Spearfishing?

[Etrigan]

Yesterday I dove the Hardeep in Samaesan. At the stern was a large, but dead, parrotfish. I have seen this large creature for several years as have many other regular divers. Still had colouration so hadn't been dead long. When I came up, the boat captain told me that on the Saturday, a Japanese operator took down divers with spear guns. He claims they killed it.

So what can we do?

[CHdiver]

It's not ilegal AFAIK, I don't know about a Japanese Operatior, but Seaduction, a Pattaya Diveshop is promoting that "Sport". In my opinion a Dive Shop to avoid. PADI promoting Project AWARE should stop giving licences to Diveshops (Seaduction is a PADI Center) offering Spearfishing. Maybe then this would stop.

[stevenl]

The problem is spearfishing is very much accepted in the USA, so I doubt (and regret) that PADI will take action.

In general though, in my experience it is not the Japanese that do spearfishing, but much more the Thais. Plus I doubt they brought the gun with them, so my suspicions would be aimed first at Thais, they have been providing the gun for a minimum, and were probably the ones spearfishing.

[smartecosse]

PADI have an underwater hunter specialty so I doubt they will do much against a centre that promotes it

do you eat fish at restaurants?

[Etrigan]

Smarts - That's not the issue mate and you know it. The fish was left for dead, no attempt to feed people. Plus, I'm pretty sure that any kind of fishing that close to the coast is illegal.

Plus spearfishing is only considered a sport with skin diving. Scuba is cheating.

The problem will escalate now to the point where there just won't be any fish left. Man, if fish aren't safe in a reef, where else is there? This will end like the giant potato groupers of south west pinnacle off Koh Tao. Magnificent creatures, over 2 metres long, and diver friendly. Now they adorn some poxy restaurant wall in Samui!

Edited December 7, 2007 by Etrigan

[H2oDunc]

Etrigan the issue is whether you agree or not.Is spear fishing bad but fishing with a rod OK? What about the damage drift nets do. Where do you draw the line. Spearfishing is only illegal in a marine park. How close to shore is irrelevant. I would much prefer somebody to selectively take fish than just take anything that either ends up on his hook or in his net. Here on Tao Im diving with a friend at his dive shop. Maybe once a fortnight he sends out the boat with just staff and friends. Some Thai friends also go along to spearfish. They often fish at southwest and the big grouper is still there. The last time we went to Chumphon pinnacle. An instructor from one of the dive schools came to the surface ranting and raving at me as I was on deck. The way I see it is this is their country and this is their sea, we are guests here remember. It is also legal. As much as you may not like it just what are you going to do? As I said we are guests here and as much as we would like to change a lot of things here its not or job to do so. Ask yourself just who does the most damage to the dive sites around Thailand. A couple of spearfishermen or Hundreds of instructors with students with little or no bouyancy smashing the coral to bits.

Edited December 7, 2007 by H2oDunc

[Etrigan]

Cheers H2O.

I just want to point out mate, that we are on about two different sets of groupers here. The ones I mean were killed in 1999. I haven't seen any since , and I dive Tao twice a year.

It's just sad to see a familiar wild creature, known to divers for many years, just dead on the seabed. For what? It's just such a shame and a waste.

Imagine the scenario if Trevor had been killed in that way. I'm pretty sure you know who Trevor was.

Anyway, reef clean tomorrow off Rayong - so we WILL be busy!

[stevenl]

It is also legal.

But possession of a speargun is illegal.

[uptou]

Imagine the scenario if Trevor had been killed in that way. I'm pretty sure you know who Trevor was.

Anyway, reef clean tomorrow off Rayong - so we WILL be busy!

Is that trev the trigger fish? I remember him well when i did my open water.Gave a few hits to my tank,but thankfully backed off when i pointed the fins at him.

Also remember those fantastic,enormous potato groupers whilst snorkeling off of tioman island,malaysia.

[limbos]

Can somebody clarify that spear fishing is legal in Thailand. H2O points out that it's only illegal in a Marine Park.

I really would like to find out since I keep getting mixed reports. AFAIK it is illegal............ To the best of my knowledge, a person on Bophud, Samui, was deported a few years ago, apparently for being caught spearfishing.

I see Thai boat staff use spearguns on rare occasions (whilst using scuba!).

Another one than, is having a speargun really illegal? When Tesco Lotus just opened on Koh Samui, there was for a short while a shop selling spear guns.

[Quero]

Can somebody clarify that spear fishing is legal in Thailand. H2O points out that it's only illegal in a Marine Park.

