New Education Minister Plans To Give 1 Million Computers To Students

[chownah]

The idea is that one XO can act as a conduit for the other mesh clients, thereby proving access to the web, but there's no Ethernet connector.

Regards

So, does this mean that if all of the kids who live along a street had their Xo's turned on and the one at the phone line was internet connected then the one even the farthest from the one with the phone would have internet connection?....sort of like the web of laptops would act as a wireless extension of the phone line?

Chownah

[Plus]

It's impossible to set up under Windows, not an ad-hoc basis, you'd need to tweak your network settings everytime you turn the computer on, but maybe they'll come with a special networking features to enable it.

I suspect these laptops won't be running windows and so will be locked out of the stuff most people use on regular basis with REAL computers, inlcuding ones they have at schools already.

[freitag1]

If they do that there will be a surge in computer game addicts.

[chevykanteve]

Swedish jets are "crap"???

What's the military connection to "rail cars"??? :D

Please re-read what thaigene2 actually wrote:

Yes..well now what's better?

A "quiet" and well-educated "civil" establishment that 'quietly' raids the cookie jar for their families via defence purchases or airplane purchases with billions skimmed, or a "loud and obnoxious" bunch that do the same with computers that would, eventually, end up in the hands of kids?

Now before you say it, yes the computers could be crap - but hey, so could the jets, rail cars or military equipment..!!

NOW, KHUN JOHN: Where does thaigene2 claim a military connection to "rail cars"? And where does he say that "Swedish jets are crap"? Calm down, John. Not everyone is agreeable with, and/or an afficionado of dictatorships disguised as "civil-group" movements. Are you?

[sriracha john]

Thank you, I am perfectly calm then and now, but in light of your input, amend my questions to:

Swedish jets could be "crap"??? What evidence of that is there?

What's the military or last government's connection to "rail cars"??? :D

They didn't purchase any during their tenure.

Although the new government's decision to expand rail service will likely involve the purchase of new rail cars.

Edited February 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[chevykanteve]

Yes..well now what's better?

A "quiet" and well-educated "civil" establishment that 'quietly' raids the cookie jar for their families via defence purchases or airplane purchases with billions skimmed, or a "loud and obnoxious" bunch that do the same with computers that would, eventually, end up in the hands of kids?

Now before you say it, yes the computers could be crap - but hey, so could the jets, rail cars or military equipment..!!

It's all same-same - -- so get over it. I know where I'd rather see the (partial) money spent! If it ends up in a classroom that's better than an army camp, nes't pas?

Good post, thaigene2. It reflects common sense. I love your last sentence in particular. As I recall --and with regard to military expenditures-- the very highest in this land expressed doubts about the tentative purchase of a submarine. Computers for the kids: great. What irks some people, though, is that most of the kids are not children of Bangkok middle/upper class; they are children of the provinces, who may actually be given the chance to attain a fair education and thenceforth compete with their (non-Sino) fellow-Thais.

Edited February 10, 2008 by chevykanteve

[chevykanteve]

Thank you, I am perfectly calm then and now, but in light of your input, amend my questions to:

Swedish jets could be "crap"??? What evidence of that is there?

What's the military or last government's connection to "rail cars"??? :D

They didn't purchase any during their tenure.

Although the new government's decision to expand rail service will likely involve the purchase of new rail cars.

One-hundred years from now, what difference will it make! F..... calm down!

[sriracha john]

Thank you, I am perfectly calm then and now, but in light of your input, amend my questions to:

Swedish jets could be "crap"??? What evidence of that is there?

What's the military or last government's connection to "rail cars"??? :D

They didn't purchase any during their tenure.

Although the new government's decision to expand rail service will likely involve the purchase of new rail cars.

One-hundred years from now, what difference will it make! F..... calm down!

If that's the thinking, why post on a forum at all in any thread?

I reiterate, I am calm. What makes you think I'm not calm? Simply because I add a or a few ? makes one not calm?

[chevykanteve]

Free screen-saver too!

