Aussie Visa For Thai Girlfriend

[Tolley]

Well in my case i doubt we would have got a tourist visa without a stat dec. as my girlfriend d was deported from Japan after a five year overstay.

In the SD i guranteed that she would return to Thailand when the svisa expired.

We also wrote personal letters.

The more documents the better.

And just because it isn't listed on the website doesn't mean that it isn't helpful.

And thanks to GBurns and MM we are now blissfully content in Australia.

[CbrLad]

Well in my case i doubt we would have got a tourist visa without a stat dec. as my girlfriend d was deported from Japan after a five year overstay.

In the SD i guranteed that she would return to Thailand when the svisa expired.

We also wrote personal letters.

The more documents the better.

And just because it isn't listed on the website doesn't mean that it isn't helpful.

And thanks to GBurns and MM we are now blissfully content in Australia.

The thing is you will never know what did and didn't sway the decision, I seriously doubt you making a stat dec she would return would have been the decisive factor, as I have been saying, and Mighty Mouse just said above DIAC are not looking for you to gurantee the person will return. They cannot and do not expect you to do something you cannot physicaly do. Anyway your case seems to be an exception rather than a rule.

[Tolley]

Well in my case i doubt we would have got a tourist visa without a stat dec. as my girlfriend d was deported from Japan after a five year overstay.

In the SD i guranteed that she would return to Thailand when the svisa expired.

We also wrote personal letters.

The more documents the better.

And just because it isn't listed on the website doesn't mean that it isn't helpful.

And thanks to GBurns and MM we are now blissfully content in Australia.

The thing is you will never know what did and didn't sway the decision, I seriously doubt you making a stat dec she would return would have been the decisive factor, as I have been saying, and Mighty Mouse just said above DIAC are not looking for you to gurantee the person will return. They cannot and do not expect you to do something you cannot physicaly do. Anyway your case seems to be an exception rather than a rule.

Well the Lady who spoke to us on the phone from the embassy certainly wanted it along with more photos and telehone records although i only had pre paid cards for my telephone calls so while it may not be the deciding factor the more documents you provide the less likely you are to get a rejection.

[watchoutfarang]

Well gburns, thats ok. Believe what you like, we are happily in OZ. Those snakehead comments only add to your lack of knowledge.

Best regards.

http://www.immi.gov.au/

Seeing as you only joined yesterday....I will cut you some slack...

but just to fill you in....I have been doing this for a number of years....and not just on this site...For someone with a lack of knowledge I have been reasonably successful with the applications that I have assisted with off board.....100% so far....that includes various types of visas and not just 676 visas.

Been there and done that old son.....and courtesy of this site...I will soon have the T shirt to prove it.

Gburns,

In my mind yours is the only advice i would follow since you were nothing but helpful. One question though, what is the difference between 48R visa and a class 676

Cheers

watchoufarang

[CbrLad]

Well gburns, thats ok. Believe what you like, we are happily in OZ. Those snakehead comments only add to your lack of knowledge.

Best regards.

http://www.immi.gov.au/

Seeing as you only joined yesterday....I will cut you some slack...

but just to fill you in....I have been doing this for a number of years....and not just on this site...For someone with a lack of knowledge I have been reasonably successful with the applications that I have assisted with off board.....100% so far....that includes various types of visas and not just 676 visas.

Been there and done that old son.....and courtesy of this site...I will soon have the T shirt to prove it.

Gburns,

In my mind yours is the only advice i would follow since you were nothing but helpful. One question though, what is the difference between 48R visa and a class 676

Cheers

watchoufarang

He means well and is helpful, no doubt but I think it has been shown he is advising people to provide information contrary to what is being asked for, with the stat dec in particular. Provide what they ask for, if they then want a stat dec as was the case in Trolley's case then provide it then and address the issue they ask to be clarified. Don't do it as a substitute for the letter. In most cases you will probably be right, but you never know.

As to your question abour 48R and class 676. The 48R is the application form for a visitor visa, that results in a class 676 visa. But maybe you will only belive it if Mr Burns tells you so.

Edited January 10, 2008 by CbrLad

[gburns57au]

MM.....

Answer this for me.....if the rep at the Dept told you that a Stat Dec can provide a compelling reason to return....what would you write in the Stat Dec ???

Lets not confuse people with the the requirements of the 679 visa....I certainly havent brought that up. I am fully aware of the OP's question...all of my posts are in reference to the 676 visa.

Part of any "sponsor" arrangement is that the person who is the "sponsor" has the duty to inform the dept of any change in circumstances.....If the visa holder does a runner then you will be expected to give any information that will assist the Dept in locating that person. If you are listed in the application as the Additional funds provider, you will be expected to act in the same manner as the "sponsor". For example if you can not provide the funds then you need to inform the Dept....if the visa holder does a runner and you are no longer providing the funds you need to inform the Dept...in the latter case they will want to know where the visa holder has gone. Who do you think they will come and ask ??

