War On Drugs To Be Revived

[sriracha john]

From Today's Daily Telegraph.

Pretty good publicity for our new government.

Thailand threat to shoot 4,000 in drug war

The interior minister Chalerm Yubamrung, said: "When we implement a policy that may bring 3,000 to 4,000 bodies, we will do it,"

Well, well, well--forgive me, but don't sue me [ or come round at night and shoot me!], if I'm wrong--but isn't this gentleman, the new interior minister, a Mr. Chalerm Yubamrung, the father of a nice young boy called DuangChalerm Yubamrung [??] one who executed a police sergeant in a BKK nightclub, shot him in the head whilst his cronies were holding him, alledgedly that is, and had to do a runner for a while--or am I mixing all these Yubamrungs up--I didn't write this, by the way--my cat did.

You got it all right except that it was his brother that held down the police sargent, not cronies.

*edit... and oh yes, one more thing. Chalerm changed his son's name to Duang from Duangchalerm.

*edit II.... my darn dog wrote this... sorry.

Edited February 23, 2008 by sriracha john

[haybilly]

From Today's Daily Telegraph.

Pretty good publicity for our new government.

Thailand threat to shoot 4,000 in drug war

By Thomas Bell in Bangkok

Last Updated: 1:52am GMT 23/02/2008

The new Thai government is to relaunch the country's "war on drugs" which killed more than 2,500 people allegedly involved in the trade.

During a three-month killing spree in 2003 as intense as a full-scale armed conflict, thousands named on police "black lists" were shot dead, allegedly on government orders.

Yet the government's narcotics control board concluded that more than half the victims had no involvement in drugs. One couple from north-eastern Thailand were shot dead after coming into unexplained wealth and being added to a black list. They were, in fact, lottery winners.

advertisementThe campaign was one of the principal policies of Thaksin Shinawatra, the former prime minister and Mr Samak's political patron, who now lives in exile and owns Manchester City Football Club.

"My government will decisively implement a policy against drug trafficking. Government officials must implement this policy 24 hours a day, but I will not set a target for how many people should die," said Samak Sundaravej, the new prime minister.

The interior minister Chalerm Yubamrung, said: "When we implement a policy that may bring 3,000 to 4,000 bodies, we will do it,"

Although the military junta which overthrew Mr Thaksin in 2006 called the killings "a crime against humanity", the former premier and his supporters - who were re-elected in December - insist that the dead were the victims of gang warfare, not police killings.

Yet there is strong evidence of police involvement. Many were shot days after being summoned to defend themselves before local authorities or after reporting to a police station to have their name removed from the "black list".

The government ordered the police to compile "back lists" which were as comprehensive as possible, then shorten the list by 25 per cent every month. Often the only way off the list was death.

Well, well, well--forgive me, but don't sue me [ or come round at night and shoot me!], if I'm wrong--but isn't this gentleman, the new interior minister, a Mr. Chalerm Yubamrung, the father of a nice young boy called DuangChalerm Yubamrung [??] one who executed a police sergeant in a BKK nightclub, shot him in the head whilst his cronies were holding him, alledgedly that is, and had to do a runner for a while--or am I mixing all these Yubamrungs up--I didn't write this, by the way--my cat did.

As I thought --The Sins of the Fathers--or should this read 'The Sins of the Sons' in this case ? Have a look at this link for a bit more on the subject: http://thailand-to-timbuktu.blogspot.com/2...side-still.html Execution of people that get in your way seems in the blood.

Edited February 23, 2008 by haybilly

[haybilly]

From Today's Daily Telegraph.

Pretty good publicity for our new government.

Thailand threat to shoot 4,000 in drug war

By Thomas Bell in Bangkok

Last Updated: 1:52am GMT 23/02/2008

The new Thai government is to relaunch the country's "war on drugs" which killed more than 2,500 people allegedly involved in the trade.

During a three-month killing spree in 2003 as intense as a full-scale armed conflict, thousands named on police "black lists" were shot dead, allegedly on government orders.

