Termite Prevention: Insecticide Sprays Or Baiting Systems?

[jkinbkk]

I certainly believe that preventative measures must be taken against termite attack for houses in Thailand.

Over the past 7 years I have used both systems with varying degrees of success.

I am due again to renew my contract with one or the other systems but firstly I’d like to see what experiences you guys have had?

My two main questions are:

1. Which system, insecticide or bait really is the most effective deterrent?

2. How honourable are the contractors when it comes to legitimate claims within warranty for compensation if the system has failed and termites have caused damage?

[tracker]

You probably are not waiting for my answer, but i gonna try anyway:

I do not want to use any chemicals around my house for the obvious reasons. I have plenty of termites in the garden. In fact, I feed them old wood. I have found out, by personal experience, over 8 years, how they are easily kept at bay. The first thing is, they cannot tunnel through normal sand. They need a hard underground, like rocks, wall etc. So if you digg a small ditch, say 20cm wide and fill it with sand (that yellow sand for concrete will do) and keep it clear from weeds and plants. there is no way they can cross it.

Another thing is, they don't like sound. So you could use your imagination what to do with that (music etc.). If you hammer a couple times on a piece of wood, they won't touch it for a couple days. Dunno why, but thats what i noticed.

If leave a place a long time alone, they are bound to come in... even if you have a ditch, because it will sprout weeds etc.

[ProThaiExpat]

While the sand idea is appealing, most of my termite intrusions are from underground termites that find cracks in the foundation or plumbing pipe entry points to find their way in.

I think the fact that my developer had all the construction debris buried under my foundation may have contributed to my termite problem as I am sure they ate away for a couple of years and multiplied on that food source before looking to climb into my house.

I had a well respected spray company come out and drill access ports through the floor such that there was an access port for every square of foundation wall. He then deluged the subterranean soil with his chemicals and that did the trick, each year less and less evidence of them. I think that once the soil under your foundation gets thoroughly poisoned, the residual prevents further meaningful infestation.

I have minimum garden so no clue how to prevent garden infestation. My builder now installs a pvc system under the foundations of his new constructions into which the termite chemical is injected.

I wouldn't know how bait could be used for under foundation termite control.

[backflip]

"Over the past 7 years I have used both systems with varying degrees of success.

1. Which system, insecticide or bait really is the most effective deterrent?

2. How honourable are the contractors when it comes to legitimate claims within warranty for compensation if the system has failed and termites have caused damage? "

Since you have used both systems in the past, why are you asking which system is better? You should be telling us.

[chownah]

I live in the north. We have a concrete and block first floor and a wood second floor. The house is about 6 years old and we have had no termite problems. We use no insecticides at all. Our neighbors have similar constructions and use no insecticide and have no problems either. One important thing is to keep your wood dry. Occasionally a house will get some termites and the correction is to remove the infested wood and replace it.....doesn't happen very often and not that big of a deal. This happened at my mother in law's house a few years back. There was a wooden partition built on the ground floor one end of which connected to the exterior wall on the side of the house where rain water gets blown against the wall....so they 1. had wood on the first floor and 2. didn't keep their wood dry.....but in a couple of days the bad wood was removed and new wood put in....no big deal. I've never heard of a house around here that had a major infestation with widespread damage....around here it is not a big issue.

Chownah

[Gary A]

I live in the north. We have a concrete and block first floor and a wood second floor. The house is about 6 years old and we have had no termite problems. We use no insecticides at all. Our neighbors have similar constructions and use no insecticide and have no problems either. One important thing is to keep your wood dry. Occasionally a house will get some termites and the correction is to remove the infested wood and replace it.....doesn't happen very often and not that big of a deal. This happened at my mother in law's house a few years back. There was a wooden partition built on the ground floor one end of which connected to the exterior wall on the side of the house where rain water gets blown against the wall....so they 1. had wood on the first floor and 2. didn't keep their wood dry.....but in a couple of days the bad wood was removed and new wood put in....no big deal. I've never heard of a house around here that had a major infestation with widespread damage....around here it is not a big issue.