Cheap Shot, Tony! I should make a Samak/Abhisit screensaver, consisting of a split-face shot, waving the multiple arms of Shiva (for added measure). Such a screen-saver would symbolise the (1) futility of trying to be accepted by the masses (=Abhisit); the (2) victory of the masses (=Samak); and lastly (3): the frustration, as conveyed by waving arms, of people who post such things as "Thaksin screensavers". Cheers!

[chevykanteve]

Thank you, I am perfectly calm then and now, but in light of your input, amend my questions to:

Swedish jets could be "crap"??? What evidence of that is there?

What's the military or last government's connection to "rail cars"??? :D

They didn't purchase any during their tenure.

Although the new government's decision to expand rail service will likely involve the purchase of new rail cars.

One-hundred years from now, what difference will it make! F..... calm down!

If that's the thinking, why post on a forum at all in any thread?

I reiterate, I am calm. What makes you think I'm not calm? Simply because I add a or a few ? makes one not calm?

C'mon John, get a sense of humour. Don't be so bloody serious. I for one think that computers will benefit the education of the poor.

[sriracha john]

Thank you, I am perfectly calm then and now, but in light of your input, amend my questions to:

Swedish jets could be "crap"??? What evidence of that is there?

What's the military or last government's connection to "rail cars"??? :D

They didn't purchase any during their tenure.

Although the new government's decision to expand rail service will likely involve the purchase of new rail cars.

One-hundred years from now, what difference will it make! F..... calm down!

If that's the thinking, why post on a forum at all in any thread?

I reiterate, I am calm. What makes you think I'm not calm? Simply because I add a or a few ? makes one not calm?

C'mon John, get a sense of humour. Don't be so bloody serious. I for one think that computers will benefit the education of the poor.

If I thought for one moment that this specific program would actually and demonstrably benefit the education of the poor (whom I used to voluntarily teach myself) for the amount of money that will be expended on it, I'd be at the vanguard of its promotion and its biggest cheerleader.

Edited February 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[chevykanteve]

Thank you, I am perfectly calm then and now, but in light of your input, amend my questions to:

Swedish jets could be "crap"??? What evidence of that is there?

What's the military or last government's connection to "rail cars"??? :D

They didn't purchase any during their tenure.

Although the new government's decision to expand rail service will likely involve the purchase of new rail cars.

One-hundred years from now, what difference will it make! F..... calm down!

If that's the thinking, why post on a forum at all in any thread?

I reiterate, I am calm. What makes you think I'm not calm? Simply because I add a or a few ? makes one not calm?

C'mon John, get a sense of humour. Don't be so bloody serious. I for one think that computers will benefit the education of the poor.

If I thought for one moment that this specific program would actually and demonstrably benefit the education of the poor (whom I used to voluntarily teach myself) for the amount of money that will be expended on it, I'd be at the vanguard of its promotion and its biggest cheerleader.

The amount of money expended won't equate with educational results? You claim that? Oh, so Sondhi"ish! But nevermind, I respect your right to express yourself on this forum. Thank God for the PPP victory. Dr.Thaksin promoted computers for the poor, and I'm happy that the present, DEMOCRATICALLY-ELECTED GOVERNMENT (as opposed to the MILITARY-INSTALLED DICTATORSHIP THAT YOU WOULD APPEAR TO PREFER) is in concurrence with that issue.

[astral]

What about the team of support people who will be needed to repair the computers,

re-install software or eradicate viruses.................

Notebook/Laptop computers are notoriously difficult to upgrade

and replacement parts are horrendously expensive.

[sriracha john]

Thank you, I am perfectly calm then and now, but in light of your input, amend my questions to:

Swedish jets could be "crap"??? What evidence of that is there?

What's the military or last government's connection to "rail cars"??? :D

They didn't purchase any during their tenure.

Although the new government's decision to expand rail service will likely involve the purchase of new rail cars.

One-hundred years from now, what difference will it make! F..... calm down!

If that's the thinking, why post on a forum at all in any thread?