Yet the government's narcotics control board concluded that more than half the victims had no involvement in drugs. One couple from north-eastern Thailand were shot dead after coming into unexplained wealth and being added to a black list. They were, in fact, lottery winners.

advertisementThe campaign was one of the principal policies of Thaksin Shinawatra, the former prime minister and Mr Samak's political patron, who now lives in exile and owns Manchester City Football Club.

"My government will decisively implement a policy against drug trafficking. Government officials must implement this policy 24 hours a day, but I will not set a target for how many people should die," said Samak Sundaravej, the new prime minister.

The interior minister Chalerm Yubamrung, said: "When we implement a policy that may bring 3,000 to 4,000 bodies, we will do it,"

Although the military junta which overthrew Mr Thaksin in 2006 called the killings "a crime against humanity", the former premier and his supporters - who were re-elected in December - insist that the dead were the victims of gang warfare, not police killings.

Yet there is strong evidence of police involvement. Many were shot days after being summoned to defend themselves before local authorities or after reporting to a police station to have their name removed from the "black list".

The government ordered the police to compile "back lists" which were as comprehensive as possible, then shorten the list by 25 per cent every month. Often the only way off the list was death.

Well, well, well--forgive me, but don't sue me [ or come round at night and shoot me!], if I'm wrong--but isn't this gentleman, the new interior minister, a Mr. Chalerm Yubamrung, the father of a nice young boy called DuangChalerm Yubamrung [??] one who executed a police sergeant in a BKK nightclub, shot him in the head whilst his cronies were holding him, alledgedly that is, and had to do a runner for a while--or am I mixing all these Yubamrungs up--I didn't write this, by the way--my cat did.

As I thought --The Sins of the Fathers--or should this read 'The Sins of the Sons' in this case ? Have a look at this link for a bit more on the subject: http://thailand-to-timbuktu.blogspot.com/2...side-still.html Execution of people that get in your way seems in the blood.

One more to take a look at this time from our very own TV.com, of course. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/...hp/t170588.html Just so we all know who we are dealing with--who really are the criminals?

[apetley]

Back in 2003 the wife and I were returning from a visit to a friend by way of a small country road.

It was about 8pm, very dark and very quiet.

From out of nowhere we were flagged down by a group of about 10 men in a pickup.

2 or 3 of them pointed a handgun and automatic rifle directly at me and started asking questions.

I was very scared! Especially as it was obvious some of them had been drinking.

Fortunately one of the guys in the back of the pickup recognised my wife as she had once worked in the admin department of the local police station.

It turned out they were police looking for 'drug dealers'.

Not a professional outfit, more like a lynching party.

I am not sure if they got anyone that night but the next day a guy was shot dead very early in the local market.

The official word is that he was a drug dealer, the locals knew that he was one of the saddo glue sniffers.

More of the same this time around?

[ozzydom]

I wonder has this item hit the overseas headlines yet.

Could be a few visitor cancellations in the near future.

[Ricardo]

The last "Drug War" in LOS got some REALLY GREAT publicity. Recently watched a special on National Geographic on Meth (Yaba) and they had plenty of footage of "heroic" soldiers and police standing over dead bodies whilst under the Thaksin regime.

They can do what the Chinese did and are still rumored of doing. Summary execution of all drug dealers, drug addicts, and their entire families, even if they weren't drug addicts themselves and it won't slow down the drug trade one bit. Scary watching footage of scores of people from construction workers to taxi drivers smoking Yaba. It is well known that foremen give it to the workers at the beginning of their shift to increase productivity in LOS.

Yes illicit drugs are a scourge and should be treated as such. But as long as you give someone the opportunity to make in 1 day day more than he makes in a year there will always be drugs available. All harsh drug policies have done is fill the prisons in the US, and SEA not to mention fill the fields with dead bodies. Until the "War on Drugs" is treated as a social and health problem there will be no dent made in the sale or use of narcotics.

GunnyD

Number One: We were hesitant to walk the streets at night prior to Dr. Thaksin's war-on-drugs because of the almost ubiquitous presence of methamphetemine (=ya baa) addicts walking around here. That problem disappeared quickly-- I mean, REAL QUICKLY-- with the remedies employed. Thank God.

