Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[Danielle]

I've been around reading, I just don't have much to say.

[Arkady]

Parachute journos: look before you leap.

Besides being home to countless noodle-soup carts, coyote dancers and moaning air-hostesses, Thailand is also home to some of the most sensational rumours east of the White House - mostly spread by Westerners over a few too many glasses of the intoxicating type, and by a sensationalist foreign media.Published on February 2, 2008

Let's start with some barstool rumours so terrifying that if you were sane enough, you'd be packing your bags for safer destinations like the Gaza Strip.

Thailand is a country so berserk that if you are cheesed-off with your neighbour, you can, with the assistance of one of Thailand's professional gunmen, and for a fee of Bt5,000, have him instantly shot into his next life.

That menacing-looking tuk-tuk driver who hangs around outside your favourite bar: never get into any kind of conflict with that guy. Take extreme care and caution, as he's probably part of a ruthless criminal gang.

Watch out too for every murdering ex-police officer who is supposed to be serving life behind bars: he has been swapped for a look-alike and is out roaming the streets again.

And don't forget those petite Thai women in Pattaya who are extremely skilled at lifting their tall, overweight rich foreign lovers and tossing them over a hotel balcony.

Geez, Thailand must be one of the most dangerous places in the world! But it really is (for Brits anyway) according to a leading UK tabloid, whose headline read: "With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our government not warn of the dangers faced there?" The article stated that "Thailand may be friendly and engaging, yet its dark side is clearly visible".

And as for the Thais themselves: "they tend to separate the persona they present to the world from their interior character". The article argues its point by offering the statistic of at least 17 Brits being murdered since 2003 - except for Iraq, the highest percentage of any country in the world for Brits brutally slain.

Of course, most foreigners reading this would be quick to point the finger of guilt at Thais. But after doing a bit of research and obtaining the names of those supposedly horrifically murdered, I found the following: there was no news coverage whatsoever for two of the murdered; another two seemed to be obvious cases of manslaughter; and another five were actually murdered by other foreigners. The original statistic for Thai culprits is therefore slashed by half.

I can't say that Thailand doesn't see a high number of Westerners getting knocked-off, because it does. But for a change, I'd like the Western media, when reporting these kind of statistics, to mention the quite obvious fact that Thailand doesn't always attract the nicest kind of foreigner. It attracts a lot of foreign criminals. Perhaps the British government ought to put out a warning stating that, too.

One murder case (which could legally be considered manslaughter) was the much publicised recent shooting by a police officer of two North American tourists in Mae Hong Son province. One tourist died while the other survived. Even though it was later confirmed by tens of foreign witnesses living in the area that the surviving woman had a well-known history of violent drunken behaviour - including punching police officers - the foreign media stuck to its Thai-bashing reports. Even though the female victim went on to change her account of events preceding the shooting, the foreign press adhered to the original sensationalised (and perhaps fabricated) reports that she was shot for no reason whatsoever by the drunk policeman. The cop, who had a history of violence, fled the scene after the shooting.

Sure, I pity the murdered guy in Pai district (and his family) and hope that the officer spends time incarcerated for this hideous crime. But I wish that the foreign media wouldn't jump to sensational conclusions every time something like this happens. They immediately compared the crime in Pai to the awful backpacker-killing cop in Kanchanburi a few years ago. The media should be advised instead to wait for clearer and more accurate firsthand reports before setting up the gallows and taking Thailand to the cleaners.

Then there's the other Western media favourite: Thailand's spicy nightlife. Some foreigners may conclude that the true fault behind sensationalist reports on this subject is Thailand's own - due to governments and law-enforcers constantly turning a blind-eye to illegal goings-on. Yet, it could be argued that sensationalist foreign reports just make the problem worse.

Take a recent Canadian documentary by an "award-winning" journalist from Global BC. According to this enlightened reporter, after two weeks of intensive undercover research, it was found that "most of them [naughty show bars in two areas in the Silom and Sukhumvit districts in Bangkok] operate under prison-like conditions". At these venues "a 16-year-old can be had for Bt600 a time" and "under-aged girls are numbered like cattle". Pattaya is no better according to the reporter: "Pre-pubescents can be found at every street corner", "there are many hotels that allow you to rape children", and "paedophiles who get caught can just bribe their way out".