I reiterate, I am calm. What makes you think I'm not calm? Simply because I add a or a few ? makes one not calm?

C'mon John, get a sense of humour. Don't be so bloody serious. I for one think that computers will benefit the education of the poor.

If I thought for one moment that this specific program would actually and demonstrably benefit the education of the poor (whom I used to voluntarily teach myself) for the amount of money that will be expended on it, I'd be at the vanguard of its promotion and its biggest cheerleader.

The amount of money expended won't equate with educational results? You claim that? Oh, so Sondhi"ish! But nevermind, I respect your right to express yourself on this forum. Thank God for the PPP victory. Dr.Thaksin promoted computers for the poor, and I'm happy that the present, DEMOCRATICALLY-ELECTED GOVERNMENT (as opposed to the MILITARY-INSTALLED DICTATORSHIP THAT YOU WOULD APPEAR TO PREFER) is in concurrence with that issue.

calm down... no need to shout (in all caps).

How much do 1,000,000 computers cost? How much will the real total cost be?

Could that amount of money be better utilized in other avenues for the education of the poor to produce demonstrable results?

Most definitely it could.

In my opinion.

[chevykanteve]

What about the team of support people who will be needed to repair the computers,

re-install software or eradicate viruses.................

Notebook/Laptop computers are notoriously difficult to upgrade

and replacement parts are horrendously expensive.

[chevykanteve]

What about the team of support people who will be needed to repair the computers,

re-install software or eradicate viruses................. :whistling....

"Jennetee' (govt employees who work at 3,000+ baht per month to fix hardware/software problems at govt educational institutions for AT LEAST 8 hours per day: these are the "support people", and they deserve plaudits, given their piss-poor monthly remuneration by the BKK powers-at-be.

Anti-virus software: Name even one GOVT educational institute/university that ISN'T using pirated versions of Windows (iLLUSION) and FREE versions of anti-virus programs. They (generally) don't buy legitimate software.

[chownah]

No one knows what effect buying 1 million XO's and giving them to kids would have. The XO's ability to wirelessly and seemlessly interconnect with other XO's provides an entirely knew way of forming community, sharing, and learning.....no one knows what the result will be.....

Chownah

[sriracha john]

From the previous 250,000 computer thread involving 1/4 of the current plan comes words of the previous Education Minister:

Education Ministry axes 3 schemes

The Education Ministry has axed the ousted Thaksin Shinawatra administration's three pet projects, with a combined value of more than 10 billion baht, claiming that they were intended to win political support.

Education Minister Wijit Srisa-arn said yesterday that the three schemes have been left out of the 2007 fiscal budget plan as they have little to do with improving the quality of education.

The computer and Internet access scheme would have cost 8.6 billion baht while the cost of the three-year scholarship scheme, which ends this year, was estimated at 2 billion baht.

Investments in technology hardware and infrastructure should proceed when basic education standards have been achieved and the state is financially ready, he said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/28Nov2006_news04.php

The final sentence rings just as true today.

Earlier I had asked how much these 1,000,000 computers would cost and although the specifics of the current plan haven't been published that I'm aware of, if you multiply the previous 8.6 by 4, it equals 34.4 Billion Baht.

Obtaining sufficient amounts of chalk in some schools would be a more appropriate expenditure.

Edited February 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[chownah]

Schools that don't have chalk have a problem with their administrators not using funds wisely.

Chownah

Edited February 10, 2008 by chownah

[Ricardo]

No one knows what effect buying 1 million XO's and giving them to kids would have. The XO's ability to wirelessly and seemlessly interconnect with other XO's provides an entirely knew way of forming community, sharing, and learning.....no one knows what the result will be.....

Chownah

Quite, so how about running a trial first, with these new lap-tops ? Admittedly this would result in thinner brown-envelopes, so is unlikely to happen, but it might same a very costly mistake from being made.

[chownah]

No one knows what effect buying 1 million XO's and giving them to kids would have. The XO's ability to wirelessly and seemlessly interconnect with other XO's provides an entirely knew way of forming community, sharing, and learning.....no one knows what the result will be.....

