น้อมเกล้าน้อมกระหม่อม

[DavidHouston]

Please help me understand the usage differences between these two phrases:

[The definitions are from Lexitron]

น้อมเกล้าน้อมกระหม่อมถวาย [V] present; offer

Syn. น้อมเกล้าฯ ถวาย

Sample:เศรษฐีจากเมืองจีนน้อมเกล้าน้อมกระหม่อมถวายที่ดิน 100 ไร่

โปรดเกล้าโปรดกระหม่อม [V] royal to please

Syn. โปรดเกล้า, กรุณา

Sample:พล.อ. เปรม ติณสูลานนท์ได้รับการโปรดเกล้าโปรดกระหม่อมเป็นนายกรัฐมนตรีตามการกราบบังคมทูลของประธานรัฐสภา

Althought the definitions and examples are given, I am not clear on the difference in usage. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Edited December 4, 2007 by DavidHouston

[BambinA]

From your post

น้อมเกล้าน้อมกระหม่อมถวาย [V] present; offer = ordinary people give something to/for the King

โปรดเกล้าโปรดกระหม่อม [V] royal to please = King gives something for someone

[stateman]

Please help me understand the usage differences between these two phrases:

[The definitions are from Lexitron]

น้อมเกล้าน้อมกระหม่อมถวาย [V] present; offer

Syn. น้อมเกล้าฯ ถวาย

Sample:เศรษฐีจากเมืองจีนน้อมเกล้าน้อมกระหม่อมถวายที่ดิน 100 ไร่

* Literally it is like someone bowing his head when presenting (to the king). Imagine when a subject in the kneeling position would raise his offering up to his head's level to offer to the king. (Obviously, if it is 100 rai of land, he would raise the deed document, not the land itself.)

โปรดเกล้าโปรดกระหม่อม [V] royal to please

* Rather than "rayal to please", "royal granting" may be clearer and more correct.

Literally it is like the king grants to the recipient's head. (Imagine the old time when a subject was in the kneeling position when dealing with the king. What the king grants is considered something coming from high to low. Thus, the king grants to the recipient's head. )

Syn. โปรดเกล้า, กรุณา

Sample:พล.อ. เปรม ติณสูลานนท์ได้รับการโปรดเกล้าโปรดกระหม่อมเป็นนายกรัฐมนตรีตามการกราบบังคมทูลของประธานรัฐสภา

Althought the definitions and examples are given, I am not clear on the difference in usage. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

* The first one is subject to king.

The second one is King to subject. or in your example about Gen. Prem, it is the subject receiving from the King, which is still King to subject."

[DavidHouston]

I received a very helpful private message from one of you in response to my continued difficulty in comprehending the use of the royal language. Here is part of his response:

_________________

Hi David,

"ใต้ฝ่าละอองธุลีพระบาทโปรดเกล้าโปรดกระหม่อม ขอพระองค์ทรงพระชนม์มายุยิ่งยืนนาน . . ."

A little intro first..

The culture from long time ago has been for the people to address the king as the king is so high that you don't 'talk' to him face-to-face. You are speaking to the dust under his feet, with your head (the head being the highest part of the speaker). The king would sit on a podium higher than the people. The people typically would kneel with their heads bowed down. (This will give you the perspective of the head trying to make a connection with the dust under the king's feet.)

In today's interaction, such addressing might seem out of place to a foreigner. However, officially this is still the correct way to address the king. In official business and in newscast, they still maintain the formality.

So the translation of the sentence above goes like this..

"Under the dust under your feet, granted (onto my) head, (So the intro is done, the speaker is about to really make the statement..)

May you live a long life"

"โปรดเกล้าโปรดกระหม่อม"; what is it that they are receiving from the King?

Answer: a form of permission to speak to, or address, the king. It is "granted (onto my) head" or "permission on my head."

______________________________________

Thank you, explainer, for helping us understand that the King is granting permission to the person who is addressing him to say what that person is about to say.