Chownah

I live in the north too and our termites are VERY healthy. The only wood in our house is the window and door frames, so no big problem there. After I had my garage/workshop built, the workers took the scaffolds and forms from the concrete work and piled them all against my block fence. Three years later all that is left is a few piles of saw dust. UNBELIEVABLE!

[chownah]

I live in the north. We have a concrete and block first floor and a wood second floor. The house is about 6 years old and we have had no termite problems. We use no insecticides at all. Our neighbors have similar constructions and use no insecticide and have no problems either. One important thing is to keep your wood dry. Occasionally a house will get some termites and the correction is to remove the infested wood and replace it.....doesn't happen very often and not that big of a deal. This happened at my mother in law's house a few years back. There was a wooden partition built on the ground floor one end of which connected to the exterior wall on the side of the house where rain water gets blown against the wall....so they 1. had wood on the first floor and 2. didn't keep their wood dry.....but in a couple of days the bad wood was removed and new wood put in....no big deal. I've never heard of a house around here that had a major infestation with widespread damage....around here it is not a big issue.

Chownah

I live in the north too and our termites are VERY healthy. The only wood in our house is the window and door frames, so no big problem there. After I had my garage/workshop built, the workers took the scaffolds and forms from the concrete work and piled them all against my block fence. Three years later all that is left is a few piles of saw dust. UNBELIEVABLE!

Yeah...we have lots of termites too and any soft wood like form boards will get eaten up in short order if left on the ground....harder woods will get eaten too but it takes longer...keeping the wood five or ten centimetres off the ground (on blocks laid flat for instance) only delays them a bit.....a concrete slab with no cracks will keep them out but you have to patrol the perimetre because they will build dirt tunnels up the sides of the building to find food and nesting sites....all you have to do is to destroy these above ground tunnels when you see them....or so it seems.

Chownah

[peekint]

I rehabbed several all-wood homes in San Francisco, which has a severe termite problem like we have in Chiang Mai. By doing that, I learned that chemical-free methods can be used to completely eliminate termites.

That said, the termites in Thailand are MUCH more aggressive than termites in San Francisco, so any termite prevention work has to be equally as aggressive.

I've applied the principles we used in San Francisco to four buildings in Chiang Mai (2 reinforced concrete structures, both of which were infested when purchased, and two newly-built wood structures). I did the first of these buildings 8 years ago, and 8-years later it remains uninfested, while neighboring buildings are still infested.

The following recommendations are for the common reinforced concrete structures in Thailand. (Wood buildings are uncommon outside rural areas)

1. No earth-wood contact.

This is a special problem due to the building practices here. It is common practice to install ground-floor doorframes BEFORE the ground floor slab is poured, so that the bottom of the doorframes actually rest in the earth below the house. First remedy - remove all ground floor doorframes, and COMPLETELY fill in the holes in the slab which remain. Install new doorframes, in any material, including wood. If you use wood door frames, cut them up short and set them on concrete risers.

Inspect the entire ground floor, inside and out, to see if there are any other potential sources of earth-wood contact.

2. Remove where they hide

Another common building practice is to brick-in pipe and drain causeways. Even if the floor of these causeways is cement, there cannot be a good seal between PVC pipe and cement. Termites will find a way through the space and set up highways inside these causeways and gain access to the entire building (I have a friend who has a condo on the 17th floor of a building in Bangkok, and he cannot leave a cardboard box on the floor, or overnight it is attacked by termites!).

Where possible, remove these causeways, cement their floors (if they are dirt), and use silicone caulk to seal around where the pipes enter the building. The causeway only needs to be removed on the ground floor. If one area would be unsightly where there causeway is removed, then, instead, install an access door one meter from the floor so the causeway can be inspected. periodically. Pour cement down the causeway to a depth of 3" to help seal the bottom, then fill up to the access door with dry building sand. Termites cannot build tunnels through sand - however, they might find another way to get back up the causeway (hey, they have nothing else to do with their time), so yearly inspection is necessary in this case.