Number Two: China is not Thailand and Thailand is not China.

Number Three : Innocent is not Guilty, and should not have resulted in more than 1400 deaths of innocents, when guilt or innocence could surely have usually been determined by the Courts instead.

Perhaps a reasonable compromise might be, after proven Guilty in court, and fully understanding that it is not a perfect system, to pass a death-sentance legally, thus reducing the number of innocents murdered ?

[sweetchariot]

I wonder has this item hit the overseas headlines yet.

Could be a few visitor cancellations in the near future.

Try post number 39

[sriracha john]

I wonder has this item hit the overseas headlines yet.

Could be a few visitor cancellations in the near future.

Among others:

Monsters Retake Thailand's Government and Vow to Resume Mass Drug War Murders

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1808999

Reuters:

Thai PM vows "rigorous" war on drugs despite outcry

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1833622

Agence France Presse (AFP):

Thai PM pledges to revive deadly anti-drugs drive

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1833854

Daily Telegraph (UK):

Thailand threat to shoot 4,000 in drug war

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1834175

[Lourens]

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[haybilly]

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Might just take your advice--had my fingers burnt before.

[seonai]

This is seriously BAD news for Thailand. If they actually arrest/charge/shoot some of the real big drug dealers ie politicians and policemen I will be very surprised...

[howtoescape]

Could be a few visitor cancellations in the near future.

No one will cancel their holidays, as in truth we might say its wrong on an internet forum but no one cares that much so long as it isnt happenning to them.

No one can or will do anything about it. Not Amnesty International or any other human rights organisation, no foreign government, the UN, The Asian Federation Against Involuntary Disappearances etc etc....

Basically they can go on their merry way kill who they like and nothing will be done, hence why they can go on record as saying they are going to kill drug dealers.

Thailand is a Banana Republic its lawlessness is what makes the people the way they are and attracts us to keep on coming.

[solent01]

Here we go again, the uneducated, being led by the belligerent few........

[sriracha john]

Could be a few visitor cancellations in the near future.

No one will cancel their holidays, as in truth we might say its wrong on an internet forum but no one cares that much so long as it isnt happenning to them.

No one can or will do anything about it. Not Amnesty International or any other human rights organisation, no foreign government, the UN, The Asian Federation Against Involuntary Disappearances etc etc....

Basically they can go on their merry way kill who they like and nothing will be done, hence why they can go on record as saying they are going to kill drug dealers.

Thailand is a Banana Republic its lawlessness is what makes the people the way they are and attracts us to keep on coming.

I think that's true for a niche market of people, such as soon-to-be expats here or certain adventure-seekers... but there's a whole group of OTHER people, such as Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public with their 3 kids from Wichita, Kansas who would most definitely respond to this sort of news and voice their opinion by switching their tickets to a Bermuda vacation. Those sorts of tourists number in the millions.

(btw, you can insert Tomatsu Hiyakartu with the little missus from Japan, Pak Don Kim with his brother from Korea, or Sven Olfsson and his elderly mother from northern Sweden for the Publics and Guam, Hawaii or the Maldives for Bermuda).

[YaiJung]

Oh boy, another drug war. Lock your doors and batten down the hatches. During the last "war" the price of meth more than quadrupled and the local junkies on our soi in phuket went on major crime binges in order to pay the increased price. No, none of them stopped using, and no the supply was not cut. Drugs everywhere just like before, but now they cost way more. Anyone who actually believes that the last drug war worked needs to pull their head out of their a$$.

Now the police are happy cause they can get more money in bribes and the dealers are happy cause they can charge more. who is the biggest loser? if u ask me its the average joe who has seen the threat to his safety go through the roof cause now the stakes have been raised the the drug game.

The corruption in Thailand is sickening and feels quite hopeless at times.

[solent01]

Well only time will tell what impact this will have on tourist numbers, but with words of this magnitude coming from the leading party, you just know its going to hit the fan........ again.

I guess some people just don't learn?

Edit....

