Stop Slagging Off The Back Packers

[sbk]

No, mssabai, it does sound like a great trip, but I think your image of the people making those trips is a tad idealistic.

[mssabai]

What a fanciful load of crap.

I was first backpacking 25 years ago and the spirit is the same. Just the trappings are different. Happy to live on rice and water? Yeah, if someone stole all your money, maybe.

Barefoot adventurists? Yeah (again), like we all sat around signing Kumbaya, while hugging a tree wishing we were in our own Raiders of the Lost Ark...

But what were you doing though? I still think it was probably a little more cultural than your average night out in Had Rin / Chaweng etc?

any kid who goes off to see the world on the cheap is a brave soul in my mind

I tend to disagree with that.

There was a time before the information avalanches (Lonely Planet, etal) and the well-beaten tourist trails.

There was a time when you had to figure out stuff on your own, like where to stay and how to get that ticket at the local bus station, and so on.

Today, travel around the world has been smoothed to the point that going just about anywhere is a breeze. Just about anywhere you go now you are not the intrepid traveler, you are traveler number 5 million and things are pretty cut and dried.

This is both a good thing and a bad one. Good in that it's easy; bad in that the "adventure" is slowing being leached out of independent travel.

This is what I was getting at really...before Lonely Planet, traveling required real thought and planning and hard work. I just see so many 'travelers' now who never would of had the strength of character to do something like that. And because it is all so easy for them, they take no time to understand the cultural codes of a country and you end up with the plonkers who walk into a temple in a bikini, a beach side restaurant topless and similar. I just think that the travelers of yesteryear were less likely to behave in the way that many do today.

I actually just spent the weekend on a desert island style deserted beach with no electric. Slept with the doors open, ate barbequed fish, woke up to the sun rise on the beach. To get there though it was either 1 1/2hr drive along a treacherous road, or a hair-raising and very uncomfortable boat ride across huge waves. Not easy but so worth it and it made me realise how lucky the first travelers here were to see these islands unspoiled. I guess I am just jealous really!

[mssabai]

No, mssabai, it does sound like a great trip, but I think your image of the people making those trips is a tad idealistic.

Yeah I know it was idealistic - I was on a roll with my romanticizing. But it's what my parents did and their stories are so fantastic. I fail to see how people can tell as interesting stories to their kids about their nights whiled away drinking buckets at Cactus club/Green Mango etc.

I guess I am being snobby. But once I again - I did it, only a couple of years ago, so I am grouping myself with these people. I just would have so much prefered to have done it 50 years ago like Mark ( ).

[sayitaintso]

i see all these backpackers get off the ferry here with one pack on their back, one on their front and they walk around using both hands to read the lonely planet guide book and look at a map at the same time.

i wonder how many of them actually saw samui

[t.s]

Totally agree that it is evolution, but as with many modern evolutions in the wake of globalisation, it is a negative one. Nothing wrong with decent food ipods and the like, however all those things contribute to the strange bubble like existence which means backpackers today are never really interacting with the place they are in...merely floating through it leaving rubbish and loose morals in their wake.

There are not many places untouched by western influence, however their are definitely still some unspoiled places (sans phone reception, hot water, email etc) that will remain so until the ant like march of the gap years includes them in their itinerary. The people who do make it to these places are usually far more interesting and sensitive to their environs than the hoards that make it to Had Rin and Phi Phi etc etc and whose requirements involve indedikit movie bars, multiple 7-11s and nightly parties.

I traveled SEA, especially India, Kashmir, Nepal, Sri Lanka in the 1970 and Eighties a couple of famous writers did this a century BEFORE this, I NEVER missed anything of what is on the consumer market of today!

Instead of isolating myself with an ipod/mp3 player, from the world around me, I visited local concerts, events, participated with the locals on events and festivals...mixed with the crowds, shared peoples housing... traveled on local buses, trains without much of todays comfort, walked the Himalayas....I did live pretty well without Apple, Microsoft, Baskin Robbins, McDonalds, Starbucks and Irish Theme Pubs.... well things change and much has undoubtedly changed due to the DEMANDS of the travelers!

But what to do? there is not much the traveler or one singled out group can do... it happens, just as there are Airplanes, i phones, the www. e-books, virtual worlds, the Space Shuttle... name it... my Grandmother wouldn't believe, how the world has changed... in her days it was an incredible experience to travel by train... and that wasn't fast those days...

things change... nothing will be the same.... that is what we will have to come to terms with, there is NOBODY and no group out there who alone is to be blamed for it - if so we ALL are more or less responsible - but we won't be taken in for that - so what?