My response regarding the SD was to Lioness....where I said that the SD holds more sway than a letter.....(you have backed this up by quoting the rep at the Dept.)...It was then that yourself (albiet later) and Cbrlad decided to mount a challenge to this. Even though we have all agreed that while the SD is not a requirement, it can be a useful asset to weaker applications. Again supported by your rep at the Dept.

Cbrlad......

Who has told you that they will ask for a SD on their own forms....the SD link on the website directs you to the AG website.....the SD link there provides the exact same form that you get from the Post Office and the same form I have used in my wifes spouse visa application (as well as the required 888 forms) which is the updated form of the one I used in all my wifes visitors visa applications. There is no form that covers sponsorship of a 48R applicant.

By stating that you will ensure that the applicant abides etc..., you are not saying that she will....you are saying that you will ensure...the onus is on what you do...not on what she does. If you really wanted to be pedantic then you could add "to the best of my ability", would that make you feel better?? Let me ask you a question.....How many people who have signed the applications and "agreed to abide by the conditions"....have actually overstayed or otherwise breached their visa conditions....I would hazard a guess at "thousands" So what assurance is the Dept getting from that signature....My guess at that is....SFA. That is why a "sponsor" assurance stands an application in good stead. If the assurance is given as part of the application in the first place, especially on an application that could be considered weak....why the heck wouldnt you include it ?? It can save frustration and unecessary delays...especially to people who are under time limitations.

In Tolleys case, he had a very big hurdle to overcome.....the lady asked for a Stat Dec....therefore it did hold some sway in the grant of the visa...probably a lot more than more photos and phone bills.

"In most cases you will probably be right, but you will never know".... No, you wont know will you ?? At the end of the day does he care? ....No, He got the visa he wanted...that is the result that all who ask questions here want...by submitting the strongest application that they can, then they stand a good chance of achieving that result....lets advise people to go skinny on the applications...and see what the results are....I can reasonably predict that they will more than a few refusals.

The one thing we have always advised here is to make the application as strong as possible, Not necessarily with more documentation but with quality documentation....as I have said before...many of the applications I have assisted with off board have used a SD and not a letter...not one was knocked back or delayed, Some have used both again with the sme result...whereas I have learnt of them knocked back with just a letter and mostly for the same reason....They didnt believe that applicant had a solid enough reason to return. The exact reason that MM's rep in the Dept said that a SD could negate.

Tolley and Watchoutfarang......

Thanks for the support ....and to ease Cbrlad's mind....he is a 100% right with the 48R and visa sub class 676 definition....

[CbrLad]

...

Part of any "sponsor" arrangement is that the person who is the "sponsor" has the duty to inform the dept of any change in circumstances.....If the visa holder does a runner then you will be expected to give any information that will assist the Dept in locating that person. If you are listed in the application as the Additional funds provider, you will be expected to act in the same manner as the "sponsor". For example if you can not provide the funds then you need to inform the Dept....if the visa holder does a runner and you are no longer providing the funds you need to inform the Dept...in the latter case they will want to know where the visa holder has gone. Who do you think they will come and ask ??

Gburns, will all due respect I don't think you understand what you are sponsoring the person for in relation to the 676 class visa. In fact I think the whole crux of our debate revolves around this basic point me thinks. You will note that most times I use the word sponsor I do it like this "sponsor" because really you are not sponsoring their application. Why? Well with the 676 you are ONLY providing support from a fiscal view point. DIAC are not asking you to ensure they will abide by their visa conditions, they are not asking you to be their keeper, they are asking the applicant to abide, all they are asking from you is if you are paying and providing financial and accomodation support. THATS IT!!!!! So with any application you should limit yourself to address the issues that belong to you and not the applicant as a whole.

IF the person could afford the trip themselves then there is no need for you to sponsor them, although if they are visiting you they still ask for a letter of invitation. Don't beleive me? Read the 48R application form carefuly. Under which section do you think it talks about a "sponsor", Yep section G which relates to money. In particular questions 29, 30 and 31.

Question 18 asks about having family and friends in Aus, but this is not for sponsorship reasons.

Is there anywhere else? Well not really? Is there anywhere where it asks the applicant to provide someone to go guarantor? Nop.

Link to 48R english form: http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/48r.pdf

So basicaly all they want from you is something to say you have invited them and that you are paying, simple as they. To back this up they then also want evidence that you can afford to pay and that there is some form of basic relationship between you and the applicant. For exmaple I "sponsored" my soon to be wifes sister for a 676 so there is a basic relatonship that didn't need to be otherwise proved, but my 'sponsoship" was restricted to inviting her here (well there because I live in the UK hence why my replies are at un-godly Aussie hours), offering accomodation and saying I will pay her airfare and costs.

Now read the check-list document (link below) and see what it asks for from the sponsor. Part of this is also on the 48R form, page 5 bottom left hand corner. Now the only talk of "sponsorship" in the check list is only in the section that talks about finances, and yep it says:

...