Chownah

Quite, so how about running a trial first, with these new lap-tops ? Admittedly this would result in thinner brown-envelopes, so is unlikely to happen, but it might same a very costly mistake from being made.

So far none of them have been purchased. The problem with a trial is that you need to have bunches of kids all over the country communicating at will using their own laptops to see what happens....to set this up would require almost the same support system as buying the entire wad and the more students there are around the country the greater that chances that interests will be sparked in some of them. I agree that this is a rather expensive program but you know really Thailand has alot more money than most people think and the problem is getting some of it spent on education. Believe me that buying these computers (if they actually do buy them) is not going to force them to reduce funds elsewhere for education and frankly if you think about their existing budget and how much bang they get for the buck you'd probably agree that it is less like a bang and more like a fizzle.

It is tempting to tell them to hire more teachers to reduce class sizes. I know that many of you think you know about how education works and how it should be run but have any of you ever studied education?....did you know that in the US they did studies of class sizes and they were surprised to find that reducing class sizes was really not a very effective strategy until the class size got down to the 25 student level (Its been awhile so I might be wrong on the exact numbers (it might be even lower) but I'll proceed as if I'm correct) and reductions from say 35 down to 30 had little effect at all. That means that if you want to get results from reducing class sizes you need to invest in a big way in hiring new teachers...probably in Thailand you would need in excess of a 20% increase in the number of teachers to meet effective levels nation wide...perhaps more (my estimate here based on guessing). Where are they going to get 20% more teachers?....they have a hard time keeping staffed up with capable teachers at the level they are at now....unlikely they will find 20% more anytime soon. I don't know alot of teachers but what I have seen is a pretty good indication that alot of teachers really aren't up to snuff here in Thailand...this is likely because pedagogic techniques are an element of a culture and it takes a long time to change the culture of teaching...from what I've seen this is improving but I'm just trying to say that to just go out and hire 20% more warm bodies will not a quality classroom make.

Building a top quality educational system is difficult anywhere in the world and my view is that it is harder here than in alot of other places. These computers will not be the be all answer......but at least it will send some money that way and maybe do some good. I would say that another way to make a good investment would be if they could figure out a way to produce some really good teachers....but frankly even in well developed countries they haven't really quite got this down pat either.......blah blah blah.

Chownah

[Tony Clifton]

Look at the bright side.

In no time, the laptop project will turn into a Recycle Your Used Electronics program for these students.

[sriracha john]

...probably in Thailand you would need in excess of a 20% increase in the number of teachers to meet effective levels nation wide...Where are they going to get 20% more teachers?..

I would say that another way to make a good investment would be if they could figure out a way to produce some really good teachers...

Oh look... a strong potential for the answer to your question and points:

it equals 34.4 Billion Baht.

Edited February 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[chuck_s]

This is great news for the people of Thailand by members of the Thai love Thai party, AKA People's Party.

For the people of Thailand 1,000,000 laptop / desktop computers.

Let's see:

- $200.00 for a low grade laptop computer, roughly 6620 baht. Pentip plaza you can buy a used one for around 11,000 – 16,000 baht.

- Contract for Microsoft Windows XP software, 5000 baht.

- Microsoft office, roughly 8000 baht for license, but can be bought at Pentip plaza for about 100 baht.

- Anti-virus software from either Norton or MacAfee?

- Internet connection, monthly charges about 500 baht with roughly 2000 startup fee.

- Unlimited games to keep the children happy and focused.

- Netnanny monitoring program. We need to keep those physically developing young boys and girls from looking anything NASTLY. Or something from MCT.

 (Quote from the head of MCT)

- Now add the extra costs, this is going to be a win-win situation for someone.

[Plus]

OLPC laptops will not be running Windows, even pirated versions. Forget it, they are simply incapable - 433Mhz processor won't cut it.

They will be running Feudora Linux.

