Engineering In Thailand

[corkman]

I am just pondering the idea.

Alot of folks have remarked recently that I should look for work in Thailand / Bangkok. I am a qualified mechanical engineer, with 4yrs experience as a consultant in the Building Services sector (air con / ventilation / plumbing / etc.).

I'm married to a Thai lady for 5 yrs now, we live together in Ireland - but I would love to get work in Thailand, and be able to live there instead of here!

So - I am just fishing for ideas - broadly speaking - looking to see what type of jobs are on offer, if any, and what srot of salaries would be on offer......

Can anyone shed any lgiht on this???

Many thanks.

[johnnyk]

My guess is not much. You are not allowed to do work a Thai can do and there are Thai engineers.

[paulsmithson]

correction johnny. There are many good thai engineers

[GuestHouse]

You are not allowed to do work a Thai can do and there are Thai engineers.

Odd then that I know over 80 expatriate engineers working in Thailand. Odder still that I myself worked in Thailand for twelve years as an engineer and recently turned down an engineering job in Thailand.

---

OP don't be put off by the negativity of the above posts, it's not that there are no opportunities for foreign engineers in Thailand, rather some folks around here would rather there were not. Their worst fear is that some other foreigner gets a well paid job in Thailand.

I've worked with expatriate building service engineers in Thailand so there are opportunities. I'd recommend you start with a search of the Jobs Pages of the Bangkok Post and see what you can find there.

If you have experience in specialist HVAC Systems, such as High Purity or Blast Resistant systems then I think your chances would of finding a post would be much higher.

Also, if you can sell yourself on a broader front - Perhaps including Project Management of HVAC Systems, Proposal/Marketing and Site Management then this again would greatly increase your chances of finding employment.

Edited December 13, 2007 by GuestHouse

[PattayaParent]

I second GuestHouse post, I'm currently working with approximately 140 non-Thai engineers here in Thailand.

You'd probably have more chance of work on a construction job than in Building Services and Maintenance.

Next time you're here I'd check out the names of the M&E subbies on the site hoardings of construction jobs in Bangkok, or ask a mate to do it for you.

Also find as many employment agency details as you can in UK and send them a CV.

See if you can get some details in UK for Christiani Nielsen, they've got a few high rise projects on the go here and they employ expats. Highpoint Rendell are consultants here, try their Birmingham office which deals with Thai projects, but I don't know what their workload is now that they've finished at the airport.

There's a worldwide shortage of engineers at the moment so many companies are crying out for people.

[GuestHouse]

^ Yes and the rates are up

[Prakanong]

"Also, if you can sell yourself on a broader front - Perhaps including Project Management of HVAC Systems, Proposal/Marketing and Site Management then this again would greatly increase your chances of finding employment. "

My pal does exactly this and has been in Thailand since the early 90's - works for Carrier.

[johnnyk]

Easy folks, I said it was "my guess", hardly a nasty negative.

[naka]

I suspect that Guesthouse has :-

A good deal of overseas experience.

A good C.V.

A number of contacts in his particular industry who would vouch for him (very important).

I doubt the OP has any of these.

Naka.

[GuestHouse]

I suspect that Guesthouse has :-

A good deal of overseas experience.

A good C.V.

A number of contacts in his particular industry who would vouch for him (very important).

I doubt the OP has any of these.

Naka.

I'm like everyone I know.

Whatever experience I have, the quality of my CV and the number of contacts I have are all things that came along - I started at ground level with non of these.

The signficant issue is educational qualifications and attitude - All down to the OP.

[ukjackthai]

The signficant issue is educational qualifications and attitude - All down to the OP.

From my experiences in a headhunter firm I have learnt that for senior exec positions its experience that counts the most.

Edit:

Ive seen persons with PhD in Electrical engineering with a lower annual package than a BA holder because of experiance.. IMO experience IS more important than education.

If i was taking the engineering career path i'd go to China.

Edited December 15, 2007 by ukjackthai

[GuestHouse]

The OP has already stated that he has qualifications but only 4 years experience. He is not a high flying executive with donkey's years of experience, he's a young man looking for a start.

Educational qualifications and attitude are the issue for the OP.

He is also asking about Engineering posts - A degree in Engineering will almost certainly be a requirement. Not just to get through the door at an interview, but very likely to get a work permit - Where a formal qualification in the post he is applying for is almost certainly a requirement.

[canadiangirl]

I recall seeing some jobs posted in the BKK post in the past fews days in Mechanical Engineering.

Good luck!

