Dowry In Rural Issan

[rick75]

Bergen to say that one should not judge people by there past is a little simple, our past is what has shaped us into the people we are now. If I had worked as a prostitue I am sure that i would have different outlook on life when it comes to women. It would be harder to not treat current partners as the commodity that they were to me in a past life would be one example. I am not throwing all bar girls in one lump here but seriously they have been schooled in a similar way they know how to get what they want from men, whatever it may be.

[Boo]

also, you will be pushed to disagree that for an elder western man or women to settle down in Thailand would be a better option than to spend their later years in the west - where their children, chidren in laws are busy getting on with their own lives and there is no sense of comunity as there is in Asia. This is the point that I was trying to make. I was no trying to say that everyone that retires is an invlalid. I was just saying that the ones that are are better taken care of.

There is plenty of community & family connection in the west (well in my expereince of my freinds & within my own family) as there is in any family I have seen in thailand. Don't lump all western families into one size fits all mould, there is plenty family support here, community too. Just because the children aren't expected and or need to break their backs (or lie on them) to support their parents monetairly & just as we don't expect our parents to spend their formative years raisign ours kids doesn't mean we dont' have just as strong & close relationships as thai families.

Do a search on how many orphanages there are or some some of the conditions that elderly people are living in with their families. it's not all perfect in LOS either.

[bergen]

Bergen to say that one should not judge people by there past is a little simple, our past is what has shaped us into the people we are now. If I had worked as a prostitue I am sure that i would have different outlook on life when it comes to women. It would be harder to not treat current partners as the commodity that they were to me in a past life would be one example. I am not throwing all bar girls in one lump here but seriously they have been schooled in a similar way they know how to get what they want from men, whatever it may be.

To judge people by their past, is anyone's choice........................

However more people may have luck .........if consentrating on the future

[Geekfreaklover]

Do a search on how many orphanages there are or some some of the conditions that elderly people are living in with their families. it's not all perfect in LOS either.

No far from it. It is not perfect, in Thailand because the government, by and large, do not step in a practical way to support those that can not support themselves. That is where, in most cases, the Thai family steps in.

I don't have any figures to use, but form general observations of living in asia for most of my adult life, it seems to me that elder genertations are respected and looked after by younger generations more so than the western family unit. This is on a general basis. Obviosly case by case all sorts of situations occur. If you look at the thai language it is a good indication of how elders are respected.

Without government support countries in south east asia rely to a certain extent on support from NGO charity organisations, supported mainly by big business tax write-offs, Religious groups and the conspircy theologians would say, overseas intelligence organisations..Burma, Cambodia... But that is a different topic.

But i would argue that familes in Thailand are more compact and more supporative than their western counterparts. But the government social system here needs a major boast into the 21st century to get anywhere near he social welfare system in the west. I doubt i will see it in my lifetime.

What every country needs is a blance between government support and family support.

.

Edited September 26, 2008 by Geekfreaklover

[runker]

ZERO, my wife was a school teacher and her father had passed away, she was living with her mother at the time before we married. In the 20 plus years we have been married I can say we may have sent the family a total of maybe $10000. They know we have our own bills to deal with and know my wife isn't a push over when it comes to handing out money. In fact what we did loan out was paid back by her brother. The gifts for the holidays and helping a student pay for school I don't count.

When and we move the Thailand my wife and I will be living on the other side of the country, far far away.

[soihok]

I think all should stop categorizing girls by their past or present life.

There are good girls, and there are not so good girls.

It really does'nt matter where they come from, or what they did before...........................

and ditto goes with the men.

What a great statement.

I was a real git and not worthy of anything good that any girl did for me about 7 years ago.

I had many girls on the go and was a pig to them all(from the UK to the Philippines,Thailand and Africa).

I met my wife in Pattaya..............

We are the happiest people on earth.we have two lovely daughters and I work my ass off for us all.

In fact,if this girl had n,t have come into my life I would probably be in the UK now.

And that is a very sad thought.

If you judge a book by the cover you are sure to lose.

With regards to Sinsod...I paid for a house............which is now our home ......Thanks

Her folks are great by the way, we just went away together ,,the first time her brother and his family had seen the sea.

Top people.......Thailand still holds family values,,,something that (I think) we have lost in the West.

Chris

[soihok]

Have to say that this was my choice and the family never (and up to now)pushed me for money or such like.

My folks in law are really nice people and I feel so lucky that they dont look to me for their benefit.

They find joy in the fact that their daughter has two beautiful girls and that they are(all) well looked after.

