, both 400 Seca and 550 Vision, my 1982 Suzuki GS850G. That four-cylinder 850 was my preference to a BMW R800, at a third the price in 1988, new.

I don't worry about the passenger, but it would be nice to sit further back on the CBR150. The Thai mass market probably isn't ready for bigger Japanese bikes, even a 250. My dream is a Suzuki SV256 twin with 32 horsepower and a full power and torque band.

I lived in canada in 80 and had a gs850g, ,i imported it to the uk with 4k on it when i left canada,that was a superb bike,i sold it eventually to a friend of mine that had it for 5 years ,then he sold it to a COURIER !

[chavy]

This is my beauty and I think it's the best motorbike in the world, the van Veen Wankel 1000.

Fast, with a top from around 280km/hour. Reliable, build in 1977 and with more then 400.000 km on the counter. Comfortable, big duo sit buddy, ABS break system, fuel injection and trough the 2 disk 1000 cc CoMotor wankel engine a width traction and rotation area. Great engine performance like 172 Hp at 6.200 rpm and a torque from 18.9 mkg at 3.000 rpm. Great speed like from 0-100 2.6 seconds and from 0-200 9.8 seconds Unique, only 34 hand build by in Duderstadt Germany.

In that time also Suzuki, Norton, MZ,NSU, Hercules and Mazda did build motorbikes with a wankel engine. Most did use the in Germany build Audi/NSU and later Citroen/CoMotor or the in Japan build Mazda motor. As I am well also a motorbike from the USSR, the Dnepr, did experiment with wankel engines.

Regards

Slightly different than the Platinum you just bought Dutchdram ??

[PeaceBlondie]

I lucked out on the 1982 Suzuki GS850G. The Japanese manufacturers built entirely too many bikes then, and imported an extra half million to the States, where they stayed in crates and showrooms for many years, unsold. In 1988, six years later, I bought the 850 with new warranty for $1,850. The only thing comparable on the 1988 market then were the Kawasaki 900 sport touring bike and BMW R100RT, both for sale at $9000 or so, and not one bit better. Long seat, shaft drive that never misbehaved, top speed somewhere over 125 miles per hour, and I equipped it with a windscreen (Plexifairing), big tail trunk, portable panniers (we call them saddlebags in Texas ). Toured with it and did several 650 mile days, one after the other.

I think standard/normal bikes are still for sale in the general market. What about all those incredibly overpriced BMW's, Honda Pan European, even the Honda VFR800, several Triumphs? But they don't sell in big volume.

[mikethevigoman]

This is my beauty and I think it's the best motorbike in the world, the van Veen Wankel 1000.

Fast, with a top from around 280km/hour. Reliable, build in 1977 and with more then 400.000 km on the counter. Comfortable, big duo sit buddy, ABS break system, fuel injection and trough the 2 disk 1000 cc CoMotor wankel engine a width traction and rotation area. Great engine performance like 172 Hp at 6.200 rpm and a torque from 18.9 mkg at 3.000 rpm. Great speed like from 0-100 2.6 seconds and from 0-200 9.8 seconds Unique, only 34 hand build by in Duderstadt Germany.

In that time also Suzuki, Norton, MZ,NSU, Hercules and Mazda did build motorbikes with a wankel engine. Most did use the in Germany build Audi/NSU and later Citroen/CoMotor or the in Japan build Mazda motor. As I am well also a motorbike from the USSR, the Dnepr, did experiment with wankel engines.

Regards

Slightly different than the Platinum you just bought Dutchdram ??

BRODDY ELL ! CHALK AND CHEESE

[jackcorbett]

BMW's do come with a high price tag. However, my 650 brand new was substantially less than the 1000 cc. horizontally opposed twin alternatives from BMW so it was not that much more than Japanese motorcyles I could have gotten instead. As for the K-100 RS, mine was a 1985 model. Back then they were selling for around $7000 brand new. I got mine for around $5000, it had around 5000 miles on the odometer and still a year and a half left on the warranty. As I mentioned, at the time it was very fast,and in the looks department to my eyes it was the dream bike. A couple of Japanese manufacturers soon came out with bikes having over 100 horsepower so these were faster, but what separated the K-100 RS from the Japanese models at the time was that driving the Japanese bikes I tried gave me the feeling of their having too much power for the suspension and overall design of the bike so that if you gave them too much throttle unless you were a really excellent driver the machine would get away from you in a hurry. Once perched on that K-100 RS the bike seemed small for its weight and displacement and when you really poured the coals to the machine it always remained perfectly composed as it got up to very high speeds in a hurry, unobtrusively with no dramatics. Except for the blurring of the scenery around you 100 miles an hour felt like 60 on lesser machines. Chief drawbacks to the otherwise excellent machine were that ever present high speed tingle in the handlebars and electronics that were more complicated than most other bikes had at this time and more trouble prone. Also at low speeds the bike felt top heavy and the design of the bike which imposed a crouched down riding position that did not afford the kind of erect riding position that is best for around town while its narrow handlebars did not offer the quick and easy flickability of say the 650 I had owned beforehand. But the bike was not designed for this. It was a rocket that could be easily and comfortably controlled at insane speeds. I suppose its being so good at that required its being very limited in low speed high traffic conditions.