I really would like to find out since I keep getting mixed reports. AFAIK it is illegal............ To the best of my knowledge, a person on Bophud, Samui, was deported a few years ago, apparently for being caught spearfishing.

I see Thai boat staff use spearguns on rare occasions (whilst using scuba!).

Another one than, is having a speargun really illegal? When Tesco Lotus just opened on Koh Samui, there was for a short while a shop selling spear guns.

What is reportedly illegal is using spear guns in designated park areas and near beaches.

There is, in fact, at least one dive centre in Pattaya that specializes in spearing, as well as more than one that actively support it by offering trips for freedivers and for divers on scuba. Further, I believe it is legal not only to possess spear guns, but also to import and to buy them (one of these Pattaya ops is a dealer). These shops also advertise the Underwater Hunter and Collector specialty for THB 8,000 (not PADI but a different agency).

I personally find the whole thing repugnant. The fact that many people eat what they catch while fishing for fun (handline, rod, spear, whatever) doesn't make it any less a blood sport, in my view.

[H2oDunc]

If possesion of a spear gun is illegal how come you can go into central in BKK and buy one. Having asked the Thai guys who spearfish, they tell me it is quite legal and the police chief from Surat is a regular fisherman. As to leaving the fish on the bottom. Sometimes the fish is not cleanly killed and pulls free of the spear. It then swims off to die later. Spearfishing with scuba is also not considered sporting. I've only ever done it without as I was doing it as a sport. To the Thais who do it its not sport but a way of getting food and would not dream of doing it without scuba.Though how they dont get bent amazes me. The last time at Cumphon the Thais went in first and spent all their time at 30 odd metres and stayed down for about an hour returning to the surface without a safety stop. Also towing round several bleeding fish with hungry sharks is for me asking for trouble.

[smartecosse]

i dont agree with spearfihing on scuba but there is far more harm done to the marine life by other means than spearfishing

[Chloe82]

Spear fishing is not illegal in Thailand, my friend is selling a speargun in Bangkok by the way if anyone is interested PM me, its a French made Beuchat Champion-du-Monde and is available with spear and real with line for B1,500.

[Bowmouth]

Yesterday I dove the Hardeep in Samaesan. At the stern was a large, but dead, parrotfish. I have seen this large creature for several years as have many other regular divers. Still had colouration so hadn't been dead long. When I came up, the boat captain told me that on the Saturday, a Japanese operator took down divers with spear guns. He claims they killed it.

It's not all that clear to me by reading this story where the confirmation and actual proof is that the parrotfish was indeed killed by spearfishing and not by something else. Was there a visible penetration wound in the fish?

Believe it or not but fish do also die of illness, eating the wrong thing or just because of old age.

[Apecks]

It's not ilegal AFAIK, I don't know about a Japanese Operatior, but Seaduction, a Pattaya Diveshop is promoting that "Sport". In my opinion a Dive Shop to avoid. PADI promoting Project AWARE should stop giving licences to Diveshops (Seaduction is a PADI Center) offering Spearfishing. Maybe then this would stop.

Do PADI still run there sperfishing speciality? Maybe it has been discontinued but they certainly used to have one!

I recently undertook the 'Underwater Hunter' indepth course with Seaduction dive centre. It is a really good practical course covering safety, hunting tactics, game fish identification etc. I really enjoy spearfishing and find it far more selective than normal fishing. I normally BBQ all fish caught, so really I do not see much difference between that and buying it from a market (apart from it is guaranteed fresh and has not been caught by a trawler along with sharks, turtles, reef fish etc).

[Apecks]

Yesterday I dove the Hardeep in Samaesan. At the stern was a large, but dead, parrotfish. I have seen this large creature for several years as have many other regular divers. Still had colouration so hadn't been dead long. When I came up, the boat captain told me that on the Saturday, a Japanese operator took down divers with spear guns. He claims they killed it.

So what can we do?

Does not sound like it was killed by spearfishermen (they would generally 'string up' such a fish to take to the surface). It could possibly be the thai dynamite or ammonia fishing that takes place out there (check out the wrecked fishing boat at about 20m off Koh Rong Nong). Rather risky (dynamite) bearing in mind there are 4-8 live 500llb bombs laying off the Hardeep since WWII.

If anyone is interested Seaduction are planning a 5 day liveaboard tuna, marlin & sailfish spearfishing trip off Phuket (20 - 25th September). Anybody interested? Call Andy on 038710029.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Apecks

[Maizefarmer]

To put the record straight:

Spearfishing is legal in Thailand - with or without tanks - so long as its not in a marine park area - and spearguns are legal - makes no diff purchased in Thailand or brought in with you on holiday.

