Hints On Several Questions...

[MrSquigle]

If anyone has knowledge on these questions, all appreciated.

First... I just started scanning all my old photos from pre digital days. Some have already seemed to be fading and discolouring.

I have an Epsom scanner, about 3 years old probably so I guess there are better scanners around now even to do the job. Anybody know what is the best, easiest to use and not overly costly. This scanner seems to do ok, just scanned 3 pics and all considered, they look ok. But as I have several hundred, I would like to do it the best way the first time. This scanner saves in BMP, PCX, TIF, JPG and JPG-progressive, PCT and PDF. Whats the best to save in, what is the difference between jpg and jgp-progressive ?

Second....what is the best way to store old print photos here in the tropics ?

Third....When you crop a photo (I only have the simplest version of acdsee) how do you save that file then in any decent size to be able to use it for print and enlargements later on ? Currently it saves them at around 2/300kb only with no option that I can see to save as a bigger file.

Fourth...when resizing a pic for uploading to the web for posting, is a size of 50/100kb still big enough to see what the shot is all about, for example in the 'evaluate photo' section. I have a few pics I want to put up but need to make them small so as they are next to useless to anyone else.....or is there another way to stop someone stealing the shot. I ask cos for example I have a couple of shots of kids I do not want to be taken and used by anyone for any reason etc.

Thanks.

[The Vulcan]

If anyone has knowledge on these questions, all appreciated.

First... I just started scanning all my old photos from pre digital days. Some have already seemed to be fading and discolouring.

You scanning prints/negs or slides - what format i.e. 35mm 120 etc?

I have an Epsom scanner, about 3 years old probably so I guess there are better scanners around now even to do the job. Anybody know what is the best, easiest to use and not overly costly. This scanner seems to do ok, just scanned 3 pics and all considered, they look ok. But as I have several hundred, I would like to do it the best way the first time. This scanner saves in BMP, PCX, TIF, JPG and JPG-progressive, PCT and PDF. Whats the best to save in, what is the difference between jpg and jgp-progressive ?

See this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=157269

Tiff and Jpeg are your best options - depends on your available space - Jpeg is 1/10th the size of a Tiff file BUT, Tiff is lossless i.e. it will not deteriorate as you continually open it - Jpeg will!

Second....what is the best way to store old print photos here in the tropics ?

Scan them in and they won't deteriorate

Third....When you crop a photo (I only have the simplest version of acdsee) how do you save that file then in any decent size to be able to use it for print and enlargements later on ? Currently it saves them at around 2/300kb only with no option that I can see to save as a bigger file.

Not sure about your software but usually you select Tiff or Jpeg - I always save at 300 dpi and 12x8 image siaze. This gives me a 25Mb file which is more than ample for a decent print

Fourth...when resizing a pic for uploading to the web for posting, is a size of 50/100kb still big enough to see what the shot is all about, for example in the 'evaluate photo' section. I have a few pics I want to put up but need to make them small so as they are next to useless to anyone else.....or is there another way to stop someone stealing the shot. I ask cos for example I have a couple of shots of kids I do not want to be taken and used by anyone for any reason etc.

Firstly, resize at (say) 72 dpi and 800 wide/high. This will give a viewable image. if your really concerned about copyright, acquire a proprietary watermarking software. This should take care of your worries

Hope this helps

Thanks.

[NordicMan]

If anyone has knowledge on these questions, all appreciated.

First... I just started scanning all my old photos from pre digital days. Some have already seemed to be fading and discolouring.

I have an Epsom scanner, about 3 years old probably so I guess there are better scanners around now even to do the job. Anybody know what is the best, easiest to use and not overly costly. This scanner seems to do ok, just scanned 3 pics and all considered, they look ok. But as I have several hundred, I would like to do it the best way the first time. This scanner saves in BMP, PCX, TIF, JPG and JPG-progressive, PCT and PDF. Whats the best to save in, what is the difference between jpg and jgp-progressive ?

Thanks.

BMP, PCX and PCT has no benefits for photographers. avoid them

for this purpose, forget about PDF also.

i would say your real, practical choices, are jpg and tif

jpg is a "lossy" compression. it slightly alters the image to enable higher compressions. you can choose the amount of alterations yourself, usually the quality setting. At top quality, you won't be able to see any difference. at bottom setting, the picture will look horrible but will take very little disk space.

One issue with jpg is that each time you edit the image and resave it, it will be further altered to allow good compression.

if you keep quality at maximum, there will be almost no changes to the images after the first time.

jpg only works on 8-bit images. this can potentially be an issue, perhaps more so for b&w photos where subtle tones are even more important.

progressive jpg is same as jpg except that the file is saved differently. the image quality is identical. file size is slightly larger for the same quality.

however, prog jpg allows internet explorer to display the photo before it is fully loaded. for very large files, to be displayed on the internet, with slow internet connection, this can be a benefit. the photo will be displayed progressively as it is loaded, instead of waiting for the whole image to be downloaded.