[dutchrdam]

This is my beauty and I think it's the best motorbike in the world, the van Veen Wankel 1000.

Fast, with a top from around 280km/hour. Reliable, build in 1977 and with more then 400.000 km on the counter. Comfortable, big duo sit buddy, ABS break system, fuel injection and trough the 2 disk 1000 cc CoMotor wankel engine a width traction and rotation area. Great engine performance like 172 Hp at 6.200 rpm and a torque from 18.9 mkg at 3.000 rpm. Great speed like from 0-100 2.6 seconds and from 0-200 9.8 seconds Unique, only 34 hand build by in Duderstadt Germany.

In that time also Suzuki, Norton, MZ,NSU, Hercules and Mazda did build motorbikes with a wankel engine. Most did use the in Germany build Audi/NSU and later Citroen/CoMotor or the in Japan build Mazda motor. As I am well also a motorbike from the USSR, the Dnepr, did experiment with wankel engines.

Regards

Slightly different than the Platinum you just bought Dutchdram ??

about 1.450.000 bath different but with the same smile on my face of enjoy a motorbike.

[chavy]

This is my beauty and I think it's the best motorbike in the world, the van Veen Wankel 1000.

Fast, with a top from around 280km/hour. Reliable, build in 1977 and with more then 400.000 km on the counter. Comfortable, big duo sit buddy, ABS break system, fuel injection and trough the 2 disk 1000 cc CoMotor wankel engine a width traction and rotation area. Great engine performance like 172 Hp at 6.200 rpm and a torque from 18.9 mkg at 3.000 rpm. Great speed like from 0-100 2.6 seconds and from 0-200 9.8 seconds Unique, only 34 hand build by in Duderstadt Germany.

In that time also Suzuki, Norton, MZ,NSU, Hercules and Mazda did build motorbikes with a wankel engine. Most did use the in Germany build Audi/NSU and later Citroen/CoMotor or the in Japan build Mazda motor. As I am well also a motorbike from the USSR, the Dnepr, did experiment with wankel engines.

Regards

Slightly different than the Platinum you just bought Dutchdram ??

about 1.450.000 bath different but with the same smile on my face of enjoy a motorbike.

Great stuff mate as long as your happy with what you have then ride on buddy

[jackcorbett]

BMW review I just found a couple of reviews on this bike, which is close to my concept of the all around bike. Weighs just 387 pounds, it has one cylinder and it's narrow as well as being light. Has an upright riding position but several configuratons of seating positions can be purchased depending on the rider's height. Gas tank is beneath the seat giving the bike a low center of gravity. Although having just one cylinder this bike's new technolgoy according to one rider, makes it as smooth as a couple of four cylinder bikes he's owned in the past.

In another review this is what one new owner concluded: "As a conclusion, this bike is awesome! It is really a bike for everything. Quick, nimble, versatile, rugged, efficient, and sharp. My brother and I both bought one and are talking about getting rid of our other bikes, and R1200 C, and an R100 GSPD. This bike offers big-bang for the bucks. An excellent warranty and legendary name round out the reasons to get one. I was very pleasantly surprised by this machine, after having to cancel orders for two R1200 GSA's my brother and I are both happy that we ended up with smaller, more manageable rides. Till we meet on the road, figuratively speaking, safe riding and happy trails!

In other words, smaller is better. And these guys were getting 60 miles per gallon while cruising easily at 80 miles per hour or even better. A low slung cruiser style bike it's not, and neither is it a crouched down crotch rocket with 170 horsepower with a four cylinder engine that's as wide as a football field. What would you guys rather drive around in Pattaya, the football field on wheels like you can rent all up and down Beach Road or something like this that you can still drive throughout the entire country? It's too bad I can't get one of these at U.S. pricing and have the dealer network I'd have in the U.S.

[stag4]

How about the Honda CB 400 Super Four? Seems like it would match the OP's desires. They were still making them as of 2006, and you see lots of the older ones in Chiang Mai. As for me, when I grow out of my CBR150, I'd love to have a CBF250. Check this link for pics & specs. http://www.bikez.com/pictures/browse.php?b...96&pageno=2

Is the Honda CBF 250 available for sale in Thailand?

Looks an ideal allrounder for city or country riding.