Other Documents

...

c)

If visiting relatives or friends, a letter of invitation from your relative or friend in Australia. If your relative or friend is paying for your visit, evidence that they have the necessary funds.

Link to said check-list: http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/_pdf/676-visa-checklist.pdf

See it is asking for a letter of invitation and if they (read you) are paying evidence of funds. They are not asking you to be their guarantor, they are not asking you to sign in blood, all they are asking for is something very simple. Who is paying and can they afford it?

So the question is why do you think DIAC are asking for more from you? They aren't. All they want is to know you have invited them and if you are paying or not, and of course that you can afford to pay. Now if I am wrong, then please point me to a DIAC document that says so.

My response regarding the SD was to Lioness....where I said that the SD holds more sway than a letter.....(you have backed this up by quoting the rep at the Dept.)...It was then that yourself (albiet later) and Cbrlad decided to mount a challenge to this. Even though we have all agreed that while the SD is not a requirement, it can be a useful asset to weaker applications. Again supported by your rep at the Dept.

Actually if you read MM's reply he didn't back up your assurtion it held more sway, he to para phrase said in certain cirumstances (and gave an example) it could be used to back-up a claim that couldn't otherwise be backed up. My concern is you are suggesting people use a stat dec as a substute for a letter of invitation and put in words that are not expected of a sponsor for this type of visa. In fact I have said there are times a stat dec would be needed. My example was if your income was from sources where you couldn't easily prove future income, ie self employed, contractor etc. For exmaple. What I have said over and over is don't use a stat dec as a substitute for documents they specificaly ask for (letter of invitation for example) and don't use it to make promises you cannot keep and are not expected to make.

Cbrlad......

Who has told you that they will ask for a SD on their own forms....the SD link on the website directs you to the AG website.....the SD link there provides the exact same form that you get from the Post Office and the same form I have used in my wifes spouse visa application (as well as the required 888 forms) which is the updated form of the one I used in all my wifes visitors visa applications. There is no form that covers sponsorship of a 48R applicant.

I didn't actually say that in that context. What I said is if DIAC want you to provide additonal sponsorship (of the type you seem to think is the norm) then my guess (in this case it is a guess) they will get you to fill out a form SIMILAR to the one used by the sponsor of a 679 style visa. At no point did I say they would get a stat dec from the sponsor for this purpose.

By stating that you will ensure that the applicant abides etc..., you are not saying that she will....you are saying that you will ensure...the onus is on what you do...not on what she does. If you really wanted to be pedantic then you could add "to the best of my ability", would that make you feel better?? Let me ask you a question.....How many people who have signed the applications and "agreed to abide by the conditions"....have actually overstayed or otherwise breached their visa conditions....I would hazard a guess at "thousands" So what assurance is the Dept getting from that signature....My guess at that is....SFA. That is why a "sponsor" assurance stands an application in good stead. If the assurance is given as part of the application in the first place, especially on an application that could be considered weak....why the heck wouldnt you include it ?? It can save frustration and unecessary delays...especially to people who are under time limitations.

But you cannot ensure they will comply, that is the stupidy of it all. So why say it? Besides they aren't asking you to do so.

In Tolleys case, he had a very big hurdle to overcome.....the lady asked for a Stat Dec....therefore it did hold some sway in the grant of the visa...probably a lot more than more photos and phone bills.

Well his case is the exception to the rule, not the norm. From I can gather from reading here DIAC asked for a stat dec to clarify a specifc point no doubt. But the point is THEY asked for it, it wasn't given as a substitute for the required documents. This is not something I would expect of most applications.

The one thing we have always advised here is to make the application as strong as possible, Not necessarily with more documentation but with quality documentation....as I have said before...many of the applications I have assisted with off board have used a SD and not a letter...not one was knocked back or delayed, Some have used both again with the sme result...whereas I have learnt of them knocked back with just a letter and mostly for the same reason....They didnt believe that applicant had a solid enough reason to return. The exact reason that MM's rep in the Dept said that a SD could negate.

Here here, will agree make it as strong as possible. But understand what you are doing. ie you are making an offer of financial assistance, actualy in a nut shell that is all you are doing. You are not there to make sure they abide by their visa coniditions and you cannot make promises on someone elses behalf saying so. Please provide what they ask for, and then if you want to provide something else, such as a blanket stat dec do so but don't substitute one for the other. As I said before maybe Gburns et al method of providing a miss guided and ill worded stat dec works, but my bet is those cases they would get through anyway and they would take the stat dec on the face of it. Contrary to popular belief DIAC are not their to stop people coming, they are making sure people are genuine and will in most cases nick off at the end of their trip.

PS. In MM's example I would expect the stat dec to generally come from the applicant. Remember you cannot speak on behalf of the applicant.

Tolley and Watchoutfarang......