I fear that you are right YaiJung, the problem needs addressing, yet this is such the wrong way to deal with it, that said though, has any country found the correct responce to the problem?

Edited February 23, 2008 by solent01

[howtoescape]

I think that's true for a niche market of people, such as soon-to-be expats here or certain adventure-seekers... but there's a whole group of OTHER people, such as Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public with their 3 kids from Wichita, Kansas who would most definitely respond to this sort of news and voice their opinion by switching their tickets to a Bermuda vacation. Those sorts of tourists number in the millions.

(btw, you can insert Tomatsu Hiyakartu with the little missus from Japan, Pak Don Kim with his brother from Korea, or Sven Olfsson and his elderly mother from northern Sweden for the Publics and Guam, Hawaii or the Maldives for Bermuda)

I dont think a few million fewer tourists would make a blind bit of difference to these people, besides there are new tourist nations filling up the coffers from Russia and China who are used to this happenning at home.

A drugs massacre 4 years ago, Military Coups, Tsunami, Bird Flu, baht rising, more expensive flights, constantly getting ripped off/hassled far more then before hasnt dented tourism so i cant see why another murdering spree would.

In the future if this country ever sorts itself out then these murderers will be brought to justice for what they done 4 years ago and for any other nurders they commit.

[Ijustwannateach]

This is really disappointing news. All I remember from last time is news of children getting caught in crossfires- no one could prove it was the police's responsibility, because (as they said) there is no registry of police guns (their firing signatures) because the police have to buy all their guns with their own money, privately.

Jaw-dropping.

@S@

[seonai]

This news is really BAD ... wait to see what will happen... not nice

[plachon]

This news is really BAD ... wait to see what will happen... not nice

Let's hope the cops don't mix up their new list of farangs in the neighbourhood, (which another thread has reported is on the increase), with their drugs blacklist.

No, not a nice thought at all..............

[Mobi]

I dont think a few million fewer tourists would make a blind bit of difference to these people, besides there are new tourist nations filling up the coffers from Russia and China who are used to this happenning at home.

A drugs massacre 4 years ago, Military Coups, Tsunami, Bird Flu, baht rising, more expensive flights, constantly getting ripped off/hassled far more then before hasnt dented tourism so i cant see why another murdering spree would.

I'm afraid that I have to agree with you.

I don't have any hard figures to hand but from what I've read, the tourist numbers just keep going up.

As much as many farangs here keep predicting doom and gloom to the tourist industry it just isn't happening - that's the reality.

Sure, there's plenty of folk who will not come to Thailand or return to Thailand for all the reasons you have mentioned, and sure the tourist industry would be doing even better if it wasn't for all this negative stuff, but the fact remains that the industry is still buoyant, and the government doesn't give two hoots if some families prefer to go elsewhere.

[sriracha john]

The arrival numbers have been stagnant for the past 2 to 3 years...at around 11 - 14 million. It's been years since the big increases of 15-20% year on year occured... and yet the new government is counting on, not a 15% increase, but an all-of-a-sudden THREE to FOUR-fold jump to 45 million in order to fund all its pie-in-the-sky schemes and scams... when in actuality, if these sort of mass murders start to happen, they'll be extremely lucky to keep their current stagnant numbers.

[apetley]

Here's a yet another quote from Thailands glorious leader.

"I want people to understand that in order to fulfill the government's anti-drug war, extrajudicial killings do occur and that police officers responsible for these acts will have to face the legal consequences...

....In the past, there have only been 59 cases in which police officers have had to go to court to face charges of extrajudicial killings."

I would be very interested to learn how many of those (only!!!)59 cases resulted in a successful prosecution.

My guess is......let me think.......zero?

[DP25]

I wonder if this decision will affect any of the recent arms sales. I'm sure Ukraine won't care and the APCs will be delivered, but if Thailand begins executing thousands of people without trial I wonder if Sweden would reconsider its sale of Grippen fighter jets.

[mogoso]

Can't feel sorry about dead drug dealers ,. if i found a dealer trying to push drugs to my kids , i would also shoot first and ask questions latter,.