[tjo o tjim]

My personal take is that to command an expat salary you need to be able to manage others and communicate effectively, or have significant specific industry experience.

The industry as a whole is hopping globally; in the US we have been struggling to hire engineers with 4-10 years experience for several years. We had one guy with only three years experience looking for over US$110k, another with 5 years experience wanting $140k (both with PE's).

Another option is doing contract work from Thailand for other parts of the world. You don't get to sleep much, but you can make a good living. It would be easy enough for you to set up a company and keep everything is legitimate.

[PattayaParent]

There are also some property management companies here (glorified estate agents) like CBRE and Knight Frank that may have some requirement for a ME to look after property maintenance issues. As well as other companies that have a lot of fixed property assets in the country, Tesco, Carrefour etc. or petrol companies.

[Prakanong]

There are also some property management companies here (glorified estate agents) like CBRE and Knight Frank that may have some requirement for a ME to look after property maintenance issues. As well as other companies that have a lot of fixed property assets in the country, Tesco, Carrefour etc. or petrol companies.

I know someone who used to do the air con at Tesco - Colypat is a good friend of his

[tutsiwarrior]

My personal take is that to command an expat salary you need to be able to manage others and communicate effectively, or have significant specific industry experience.

my experience is that in order to command an (western) expat salary one must be assigned by an (western) expatriate organization to a position overseas for which the appointee would receive the normal western salary + uplift(a percentage of western salary based upon hardship and other considerations) + expatriate package(accommodation, airfares, insurance, local transport, school fees for dependants, etc).

From observation I have noted that western expatriates that apply on speculation when already residing overseas when hired receive the 'going rate' for a local person and whatever associated benefits...usually a small fraction of that of the western expat 'on assignment' as described above.

[Prakanong]

My personal take is that to command an expat salary you need to be able to manage others and communicate effectively, or have significant specific industry experience.

my experience is that in order to command an (western) expat salary one must be assigned by an (western) expatriate organization to a position overseas for which the appointee would receive the normal western salary + uplift(a percentage of western salary based upon hardship and other considerations) + expatriate package(accommodation, airfares, insurance, local transport, school fees for dependants, etc).

From observation I have noted that western expatriates that apply on speculation when already residing overseas when hired receive the 'going rate' for a local person and whatever associated benefits...usually a small fraction of that of the western expat 'on assignment' as described above.

Yes - we aretalking about that in the MBA work thread

I would disagrre a little with the "going rate" for the local thread though - there are what is called "Local Plus" contracts now in a lot of companies/industries

Salary is a number of times more than the local person plus there are some benefits but not usually housing, schooling or flights home.

Then again the "On speculation" might be a vital point there - the "Local plus" people I know have not applied on spec in country so to speak. They have tended to wantan oversea's position in a company and applied for it bit not been put "On assignment" - a number of people might have filled the role.

[GuestHouse]

My personal take is that to command an expat salary you need to be able to manage others and communicate effectively, or have significant specific industry experience.

my experience is that in order to command an (western) expat salary one must be assigned by an (western) expatriate organization to a position overseas for which the appointee would receive the normal western salary + uplift(a percentage of western salary based upon hardship and other considerations) + expatriate package(accommodation, airfares, insurance, local transport, school fees for dependants, etc).

From observation I have noted that western expatriates that apply on speculation when already residing overseas when hired receive the 'going rate' for a local person and whatever associated benefits...usually a small fraction of that of the western expat 'on assignment' as described above.

Yes - we aretalking about that in the MBA work thread

I would disagrre a little with the "going rate" for the local thread though - there are what is called "Local Plus" contracts now in a lot of companies/industries

Salary is a number of times more than the local person plus there are some benefits but not usually housing, schooling or flights home.

Then again the "On speculation" might be a vital point there - the "Local plus" people I know have not applied on spec in country so to speak. They have tended to wantan oversea's position in a company and applied for it bit not been put "On assignment" - a number of people might have filled the role.

I think both points are true here. The full expat deal is generally only given to someone being posted from overseas, while 'Local Plus' tends to be given to people who apply locally or apply for a position that does not actually exist as an 'assignment'.

Examples might be at the end of an assignment an expat doesn't want to go home and hence applies for a local possition - Or the company get the message that an expat would take a local deal+ just to stay in Thailand (hence saving the company money).

People I know who took 'Local+' deals have tended to be bought in at this elevated rate, but not benefitted from annual pay rises.