I really do feel sorry for people who do get taken for a ride by Thai people who are only interested in greed.

Edited September 26, 2008 by soihok

[philstone]

To me, a Thai style wedding without a sinsod is like a farang-style wedding without a wedding ring.

I fully respect your point of view.

Sinsot is a Thai custom, practiced traditionally between Thais. It is only in recent years that there have been large numbers of thai/farang marriages. Sinsot is not a farang custom, so at best the Thais should meet us halfway. But since a farang usually can offer far more to the Thai wife than a Thai man ever can ( a decent home from day 1 as a starter), this should cancel out the required dowry. The girls family should be delighted that their daughter has scored a big lift-up in her life. That must give them a huge amount of "face"

Every Thai/Thai wedding in my locality in recent years has necessitated a massive loan being needed to pay the dowry, (with monthly interest of between 5% and 20%... Yes 20% a month!) which is a millstone around the newlyweds necks for many years. What chance do they have?

As I have previously -time to bin this tradition, and get real.

Would we give the 3 month salary engagement ring which is now traditional in the west (I am certain it used to be 1 month but De Beer's marketing campaign has changed since the 80's)?

Calculating this I reckon my sin sod would be a fraction of this

I could buy another decent watch with the difference - the IWC Da Vinci would be my engagement "Ring"

If you marry in West and give 3 times a months salary for ring it is probably at least 2 times the papa salary.

So you should give 3 times papa and mama salary. To me that works out to no more than 9,000 baht. Unless they are pimps.

[473geo]

Everybody on Thai visa could learn a great deal from reading the last 10 posts here...a genuine mixture of eloquent understanding, compassion, and intelligent comments - well done guys - posting without the associated bitching etc is a pleasure to read.

[Dave the Dude]

I think all should stop categorizing girls by their past or present life.

There are good girls, and there are not so good girls.

It really does'nt matter where they come from, or what they did before...........................

and ditto goes with the men.

What a great statement.

I was a real git and not worthy of anything good that any girl did for me about 7 years ago.

I had many girls on the go and was a pig to them all(from the UK to the Philippines,Thailand and Africa).

I met my wife in Pattaya..............

We are the happiest people on earth.we have two lovely daughters and I work my ass off for us all.

In fact,if this girl had n,t have come into my life I would probably be in the UK now.

And that is a very sad thought.

If you judge a book by the cover you are sure to lose.

With regards to Sinsod...I paid for a house............which is now our home ......Thanks

Her folks are great by the way, we just went away together ,,the first time her brother and his family had seen the sea.

Top people.......Thailand still holds family values,,,something that (I think) we have lost in the West.

Chris

Good on yer Chris

It makes a change hearing from someone on here who is happy with their 'lot'. I feel the same way as you (except I have never been a'pig' ). I wish I had a quid for every time my wife has asked me "why does everyone like you?". My standard reply is "Cos I'm nothing special but very, very happy"

Dave

[samuibeachcomber]

I will be receiving SinSod from my Thai man when we do the traditional ceremony in January. Although neither of us have previously married we are a bit older than most (mid-30s) and have been living together for a while, so the amount will be modest, somewhere around the 200k mark. Although his parents were heavily involved in the negotiation of the amount (MIL wanted it to be much higher ) we will actually provide the cash on the day. They can load it up on the trays and return it to us in style and impress all the neighbours. They get to keep their status in the community and we get to keep our money. After all, it wouldn't be an auspicious start to bankrupt the in-laws.

Does that mean a farang man could provide 3,000,000 baht on the day & get it back sneakaly at the end of the reception???..3mil would definatly give the family good face...

but would you actually get it back?

[thairookie]

Also, the term 'love' to me is defined VERY DIFFERENTLY in Thailand than in the West. I've found most Thai women don't 'fall in love' the way Western women do. Instead, it's a feeling that grows over time as the man provides support for the wife/family over time. Only by helping the wife's family over time (starting with sinsod) does the Thai wife understand/realize how much the man loves her and she returns that love in kind.

Your observation is definitely spot on. However, I'd like to add that it's true only because the Thai women have had double standards with the way the term "love" is defined. Thai women do fall in love "pretty fast" in pretty much the same manner as Western women, but only with Thai men. Thai women will talk bad about Thai men, that they're lazy and irresponsible etc. They complain, but at the same time they willingly toll their fragile bodies under the scorching afternoon heat to help make end meets. Thai women love without asking for any in return, but the Thai men continue to lace around and spend more than they earn.