I have speafished in Thailand with and without tanks and I care little for the "cheating" and "not fair arguments". You only have to look at how inselective netts are to realise straight away that spearfishing is a lot more sustainable and enviromently friendly.

The issue in a place like Thailand with has so many dive operators relying on populated reef structures to support recreational scuba diving, is respecting this side of diving and NOT stripping out the reef fish with spear guns.

It's self-discipline when spear-fishing that is important - don't shoot something just for the sake of it, or because you have the chance to - you ahve the oppurtunity to be selective, so use the oppurtunity responsibly.

Leave the reef fish alone, many of which are resident and settle on a particular reef, or particular part of a reef, and stick to hunting pelagics.

Hang back from the reef structures in the open water and pick on the big pelagics like barracuda, sail fish, wahoo, big jacks and any one of a number of others - they are are all in Thailand : its a case of getting the time, tide and weather conditions right.

South end of Koh Racha Noi (100yards or so off the end of the island), the hour before and after sunrise coinciding with high tide, during April, May and June - chances are very good you will run into [a] nice sized Sail fish, which hang around just below the surface - just make sure you have a proper gun and not some plastic/alloy tube crap from Cressi or one of the other scuba equipment manufacturer (most are crap).

Check out Riffe (separguns) - my favourite, or Hamilton Speaguns, or Steve Alexanders - proper guns.

[percy2]

To put the record straight:

Spearfishing is legal in Thailand - with or without tanks - so long as its not in a marine park area - and spearguns are legal - makes no diff purchased in Thailand or brought in with you on holiday.

I have speafished in Thailand with and without tanks and I care little for the "cheating" and "not fair arguments". You only have to look at how inselective netts are to realise straight away that spearfishing is a lot more sustainable and enviromently friendly.

The issue in a place like Thailand with has so many dive operators relying on populated reef structures to support recreational scuba diving, is respecting this side of diving and NOT stripping out the reef fish with spear guns.

It's self-discipline when spear-fishing that is important - don't shoot something just for the sake of it, or because you have the chance to - you ahve the oppurtunity to be selective, so use the oppurtunity responsibly.

Leave the reef fish alone, many of which are resident and settle on a particular reef, or particular part of a reef, and stick to hunting pelagics.

Hang back from the reef structures in the open water and pick on the big pelagics like barracuda, sail fish, wahoo, big jacks and any one of a number of others - they are are all in Thailand : its a case of getting the time, tide and weather conditions right.

South end of Koh Racha Noi (100yards or so off the end of the island), the hour before and after sunrise coinciding with high tide, during April, May and June - chances are very good you will run into [a] nice sized Sail fish, which hang around just below the surface - just make sure you have a proper gun and not some plastic/alloy tube crap from Cressi or one of the other scuba equipment manufacturer (most are crap).

Check out Riffe (separguns) - my favourite, or Hamilton Speaguns, or Steve Alexanders - proper guns.

Nice to read an informed , intelligent post on what some find to be an emotional subject.

Cheers

[Jimjim]

I learned to spearfish in a place where it was considered stupid and ungaming to spearfish while scuba diving. You were liable to get some unfriendly visitors while scuba diving and it isn't quite easy to just pop up to the surface while scuba diving if you run into trouble. I've always considered it a stupid thing to do. If you were just snorkeling you could always pop up to throw the fish in the boat and go back to fishing. Also, where I was on a small, poor island with few resources it wasn't a sport, but people did it to get food. That didn't stop us foreigners from having fun while doing it with the locals, however.

The cheating and not fair arguments have to do with people who think you should only do it while snorkeling as you don't have the advantage of being able to stay down for several minutes. It makes sense to some that consider spear fishing a kind of sport ant that's their code. You don't have to subscribe to that code but you can at least understand it. Also sunrise and sunset are great times to run into sharks.

[womble]

To put the record straight:

Spearfishing is legal in Thailand - with or without tanks - so long as its not in a marine park area - and spearguns are legal - makes no diff purchased in Thailand or brought in with you on holiday.

I have speafished in Thailand with and without tanks and I care little for the "cheating" and "not fair arguments". You only have to look at how inselective netts are to realise straight away that spearfishing is a lot more sustainable and enviromently friendly.

The issue in a place like Thailand with has so many dive operators relying on populated reef structures to support recreational scuba diving, is respecting this side of diving and NOT stripping out the reef fish with spear guns.

It's self-discipline when spear-fishing that is important - don't shoot something just for the sake of it, or because you have the chance to - you ahve the oppurtunity to be selective, so use the oppurtunity responsibly.