This documentary, when posted on YouTube, received so many complaints that it was finally pulled off the site.

I am certainly not saying that this kind of activity does not go on, because it does, but sensationalist reporting like this is only going to encourage more of the worst kind of tourist to visit Thailand.

I'll admit, and Thais will admit, that Thailand has a very high murder rate - which includes a fair number of Westerners. Thailand's statistics, though, don't differentiate between murder charges and murder convictions.

I feel it unfair, however, that the foreign media continues, as it has been doing for decades, to report on this in a sensational and sometimes fabricated way. Unfortunately, this sensationalism is very similar to that purveyed by some of the foreign gossip-mongers here, who believe everything they read and hear.

And finally, I believe it is more than possible that there is a strong connection between those kind of people and foreign reporters looking for a sensational story.

Stephen Cleary is the co-founder of www.thai-blogs.com.

The Nation

[Arkady]

The article quoted in my post above by Stephen Cleary is printed in today's The Nation as an opinion piece. The information is in the post but it is rather inbedded.

[Stephen Cleary]

As is the norm, here is the link:

Parachute Journos: Look Before You Leap

Thanks to thaivisa/forums for the link about the Canadian documentary.

[Tony Clifton]

The article quoted in my post above by Stephen Cleary is printed in today's The Nation as an opinion piece. The information is in the post but it is rather inbedded.

Thai protectionism at it's best from a farang. I'll bet he wears fisherman's pants anywhere he goes.

[Claymore]

The article quoted in my post above by Stephen Cleary is printed in today's The Nation as an opinion piece. The information is in the post but it is rather inbedded.

Thai protectionism at it's best from a farang. I'll bet he wears fisherman's pants anywhere he goes.

Hilarious. This guy really doesn't get it does he? Shows how warped you can get living on the internet and believing your opinions there have some greater value in the outside world.

[sabaijai]

Tony Clifton and Claymore, you could be a lot more convincing if you addressed the issues in Cleary's op-ed rather than taking the easy way out with ad hominem.

I'm back in Pai. Here the case is still fresh news, still a ready topic for daily discussion. Usually when I bring up the outsider point of view that people here fear police reprisal if they say what they know or saw, people here find it amusing.

One new bit of information, coming from the stage manager for the Carabao concert in Pai last year, was that the person who fired a warning shot there was Royal Thai Army, and part of Add Carabao's personal entourage.

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

[sabaijai]

It seems that when you cannot push your viewpoints with relevant facts, you then resort to tedious, pedantic tangents that could be as relevant to this thread as it would be to an internecine pick-pocket child gang in Madagascar. When that fails, you then resort to name calling and race-baiting. But meanwhile, nothing which you have uttered about me is true or factual, but everything which you attempt to categorize as a slur has been amply substantiated on this thread.

It is apparent that you just simply don't know as much as others on this issue, and can't substantiate anything that you claim to know of any relevance.

If you need to have a hissy fit about it, then perhaps you should leave.

*Thanks for fixing your font situation, though.

And you resort to ad hominem. I know you can do better, Kat

[Claymore]

Tony Clifton and Claymore, you could be a lot more convincing if you addressed the issues in Cleary's op-ed rather than taking the easy way out with ad hominem.

I'm back in Pai. Here the case is still fresh news, still a ready topic for daily discussion. Usually when I bring up the outsider point of view that people here fear police reprisal if they say what they know or saw, people here find it amusing.

One new bit of information, coming from the stage manager for the Carabao concert in Pai last year, was that the person who fired a warning shot there was Royal Thai Army, and part of Add Carabao's personal entourage.

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

I believe an reply is already there. Andrew Drummond I understand is in Pai btw. Have u seen him? Bit difficult to be incognito there I think. U shd get together!!!

[Claymore]

I disagree, this thread should be kept alive so that this shooting is NOT forgotten or swept under the carpet and we can hear updates.

IME, too often, bad/criminal things are reported on TV and in the Thai Press and then they are not followed up.

Let's keep it in the open and in peoples' minds.

Thank you.

