American Expat - Amercian Salary?

[georged]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum here. I was thinking of moving to Thailand to work and possibly to stay there long term. However, I would only do so on one condition: I would need to make about as much as I make now in the states.

I was wondering how many of you american expats still make an american salary in Thailand. What sort of benefits or packages should I ask my employer? More importantly, which companies should I be looking at? I work in the IT field doing computer software related stuff.

G

[samran]

troll?

[Darknight]

no way no how , georged

[PvtDick]

The only way you will get an "American" salary is if you happen to be working for a company State-side that sends you over here. Generally, they only send over high-ranking executives who have worked for the company for a number of years and who is qualified to be a Country Manager or similar.

You are simply not going to find such a job by showing up in Thailand looking for one. You'd be very lucky to find a job paying 25% of what you're currently making.

[kabal1234]

Even expat packages are taking a shelaking these days. Cost of living is very much taken into account and salary appropriately adjusted.

[georged]

That really sucks. My thought was to join an american company with offices overseas and do some sort of transfer. My company right now has offices in Thailand and so I am thinking about it. I don't know what they do about salary adjustment.

[Indo-Siam]

Georged - 'You want to make US $15,000 per month working here in Thailand?

No problem. I'll give you a job with my company at that salary level - just as soon as you convince me that you can bring in $20,000 per month in new business to my company, from day one.

In the world of adults, employees are paid based on what value they can deliver in helping a buisness earn a profit. If you represent a high salary burden, then your presence better be able to justify that expense level by generating off-setting revenue - or comprable savings.

'You want to earn US $10,000 per month? You just have to demonstrate how you can come here and accomplish the same output as 20 Thais, each earning US $500 per month. Or 40 Thais, who each earn US $250 per month.

If you are good, here is a Bangkok company that is presently looking for an ###### (and they've been looking for 10 months - and turning away bozos who apply): http://www.zuelligpharma.com/zth/zth_home.html

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[PvtDick]

Yeah, georged, it really "sucks". Just ask the millions of Thai university graduates who live on salaries of a few hundred bucks a month and work harder than you or I ever will.

[georged]

Steve,

I sincerely doubt any expat who's paid what they're paid is working the equivalent of the number of Thais who could do it based on his/her salary. But that point aside, many expats hired to oversee and manage locals are highly paid. I believe they still have to be compensated approapriately. Should they ever decide to move back to the States, how are they going to explain to their next employer that their managerial position was paying them $15000/year?

Also, do you work for Zuellig Pharma? So what exactly are they looking for?

How are they related to Pharma Industries ( http://www.pharmaindustries.com ) ? That's really funny because I have just heard of them recently. I'm really starting to believe that the world is not all that big anymore.

PvtDick - don't knock Thai university graduates, I went to a Thai university and have done my share of the labor. I just thought I'd jump to the other side for a change.

George D

[PvtDick]

You went to a Thai university alongside Thai people, yet you feel entitled to a salary many times what they make by virtue of the color of your passport?

Of course, the top US execs at the top int'l company branch offices in Thailand make salaries similar to their counterparts in the US. For that matter, the top Thai execs at major Thai and international companies are also making up to a million baht or more a month.

But those jobs are few and far between, and they are offered to only the brightest execs who have proven themselves over a long period of time. It's a long climb up that ladder. Very, very rarely do they go to anyone from outside, just because they feel like living in Thailand. It's not out of the question, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[alleypanda]

Expat packages

http://board.nanaplaza.com/showflat.php?Ca...sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[Indo-Siam]

George -

You miss the point. Your contribution to a Thai employer is what has to pay your salary. You have to either help the employer earn more revenue, or lower its expenses - or a combination of both. No employer is going to hire you to simply burn up retained earnings.

This reality tends to get lost in the mist when you are dealing with great big companies. Well, compared to the USA, Thailand is MUCH more focussed on how an employee's salary is going to justify itself.

And - the fact is that very few westerners can come to Thailand at a high salary and perform work that can recoup that salary expense.

I originally came to Thailand working for a US company. What actually happened was that I had quit a struggling company where I had worked for four years as Pacific Rim Sales Manager, based in the US. A year later, that company's biggest competitor bought them. That competitor/new owner then sought me out, and asked me to join them, and move to Bangkok. I came on a western salary, but no package. I did my job fine - for 20 months. Then, my employer figured out that my presence was not able to pay for itself - I suppose I made the "mistake" of transferring my knowledge to the various country managers with whom I worked within the region - such that they didn't need me so much. The point came where the difference between me existing and not existing was less than they were paying me - and I got the boot. It made sense to me.

But it was not until I became an entrepreneur that the concept of justifying salaries became crystal clear to me. As I hire staff, I now retain very clear understanding that I must do so with a plan in mind - that being - how to make sure I can always bring in enough business for them to do, to pay their salary PLUS (the PLUS being the extra money that is needed for expenses of the company).

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[IamMaiC]

he'll never get the same money as he did in the states some people in the states make too much money and don't do enough work in my opinion.

like someone said on this post only way he will is if the state side company has a division in thailand. but if he got 10,000 or 15,000 a month he would be living like a king

[Khun ?]

Emerging Countries do not have the funding but for a very limited

number of western salaries. It requires a take charge self intiative

type position not labor positions that you are looking for. Many foreigners that end up in countries like Thailand not on expat packages are the ones that were not doing that well back home. Not many that

done well back home would continue to stay for 1/5th the wages they

would most likely get back in their home markets. As said you are marked as a big expense and better be earning your keep. Before you show up there is a few already assigned to learn what you do

and how so you can be replaced for 1/5th the cost. Only top psoitions will remain for very long. Learn how to save where you are making good money then you don't need to worry about pay in a third world country.