[Prakanong]

My personal take is that to command an expat salary you need to be able to manage others and communicate effectively, or have significant specific industry experience.

my experience is that in order to command an (western) expat salary one must be assigned by an (western) expatriate organization to a position overseas for which the appointee would receive the normal western salary + uplift(a percentage of western salary based upon hardship and other considerations) + expatriate package(accommodation, airfares, insurance, local transport, school fees for dependants, etc).

From observation I have noted that western expatriates that apply on speculation when already residing overseas when hired receive the 'going rate' for a local person and whatever associated benefits...usually a small fraction of that of the western expat 'on assignment' as described above.

Yes - we aretalking about that in the MBA work thread

I would disagrre a little with the "going rate" for the local thread though - there are what is called "Local Plus" contracts now in a lot of companies/industries

Salary is a number of times more than the local person plus there are some benefits but not usually housing, schooling or flights home.

Then again the "On speculation" might be a vital point there - the "Local plus" people I know have not applied on spec in country so to speak. They have tended to wantan oversea's position in a company and applied for it bit not been put "On assignment" - a number of people might have filled the role.

I think both points are true here. The full expat deal is generally only given to someone being posted from overseas, while 'Local Plus' tends to be given to people who apply locally or apply for a position that does not actually exist as an 'assignment'.

Examples might be at the end of an assignment an expat doesn't want to go home and hence applies for a local possition - Or the company get the message that an expat would take a local deal+ just to stay in Thailand (hence saving the company money).

People I know who took 'Local+' deals have tended to be bought in at this elevated rate, but not benefitted from annual pay rises.

There are differences as well about the term "Assigment" the positions I know as local+ are permanent jobs and the employee could stay as long as they wanted if performing and the role stayed there - its not like a Director of HR say brought in for a 2 year rotation in the region then off to another position.

People where I am do also move the other way as well - local employee's head off to HQ in Europe (how they will handle the pay issue when they come back I do not know ie much higher for same grade in Europe which they get when there - can they reduce their salary on return?)

Where I work people still get the annual pay rise along with everyone else plus bonus plus any "Performance" increments

I do think we are talking though about different Local+ situations though and in different industries with different demand and supply models for staff.

[corkman]

Thank you so much to everyone for all your replies! I was not expecting so many, so quickly! I have been out sick for the past week - due in no small part to the miserable climate here in Ireland - hence my lack of feedback!!!

So - in summary:

Positions are available - but salaries vary considerably based on whether you get sent out to BKK by a western company - request assignment to BKK with a western company - or apply for work 'locally' to a western company. And any of the above will depend greatly on experience - of which mine is limited thus far.

At the moment, I am managing the Mechancial & Electrical services (worth about €3m) for a 120 bedroom 4 star hotel...... I have done quite alot of work along the lines of this - and have quite alot of high level experience, more so than most with the same number of yrs..... my 4yrs is really worth about 6 based on an industrial "standard" as it were - largely because I came to my current employer with "construction" experience as well as a (equivalent) masters degree in mech. eng. The company is small, the projects are big - so I was thrown in at the deep end from day 1 to be honest........ I'm also a little more "mature" as it were than your typical engineer with 4yrs experience - most would be about 26 - 27yrs old.... I'm nudgng 30 and married with children ....... that is reflected in my personality and have since been told I was employed on the basis of first impressions - that my attitude and personality were right for the job......

The fact I speak a little thai (emphisis on little) must be a bonus. I am going to aply myself to that more in 2008 and try to bring up my standard. I am quite well tuned to Thai customs and culture, quite aware of social classes and am self aware my place in it (dpending on where I am, and who I am with), and "mesh" failry well with Thai people. Thai's often remark I am "not like other Farang"..... in that I participate rather than speculate - so again, that must be a bonus also, if any such post would involve dealing with Thai clients and co-workers etc.

So - I suppose the reality of the situation is that whilst I can try I really need a bit more experience if I am hoping to get anything remotely resembling a western salary. I need to try and get to know a few more people in the industry in Bkk...... contacts if you will. I need to get registered with any recruitemnt agencies that might be sending people to bkk...... It should be added that I am not in a hurry....... I am looking down the line a couple of yrs., so if I start looking now, by teh time I really want to be there I should have found something....... and if something comes up before, then so much te better.....

Many thanks to everyone. And by the way - I take the negative input with the positive - its all relevent and gives me a feel of what degree of reistance I will encounter in my "quest".

Cheers,

Corkman......

Edited December 17, 2007 by corkman

[johnnyk]

corkman,

It seems then that your best chances of a decent wage are to get on with a western company that will send you to thailand. You do have something to offer and married with child can't hurt as it suggests stability rather than someone who simply wants to live in Thailand and partake of its pleasures.