Well only one thing: the "smart kids" raving on those beaches and elsewhere would be well advised to "clean up their sh.t" BEFORE leaving to the next party... this is maybe one first step in the right direction.....

my 2 Cents..

anybody ever seen a garbage can at a full moon party? or on ANY thai beach for that matter? dont the local have any responsibility for their land and livelihood?

[huggybear]

The most noteable point of Information in those days - leaving Europe overland to India was "The Pudding Shop" in Istanbul/Turkey!

there, on an incredible Pin wall, you could figure out whether the Khyber Pass was closed, which City to book to cross the Pakistani/Indian Border... where to stay in Teheran/Kabul/Kandahar/Herat/Islamabad/Karatschi.... "those were the days my friend...." long before Jo Cummins and Lonely Planet Guides... and the like, it WAS pure Adventure! There were no proper maps, about trekking routes in Nepal...only info from the pin walls in Pig Streets Pie Shops in Kathmandu....Ladakh was "Off the Planet", so was Mustang... ahh well...there were times hardly anybody knew what "Goa" was..

I can't decide who I find more absurd, the wannabe hippy backpackers of today, dreads tats,stench and all, or the old backpackers posting here on "the way it was"..........

I've decided they are equally absurd.

[Samuian]

anybody ever seen a garbage can at a full moon party? or on ANY thai beach for that matter? dont the local have any responsibility for their land and livelihood?

Sure NO Garbage Cans !...never knew that this is the point - thanx! Over to "the locals"! now I know! Reminds me on the "love Parade" in Berlin...Tons of garbage, urin and human excrement, left behind... love, love, looo-ve... guess it's up to the City... after all it's pocketing all this money...

yes, this is what happened to Goa, Hampi, Almora, Parvati Valley, Rishikesh, Haridwar, Gomera, Ibiza.... name it... just for fun - like fast food, consumed for 24 hours or so - out and

over....next...

[game4shame]

does samui have backpackers? I don't think so - not real ones anyway.

the majority of samui 'backpackers' are just young travellers on their way to phangan for the FMP as far as I can see.

real backpackers are different, ye'know the full dreadlocked/linen-wearing/fire-throwing/itinerary-absorbed knobend type.

I can't remember ever seeing a real backpacker in samui, not the like the kind you would find in phi phi for example -

''i've been here for 6 months and I've not showered or shaved once - I'm soooooooooooooooo deep man''

''no, you're not deep. you're just some posh boy from kent. now <deleted> off''.

[Carnwadrick]

Man you sound like a bunch of old farts "in my dayyyy" and in looking at your ages I doubt if many of you really made those trips or was it just in your heads while watching M-TV, it can still be tough travelling using local transportation in the back country not knowing the language and ending up goodness knows where, eating strange food just because it's all you can afford...give the kids a break

[mssabai]

Man you sound like a bunch of old farts "in my dayyyy" and in looking at your ages I doubt if many of you really made those trips or was it just in your heads while watching M-TV, it can still be tough travelling using local transportation in the back country not knowing the language and ending up goodness knows where, eating strange food just because it's all you can afford...give the kids a break

Yeah really tough...Bangkok to Phangan to Phi Phi then up to Chiang Mai. All on specially supplied tourist buses, never out of sight of a 7-11... If people are really finding themselves in a back country with no one who speaks English and having to eat real local food - good on em, they have obviously made the effort to do something a bit different. However the majority never will.

[Carnwadrick]

mssabai, it sounds like you are the one who needs to get out and see a little of the world..for 90% of these kids Samui is just a stop on the road ..some have backed through a host of countries to get here on their way to India,myanmar, Vietnam or?? most are gone for a year or more with whatever they carry on their backs, sure there are a few wannbes like the guys in their Volkswaggon bus in Pamplona 36 years ago who were talking about how it was great roughing it in Europe while I was sleeping under the bus to get out of the rain.

[mssabai]

mssabai, it sounds like you are the one who needs to get out and see a little of the world..for 90% of these kids Samui is just a stop on the road ..some have backed through a host of countries to get here on their way to India,myanmar, Vietnam or?? most are gone for a year or more with whatever they carry on their backs, sure there are a few wannbes like the guys in their Volkswaggon bus in Pamplona 36 years ago who were talking about how it was great roughing it in Europe while I was sleeping under the bus to get out of the rain.