Leave the reef fish alone, many of which are resident and settle on a particular reef, or particular part of a reef, and stick to hunting pelagics.

Hang back from the reef structures in the open water and pick on the big pelagics like barracuda, sail fish, wahoo, big jacks and any one of a number of others - they are are all in Thailand : its a case of getting the time, tide and weather conditions right.

South end of Koh Racha Noi (100yards or so off the end of the island), the hour before and after sunrise coinciding with high tide, during April, May and June - chances are very good you will run into [a] nice sized Sail fish, which hang around just below the surface - just make sure you have a proper gun and not some plastic/alloy tube crap from Cressi or one of the other scuba equipment manufacturer (most are crap).

Check out Riffe (separguns) - my favourite, or Hamilton Speaguns, or Steve Alexanders - proper guns.

You can get Riffe from Singapore, i'm trying to decide between Riffe, Daryl wong, rob allen and aimrite for my next gun.

where I spear water is dirty so I use a short 70cm, looking at getting something a bit bigger as I wanna get into bluewater hunting...........

it seems a very undeveloped sport in this country.

Would love to hook up with others interested in the sport, we can share experiances and boat costs.

[Maizefarmer]

1m at the very least - and preferably 1.2 - 1.5m for bluewater - thats my opinion, but more importantly is the ability to shoot accurately.

Putting aside the fact that fataly wounding a large sailfish or wahoo, which then gets off the line only to swim away and die later is a waste, a poor placed shot from an underpowered gun is going to result in almost dead certainty that you are going to loose your gear, if not get hurt. A 2m sailfish on the end of a poorly placed spear is no laughing matter - it'll drag you all over the place and exhuast you to the point that you are either going to have accept the loss of your gun (if you can't cut the line loose), and with no tanks the desire to hang onto to your $500 - 1000 Riffe could cost you your life (hang on to the point of no return - and then see what its like trying to get back to the surface without balcking out and drowning).

Nope - its no laughing matter, any large bluewater pelagic is not worth shooting unless you are going to get a good shot with a decently powered (read as: long) gun.

[Maizefarmer]

To put the record straight:

Spearfishing is legal in Thailand - with or without tanks - so long as its not in a marine park area - and spearguns are legal - makes no diff purchased in Thailand or brought in with you on holiday.

I have speafished in Thailand with and without tanks and I care little for the "cheating" and "not fair arguments". You only have to look at how inselective netts are to realise straight away that spearfishing is a lot more sustainable and enviromently friendly.

The issue in a place like Thailand with has so many dive operators relying on populated reef structures to support recreational scuba diving, is respecting this side of diving and NOT stripping out the reef fish with spear guns.

It's self-discipline when spear-fishing that is important - don't shoot something just for the sake of it, or because you have the chance to - you ahve the oppurtunity to be selective, so use the oppurtunity responsibly.

Leave the reef fish alone, many of which are resident and settle on a particular reef, or particular part of a reef, and stick to hunting pelagics.

Hang back from the reef structures in the open water and pick on the big pelagics like barracuda, sail fish, wahoo, big jacks and any one of a number of others - they are are all in Thailand : its a case of getting the time, tide and weather conditions right.

South end of Koh Racha Noi (100yards or so off the end of the island), the hour before and after sunrise coinciding with high tide, during April, May and June - chances are very good you will run into [a] nice sized Sail fish, which hang around just below the surface - just make sure you have a proper gun and not some plastic/alloy tube crap from Cressi or one of the other scuba equipment manufacturer (most are crap).

Check out Riffe (separguns) - my favourite, or Hamilton Speaguns, or Steve Alexanders - proper guns.

You can get Riffe from Singapore, i'm trying to decide between Riffe, Daryl wong, rob allen and aimrite for my next gun.

where I spear water is dirty so I use a short 70cm, looking at getting something a bit bigger as I wanna get into bluewater hunting...........

it seems a very undeveloped sport in this country.

Would love to hook up with others interested in the sport, we can share experiances and boat costs.

Riffe - personally speaking - and as you say parts can be purchased in Sing, but that aside they have always featured better than Aimrite or D/Wong in reviews. But lastly - chances are, those you spearfishing with you are more likely to have Riffe gear than any of the other names - which makes onboard repairs/parts more likely. Still, they are much of a sameness (except for price - with Riffe topping out all the others from a cost perspective).

[womble]

I've ordered my new gun, a 55" Wong Hybrid with mid handle. In the end the lifetime warrenty swung it for me.

It should get here next week, then i'm heading straight over to Andaman side for my first attempt at bluewater spearing,

can't wait!!!