So they send them to villages where no one knows what Linux is and how to use it, if you think it's easy - go to Linux section on this board and try to make any sense of what's going on there. How do you think children will learn to use it? All by themselves? There aren't enough Limux users in this country if they ALL dropped their jobs and dedicated themselves full time to teaching these children. And if they do setup a training program, it will be more expensive than laptops themselves.

And I hope these laptops are sturdy enough as everybody would want to pull the cord or step on the pedal to recharge it.

And here is an example of the interface:

It's bloody ridiculous.

[chownah]

Articles I have read indicate that the XO is simple to operate....so simple that kids can by and large figure it out on their own but this is just what I have read.

The picture of the interface doesn't look ridiculous to me....I know nothing about how to operate these things but knowing that it has a wireless web capability I can figure out on my own that since at the top it says "my neighbors" then the icons that look like people are probably other people who have their machines turned on and that my machine is already connected with them....my next guess would be that if I put the cursor on top of one of them then it will tell me who they are....and probably if I double click on one of them it will probably open up a dialgue with them so I could send them a greeting and ask them if they were going to play football this afternoon after school...or did they get their report finished..etc.

If I am even partially correct on this I hope it demonstrates how intuitive the XO is and why children can figure it out on their own.

Having an open source operating system means that people will be encouraged to get involved with the workings of their computer at a deeper level....this kind of involvement is not possible with Windows......my view is that for consumer products Windows is preferrred because you don't have to get involved and that open source is better if you want to encourage people to get involved. Seems like (don't know for sure) that the XO has both...it evidentally functions very well on its own without needing special attention while it does allow anyone to get as deeply involved as they want to be.

Chownah

P.S. I'm not a salesman for these computers...there may be better ways to do it but I'm just trying to inform people about what the XO is supposed to be and do since it is the one which the gov't is considering.

Chownah

[traveller5000]

Kids are quick learners with things like this, because it is likely they will show a strong interest in their new toy.

Its like computer games, kids pick up the game quickly, probably quicker than adults.

[Plus]

Oh yes, it looks like a videogame, not a computer.

Kids pick it up quickly, but more importantly they get bored even quicker. There's no way they'll play a game they don't like.

As for sending messages to people in your neighbourhood - why don't you just talk to them? They are in the same room in the same school anyway, and there's nothing educational about it.

I'm struggling with ideas how to turn computer time with my kids on a real PC into an educational experience. They tend to switch to cartoonnetworks online java games in no time, and those games are very elaborate now, they demand lots of resources.

This "computer"/video game is just a joke. They can dstribute Gameboy or PSP to them just as well. You can play against your neigbours via wi-fi or even online with them already.

[stub]

Buying these computers is a waste of time if the childrens' teachers are not computer-savvy and able to educate the kids how to use the equipment and useful software, such as spreadsheets, databases etc. I bet these kids will just play computer games... The first priority is to train the teachers.

There are about *two generations* of us in the west who taught ourselves how to use computers. Its now even easier given the literature that is now available on the topic, the help available on the Internet and the fact the systems are now designed to be discoverable and usable. Find a 30s something who has been working in the industry for 10 years and ask them how they learned. Almost certainly started playing games and moved on from there, teaching a teacher or two on the way how the new fangled things worked. Give a bright kid the resources and they will be happy to help their friends.

And maybe some of these kids will become the resources needed to revitalize the Thai education system as teachers or employers or lawmakers.

[Plus]

There are people who discovered how to use computers themselves, the majority is being taught in schools now.

Computer knowledge among Thais from both groups is appaling, even on professional and government level. And the country simply doesn't have a million geeks to learn to use OLPC boxes all by themselves.

Then there's a switch from that video game box to a real computer with real computer issues and real computer usage.

After all said and done, the kids will come out of school and still have no idea how to use Excel or Internet Explorer - someone will have to retrain them.

They might just as well distribute PSP with "educational" games and homebrew manuals for geeks to write games themselves.

The Education Minister is simply talking out of his ass. What are his credentials to talk with authority on educational matters anyway? Who is he? A husband of Thaksin's sister? Is that all?