I am not actually talking just about Samui, but Phangan and Koh Tao as well as Phi Phi, Chiang Mai and all the other backpacker ghettos. I have tried to go out and see a little of the world hence why I moved my entire life to Thailand a year ago. I have done the gap year traveling only a few years ago and then travelled again a couple of years later before finally deciding to settle in Thailand. At 26 I am quite proud of the amount of world I have managed to see. I understand these people's experiences because I have done them. My first trip, I didn't have a clue about where to go and what to do so I followed the hoards. It was a great trip and I will always remember it, but I never had to push myself in any way. Sure it was all new and different, but home comforts were never far away. My second trip I made more of an effort to go to places that weren't so easy. I got so much more out of this trip, my experiences were more genuine, I got myself into genuine pickles, found myself in places where no one spoke english, ate some very bizarre things etc. This trip means so much more to me because of all these reasons. I wish that I had made more of an effort in my gap year to branch off from the tourist trail.

I think perhaps it is you who has a romantic image of todays backpackers. Many have wheeled suitacases alonside 'whatever they can carry on their back'. the term flashpackers has not come about for no reason.

[BigC]

I have been reading very bad comments regarding the back packers who used to come here in their droves, unfortunately they returned to their home countries and told everyone how beautiful Samui "WAS" I did the same. But lets not blame them for what this Island has now turned into. They truely loved Samui and can not be held responsible for the replacing of coconuts with concrete. in fact they did very little damage to the Island and its roads, the greedy money lusting property developers must take the responsabilty for all that and the need for HEAVY construction vehicles on this paradise Island. You know who you are but stop looking down on Backpackers they did nothing wrong their only crime was to come here and enjoy it, not rape it of its beauty.

Food for Thought

The Eye of Lamai

the back packing dreamers have to wake up to real life. People need money. money comes from somewhere other than thier parents pockets. it is nothing to do with greed. it is to do with savival. i personally have a problem with hippy back packers becuase they are happy to take something for free but don't like the people who gives them thier free ride.

example. i knew an english lady back packer who was happy to live an stay with me for free buy them food and drinks. yet i am a property developer who stands against all thier beleifs.

so i will carry on trying to make money while they sit there and moan hoping for someone else to make them rich

[koheesti]

the back packing dreamers have to wake up to real life. People need money. money comes from somewhere other than thier parents pockets. it is nothing to do with greed. it is to do with savival. i personally have a problem with hippy back packers becuase they are happy to take something for free but don't like the people who gives them thier free ride.

example. i knew an english lady back packer who was happy to live an stay with me for free buy them food and drinks. yet i am a property developer who stands against all thier beleifs.

so i will carry on trying to make money while they sit there and moan hoping for someone else to make them rich

Agree about the hippy backpackers. I think what this little debate is missing is the distinction between hippy backpackers with no money living off others and gap year & other backpackers who have money and bathe. I prefer the later.

[sayitaintso]

Agree about the hippy backpackers. I think what this little debate is missing is the distinction between hippy backpackers with no money living off others and gap year & other backpackers who have money and bathe. I prefer the later.

maybe if dirty stinky hippy backpackers were only allowed to live off gap year "LL Bean" backpackers we could do away with all the dirty stinky hippies.

anyone else struggle to resist taking some dirty stinky hippy backpackers "dreadlocks" and wrap them around his neck, choking him unconscious?

nothing makes me angrier than a pacifist

[Mark Wolfe]

...in looking at your ages I doubt if many of you really made those trips or was it just in your heads while watching M-TV,...

What gives you that impression?

It isn't how difficult the travel is, that is no badge of merit; it is the "discovery" factor that is slowly being eaten away by the fact that the "trails" are now ever-more worn and that the "newness" of places has been replaced with comercialization and familiarization.

If you want to have a better trip, or a different one, try going without a guide book.

[mssabai]

I am confused. Does going of the beaten track wanting to get a little closer to the culture who has welcomed you instantly mean that you grow dreadlocks, stop bathing and forget to save any money for the trip?? The smelliest, most dreadlocked travellers I have come across are usually 18 year olds from Oxford who have just had them sewn in on Khao San road - mummy and daddy's credit card stored safely in the bottom of their backpack.

[ClaudeFeller]

Oh yes, and music was better too in these days 30 years ago when we travelled the world. These kids are not like us..

Dont forget: Walking completly drunk in Soi Reggae at 4 am, pockets full of money, with an I-pod and a state-of-the art mobile is more dangerous then travelling Asia 30 years ago without Lonely Planet.

These guys are the real heroes of the traveller scene today!

[Mark Wolfe]

On the actual subject, there are fewer and fewer "backpackers" around these days, I think. Just look at the level of accomodation in Samui -- more and more upscale. On any given evening in Cheweng or Lamai you will see on the street people who for the most part pack their things in a suitcase, if you know what I mean.

And I don't think the backpackers or any travelers are to blame for the popularity of any place. The world is, in effect, shrinking, and will continue to do so. If a place is inhospitable (the very meaning of the word) then people will generally shy away from it; on the other hand, places that are attractive, like Samui, will be heavily trafficked. Look at Phuket and Pattaya and marvel at the encroachment of civilization.

