Former Thai Nationals Buying Property

[cnxmike]

I suppose all who read and write here know, that foreigners can't buy property in Thailand. But I know a lot of cases, where (former Thai) wives of foreigners buy land using their old id-cards. But they gave up already their Thai citizienship to get the citizienship of their husband's country. That's mandatory in some countries.

Is this save and legal?

[Maestro]

How do you know they gave up their Thai citizenship? It is not necessary for a Thai who marries a foreigner.

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Maestro

[kash]

How do you know they gave up their Thai citizenship? It is not necessary for a Thai who marries a foreigner.

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Maestro

it is, if the country where she/he moved to practice a single-citizenship policy, i.e. Scandinavian countries.

[Maestro]

Anything about Thai wives of Scandinavians in the OP?

In what form does the Thai wife of a Scandinavian have to demonstrate to the Scandinavian country’s government that she has given up Thai citizenship? Can she not declare to the Scandinavian country’s government that she has given up Thai citizenship, but in effect not make a declaration to the Thai government that she desires to renounce her Thai nationality?

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Maestro

[cnxmike]

The point is before a foreign national is giving his new certificate of citizenship, he first must bring an official statement from his former country, that he is no more a citizen.

By the way that's not only scandinavian countries. I would think that's the case for most european countries

There are a few countries like Iran, which refuse to release their citizens. But this not the case for Thailand.

Edited January 20, 2008 by cnxmike

[cnxmike]

A friend of mine has a Thai wife, who has 3 sisters and brothers, who are US citizens. All of them abandoned their Thai citizenship, and now have only an US passport and US Citizenship.

But all of them bought land and houses in Thailand afterwards.

So I wonder whether this is legal or not.

[madjbs]

How do you know they abandoned their Thai citizenship? There is no reason why they would do this, perhaps they just allowed their passports and ID cards expire but didn’t renounce their citizenship?

[Maestro]

I thinks it’s time to look at Thailand’s Nationality Act. Section 13 describes how a Thai woman married to a foreigner can get rid of her Thai nationality:

Section 13. A woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of her husband according to the nationality law of her husband, shall, if she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of her intention before the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

So, cnxmike, unless for every Thai woman you mentioned you have seen a written confirmation from the competent Thai official that he has accepted the woman’s renunciation of her Thai nationality, you cannot say that she has given up her Thai nationality.

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Maestro

[noise]

I thinks it's time to look at Thailand's Nationality Act. Section 13 describes how a Thai woman married to a foreigner can get rid of her Thai nationality:

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Maestro

And to support Maestro's input that a Thai national does not have to give up Thai citizenship, look at the U.S. State Dept's policy on Dual Nationality at http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Among other points, State Dept site states:

"Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship. "Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship. "

[kash]

Anything about Thai wives of Scandinavians in the OP?

In what form does the Thai wife of a Scandinavian have to demonstrate to the Scandinavian country’s government that she has given up Thai citizenship? Can she not declare to the Scandinavian country’s government that she has given up Thai citizenship, but in effect not make a declaration to the Thai government that she desires to renounce her Thai nationality?

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Maestro

Lol. Anything about not being a Scandinavian in the OP? It's a simple factual EXAMPLE, like it or not - that is how it is there, and many many other countries. And yes of course do they need paperwork, and yes such paperwork does exist.

[Naam]

How do you know they gave up their Thai citizenship? It is not necessary for a Thai who marries a foreigner.

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Maestro

it is, if the country where she/he moved to practice a single-citizenship policy, i.e. Scandinavian countries.

not only in scandinavian countries but in my home country Germany too. my wife had to give up her former dual nationality by handing over her passports before the document "german citizen" was handed over to her (because we were stupid enough to inform the german authorities of both her citizenships). dual nationality is only accepted for those born after jan1, 1977 who have a german and a foreign parent.

[Naam]

Anything about Thai wives of Scandinavians in the OP?

In what form does the Thai wife of a Scandinavian have to demonstrate to the Scandinavian country’s government that she has given up Thai citizenship? Can she not declare to the Scandinavian country’s government that she has given up Thai citizenship, but in effect not make a declaration to the Thai government that she desires to renounce her Thai nationality?

--

Maestro

Lol. Anything about not being a Scandinavian in the OP? It's a simple factual EXAMPLE, like it or not - that is how it is there, and many many other countries. And yes of course do they need paperwork, and yes such paperwork does exist.

in our case my wife's passports, together with her declaration in lieu of an oath to renounce her citizenships, were sent by the german authorities to the relevant embassies.

[cnxmike]

I didn't want to discuss single or dual citizenships. I only was curious whether it's legal for a Thai who renounced his Thai citizenship and in the meantime is a citizen of another country, to buy land in Thailand?

Edited January 21, 2008 by cnxmike

[Priceless]

It seems that for some reason the above posters have accepted as a fact that dual citizenship is not allowed in Scandinavia. Scandinavia proper consists of three countries, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. Out of these I know that Sweden allows dual citizenships since 1 July 2001. My g/f got her Swedish citizenship a few years ago with the Swedish authorities well aware of her Thai citizenship.

Sometimes the word Scandinavia is used in a slightly wider sense to include Finland, which incidentally also allows dual citizenship (in this case since 1 June 2003).

Facts are wonderful things

/ Priceless

[percy2]

I suppose it begs the question that if someone renounces the citizenship are they allowed to reapply for it?

Cheers

[percy2]

Good general info here on dual citizenship http://www.multiplecitizenship.com

Cheers

[Naam]

I suppose it begs the question that if someone renounces the citizenship are they allowed to reapply for it?

i know several cases where this has been done. it always depends whether the country of origin allows dual citizenship and of course is not informing the authorities of the other country. have no idea though what is legal in Thailand and what is illegal. most of the thai lawyers don't know!

Edited January 21, 2008 by Naam

[percy2]

I suppose it begs the question that if someone renounces the citizenship are they allowed to reapply for it?

i know several cases where this has been done. it always depends whether the country of origin allows dual citizenship and of course is not informing the authorities of the other country. have no idea though what is legal in Thailand and what is illegal. most of the thai lawyers don't know!

I guess that solves the OP's question.

Cheers

[cnxmike]

"have no idea though what is legal in Thailand and what is illegal. most of the thai lawyers don't know"

That' s I suppose the "This is Thailand" explaination.

[grtaylor]

Section 13. A woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of her husband according to the nationality law of her husband, shall, if she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of her intention before the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

"the competent official" - I just love that phrase

G

[Maestro]

"the competent official" - I just love that phrase

It is a commonly used term in laws. The law itself or a Ministerial Regulation based on the law defines who this official is. From the Nationality Act:

Section 4. In this Act:

"Alien" means a person who does not have a Thai nationality;

"Competent official" means the person appointed by the Minister for the execution of this Act;

"Minister" means the Minister taking charge and control of the execution of this Act.

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Maestro

[Johpa]

Section 13. A woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of her husband according to the nationality law of her husband, shall, if she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of her intention before the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

"the competent official" - I just love that phrase

G

And in practicality, what this laws allows is for a Thai national to renounce their Thai citizenship to a foreign government and thus obtain foreign citizenship without losing Thai citizenship. Pretty standard fare amongst nation-states around the globe which is why it is so common to meet people with multiple passports. I have one friend who carries at least four passports at all times.