As far as drugs go I'm a libertarian, I don't do them, don't advocate doing them. The laws in Thailand are what they are. If you do or sell drugs you must expect the consequences of your actions. It'd be nice to have a trial ie the Malaysian way, then put them to death if that is the law. But from a drug dealers point of view if facing life or 40-50 years for certain in jail, shooting it out to either get away or get it over quickly with a bullet, might be their preference, hence the high number of deaths.

I'm quite sure there are grudges to settle by certain officers, but when someone takes aim at me they better make sure as to the kill, as I would fire with certainly to kill if I was a police officer.

The drug I see them targeting mostly is yaa bah a drug I see as a real menace to both users and anyone they come in contact with. Ain't nothing ulgier than a speed freak skinny covered with sores chewing on their lips purely disgusting.

[lazeeboy]

should give the police some shooting pratice for a while

[Dupont]

thailand will have a hard time to execute all the drug dealers, because it will have to convince the police to shot themselves.

Exactly, weve seen a policeman kill a Canadian recently for what seems like a drunken argument, they can just go round killing whoever has annoyed them in their private life and blame it on drug dealing.

At places like the fullmoon party there will have to be a monthly massacre, are you all happy for farangs to get shot on the spot, they might get you by mistake.

I had the misfortune to visit Koh Phang Ngan three years ago. We avoided the full moon party only to find they have a black moon or no moon party.

The vast majority of the westerners there were totally off their heads and openly consuming and selling drugs. In our countries, everybody knows the dealers but nobody does anything about it as the burden of proof is so high and nobody has the time to stake them out properly.

These naive kids that have found their way here without meeting any real thias should be rounded up and have the crap scared out of them. They are as bad as the Asian package tourists we all laugh at.. Here we go, Khoa San Road, (tick box) Surat Thani, (tick box) Full Moon Party (tick Box), Chaing Mai see elephant and tribesperson (tick box). Stoned all the way, only mingling with other dead head backpackers and then considering themselves well travelled.

They have been warned!! They are from supposed superior countries and should know better.

A lot of this may be to scare people off. Its quite right that anybody in drugs is crapping themselves now. Maybe some of them may even pack it in and grow up.

Having witnessed first hand, the degeneration of entire housing estates and suburbs in the North West of England in the 80's and 90's, I and many otheres would support a bullet to the head of the ones involved. Balls to a trial, we, they and the police know who they are but they have the protection of a barrage of well paid (from the public purse) lawyers and liberal thinkers.

Do drugs and die! Som Nam Na

[burman]

Still shocked here that many so called educated westerners believe execution without trial is fair justice.

Dupont, after all your complaints on backpackers can I ask where you spent your first holiday in Thailand?

[DP25]

The vast majority of the westerners there were totally off their heads and openly consuming and selling drugs. In our countries, everybody knows the dealers but nobody does anything about it as the burden of proof is so high and nobody has the time to stake them out properly.

These naive kids that have found their way here without meeting any real thias should be rounded up and have the crap scared out of them. They are as bad as the Asian package tourists we all laugh at.. Here we go, Khoa San Road, (tick box) Surat Thani, (tick box) Full Moon Party (tick Box), Chaing Mai see elephant and tribesperson (tick box). Stoned all the way, only mingling with other dead head backpackers and then considering themselves well travelled.

Do drugs and die! Som Nam Na

I hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of these young backpackers you seem to hate so much are on nothing more than alcohol, not drugs. Although I'm sure you interviewed hundreds of them before coming to your conclusion that they're all drug addled trash. Not like those fine gentlemen down on Walking Street.

If you seriously think someone who does drugs once deserves the death penalty, rather than say treatment or even jail time, that is very scary indeed. Maybe they should just execute on the spot anyone who fails the urine test when the police do their weekly drug raids at clubs and gogo bars. I hope you don't test a false positive.

[YaiJung]

Still shocked here that many so called educated westerners believe execution without trial is fair justice.

Dupont, after all your complaints on backpackers can I ask where you spent your first holiday in Thailand?

No doubt belly up to the bar with a hooker under each arm...

Usually people like Dupont are boozers and the worst kind of hypocrite.