[Axel]

... I would only do so on one condition: I would need to make about as much as I make now in the states.

One very easy solution. Open up your own company and pay yourself as much as you want. You are your own master and decision maker.

OK, you have to run the company in such a way that it can afford you, but

this should not be a problem or would it?

[georged]

OK, you have to run the company in such a way that it can afford you, but

this should not be a problem or would it?

That is an alternative that I am exploring considering all the outsourcing that the US is doing, but the problem is that Thailand doesn't have as many advantages that India (they speak English AND are cheap) and China (they are super cheap) that make it an attractive outsourcing hub.

[phormio]

...

That is an alternative that I am exploring considering all the outsourcing that the US is doing, but the problem is that Thailand doesn't have as many advantages that India (they speak English AND are cheap)  and China (they are super cheap) that make it an attractive outsourcing hub.

You went to a Thai University ? You are fluent in the Thai Language, are you not; if not, then perhaps you can spend the time to learn Thai - then you can hire Thai programmers and do all the English work yourself, no problem.

Also, its possible to locate Thai's who know software development AND English.

[expatinasia]

Newbie,

With the exception of cars, things are pretty cheap in the Kingdom. You didn't mention what salary that you're looking for or your expertise, so my suggestions might be off-center. You can do something that no other native Thai can do: speak English as a native. You could teach English, but the pay might discourage you. If you a lot about a little (def of "expert"), you could become a consultant. Since I left my job in the US, I've decided that I don't want to work fulltime, and working as a consultant allows me to do as I please.

[PvtDick]

You can do something that no other native Thai can do: speak English as a native.

Not entirely true, as there are plenty of Thai nationals who grew up overseas and who have now returned. I employ a couple of them, and their English is as good as mine.

[Dickie]

You can do something that no other native Thai can do: speak English as a native.

Not entirely true, as there are plenty of Thai nationals who grew up overseas and who have now returned. I employ a couple of them, and their English is as good as mine.

Ditto. I met a Thai in the GHouse and he'd worked in England for about ten years. Flawless English and a good accent as well. "Made my money and now want to enjoy it" was the reason he'd returned. £2.50 for a beer in England, no wonder he came back.

[dsukhumvit]

Getting an American type salary/ benefits here, at least in my opinion, is based on having very sepcialized skills, knowledge and networks, that allow you as Steve says, to justify your existence at the level you are seeking. I don't know what field you are in so I can't day if such an opportunity applies to you or not.

i found my opportunity here, not in the states, but it took quite a while, a lot of door knocking and letting people know I existed and what I was capable of bringing to the table. Based on those, now I have that opportunity, but even at that, the need to prove ot worthwhile never ceases and never will. I will probably set up a rival company at some point for that very reason, and then, I too will apply the same pressures to the people working for me.

But I think specialized skills in more eccentric or engineer oriented industries will at least give you a chance.

[duke69]

1) Expat Job is mainly related to the trust the HQ has in you, not just @ cost/benefit $ ratio. Yes if you bring 20 of profit they can pay you 15, but sometime an expat position is based on other parameters.

2) Expat jobs are the main cut big Multinational are making on overheads, we are ###### expensive.

3) Many people are applying for expat position in these days, not just for the packege but also for the experience and the global economy makes it very simple.

4) In Far East there is a offer for expat jobs which is 1/5 of the demand. In the future will be even worst.

5) In some european countries till 15-20 years ago, speaking english was a PLUS and the benefit was to grab a very well paid expat job, now speaking English is a MUST and no more a PLUS.

6) China expat job till 15 years ago was paid >250,000$, now is <150,000$ and this salary is still drammatically reducing year by year. The reason is that China is becoming a very easy country where to live, you can live with your western style of life and own food (Shangai, Beijing).

7) Thai: Expats dreaming to work there for any salary, the expat package (from Multinational) is reduced ,100,000$ for non MD positions. Aussies are likely to relocate to Thai for much less.

8) Living in Far East is nice, easy, cheap. This is reducing the value of the packages.

9) In Far East most of the countries have developed in the last 20 years good Universities and the level of education of the local people is OK: no need for long term expats.

10) Local are learning english, studying abroad, a very skilled and well paid local costs anyway 1/5 than an expat (same position). This is the ratio to compare, saying that an expat costs like 20 Thai is not fair, since those 20 Thais are very low skilled.

11) Yes indeed most of the big Multinational are outsourcing to India, China (Far East no more), but they want local people, no expats. Otherwise they don't outsource.

12) In a few years there will be a new generation of expats: Indian and Chinese high skilled expats. They will accepts expats packeges 1/3 of the actual ones, they do speaks 3-4 languages and they are educated and motivated as we are.

My Multinational is already appointing as new expats a group of Indians (they cost much less than me) and sad to say they work in a very effective and efficient way.

13) US or English expats (the most expensive ones) have days numbered, the just speak English and normally they face cultural problems without any willing to resolve them. European expats they will survive just a few more years because someone in the Mother company (old management) doesn't speak English and they want to have meetings in the "mother tounge".

14) We arrive in Far East and we think to be the best ..... at the beginning it's true, but we have to bear in mind that we must keep growing (professional point o view) and we have to follow training, courses, MBAs, .... But we don't

15) Expat position is a priviledge, but we think we are not paid enough and sometimes (after few years) we become lazy without realizing that in the mother company there is always someone with a gun pointed at us and someone else dreaming to grab our job.

16) go back to work

[georged]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I got alot of info and alot to think about. For the most part it looks like I won't be able to get away from being entreprenurial which I am already doing in the States.

G