TIF is a very versatile format. it allows a range of compression algorithms within the TIF container. It allows 16-bit files, and it allows lossless compression. Lossless compression simply means that the file you save will be 100% identical to the original.

example of very simple lossless compression algorithm to illustrate how it works:

Original: a text string "I AM HUNGRY, I AM HUNGRY, I AM HUNGRY, I AM HUNGRY"

compressed: "4*"I AM HUNGRY"

See what I mean? the version on this takes 1/4 the space, yet is identical to the original (ok, disregarding the commas and blank space)

TIF will take much more space than jpg. Suggest you save with LZW or ZIP compression. there is no benefit to saving without compression, absolutely zero difference to image quality, but will take heaps more space.

you need to decide whether the tiny increase in image quality of TIF vs JPG at high quality is worth the 3-6 times larger file sizes.

I don't have any scans, so my way is not directly relevant to you... but I keep 3 files

.NEF - the raw file from my nikon

.PSD - the Photoshop working file, containing all layers and workings

.JPG - the final output

If i need to alter the .JPG file, I will open the .PSD file and make adjustments and create a new jpg. i could also go back to the raw file (nef) and develop it differently.

cheers

nm

[NordicMan]

If anyone has knowledge on these questions, all appreciated.

Third....When you crop a photo (I only have the simplest version of acdsee) how do you save that file then in any decent size to be able to use it for print and enlargements later on ? Currently it saves them at around 2/300kb only with no option that I can see to save as a bigger file.

Not sure about your software but usually you select Tiff or Jpeg - I always save at 300 dpi and 12x8 image siaze. This gives me a 25Mb file which is more than ample for a decent print

Attached is a small version of an original. The original is 8x10 @ 300dpi (2400x3000 pixel)

File sizes using Photoshop:

JPG at quality 10 of 12: 1264k

JPG at quality 12 of 12: 2122k

TIF with LZW: 8236k

TIF with ZIP:7402k

TIF uncompressed: 21626k

Note 1: not all image sofware is compatible with TIF/ZIP. TIF/LZW will be supported by just about every program there is.

Note 2: There is absolutely no image difference between the three TIF files above, just the mathematical algorithms behind how it is saved to your disk.

cheers

nm

[MrSquigle]

Good advice on the scanner in the other thread, might consider a new one. I currently have the 'Epsom perfection 1660 photo' model, much difference between that and what you bought I wonder.

I have pretty much all 35mm prints and some old slide shots also to store.

By storing the photos, I meant best option for the prints and slides for the tropics, even though I will have them on digital, i want to be able to keep the prints in good condition. I also have a lot of old b&w photos from the early 1900's etc and want them kept safe.

Think I understand most of the tiff and jpeg stuff. But when you say that with a Jpeg you will lose quality every time you open it, is this true for just opening the pic and looking at it or opening it as Nordic syas and retouching it every time ?

What is the difference between tiff and RAW then, is RAW only available direct from the camera ??

You mentioned saving to 25mg files, that is huge, how the hel_l do you store severl thousand photos then at that size.

All my pics are saved currently as Jpegs and sized at between 1.5 and 2.5mb generally.

I think what I will do is save the majority of these scans as high quality jpegs as recommended and then my favourites that I may wish to use for other things I will save as the digger Tiff files.

Thanks for all the info guys.

[NordicMan]

Think I understand most of the tiff and jpeg stuff. But when you say that with a Jpeg you will lose quality every time you open it, is this true for just opening the pic and looking at it or opening it as Nordic syas and retouching it every time ?

I will eat my camera, including all my lenses, if there are any changes to the jpg file by just opening them.

What is the difference between tiff and RAW then, is RAW only available direct from the camera ??

RAW is a proprietary format for each camera manufacturer. Adobe has also made an open raw format (.DNG). Some camera manufacturers support .DNG. The camera companies' own RAW files are usually not supported directly by image editing software. Some, like Photoshop, use a plug-in (adobe camera raw).

The RAW files are usually compressed using lossless algorithms, or slightly lossy. When using lossy compression, you will be extremely hard pressed to spot any difference to the image compared to a lossless compressed.

RAW is generally produced from camera, with the exception that it is possible to convert any photo to a DNG. However, there is generally no benefit in converting either tif or jpg to dng.

You may consider converting Nikon's or Canon's raw files to DNG, as DNG is slightly more compatible with software. I am unsure if this results in any degradation of picture quality. I never do it myself, as I have no need for it. I would only do it if some software I wanted to use supported DNG but not Nikon's raw.

You cannot edit an image in e.g. photoshop and decide to save it as DNG or any other raw format.

Not sure if modern scanners can save as DNG, and not sure if there are any benefits to that.

You mentioned saving to 25mg files, that is huge, how the hel_l do you store severl thousand photos then at that size.

Those 25mb files could be saved as TIF/LZW taking up about 1/3 of the space, with absolutely identical image quality, pixel by pixel.

1000 files @ 25mb = 25g. A 100gb harddisk can then store 4,000 photos at 25mb each

[Whitworthsocket]

I use a image editing program called IrfanView. Its small and fast and free and can do batch scanning and I think batch editing. One or our western Australian high schools use it.

Regards Whitworth

Third....When you crop a photo (I only have the simplest version of acdsee) how do you save that file then in any decent size to be able to use it for print and enlargements later on ? Currently it saves them at around 2/300kb only with no option that I can see to save as a bigger file.

[wineman]

Lots of good advice here.

Good luck with all the work you're going to do, but do take steps to not lose your images if your pc's HD should die a death.

When I've downloaded images I immediately copy them to a RW-DVD and, bearing in mind that CD/DVD's are subject to fungi, warping, etc., to my external HD.

I know that these steps do not make my images 100% safe, but it's pretty close.