I would agree Andiamo. There will be the occasional update and there is value in keeping this thread open. I have no seen Danielle online for a while. Since she is related to Leo, I was hopeful that she might have more information about the autopsy conducted on him in Calgary. We also have not seen or heard about the toxicology report for both shooting victims and Sgt. Uthai. Eventually that report will have to come out, whether at trial or at a hearing to determine if Uthai can remain on the police force. I would also suggest that we periodically conduct a letter-writing campaign to the "Bangkok Post" and the "Nation" to keep this case on their radar screens. I would also ask for a little more decorum from some of the posters. No need to get personal here.

Copies of both autopsies are in Thailand with Dr. Pornthip

[Claymore]

Look for long hair and goatee beard

[Claymore]

Look for long hair and goatee beard

Sorry the above was for Sabaijai - think this is AD's preferred cover. But as its Pai maybe dreadlocks!

[Claymore]

Tony Clifton and Claymore, you could be a lot more convincing if you addressed the issues in Cleary's op-ed rather than taking the easy way out with ad hominem.

I'm back in Pai. Here the case is still fresh news, still a ready topic for daily discussion. Usually when I bring up the outsider point of view that people here fear police reprisal if they say what they know or saw, people here find it amusing.

One new bit of information, coming from the stage manager for the Carabao concert in Pai last year, was that the person who fired a warning shot there was Royal Thai Army, and part of Add Carabao's personal entourage.

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

So here in true ThaiVisa style is a cut and slash job on Mr.Cleary’s article

]Parachute journos: look before you leap

Besides being home to countless noodle-soup carts, coyote dancers and moaning air-hostesses, Thailand is also home to some of the most sensational rumours east of the White House - mostly spread by Westerners over a few too many glasses of the intoxicating type, and by a sensationalist foreign media.

(Yes westerners do gossip in the pub)

Let's start with some barstool rumours so terrifying that if you were sane enough, you'd be packing your bags for safer destinations like the Gaza Strip.

Thailand is a country so berserk that if you are cheesed-off with your neighbour, you can, with the assistance of one of Thailand's professional gunmen, and for a fee of Bt5,000, have him instantly shot into his next life.

(Bar story but of course, true once, but the price has risen quite dramatically)

That menacing-looking tuk-tuk driver who hangs around outside your favourite bar: never get into any kind of conflict with that guy. Take extreme care and caution, as he's probably part of a ruthless criminal gang.

(Colour or author’s imagination)

Watch out too for every murdering ex-police officer who is supposed to be serving life behind bars: he has been swapped for a look-alike and is out roaming the streets again.

(Bar and internet blog story on ThaiVisa. Re-Sergeant Wisetsingh. No substance to it. Never published)

And don't forget those petite Thai women in Pattaya who are extremely skilled at lifting their tall, overweight rich foreign lovers and tossing them over a hotel balcony.

(bar and internet blog story with author’s rich colour)

Geez, Thailand must be one of the most dangerous places in the world! But it really is (for Brits anyway) according to a leading UK tabloid, whose headline read: "With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our government not warn of the dangers faced there?" The article stated that "Thailand may be friendly and engaging, yet its dark side is clearly visible".

The UK tabloid was ‘The Independent’.

And as for the Thais themselves: "they tend to separate the persona they present to the world from their interior character".

Quite a good deduction by the newspaper. Its called jai yen. Not showing bad emotions.

The article argues its point by offering the statistic of at least 17 Brits being murdered since 2003 - except for Iraq, the highest percentage of any country in the world for Brits brutally slain.

A true statistic offered by the Independent.

Of course, most foreigners reading this would be quick to point the finger of guilt at Thais.

Why? The author did not solely blame the Thais.

But after doing a bit of research and obtaining the names of those supposedly horrifically murdered, I found the following: there was no news coverage whatsoever for two of the murdered; another two seemed to be obvious cases of manslaughter; and another five were actually murdered by other foreigners. The original statistic for Thai culprits is therefore slashed by half.

Mr. Clearly is very free with his term ‘obvious cases of manslaughter’. I can feel this is going to come up again . On what basis, what he has dragged off the internet from Suphan Buri?

I can't say that Thailand doesn't see a high number of Westerners getting knocked-off, because it does.

Oh I see now.