Remove all ground-floor wooden baseboards or molding and replace with the fake versions or with ceramic tile properly installed (no voids behind the tile). All tile walls and trim must end at least 6" from any wood doorframes or windows (I recommend replacing all ground floor windows with aluminum or vinyl, anyway), and at least 12" from any ceiling. The way tile is installed in Thailand leaves voids that the termites love; they'll crawl behind the tile to get to any adjoining wood.

Open and inspect all suspended ceilings. I recommend removing them and stuccoing the concrete ceilings on the ground floor, but if this is not possible, at least open an inspection hole in each room. It is very common for there to be hidden bamboo or plywood concrete forms underneath. If you find them there, you'll find termites there, too. Take out the ceilings, remove all the consumable materials, and replace the ceilings (as I said, it would be better to just finish and stucco the cement ceiling). When you replace the ceiling, leave an access hole for yearly inspection. YOU MUST DO THIS STEP ON EVERY FLOOR, IN EVERY ROOM IN THE HOUSE.

You have to be diligent and remove each access to the ground floor, and each pathway up the building. Take your time, think it through. Once you cut off the termites in the house from their ground access, they will die off within 2-3 months without chemical extermination.

Finally, I'd want to add that the bait systems are the safest and most environmentally sound. Used in conjunction with good building practices, they can eliminate all the headaches of termites. But used alone, they are useless. Spend your money on the building revisions, if you can only afford one of the two.

[peekint]

While the sand idea is appealing, most of my termite intrusions are from underground termites that find cracks in the foundation or plumbing pipe entry points to find their way in.

I think the fact that my developer had all the construction debris buried under my foundation may have contributed to my termite problem as I am sure they ate away for a couple of years and multiplied on that food source before looking to climb into my house.

I had a well respected spray company come out and drill access ports through the floor such that there was an access port for every square of foundation wall. He then deluged the subterranean soil with his chemicals and that did the trick, each year less and less evidence of them. I think that once the soil under your foundation gets thoroughly poisoned, the residual prevents further meaningful infestation.

I have minimum garden so no clue how to prevent garden infestation. My builder now installs a pvc system under the foundations of his new constructions into which the termite chemical is injected.

I wouldn't know how bait could be used for under foundation termite control.

Can't resist to comment on this one. A common practice for the exterminators here is to drill through the slab, then plug the hole with a wooden plug. The result is that if you miss even one application, your house is free-reign for the termites living underneath. I rented a place where the previous tenant had an exterminator do that job. We didn't know, and two years later the house was completely infested - all the window and door frames, the interior stairs, even the furniture started being attacked. I traced the entry point to - the plugs put in by the exterminator!

The bait systems work no matter where the main nest is. Termites "free-range" looking for food sources, and when they find the fake-bait just outside your foundation, they will set up a highway to take advantage of it. Once they have consumed the unpoisoned bait, the exterminator replaces it with the deadly stuff, which is taken back to feed the queen - that's what kills the colony.

By the way, hope you have no small children or don't plan on having kids. The termite poison they "soak" under the house is a powerful mutagen which is hormone-based. And no, it doesn't eventually get rid of them, and you never have to stop. The poison has a half-life of about 9 months and becomes ineffective after that. Just try not putting it one time, and see what happens. They'll literally come ROARING back.

[peekint]

You probably are not waiting for my answer, but i gonna try anyway:

I do not want to use any chemicals around my house for the obvious reasons. I have plenty of termites in the garden. In fact, I feed them old wood. I have found out, by personal experience, over 8 years, how they are easily kept at bay. The first thing is, they cannot tunnel through normal sand. They need a hard underground, like rocks, wall etc. So if you digg a small ditch, say 20cm wide and fill it with sand (that yellow sand for concrete will do) and keep it clear from weeds and plants. there is no way they can cross it.

Another thing is, they don't like sound. So you could use your imagination what to do with that (music etc.). If you hammer a couple times on a piece of wood, they won't touch it for a couple days. Dunno why, but thats what i noticed.

If leave a place a long time alone, they are bound to come in... even if you have a ditch, because it will sprout weeds etc.