Thanks for the support ....and to ease Cbrlad's mind....he is a 100% right with the 48R and visa sub class 676 definition....

Yep know I am 100% right on that matter. As for everything I've written my estimate is 95% correct, 2% bluff and 3% bulldust.

Edited January 10, 2008 by CbrLad

[CbrLad]

The one thing we have always advised here is to make the application as strong as possible, Not necessarily with more documentation but with quality documentation....as I have said before...many of the applications I have assisted with off board have used a SD and not a letter...not one was knocked back or delayed, Some have used both again with the sme result...whereas I have learnt of them knocked back with just a letter and mostly for the same reason....They didnt believe that applicant had a solid enough reason to return. The exact reason that MM's rep in the Dept said that a SD could negate.

Actually I forgot something related to the above passage. Again Gburns, you make one simple mistake, as I have been saying you cannot speak or make promises on behalf of someone else. The applicant is the one applying not you. The reason to return must come from the applicant, no one else can state a valid reason why someone will return and putting your hand on your heart through a stat dec and saying they will abide and return is not right. You will find that those that got knocked back by providing just a letter, it wouldn't have mattered anyway and pray tell why would a stat dec from someone who is not the applicant have any effect on the APPLICANTS visa application?

[CbrLad]

One last thing I forgot (bit of a bugger you cannot edit a post after about 15mins of posting it) Mr Gburns if you were talking about a visa like the 679 I would agree with 95% of what you are saying. But the 676 has a marked difference which I think I have done to death above. With the 679 you still wouldn't need a stat dec though as you would be signing the 1149 form to put your neck on the line.

Now take a look at the obligations on the 676 page, here http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/tourist/676/obligations.htm. Now take a look at the obligations of the 679 here http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/visiting-f...obligations.htm. See a difference? Yep the 679 talks about the obligations of the applicant and the sponsor, yet the 676 talks only about the applicant. Guess why? The correct answer is also found in my post above.

Like I have said your method may well work and I say go ahead if someone wants to provide more than being asked for, but at the least provide what is asked for in the application and check-list. Anyone who can read english should can see exactly what is being asked for.

But I do think your proof that a stat dec is required or makes a difference is antidoctal at best, and indeed much of your views on what you are really doing is contrary to the clear evidence given. That is for a 676 visa you are only making an offer of financial and accomodation support. Everything else is up to the applicant to prove and abide by and is really none of your business.

PS. Don't take what I have said as a personal attack or take personal offence, I know in your heart you think your advice is sound and the basics are quite clearly sound. But like you I am trying to share my experiance and knowledge to help guys and girls of course and I think on this subject I have shown that I know what I am talking about. I hope this debate helps clarify a few myths, in particular what a 'sponsor' of a 676 applicant is really doing. Do I need to repeat it? Nah, just read above and the excelent forms that DIAC have produced.

[Mighty Mouse]

MM.....

Answer this for me.....if the rep at the Dept told you that a Stat Dec can provide a compelling reason to return....what would you write in the Stat Dec ???

This is what I wrote in post #51: The representative that I spoke with said that a Stat. Dec. could be used to provide the compelling reason to return to Thailand, particularly in the absence of any employers letter or other proofs of the need to return, but not for the purposes of giving visa condition assurances.

The bold and underlined words form the crux of the paragraph. If an applicant is unable to produce documentation that proves that they have a compelling reason to return to LOS, they could (not must..but could) provide a Stat. Dec. stating the compelling reason and why they are unable to provide supporting documentation.

For example; an employer refuses or is unable to provide written evidence that the applicant gains income from full time/part time employment. Being 'unable' to provide documentation might be because of the employers absence from the country at the time, or illness etc.

The Stat. Dec. would be submitted by the applicant, not the sponsor. The information reported in such Stat. Dec. would be based on fact. If the Embassy wanted to check the accuracy of Stat. Dec. contents, they could.

Part of any "sponsor" arrangement is that the person who is the "sponsor" has the duty to inform the dept of any change in circumstances.....If the visa holder does a runner then you will be expected to give any information that will assist the Dept in locating that person. If you are listed in the application as the Additional funds provider, you will be expected to act in the same manner as the "sponsor". For example if you can not provide the funds then you need to inform the Dept....if the visa holder does a runner and you are no longer providing the funds you need to inform the Dept...in the latter case they will want to know where the visa holder has gone. Who do you think they will come and ask ??

The sponsor may have a "duty to inform" but they can't be held responsible if an applicant disregards visa conditions, nor can they be forced by Immigration to answer questions.

You used these words: "The Embassy people are looking for a third party assurance....in other words they want someone to blame.."

and "...assist them to track the girl down."

You have yet to provide the source for these assertions.

My response regarding the SD was to Lioness....where I said that the SD holds more sway than a letter.....(you have backed this up by quoting the rep at the Dept.)...It was then that yourself (albiet later) and Cbrlad decided to mount a challenge to this. Even though we have all agreed that while the SD is not a requirement, it can be a useful asset to weaker applications. Again supported by your rep at the Dept.