Maybe compile a list of such companies operating in both Ireland and Thailand, contact them in Eire then take a holiday to Thailand and follow up. I always think you have a better chance and will learn more face-to-face.

Chok dee.

[Prakanong]

Thank you so much to everyone for all your replies! I was not expecting so many, so quickly! I have been out sick for the past week - due in no small part to the miserable climate here in Ireland - hence my lack of feedback!!!

So - in summary:

Positions are available - but salaries vary considerably based on whether you get sent out to BKK by a western company - request assignment to BKK with a western company - or apply for work 'locally' to a western company. And any of the above will depend greatly on experience - of which mine is limited thus far.

At the moment, I am managing the Mechancial & Electrical services (worth about €3m) for a 120 bedroom 4 star hotel...... I have done quite alot of work along the lines of this - and have quite alot of high level experience, more so than most with the same number of yrs..... my 4yrs is really worth about 6 based on an industrial "standard" as it were - largely because I came to my current employer with "construction" experience as well as a (equivalent) masters degree in mech. eng. The company is small, the projects are big - so I was thrown in at the deep end from day 1 to be honest........ I'm also a little more "mature" as it were than your typical engineer with 4yrs experience - most would be about 26 - 27yrs old.... I'm nudgng 30 and married with children ....... that is reflected in my personality and have since been told I was employed on the basis of first impressions - that my attitude and personality were right for the job......

The fact I speak a little thai (emphisis on little) must be a bonus. I am going to aply myself to that more in 2008 and try to bring up my standard. I am quite well tuned to Thai customs and culture, quite aware of social classes and am self aware my place in it (dpending on where I am, and who I am with), and "mesh" failry well with Thai people. Thai's often remark I am "not like other Farang"..... in that I participate rather than speculate - so again, that must be a bonus also, if any such post would involve dealing with Thai clients and co-workers etc.

So - I suppose the reality of the situation is that whilst I can try I really need a bit more experience if I am hoping to get anything remotely resembling a western salary. I need to try and get to know a few more people in the industry in Bkk...... contacts if you will. I need to get registered with any recruitemnt agencies that might be sending people to bkk...... It should be added that I am not in a hurry....... I am looking down the line a couple of yrs., so if I start looking now, by teh time I really want to be there I should have found something....... and if something comes up before, then so much te better.....

Many thanks to everyone. And by the way - I take the negative input with the positive - its all relevent and gives me a feel of what degree of reistance I will encounter in my "quest".

Cheers,

Corkman......

At least your feet are on the ground and you do not have the pie in the sky view like some that you will walk in and collect jobs and money because you are a farang - good on you but you would be surprised at the dreamers out there.

Just take your time - as you say you are prepared to wait a while so map out a plan and work towards it - learn Thai, experience on the systems that Thailand has etc etc

As I said my pal works in Air Con in Thailand - been out there about 15 years now. He works for Carrier on the big units.

[PattayaParent]

You may be able to pick up short term work in the commissioning phases of projects that require people to be on the job for only a short term.

I stayed here for a couple of years just doing 'contract' work like that.

Deal was an expat salary and insurance but no benefits (housing, flights etc). Still a good deal as I have my own flat and car and am not bothered about flying 'home' for holidays.

Good luck with the job hunting.

Edited December 18, 2007 by PattayaParent

[corkman]

PattayaParent - if it came to it, I would give it a shot, but I would have wife and baby in tow, so something a bit more stable would really be needed to be honest....... a years contract maybe.... I would surely meet the right people and pick up another contract after that......

Prakanong - Carrier are big - especially chillers / AHU's nice job to get...... wouldn't mind that - he's not looking for a "right hand man" by any chance is he..... if he's been there 15yrs! ............... and I know what you mean about the dreamers...... thinking they are going to live "the easy life"...... I know plenty of them - unless you have money in the first instance, there is no easy ride..... be it Thailand or "Farang" land......

THe goal for me would be equal or better pay than I get here, but much cheaper living costs...... save alot, invest alot, retire early.......

My salary here just about keeps the wolf from the door (in addition to the two trips a year out to THaialnd and the relatively high standard of social life) ....... even at bkk rates, cost of living would be less than half..... can rent the house in Ireland to clear the mortgage.... by the time I'm 50 I should be able to retire..... no point in even thinking about that here in Ireland..... its 65 or breadline.....

Thanks to all.....