But for a change, I'd like the Western media, when reporting these kind of statistics, to mention the quite obvious fact that Thailand doesn't always attract the nicest kind of foreigner. It attracts a lot of foreign criminals.

Seems a bit out of touch here. Thailand is world famous for the type of tourists who come here. Some characters make British comedy shows.

Perhaps the British government ought to put out a warning stating that, too.

One murder case (which could legally be considered manslaughter) was the much publicised recent shooting by a police officer of two North American tourists in Mae Hong Son province. One tourist died while the other survived.

Ah here comes the manslaughter again. No such charge in Thailand.

Even though it was later confirmed by tens of foreign witnesses living in the area that the surviving woman had a well-known history of violent drunken behaviour - including punching police officers

Witnesses of course whom Cleary has interviewed. Tens I take means more than 20.

the foreign media stuck to its Thai-bashing reports.

I have not seen one Thai bashing report.

Even though the female victim went on to change her account of events preceding the shooting, the foreign press adhered to the original sensationalised (and perhaps fabricated) reports that she was shot for no reason whatsoever by the drunk policeman.

What sensationalised or perhaps fabricated reports is he talking about in the foreign press. One please. Has Cleary interviewed the girl. Those who have say she never changed her story.

The cop, who had a history of violence, fled the scene after the shooting.

Well he did flee the scene. Nobody has said he had a history of violence to my knowledge, but one never knows.

Sure, I pity the murdered guy in Pai district (and his family)

Yes? You’ve really cheered up the family now.

and hope that the officer spends time incarcerated for this hideous crime. But I wish that the foreign media wouldn't jump to sensational conclusions every time something like this happens.

What conclusions. You’re imagined ones?

They immediately compared the crime in Pai to the awful backpacker-killing cop in Kanchanburi a few years ago. The media should be advised instead to wait for clearer and more accurate firsthand reports before setting up the gallows and taking Thailand to the cleaners.

That comparison was not drawn in the foreign press by by Andrew Drummond in Thailand.There are similarities.

Thai policeman interviews in a dispute involving unarmed farangs. Policeman shoots one of them and then the other to ensure no witnesses. Both young couples aged 24. Policeman claims he was attacked. Policeman hits vital parts of the body in both cases. Policeman runs away. Case handled by his mates. Surrender handled by his mates. In both cases foreign woman is described as ‘loose’.

Then there's the other Western media favourite: Thailand's spicy nightlife. Some foreigners may conclude that the true fault behind sensationalist reports on this subject is Thailand's own - due to governments and law-enforcers constantly turning a blind-eye to illegal goings-on.

Can’t argue with that. But police need the cash you know. Lets give them a break.

Yet, it could be argued that sensationalist foreign reports just make the problem worse.

Well of course they do. People who read about sex destinations go to them.

One Pattaya farang even promoted his particular short-service bar by putting up a poster ‘As advertised in the News of the World’.

Take a recent Canadian documentary by an "award-winning" journalist from Global BC. According to this enlightened reporter, after two weeks of intensive undercover research, it was found that "most of them [naughty show bars in two areas in the Silom and Sukhumvit districts in Bangkok] operate under prison-like conditions". At these venues "a 16-year-old can be had for Bt600 a time" and "under-aged girls are numbered like cattle". Pattaya is no better according to the reporter: "Pre-pubescents can be found at every street corner", "there are many hotels that allow you to rape children", and "paedophiles who get caught can just bribe their way out".

Bar fines are 600 baht. Girls are numbered. There are few under-aged girls but they do exist.

Sukhumvit go-go bars do not pay the girls unless they go out a minimum number times per month. Not prison but I can understand the reporters viewpoint.

Hotels who allow children to meet farangs. Quiet True. Recent recorded case of Canadian arrested in one such hotel with a minor.

Paedophiles who can bribe themselves out. True. Many cases

.

This documentary, when posted on YouTube, received so many complaints that it was finally pulled off the site.

No knowledge.

I am certainly not saying that this kind of activity does not go on, because it does,

Thank you. So what are you complaining about?

but sensationalist reporting like this is only going to encourage more of the worst kind of tourist to visit Thailand.

Providing more and more sexual venues will do too.