You are doing your best to re-arrange my words to support your argument. Please don't read things into my words that aren't there. A Stat. Dec. from a sponsor holds no more sway than a letter of invitation. A Stat. Dec. from a sponsor is not a requirement in the first place. Why are you trying to unnecessarily change the Dept. of Immigrations' set procedures?

A 48R Tourist Visa application is a relatively simple routine to follow. The applicant signs the declaration thus providing assurance of visa condition compliance. If the sponsor wished to make a statement with regard to such assurance by the applicant, they could do so in the letter of invitation. No requirement to do so though and certainly no need for a Stat. Dec. as fully explained by CbrLad throughout this thread. If there was any doubt as to the integrity of the applicant or the answers given to the questions in the 48R form, the case officer would simply reject the application. End of story.

[0Mix1up]

I was hoping to learn something in this thread

But now its just become confusing and annoying

[david96]

If one downloads the application form 48R THA which is in Thai and English or the 48R (English) it would make it easier to understand what is required from an applicant when they apply for a visa 676.

No one has made reference to the questions on the form when asking for clarification. It would pay to read the application form in full first and then post your comments and enquiries regarding individual question(s).

Extracts from application form 48R THA.

Eg. Part G. Evidence of funds.

Q.29

Q.30

Q.31 The person or people you have listed will need to provide evidence of their ability to provide this support.

Part L. Declaration

Q.41

Signature of applicant.

Date.

Edited January 11, 2008 by david96

[CbrLad]

I was hoping to learn something in this thread

But now its just become confusing and annoying

Sorry if you feel that way, but you know sometimes you need a good debate to get to a positive result, I think we are almost there.

Now what are you confused about? Ask and you might get a straight answer if you are lucky.

But to cut the crap above and to make this easy, this is the process for someone to follow.

Go to this website: http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/tourist/676/index.htm

Download the 48R form. The applicant MUST fill out questions honestly. Make sure they name you and other friends/relo's in Aus at question 18. If you are providing financial and/or accomodation make sure they say that at Q29 and then at Q30 name you and at Q31 indicate the type of support you are providing. If you helped with the application form they should name you at Q35, then answer 36, 37 and 38 as appropriate.

Download the check-list and provide everything that is asks for. For optional information provide what is relivent. All you need to submit is the letter of invitation and if you are paying your finance details, so bank statements, pay slips etc.

The Bangkok Embassy website has some additional information which is what Gburns copied into his first post, it can be found here: http://www.vfs-au.net/forms/Info_Sheet_5_V...lish_July06.pdf The main difference is they also want some evidence showing a relationship between you and the applicant.

In actual fact their page uses a word that I like, that is is someone "supporting" you and your application, that is more correct in the case of a 676 than the word sponsor.

Remember that the applicant is the one who is applying NOT YOU. It is THEIR answers and THEIR intention's the department is looking at. They only care that you know the person and are paying.

Remember if you are 'sponsoring' them you are ONLY "sponsoring" the financial side of their application and giving the applicant a reason to visit aus. So YOU should address those issues and ONLY those issues, everything else is up to the APPLICANT.

The Department is not looking for 3rd party assurances the applicant will abide by their visa conditions. Remember just because (in our case) the applicant is Thai their word is just as good as the word of an aussie.

Simple as 123, if your case is solid and you provide what they ask for then there is no reason why a positive result will not happen. If the case is marginal, then sorry to say regardless of what ever information someone OTHER than the applicant provides (ie you) it probably won't help much anyway.

[gburns57au]

I was hoping to learn something in this thread

But now its just become confusing and annoying

I can see that for the average guy it has....

Let MM, Cbrlad and David96 take the reins here... I am sure that they will do an excellent job. I cant be bothered anymore.

[CbrLad]

I was hoping to learn something in this thread

But now its just become confusing and annoying

I can see that for the average guy it has....

Let MM, Cbrlad and David96 take the reins here... I am sure that they will do an excellent job. I cant be bothered anymore.

Well advising people they are responsible for things they are not responsible for and giving people a false idea of what the application and visa are all about is not a good thing. The DIAC instructions and help sheets are pretty clear I think in what the expectations and responsibilites of each party is. Do as DIAC says, play it their way and provided the case is good then there should be no problems.

The only people who should have any concern are those where the case is not all the strong. Reading the board it seems as if many cannot take an objective view of their 'partners' situtation and see why a case might not be as stong as we think it is. I guess that is called human nature. But proving stuff that isn't needed or asked for or indeed even miss-understanding everyone's roles and responsibilities in the situation doesn't help anyone. Like I said much of your advice although based on experiance seems to be anecdotal and cannot be backed up with hard documentation.

Guess nuff said.

[gburns57au]

My final comment on this thread.

