Dangerous Vigo

[snowflake]

I have had my Vigo for a few years now, bought it new in 2005. I recently raised it and put fatter rims and tires on it. I thought the handling became better after that little mod, sure a few kph slower but not much. Fuel consumption is about the same.

Since the Swedish magazine went out with it's mortally dangerous Vigo segment I have looked into what was wrong.

Toyota Norway stopped all the sales of that model. Toyota claimed it was the special wheels (how thick they were) that caused the almost accident. They also said that with normal wheels on the Vigo this will not happen...

I have now had the chance to test this with some excited driving... Not same speeds at the test driver, but some evasive manouvers that I would not recomend. (Kid running out in the road, anything else I run over). My Vigo was glued to the road and it did not even think about pulling a motorbike trick on me... Very happy with it..

Could anyone now please explain to me why more grip will cause the car to go up on two wheels? when less grip has a lower chance of this stunt? It might be a very obvious answer but I have not got a clue... Please can anyone help me?

I did once in my Triton pull out severly but that was at about 150 kph and it was stuck on the road... I was lucky I guess. I can not get the car up on two wheels. (I do not want to be on two wheels but I would like to know where the limit is and how far one can take it...

Ps. my Vigo uses less fuel than my Yaris.

[madjbs]

Less grip=more sliding. If there is more grip then the wheels stay put but the rest of the car wants to move still, If there is too much grip eventually the car will start to tip over.

[Petch01]

Snowflake, it's simple physics.

Try this experiment yourself. Take an object, for example a glass. Put it in front of you on a table with a smooth surface. At half the height of the glass, push with one finger the glass away from you. It will slide over the surface. Now, do the same but put something, such as a rubber band under your glass or use a rough surface. When you push now, you'll will see that the glass wants to tumble.

The first situation; no friction > sliding. The second situation; friction > forces must go somewhere so tipping over.

Petch01

[Tatler]

I have seen the way you drive and i must agree that the Vigo that you drive is dangerous

[Hssl]

Was it the 2wd or 4wd models that are prone to tipping?

My 2wd 3L G spec performs great IMHO

But i do remember ITS A PICK UP!

[dominique355]

Snowflake, it's simple physics.

Try this experiment yourself. Take an object, for example a glass. Put it in front of you on a table with a smooth surface. At half the height of the glass, push with one finger the glass away from you. It will slide over the surface. Now, do the same but put something, such as a rubber band under your glass or use a rough surface. When you push now, you'll will see that the glass wants to tumble.

The first situation; no friction > sliding. The second situation; friction > forces must go somewhere so tipping over.

Petch01

Actually the physics is not that simple, because many variables come into the equation, such as difference in weight and grip on front and rear, height of center of gravity (the lower the better), steering angle of the front wheels, speed, damping rate etc.

I don't think that tyres with higher grip are more likely to make the car to roll over, unless the center of gravity is extremely high. Sooner or later every tyre will loose gripe and slide. If the tyres on the front loose grip first, that's called understeer. If those in the back loose grip first, that's oversteer and if both loose grip at the same time, that's called neutral. A roll-over could happen with a car with a high center of gravity and heavy understeer (see the Swedish Elk tests for Benz A170 and Vigo).

Mercedes widened the track of both the A-Class and the Smart models and installed ESP. Moreover the suspension was made stiffer and wider tyres were fitted. Toyota seems unwilling to deal with the problem. But then again, the Vigo is such an outdated concept, I wonder how it could possibly be solved.

[Plus]

What do you mean outdated? The design is fairly new, just a few years old.

If you mean the whole "shassis on frame" concept than you are right.

[Jareddiving]

Was it the 2wd or 4wd models that are prone to tipping?

My 2wd 3L G spec performs great IMHO

But i do remember ITS A PICK UP!

Is this the lower model?

[snowflake]

Thanks guys, will test it out, but I think I will do it in my Yaris first, less likely to roll over and if I do, well 1st class insurance in this country is great.

The Vigo I have is a slightly modified 2WD so Its not as tall as a normal 4WD, and I do think that it handles better, dont know why but just feels like it.

The glass thingy sounds ok and I will test it tomorrow.

TATLER, well I have yet to smash any of my cars, neither tipping over... I hate driving like that Algerian Taxi across from you... Fancy a go in the Vigo to see if we can tip it over???

I dear you...

PS, less rubber = less friction, same as my GF told me

more rubber = more friction, same as my doctor told me

Who do you listen to?

Edited November 21, 2007 by snowflake

[Petch01]

PS, less rubber = less friction, same as my GF told me

more rubber = more friction, same as my doctor told me

Who do you listen to?

Snowflake,

less rubber makes you slide easy, same as my doctor told me

more rubber gives more friction and gives more feeling of grip, same as my GF told me

By the way, Snowflake,

dominique355 is right. It isn't really that simple. I like to conclude to say:

Drivers slide in a ditch or drivers roll-over in a ditch in case of reckless driving.

Petch01

Edited November 21, 2007 by Petch01

[snowflake]

To keep up with Thai drivers I will try this in town where there are no ditches, no seriously, I just want to test this one thing...

Doesn't hurt to do some research first...

Thanks for all the help... I will wait for a rainy day so I will slide more... then I will try it on the dry road...

Maybe I should try it in school (after the kids go home) Or infront of the local supermarket, after closing time... Or maybe in the moobaan so it is easy to carry me home after I flip the Vigo, or its easy to go home and change trousers after I shit myself :-)

[initiala4]

keep in mind that your car is also a raised car not a car sits low towards the ground.