Edited December 18, 2007 by corkman

[PattayaParent]

PattayaParent - if it came to it, I would give it a shot, but I would have wife and baby in tow, so something a bit more stable would really be needed to be honest....... a years contract maybe.... I would surely meet the right people and pick up another contract after that......

Sensible corkman, I wasn't married when I was doing contract work.

Wouldn't mind going back to it though when I retire and maybe just work 3 months a year.

And yes, once you're here you make the contacts for future work, mine were mostly made in Tony's in Soi Cowboy

[Prakanong]

PattayaParent - if it came to it, I would give it a shot, but I would have wife and baby in tow, so something a bit more stable would really be needed to be honest....... a years contract maybe.... I would surely meet the right people and pick up another contract after that......

Prakanong - Carrier are big - especially chillers / AHU's nice job to get...... wouldn't mind that - he's not looking for a "right hand man" by any chance is he..... if he's been there 15yrs! ............... and I know what you mean about the dreamers...... thinking they are going to live "the easy life"...... I know plenty of them - unless you have money in the first instance, there is no easy ride..... be it Thailand or "Farang" land......

THe goal for me would be equal or better pay than I get here, but much cheaper living costs...... save alot, invest alot, retire early.......

My salary here just about keeps the wolf from the door (in addition to the two trips a year out to THaialnd and the relatively high standard of social life) ....... even at bkk rates, cost of living would be less than half..... can rent the house in Ireland to clear the mortgage.... by the time I'm 50 I should be able to retire..... no point in even thinking about that here in Ireland..... its 65 or breadline.....

Thanks to all.....

I will have a word with my pal regarding his opinion on the job scene but obvioulsy not about a position with his company ;-)

I should see him over the Christmas holidays - its usual to hear him from afar first

[IMA_FARANG]

I am just pondering the idea.

Alot of folks have remarked recently that I should look for work in Thailand / Bangkok. I am a qualified mechanical engineer, with 4yrs experience as a consultant in the Building Services sector (air con / ventilation / plumbing / etc.).

I'm married to a Thai lady for 5 yrs now, we live together in Ireland - but I would love to get work in Thailand, and be able to live there instead of here!

So - I am just fishing for ideas - broadly speaking - looking to see what type of jobs are on offer, if any, and what srot of salaries would be on offer......

Can anyone shed any lgiht on this???

Many thanks.

Well, yes and no. You probably could find work with a expatriate run company in construction engineering but it would have to be:

1. A job that couldnn't be done by a Thai (and is legal for an expat to do)

2. You have the experience to bring something valuable to the company that they can't find locally.

3. You have the experience and ability to manage others (i.e. supervise Thai workers)

I know a English draftsman who is highly skilled in design and drawing of pipe systems (as in gas or oil pipelines). He can take a project from a specification, plan and design the pipe system, make the detailed drawings and specify the matierials and costs required. He makes a very good salary (he normally bills per hour on the projects he takes). But he only get that salary because of his experience and ability.

If you have something like that, there may be a job in Thailand.

[GuestHouse]

I know a English draftsman who is highly skilled in design and drawing of pipe systems (as in gas or oil pipelines). He can take a project from a specification, plan and design the pipe system, make the detailed drawings and specify the matierials and costs required. He makes a very good salary (he normally bills per hour on the projects he takes). But he only get that salary because of his experience and ability.

If you have something like that, there may be a job in Thailand.

And how did he get that experience?

I was given my first assignment to Thailand with less than 4 years after graduation and worked with a number of other assigned expatriate engineers with less experience (some still within their Graduate Training Period).

I and they have moved onto exactly the kind of experience base as the friend you mention.

Large projects have demands for a wide range of skills and abilities. It is my experience that young engineers can and do bring engergy, enthusiasm and an open minded approach to Projects.

We are currently trying to recruit two engineers for the project I am working on in Saudi Arabia (Control Systems -Not HVAC), I have specifically asked for graduate engineers of between 25 and 32 years old. It is my expectation that when we get these guys on board they will do a great job.

The policy is simple and well proven - Employ bright young people and give them two things: Guidence where they need it and a chance to prove how good they are.

---

I've given my advice to the OP regarding finding work in Thailand, but I think looking further afield (Including the Middle East and China) might be a good idea. - That's job advice - If I was offering carreer advice I would recommend the OP applies for posts with the main Engineering Contractors working in the Oil & Gas industry where he can earn good (great) money, build a structured career and see a lot more of the world than just Ireland and Thailand.

Edited December 20, 2007 by GuestHouse