You guys have at various times disputed with me individually...This is gettting tiresome and confusing for others, so it is not serving any purpose but for you guys trying to prove me wrong....when you know that we have agreed on the fundamental points...And that is that while the SD may not be required....it can help weaker applications and especially on the reason to return issue.

Lack of evidence for a reason to return....If you were bringing a girl from Isaan to Oz...she had no money or assets of her own...her employment was a paddy worker or a BG...she had a child that was being looked after by her grandparents...where is her reason to return? She doesnt have one!.....what would you advise ??

You guys can all quote the guidelines to me as much as you want....and you can all quote the requirements and such....I have read them all. You can turn what I say into what you like.....I dont care.

Because in the end....we are dealing with real people with real problems and real fears...They dont all meet the criteria of the average applicant that the websites and guidelines are set down for...They dont understand the gobblydegook language that the Govt sites speak in....all they want is a down to earth explanation of the system so that they and their partners achieve the desired results...

The people that can meet the requirements and can understand the system.....dont need any help....Although, even after the time I have sat here doing what I do here...I still stuffed up on my wifes spouse application....So it is not as cut and dried as you guys seem to think it is.

I was not trained in Immigration....I was not asked to do what I do here...I have put in time doing this purely because I thought I could help...it seems that while this is not good enough for some....It was surely enough for others though who have been helped and achieved their desired results.

I am not going to debate this any further as it has nowhere to go....and now a member has stated that it has totally confused him....so it is now achieving negative results....

I will still condone the use of the Stat Dec to strengthen weak applications especially on the reason to return issues...I will still condone it as a substitute for a letter of invitation IF it addresses the same points as the letter of invitation. I will still suggest a letter only if that is all that is required by the information given.

The advice I give is not wrong....it is just not the advice that you guys would give...you can be as pedantic as you want and argue semantics all night.

My record here and off board speaks for itself....

You want to take it on Cbrlad....just say the word

BTW...sorry if it sounds like I have done a backflip....I just worked a 14 hour day as I did yesterday.....even I get a bit fatigued.

Edited January 11, 2008 by gburns57au

[CbrLad]

My final comment on this thread.

Lack of evidence for a reason to return....If you were bringing a girl from Isaan to Oz...she had no money or assets of her own...her employment was a paddy worker or a BG...she had a child that was being looked after by her grandparents...where is her reason to return? She doesnt have one!.....what would you advise ??

My final comment on this matter too.

In the above example I wouldn't know what to specificaly advise (although in that example there is one possible reason to return) because it would vary from case to case. But what I do know is it is up to the APPLICANT to make the statement as to why they will return, not you as the person who is providing financial support for the trip. You seem to think you writing a stat dec saying they return will convince DIAC that they will, please..... they are not that stupid.... I cannot think of one thing you could say that would make a weak argument stronger.

What you can do is RE-ENFORCE their claims in your letter. For example with my missus her main reason to return is we intend to live in the UK after we marry. So in my letter I explained my current living arrangements, told them how long I would live here for, however all that did was back up the GF's claim, I didn't speak on her behalf though.

I think that is the one of my problems with your method, you seem to think the depatment is looking for assurances from a 3rd party (ie you), you seem to think you can control and speak for the applicant. You cannot. And you method tries to address these issues, which are beyond your control. By all means help the applicant as much as possible. Help them make as stong a case as possible and argue why they will return, but at the end of the day the department will only take notice of THEIR intentions and THEIR situation not YOURS.

Having worked in the public service (not DIAC), I can assure you that for anything to do with the public, there is a set of rules you have to abide by. You are not able to go outside of these rules.

As I have also been saying read the DIAC forms and help sheets carefuly the "sponsors" ONLY role is to pay for the trip THAT IS ALL. SO as 'sponsor' address the issues you have ownership of, support the applicants application by writing a good worded LETTER of invitation (a stat dec does not make ones word any stronger) and help them, but don't take over from them and think you can speak for them or control them if they get here.

Now the one thing I will say is bad with the DIAC advice is it doesn't say what to put in the letter, however the following is from the UK, which on the face of it has similar rules and procedures to us, and is what I have used to construct my letter's. Read what you will into it. I am not suggesting it applies to Australia 100% but it is food for thought!

The following would be helpful.

A letter of sponsorship giving details of your occupation and salary and how you will provide support and accommodation for the applicant. There is no need to have this letter certified (in other words, signed) before a solicitor or commissioner for oaths to confirm it is genuine.

Evidence of your ability to pay for the trip, such as copies of your last six months' bank or building society statements and salary slips. If you receive public funds, the Entry Clearance Officer will need to consider carefully how long you will be able to support other people on your limited means. You will not be able to get extra public funds to support the applicant.

(I really like the last line of the first para)

Full document here: http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pa...d=1006977150088

This next quote from UK rules is also interesting and again it would seem it applies to the 676 visa for Aus too:

Can I give a guarantee?