I'll admit, and Thais will admit, that Thailand has a very high murder rate - which includes a fair number of Westerners. Thailand's statistics, though, don't differentiate between murder charges and murder convictions.

Last sentence is irrelevant without giving us the murder statistics. Anyway true murder statistics have got nothing to do with the charges or convictions. It’s to do with bodies.

I feel it unfair, however, that the foreign media continues, as it has been doing for decades, to report on this in a sensational and sometimes fabricated way.

Stop whining. So how should the foreign media report murders by police on tourists?

Unfortunately, this sensationalism is very similar to that purveyed by some of the foreign gossip-mongers here, who believe everything they read and hear.

And finally, I believe it is more than possible that there is a strong connection between those kind of people and foreign reporters looking for a sensational story.

Now Mr. Cleary is clearly out to lunch and I believe there may be a direct connection with what he in Suphan Buri is reading in internet blogs from bar-stool farangs to his op-ed article in ‘The Nation’.

[kat]

The article quoted above offers nothing beyond a summary of the writer's opinions. He even makes statements about the legal sentencing of the case before the investigation has been concluded. So, he is no different from the low-grade articles or gossiping foreigners of which he complains, except that he apparently makes a living off of it.

[kat]

It seems that when you cannot push your viewpoints with relevant facts, you then resort to tedious, pedantic tangents that could be as relevant to this thread as it would be to an internecine pick-pocket child gang in Madagascar. When that fails, you then resort to name calling and race-baiting. But meanwhile, nothing which you have uttered about me is true or factual, but everything which you attempt to categorize as a slur has been amply substantiated on this thread.

It is apparent that you just simply don't know as much as others on this issue, and can't substantiate anything that you claim to know of any relevance.

If you need to have a hissy fit about it, then perhaps you should leave.

*Thanks for fixing your font situation, though.

And you resort to ad hominem. I know you can do better, Kat

Sorry Sabaijai, but I don't think your view of things is fairly balanced here. I was responding to an attack on MY character, and everything that I summed up is easily identified on prior posts.

[kat]

I disagree, this thread should be kept alive so that this shooting is NOT forgotten or swept under the carpet and we can hear updates.

IME, too often, bad/criminal things are reported on TV and in the Thai Press and then they are not followed up.

Let's keep it in the open and in peoples' minds.

Thank you.

I would agree Andiamo. There will be the occasional update and there is value in keeping this thread open. I have no seen Danielle online for a while. Since she is related to Leo, I was hopeful that she might have more information about the autopsy conducted on him in Calgary. We also have not seen or heard about the toxicology report for both shooting victims and Sgt. Uthai. Eventually that report will have to come out, whether at trial or at a hearing to determine if Uthai can remain on the police force. I would also suggest that we periodically conduct a letter-writing campaign to the "Bangkok Post" and the "Nation" to keep this case on their radar screens. I would also ask for a little more decorum from some of the posters. No need to get personal here.

Copies of both autopsies are in Thailand with Dr. Pornthip

Getting back to the topic of this thread. I hope the above statement is true. I think we will definitely begin to see reliable and credible statements about this case once she is involved on this end.

[Foggy Bottom]

The article quoted above offers nothing beyond a summary of the writer's opinions. He even makes statements about the legal sentencing of the case before the investigation has been concluded. So, he is no different from the low-grade articles or gossiping foreigners of which he complains, except that he apparently makes a living off of it.

So Kat (genuine question) which is the smarter - the sensationalist hack who gets paid for what they write, and a visa and work permit from doing so, with a legal loophole of only having to pay tax on 20K baht per month rather than the 60K for most western nationals .....

.... or the sensationalist bar room analysts who post on TV without payment, don't get a visa or workpermit from it, and if not paying tax, will have to prove a larger income or savings than a registered journalist, maybe even paying their tax in the form of transport costs to the border every 30 days?

[kat]

I feel that it is a silly and irrelevant question to this thread. I have no interest in catering to the vanities of either group.

[taxexile]

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

she must be inconsolable with grief for her murdered boyfriend

[farang prince]

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

she must be inconsolable with grief for her murdered boyfriend

If the report is true (and I stress IF it is true), then she obviously is not in great fear of her life in Thailand.