It had to happen.

[Samuian]

No, mssabai, it does sound like a great trip, but I think your image of the people making those trips is a tad idealistic.

Would you mind, as a Moderator in this Forum, to elaborate a bit on this comment sbk?

The most noteable point of Information in those days - leaving Europe overland to India was "The Pudding Shop" in Istanbul/Turkey!

there, on an incredible Pin wall, you could figure out whether the Khyber Pass was closed, which City to book to cross the Pakistani/Indian Border... where to stay in Teheran/Kabul/Kandahar/Herat/Islamabad/Karatschi.... "those were the days my friend...."

I can't decide who I find more absurd, the wannabe hippy backpackers of today, dreads tats,stench and all, or the old backpackers posting here on "the way it was"..........

I've decided they are equally absurd.

Well, then tell us why, "absurd", do you mind?

Edited February 21, 2008 by Samuian

[Samuian]

Man you sound like a bunch of old farts "in my dayyyy" and in looking at your ages I doubt if many of you really made those trips or was it just in your heads while watching M-TV, it can still be tough travelling using local transportation in the back country not knowing the language and ending up goodness knows where, eating strange food just because it's all you can afford...give the kids a break

thanks for "Farts" my dear, in those days, there was no M-TV does THAT make you understand something about "those days"... "strange food" was Indian Curries, Flatbread and the like, wonderful stuff, England is today brimming with Indian restaurants...and it wasn't about "to be able to afford" there were simply no McBurger, Megabucks and the likes selling this horrible mass produced Junk!

And not "being able" to communicate pressured the seasoned traveller to do what? LEARNING! Besides, English is the official language besides hindi (Devanagiri) in India!

there where Phrasebooks even for Balutschi!

Because all of these Countries had Schools, yep believe it and Student too, who were pretty eager to talk to a "stranger" from such a far away Country... it was Fun as it still is - but the World has "grown smaller" - the global village - today it's simply different - but there are still places.... to experience something similiar!

Don't just comment please, read, maybe read again, think and then - PLEASE!

[lazeeboy]

dont knock the backpackers ,in the early days people who had businesses on samui made a lot more money than they do now ,mainly from the backpackers

[LivinLOS]

There are not many places untouched by western influence, however their are definitely still some unspoiled places (sans phone reception, hot water, email etc) that will remain so until the ant like march of the gap years includes them in their itinerary. The people who do make it to these places are usually far more interesting and sensitive to their environs than the hoards that make it to Had Rin and Phi Phi etc etc and whose requirements involve indedikit movie bars, multiple 7-11s and nightly parties.

Try travelling overland from the easily accessible bali along the south coast of java.. Nias.. Up to Ache..

Rice and water, no mobile signal, strange cops, plenty of experiences..

Interesting feral surfers and off the map types too..

And thats just a short hop away.

[LivinLOS]

The most noteable point of Information in those days - leaving Europe overland to India was "The Pudding Shop" in Istanbul/Turkey!

there, on an incredible Pin wall, you could figure out whether the Khyber Pass was closed, which City to book to cross the Pakistani/Indian Border... where to stay in Teheran/Kabul/Kandahar/Herat/Islamabad/Karatschi.... "those were the days my friend...." long before Jo Cummins and Lonely Planet Guides... and the like, it WAS pure Adventure! There were no proper maps, about trekking routes in Nepal...only info from the pin walls in Pig Streets Pie Shops in Kathmandu....Ladakh was "Off the Planet", so was Mustang... ahh well...there were times hardly anybody knew what "Goa" was..

*sigh* I would love to have donned my rose tinted glasses and taken a trip like that.

My uncle auntie and 2 other adults and all thier stuff drive a VW bug from England to S India via that route.. Saw someones photjournal recently having done it in a landcruiser and wonder how they made it.

I spent much of my childhood living in hippy busses doing the Morocco and N african trail. Casablanca, zagora, right down into the N sahara. Years of no school and travelling.

[choppychugger]

I have been reading very bad comments regarding the back packers who used to come here in their droves, unfortunately they returned to their home countries and told everyone how beautiful Samui "WAS" I did the same. But lets not blame them for what this Island has now turned into. They truely loved Samui and can not be held responsible for the replacing of coconuts with concrete. in fact they did very little damage to the Island and its roads, the greedy money lusting property developers must take the responsabilty for all that and the need for HEAVY construction vehicles on this paradise Island. You know who you are but stop looking down on Backpackers they did nothing wrong their only crime was to come here and enjoy it, not rape it of its beauty.

Food for Thought

The Eye of Lamai

So it wasn't you who handed out a copy of the map from " Daffy "....?