You may want to give a guarantee that the person whom you are sponsoring will abide by the conditions of his or her stay in the UK and will leave at the end of a specified period. However, such guarantees are not enforceable in UK law and cannot be accepted. This is not a reflection on your integrity as a sponsor, but under the Immigration Rules, it is the visitor who must satisfy the entry clearance officer that he or she qualifies for entry.

Full document here: http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pa...d=1018696644717

Now if only DIAC had something like that for our visa's this whole debate would be redunant.

Right 10-4 over and out.

Edited January 11, 2008 by CbrLad

[Mighty Mouse]

You guys have at various times disputed with me individually......

Graham, unfortunately it seems that you have taken this thread as a personal attack on your ability to advise others. This was never the intention and this point was clearly set out by CbrLad on the previous page.

I regarded our various posts on Stat. Decs. and the exact role of the sponsor, as a debate, nothing more. It was unfortunate that a new thread wasn't first created in order to separate this discussion from the original question asked by the OP. That would have resulted in less confusion being experienced by the poster who was finding it all too confusing to follow.

In the past in this forum when I was actively giving advise to others, I too made many errors. You were always the first to dispute many of the things that I wrote. When proven wrong, I didn't hesitate to acknowledge being corrected. 'To err is human'

I've always believed that it is a good reflection on a persons character to be able to accept criticism, to admit mistakes and to learn from them.

The great Kerry Packer was renowned for asking questions of those seeking to work for him. One of his questions was, "Have you ever been wrong with regard to ....(whatever the job was) Most bright eyed and hopeful job seekers would answer, "No." They never got the job. Packer would only hire those people who have gained strength of experience and knowledge from past their mistakes.

This is a open forum and as such it is here for anybody to post their comments and views. Your contribution to the visa forum over the years, has been applauded by many people, including myself, but no single person is in charge here. Amongst all the brilliant, informative posts, there will always be some disputes, there will always be the need to correct some bad advice, there will always be criticism, but also there will always be the Mods. overseeing the forum to ensure that any disputes etc. are conducted in an acceptable manner.

Your abrupt departure from this thread and some of your parting comments are unfortunate. Let's blame your tiredness.

All the points that needed to be raised, have been raised. As far as sponsorship and Stat. Decs. are concerned, it is now up to others to decide which procedure to follow in supporting a 48R Visa application.

[david96]

Yes Graham you have given good input into the posts, I would agree with you on a TGF status application submit a statutory declaration.

Just for interest when my wife obtained her 676 visa in Thailand I did not submit a SD, only financial info one pay slip.

At the end of her second visit on a 12momth ME She was able to obtain a 6 month visa from DIAC in Australia.

In this case I had to supply financial information again ( 6 months statements from one bank account) and DIAC asked me to supply a SD stating that I would provide all support in line with DIAC requirements. They also wanted proof of an airline ticket out of Australia.

Had no problems. All done within 5 business days from start to finish. But that was my experience, but then the applicant was legally married to me in this case.

[CbrLad]

Yes Graham you have given good input into the posts, I would agree with you on a TGF status application submit a statutory declaration.

Just for interest when my wife obtained her 676 visa in Thailand I did not submit a SD, only financial info one pay slip.

At the end of her second visit on a 12momth ME She was able to obtain a 6 month visa from DIAC in Australia.

In this case I had to supply financial information again ( 6 months statements from one bank account) and DIAC asked me to supply a SD stating that I would provide all support in line with DIAC requirements. They also wanted proof of an airline ticket out of Australia.

Had no problems. All done within 5 business days from start to finish. But that was my experience, but then the applicant was legally married to me in this case.

David, good post youself, it is a good example for me to make one futher point. I will keep this one short because I said I would shut up. Now correct me if I am wrong on the assumption I am going to make here:

Ok first app in Thailand was on 48R form. The applicant provided what was asked for, a stat dec wasn't one of them. Right? Clearly the visa got issued.

2nd app, she applied in Australia. If she applied in Aus then she must have applied for futher stay as a visitor. Right? Must be because you cannot use a 48R onshore. If so then the form used would be the 601, in which case the rules are different:

Here is the form: http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/601.pdf

Refer to page 2 and see what it asks for......... among other things "A return plane ticket and other evidence requested for by the decision maker"

That explains why on the 2nd application it was different. In the 2nd case you were asked to provide something different, it doesn't mean it should have been provided for the first application. The something different was a stat dec addressing a specific request of DIAC, I gather it wasn't a blanket stat dec? I am right that the support they asked you to provide was that of financial and accomodation, but you weren't asked to say they will go home at the end?