[Claymore]

The article quoted above offers nothing beyond a summary of the writer's opinions. He even makes statements about the legal sentencing of the case before the investigation has been concluded. So, he is no different from the low-grade articles or gossiping foreigners of which he complains, except that he apparently makes a living off of it.

So Kat (genuine question) which is the smarter - the sensationalist hack who gets paid for what they write, and a visa and work permit from doing so, with a legal loophole of only having to pay tax on 20K baht per month rather than the 60K for most western nationals .....

.... or the sensationalist bar room analysts who post on TV without payment, don't get a visa or workpermit from it, and if not paying tax, will have to prove a larger income or savings than a registered journalist, maybe even paying their tax in the form of transport costs to the border every 30 days?

I'd put my money on the guy who knows what he is doing, has spoken to the witnesses, the THRC and the DSI and does'nt rely on his information from an internet rant.

[sabaijai]

Tony Clifton and Claymore, you could be a lot more convincing if you addressed the issues in Cleary's op-ed rather than taking the easy way out with ad hominem.

I'm back in Pai. Here the case is still fresh news, still a ready topic for daily discussion. Usually when I bring up the outsider point of view that people here fear police reprisal if they say what they know or saw, people here find it amusing.

One new bit of information, coming from the stage manager for the Carabao concert in Pai last year, was that the person who fired a warning shot there was Royal Thai Army, and part of Add Carabao's personal entourage.

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

I believe an reply is already there. Andrew Drummond I understand is in Pai btw. Have u seen him? Bit difficult to be incognito there I think. U shd get together!!!

I've not seen Andrew here in Pai, and we know each other (he used to phone a colleague in CM every so often asking 'Any dead Brits?' and we met on another high-profile murder case in Thailand seven years ago), so am a bit surprised I've not bumped into him at the usual places one would expect to see a reporter on this case. Nor have any of my contacts mentioned seeing him. But Pai is pretty crowded this weekend, he could easily slip around unnoticed.

[Claymore]

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

she must be inconsolable with grief for her murdered boyfriend

If the report is true (and I stress IF it is true), then she obviously is not in great fear of her life in Thailand.

Non sequitur here. She is in Chiang Mai not Pai. Obviously some folks would like to see this girl on her death bed. The hospital is no safer than a Reggae disco btw. People knew where she was. Now they have to rely on bloggers to tell them. These reports will invariably be late and inaccurate.

If u liked Reggae music and were fit enough to do wouldn't you. Personally I can leave it, with the exception of a couple of Bob Marley numbers

[farang prince]

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

she must be inconsolable with grief for her murdered boyfriend

If the report is true (and I stress IF it is true), then she obviously is not in great fear of her life in Thailand.

Non sequitur here. She is in Chiang Mai not Pai. Obviously some folks would like to see this girl on her death bed. The hospital is no safer than a Reggae disco btw. People knew where she was. Now they have to rely on bloggers to tell them. These reports will invariably be late and inaccurate.

If u liked Reggae music and were fit enough to do wouldn't you. Personally I can leave it, with the exception of a couple of Bob Marley numbers

Sorry, no non sequitar here at all. I realize that she is in Chiang Mai. But if you believe the theories of many posters, she is not safe any where in Thailand...the police will gun her down on sight. So I'm not buying your shallow explanation. If you feel endangered, you will get out of the country ASAP. So why is she still here?

[sabaijai]

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

she must be inconsolable with grief for her murdered boyfriend

If the report is true (and I stress IF it is true), then she obviously is not in great fear of her life in Thailand.

I am the source for that story, ie, I saw her there myself.

BTW yesterday a lawyer in CM who successfully sued the Thai police force in a similar shooting case (victim was Thai, however) and won millions of baht for his client told me that he offered his services to Carly, through an intermediary, and she turned him down. He says she didn't seem to care, but she may have had other reasons.

[Claymore]

The article quoted above offers nothing beyond a summary of the writer's opinions. He even makes statements about the legal sentencing of the case before the investigation has been concluded. So, he is no different from the low-grade articles or gossiping foreigners of which he complains, except that he apparently makes a living off of it.