It's only with Farangs and Tangchak that they Thai women would have you believe that marriage is a union of two families, and in order to integrate into their families, the Farang or Tangchak husbands would have to "support" the Baan. If only they had applied the principles onto their Thai boyfriends, you wouldn't be witnessing so many single parents and jerks around.

The poorer Thais have a "crutch mentality" and this not helped by the discriminating policies of the Rattabaan. I had a Thai local guide who brought me to Khao Yai National Park. He paid 40 baht as official entrance fee; I paid 400 baht. When I related this incident to my Thai acquaintances, they told me it was only right because "Farangs and Tangchaks are rich". That was their justification. It's not the Thais who are privileged and asked to pay less; it's the Farangs and Tangchaks who are "penalized" for being rich.

The double standards will continue. We can continue to kid ourselves by thinking that if we work hard and shower the Thai women with financial support and love, eventually they will reciprocate because it's part of the culture that Thai women are "shy" and "slow" when expressing their love and emotions. At least we don't feel stupid by thinking along that line. It's a cleverly contrived "culture" that the Thai women would like you to believe in the way it's presented as a deep-rooted culture. In the same way that we don't feel stupid thinking in that direction, it also goes a long way to allaying their fear of "losing face" while families and relatives continue to live off their more affluent Farang relatives.

Of course there are always exceptions. It's an observation that by no means defines "every" Thai woman. And you should continue to believe that while the facts may be similar, your encounter is more likely the exception. My advice is believe in anything that makes you feel good.

Edited September 29, 2008 by thairookie

[coventry]

My advice is believe in anything that makes you feel good.

Does that include booze, drugs, etc ? Good at the time but due to the 'feel good factor' it will make you vunerable. Don't switch off. Edited September 29, 2008 by coventry

[abdulrahman]

Your observation is definitely spot on. However, I'd like to add that it's true only because the Thai women have had double standards with the way the term "love" is defined. Thai women do fall in love "pretty fast" in pretty much the same manner as Western women, but only with Thai men. Thai women will talk bad about Thai men, that they're lazy and irresponsible etc. They complain, but at the same time they willingly toll their fragile bodies under the scorching afternoon heat to help make end meets. Thai women love without asking for any in return, but the Thai men continue to lace around and spend more than they earn.

It's only with Farangs and Tangchak that they Thai women would have you believe that marriage is a union of two families, and in order to integrate into their families, the Farang or Tangchak husbands would have to "support" the Baan. If only they had applied the principles onto their Thai boyfriends, you wouldn't be witnessing so many single parents and jerks around.

The poorer Thais have a "crutch mentality" and this not helped by the discriminating policies of the Rattabaan. I had a Thai local guide who brought me to Khao Yai National Park. He paid 40 baht as official entrance fee; I paid 400 baht. When I related this incident to my Thai acquaintances, they told me it was only right because "Farangs and Tangchaks are rich". That was their justification. It's not the Thais who are privileged and asked to pay less; it's the Farangs and Tangchaks who are "penalized" for being rich.

The double standards will continue. We can continue to kid ourselves by thinking that if we work hard and shower the Thai women with financial support and love, eventually they will reciprocate because it's part of the culture that Thai women are "shy" and "slow" when expressing their love and emotions. At least we don't feel stupid by thinking along that line. It's a cleverly contrived "culture" that the Thai women would like you to believe in the way it's presented as a deep-rooted culture. In the same way that we don't feel stupid thinking in that direction, it also goes a long way to allaying their fear of "losing face" while families and relatives continue to live off their more affluent Farang relatives.

Of course there are always exceptions. It's an observation that by no means defines "every" Thai woman. And you should continue to believe that while the facts may be similar, your encounter is more likely the exception. My advice is believe in anything that makes you feel good.

This is the best summary after 11 pages of contrasting opinions.Respect them all,don't care for most.Sin Sod is only one aspect of the Thai tradition,differently applied to Thais and Farangs.The double standard is evident,and yes,it will continue.As long I believe(wrongly)to be different,I'll feel good in Thailand,with my Thai wife and family.Should I take my(rosetinted) glasses off,time to go back home.

[Gary A]

I know a farang from this area who just got married. I won't call him a friend because I don't particularly like the guy. He paid 100,000 baht and never blinked an eye. His new bride is 22 years old, never been married and doesn't speak a word of English. He's in his mid 40's. His previous wife ran off with another farang. I didn't really blame her.

[Damaz6052]

Also, the term 'love' to me is defined VERY DIFFERENTLY in Thailand than in the West. I've found most Thai women don't 'fall in love' the way Western women do. Instead, it's a feeling that grows over time as the man provides support for the wife/family over time. Only by helping the wife's family over time (starting with sinsod) does the Thai wife understand/realize how much the man loves her and she returns that love in kind.