I'm afraid with the termites here, 20cm is not near enough (though it would be in California). I your water table is low enough, they'll just go under it. You need to put sand at least a meter wide (the rule of thumb is how far they can build a tunnel in 24 hours - in CA, that's not much. Here, they can easily build a meter in 24 hours) and far enough down to reach year-round standing water (i.e., if you dig a hole that deep, it fills with water year round).

[technocracy]

The simple answer is to use timber that is impervious to termites - see my wood/timber thread somewhere in this forum for answer.

I have left numerous pieces of certain timber submerged in the soil where there is termites and left them for several months and they haven't touched it - because they can't!

This is the surest way to ensure your house isn't going to be eaten!

[canukbob]

So why dont you all use Permedan

Non-Toxic, odorless, stain free a water based contact spray that works for up to one month or morea water based contact killing spray,kills all known cold blooded insects,harmless to humans and pets,can be used in hospitals,schools,kitchens,meat producers,stables,kennels.No loss of business due to toxic odors,does not stain,can re enter room as soon as spraying is complete,works for up to one month or more.Totally bio degradeable and eco friendly,comes in 400mll hand sprays,1 litre refills or 5 litre cannisters. Not like the well known Rent a kill they use Toxic this is not you do not have to clear away anything. Spay it on the windows and entances to your house anything cold blooded touches it they are dead meat.

I actually say the demo a rep was doing on this in the expats club in Pattaya he mixed a glass half full of water the other half with Permedan mixed it together and drank it was very impressed the rest he had left in the glass about 1/4 he used to kill some insects he had brought along. need to know were to buy easy do not call Eco Pest Control they are very expensive.

pawncom at gmx dot net for wholesale prices.

Tell ya what else its good for 100 pro Mossy bites get bitten spray on one hour the mosquito bite is gone,

Edited March 29, 2010 by canukbob

[canukbob]

I live in the north. We have a concrete and block first floor and a wood second floor. The house is about 6 years old and we have had no termite problems. We use no insecticides at all. Our neighbors have similar constructions and use no insecticide and have no problems either. One important thing is to keep your wood dry. Occasionally a house will get some termites and the correction is to remove the infested wood and replace it.....doesn't happen very often and not that big of a deal. This happened at my mother in law's house a few years back. There was a wooden partition built on the ground floor one end of which connected to the exterior wall on the side of the house where rain water gets blown against the wall....so they 1. had wood on the first floor and 2. didn't keep their wood dry.....but in a couple of days the bad wood was removed and new wood put in....no big deal. I've never heard of a house around here that had a major infestation with widespread damage....around here it is not a big issue.

Chownah

I live in the north too and our termites are VERY healthy. The only wood in our house is the window and door frames, so no big problem there. After I had my garage/workshop built, the workers took the scaffolds and forms from the concrete work and piled them all against my block fence. Three years later all that is left is a few piles of saw dust. UNBELIEVABLE!

So why dont you all use Permedan

Non-Toxic, odorless, stain free a water based contact spray that works for up to one month or morea water based contact killing spray,kills all known cold blooded insects,harmless to humans and pets,can be used in hospitals,schools,kitchens,meat producers,stables,kennels.No loss of business due to toxic odors,does not stain,can re enter room as soon as spraying is complete,works for up to one month or more.Totally bio degradeable and eco friendly,comes in 400mll hand sprays,1 litre refills or 5 litre cannisters. Not like the well known Rent a kill they use Toxic this is not you do not have to clear away anything. Spay it on the windows and entances to your house anything cold blooded touches it they are dead meat.

I actually say the demo a rep was doing on this in the expats club in Pattaya he mixed a glass half full of water the other half with Permedan mixed it together and drank it was very impressed the rest he had left in the glass about 1/4 he used to kill some insects he had brought along. need to know were to buy easy do not call Eco Pest Control they are very expensive.

pawncom at gmx dot net for wholesale prices.

Tell ya what else its good for 100 pro Mossy bites get bitten spray on one hour the mosquito bite is gone,