So Kat (genuine question) which is the smarter - the sensationalist hack who gets paid for what they write, and a visa and work permit from doing so, with a legal loophole of only having to pay tax on 20K baht per month rather than the 60K for most western nationals .....

.... or the sensationalist bar room analysts who post on TV without payment, don't get a visa or workpermit from it, and if not paying tax, will have to prove a larger income or savings than a registered journalist, maybe even paying their tax in the form of transport costs to the border every 30 days?

And I guess the guy who gets paid gets paid because he knows what he is doing. Guess he has got a work permit because the Ministry of Foreign Affairs know what he is doing. What he pays in tax is whatever everbody else does unless the writer know different which of course he doesnt.

Heaven forbid the day when we have to pay for stuff we read here!

[sabaijai]

It seems that when you cannot push your viewpoints with relevant facts, you then resort to tedious, pedantic tangents that could be as relevant to this thread as it would be to an internecine pick-pocket child gang in Madagascar. When that fails, you then resort to name calling and race-baiting. But meanwhile, nothing which you have uttered about me is true or factual, but everything which you attempt to categorize as a slur has been amply substantiated on this thread.

It is apparent that you just simply don't know as much as others on this issue, and can't substantiate anything that you claim to know of any relevance.

If you need to have a hissy fit about it, then perhaps you should leave.

*Thanks for fixing your font situation, though.

And you resort to ad hominem. I know you can do better, Kat

Sorry Sabaijai, but I don't think your view of things is fairly balanced here. I was responding to an attack on MY character, and everything that I summed up is easily identified on prior posts.

AH for AH, ie, a flame for a flame, doesn't make things any cooler.

Everyone has their bias, Kat, and that's fine, but let's all try to stick with the facts as we think we know them, and add our opinions -- to whatever degree they may be biased -- as we desire, without attacking other posters.

[Claymore]

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

she must be inconsolable with grief for her murdered boyfriend

If the report is true (and I stress IF it is true), then she obviously is not in great fear of her life in Thailand.

Non sequitur here. She is in Chiang Mai not Pai. Obviously some folks would like to see this girl on her death bed. The hospital is no safer than a Reggae disco btw. People knew where she was. Now they have to rely on bloggers to tell them. These reports will invariably be late and inaccurate.

If u liked Reggae music and were fit enough to do wouldn't you. Personally I can leave it, with the exception of a couple of Bob Marley numbers

Sorry, no non sequitar here at all. I realize that she is in Chiang Mai. But if you believe the theories of many posters, she is not safe any where in Thailand...the police will gun her down on sight. So I'm not buying your shallow explanation. If you feel endangered, you will get out of the country ASAP. So why is she still here?

I dont believe the theories of many of the posters. Why is she not safe anywhere in Thailand? Since she expressed her fears she has been looked after by the DSI and Thai Human Rights Commission. It would be a foolish person who went for her and very difficult now this is high profile. The weak link will be her Thai boyfriend who is also being assisted. Her biggest threat would appear to be from malicious and opinionated internet bloggers. I'm not counting you btw.

[Claymore]

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

she must be inconsolable with grief for her murdered boyfriend

If the report is true (and I stress IF it is true), then she obviously is not in great fear of her life in Thailand.

I am the source for that story, ie, I saw her there myself.

BTW yesterday a lawyer in CM who successfully sued the Thai police force in a similar shooting case (victim was Thai, however) and won millions of baht for his client told me that he offered his services to Carly, through an intermediary, and she turned him down. He says she didn't seem to care, but she may have had other reasons.

Indeed she did have other reasons. She is already being take care of. U like reggae too I guess.

[Claymore]

BTW Carly is out of the hospital. She was seen two nights ago drinking at Roots Rock Reggae in Chiang Mai with a handful of Thai and farang friends.

she must be inconsolable with grief for her murdered boyfriend

If the report is true (and I stress IF it is true), then she obviously is not in great fear of her life in Thailand.

I am the source for that story, ie, I saw her there myself.

BTW yesterday a lawyer in CM who successfully sued the Thai police force in a similar shooting case (victim was Thai, however) and won millions of baht for his client told me that he offered his services to Carly, through an intermediary, and she turned him down. He says she didn't seem to care, but she may have had other reasons.

Thought you were in Pai? R u using the new air link?