Your observation is definitely spot on. However, I'd like to add that it's true only because the Thai women have had double standards with the way the term "love" is defined. Thai women do fall in love "pretty fast" in pretty much the same manner as Western women, but only with Thai men. Thai women will talk bad about Thai men, that they're lazy and irresponsible etc. They complain, but at the same time they willingly toll their fragile bodies under the scorching afternoon heat to help make end meets. Thai women love without asking for any in return, but the Thai men continue to lace around and spend more than they earn.

It's only with Farangs and Tangchak that they Thai women would have you believe that marriage is a union of two families, and in order to integrate into their families, the Farang or Tangchak husbands would have to "support" the Baan. If only they had applied the principles onto their Thai boyfriends, you wouldn't be witnessing so many single parents and jerks around.

The poorer Thais have a "crutch mentality" and this not helped by the discriminating policies of the Rattabaan. I had a Thai local guide who brought me to Khao Yai National Park. He paid 40 baht as official entrance fee; I paid 400 baht. When I related this incident to my Thai acquaintances, they told me it was only right because "Farangs and Tangchaks are rich". That was their justification. It's not the Thais who are privileged and asked to pay less; it's the Farangs and Tangchaks who are "penalized" for being rich.

The double standards will continue. We can continue to kid ourselves by thinking that if we work hard and shower the Thai women with financial support and love, eventually they will reciprocate because it's part of the culture that Thai women are "shy" and "slow" when expressing their love and emotions. At least we don't feel stupid by thinking along that line. It's a cleverly contrived "culture" that the Thai women would like you to believe in the way it's presented as a deep-rooted culture. In the same way that we don't feel stupid thinking in that direction, it also goes a long way to allaying their fear of "losing face" while families and relatives continue to live off their more affluent Farang relatives.

Of course there are always exceptions. It's an observation that by no means defines "every" Thai woman. And you should continue to believe that while the facts may be similar, your encounter is more likely the exception. My advice is believe in anything that makes you feel good.

What is Rattabaan?

Thanks

[Farma]

What is Rattabaan?

Thanks

รัฐบาล rát-tà-baan government

[abdulrahman]

I know a farang from this area who just got married. I won't call him a friend because I don't particularly like the guy. He paid 100,000 baht and never blinked an eye. His new bride is 22 years old, never been married and doesn't speak a word of English. He's in his mid 40's. His previous wife ran off with another farang. I didn't really blame her.

Make her pregnant every year,give her the bare minimum to feed herself and the children,beat her every time she speak to a male outside the family,or beat her just for the sake of it;she'll never run away!

Sh*t,can't do it,am not Thai,only a farang!

[MayBeLater]

In the past 2 years, I've heard many stories about Issan weddings. I've been warned by many who've left broken hearted and broke.

But I will tie the knot with a fine lady of 30, a graduate of Ubon Ratchisima University, who worked as a quality control specialist at cpk, earning 18K bhat per month, a decent salary. She's a virgin. Is that really possible? Are women like this real?

Knowing that many a farang has settled in Issan with their love, I'd appreciate your stories and advise. Especially about dowry, gold Bhat, and wedding costs. If Dad gets a dowry, is that it? Or am I expected to help the family with each "emergency"?

Maybe this issue has been discussed many times before, but I'm new to the Forum, and hope to hear some good stories. Mike

Do you believe in ghosts because most Thai people do? I don't.

I will never pay a cent for a girl. In some (many) respects I think my culture is superior than Thai culture (yes I know that political correctness states that all cultures are equal, not) and that dowry stuff is one of the issues I will never ever accept.

BTW, why get married? Its old-fashioned in your culture (well in mine it is, BeNeLux), why go back in time and marry a Thai girl. In that way you don't even have to think of a 1st century concept called dowry.

MBL

[Dave the Dude]

NW Europe ?

sounds like you are ashamed of your home-land????

Although I must admit, I don't completely disagree with your sentiments.

Dave

[philstone]

Come on now...

I'm retired, 54, married to a NON-BG ( family has twice the money I could ever hope to have) and ready to take on the world...

I live here because it is just that much better than elsewhere..for right now.

Some of us retiree's just might surprise ya!

Sorry to say PM me your in the laws electric bill ( I bet free electric) and yours I already send copy of mine which you can see is 17,600 baht for last month.

My in laws are richer then yours because my wife and I gave them money. My wife was a *****. So there