Ok maybe I am being pig headed to an extent (and I am not 100% right all the time, I will admit when I am not), but the bottom line is we/the applicant should provide what is asked for. No one should go making assumptions that just because Joe bloggs had to do something different that it is the norm and we should all do it to futher enhance the applicants chances. All the examples I've seen here, ie the one above, trolley's (and one I was sent in a PM) are the exceptions not the rule. And in each case when it was an exception of DIAC they asked for it and told the person what to address. I guess that is the key. I guess the whole problem is when we give advice based on out own personal circumstances we tend to cloud things a little. Maybe I am doing the same, well not maybe I am, because in the case of my GF it was all pretty cut and dry.. But bottom line is DIAC aren't silly and when they want something they will ask, we should never 2nd guess what they want. So provide what they ask for, what they ask for is pretty clear, refer to the form and check-lists if in doubt. If they want something else they will ask. Provide it then, DON'T provide it as a substitute or 2nd guess them. It does no one any favours.

Sorry if this thread has caused confusion. It isn't the intent.

Edited January 12, 2008 by CbrLad

[david96]

ChrLad,

The Statutory Declaration consisted of the following,

"will be prepared to provide all support financial or otherwise to the applicant (name) while in Australia on a 676 visa as required by DIAC from time to time."

(At the time DIAC was DIMA.)

[CbrLad]

ChrLad,

The Statutory Declaration consisted of the following,

"will be prepared to provide all support financial or otherwise to the applicant (name) while in Australia on a 676 visa as required by DIAC from time to time."

(At the time DIAC was DIMA.)

That makes sense (and it is good to see you didn't give assurances they will return, because that isn't a general expectation of DIAC), however as I said it was for the 2nd application, which was an onshore extension, it has different rules and requirements as you have shown and indeed as the application itself shows. There is no need to do that for the first application also as your partner's case showed, indeed the letter of invitation is where you show your willingness to provide this support in the offshore (48R) application. There would also be no need to do as you have done for the extension unless specificaly asked again as your case shows.

Indeed you could put that into a stat dec form and as I said in an early post DIAC will probably read it the same as a the letter of invitation and people would be right. I personaly think that is a missed oportunity to provide written back-up of the applicants application, as a stat dec you must address matters of fact, in a well written letter you can go a little futher without waffiling on. I just don't think the advice of Gburns to provide it as a substitute because it carries more clout with DIAC is sound and the words he used, especialy about giving an assurance the applicant will return is not sound either as it fails to understand the basic role of the sponsor which is ONLY financial. DIAC contrary advice are NOT looking for 3rd party aussrances they will return, they are only interested in the APPLICANTS situation, ie their reason to go, their reasons to return and who is paying. If they want extra assurances etc they will ASK for it.

Use a stat dec to address specific issues that DIAC ask to be adddressed and don't 2nd guess them, each application is DIFFERENT. The only 1 sizes fits all advice people should follow IMO is do EXACTLY what DIAC ask for. Don't 2nd guess them or try and out smart them, it doesn't work and no method has any extra clout or beliveability. When they want something different or extra they will ask, again as shown in this thread. They, in the best interest of the applicant have rules to follow, so play by THEIR rules and requirements. These can easily be found on the application and check-lists.

Edited January 13, 2008 by CbrLad

[david96]

ChrLad,

The Statutory Declaration consisted of the following,

"will be prepared to provide all support financial or otherwise to the applicant (name) while in Australia on a 676 visa as required by DIAC from time to time."

(At the time DIAC was DIMA.)

One should have mentioned,

In the first application in Bangkok for a 676 visa no "letter of invitation" or statutory declaration was supplied.

The applicant (my legal wife) could prove a reason to return and financial support in her own right.

The applicant is reponsible to comply with the visa requirements as in the declaration that is signed after reading part L, question 41. Ref 48R THA.

With the application in Australia my wife (the applicant) did not have this financial information with her so as her husband I was required to supply the stat. dec. as requested by DIAC. (Remember that I am an Australian citizen.)

The airline ticket was extended and the printout was supplied to them, on the fifth business day I received an e-mail to come in and pick up her passport.

Now for TGF status you may well have to supply additional documentation to DIAC as it would depend on what was supplied in the application.

[CbrLad]

ChrLad,

The Statutory Declaration consisted of the following,

"will be prepared to provide all support financial or otherwise to the applicant (name) while in Australia on a 676 visa as required by DIAC from time to time."

(At the time DIAC was DIMA.)

One should have mentioned,

In the first application in Bangkok for a 676 visa no "letter of invitation" or statutory declaration was supplied.

The applicant (my legal wife) could prove a reason to return and financial support in her own right.

The applicant is reponsible to comply with the visa requirements as in the declaration that is signed after reading part L, question 41. Ref 48R THA.

With the application in Australia my wife (the applicant) did not have this financial information with her so as her husband I was required to supply the stat. dec. as requested by DIAC. (Remember that I am an Australian citizen.)

The airline ticket was extended and the printout was supplied to them, on the fifth business day I received an e-mail to come in and pick up her passport.

Now for TGF status you may well have to supply additional documentation to DIAC as it would depend on what was supplied in the application.

Correct as for the last line correct too, but you provide what is asked for when they ask for it.