marshbags Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) The Nation,Sat, March 8, 2008 : Last updated 8:30 hours OFF THE BENCH Confessions of a young and dangerous mind The following took place during the investigation into an alleged cheating case during the recent Ordinary National Educational Test, in which more than 300,000 high-school students took the crucial exam to determine whether they would be able to enter university.Published on March 8, 2008 The following was the result of an unofficial interrogation and shall not be used for any reference. As the investigation is not final, we must withhold the name of the student. Let's hear what's on this student's mind: "Don't judge me before you hear what I have to say. What could a failing student like me do to pass the exam? I decided to take a chance on this exam because it will determine the rest of my life. "This test will decide whether I will be accepted by the university. It will determine my future. My mother wants me to become a doctor. And she does not like the song 'Que Sera Sera'. "My parents said they always dreamt of seeing me graduate from an elite university. Of course, I realise that there are many people who graduate from open universities and manage to be successful. But you have to understand that the name of the school also counts in our social life. "In fact, I don't like studying so it does not matter which college I go to. But my family, with their outstanding academic records, don't expect their child to be a mediocre student. "If you think my life is easy, try joining our family reunion dining table. During the party, parents with not-so-smart children tend to stay silent when asked what their children are doing. "The parents who have children in medical school can brag with pride, while the parents whose children have no academic achievements want to hide their faces under the table cloth. When my parents were asked where I would study next year, they promised the guests at the dining table, 'Well, either Thammasat or Chula.' "To prepare for the exam, I tried to memorise the textbooks. But I could not concentrate for long. After browsing through a couple of pages, I could not resist the temptation to check computer games on-line. "Some of my senior school mates told me that the situation was worse in the past when all students had to go through one central examination. That one judgement day would determine the future of your life, so I was told. "These days, we have O-Net and A-Net [Advanced National Education Test] scores, which can give us a second chance. But frankly, I don't think it changed anything. My friends and I were still going to cram schools because they give you tricks on how to cross the right answers. I am not sure if we are more analytical than our predecessors because the tests didn't require us to think but to memorise. "As the exam date drew near, I felt the pressure. It doesn't help that the Education Ministry decided to increase the subjects from 5 to 8, meaning I have to memorise more subjects. I had to think of short cuts to succeed. "'It does not matter how you pass. People care only about the result,' one of my friends said. 'Who cares how you became rich. If you're rich, people think you must be good at something.' "So I started to use my pea brain to think of how to succeed in such a short period. Cheating isn't so bad, considering the son of a leader, whose name I forget, cheated in class but no one punished him. The success of cheating depends on whether you can get away with it. "Some of my friends used the old technique of passing a rubber with the answer on it in the exam room. I thought that trick was so lame, it has been used for decades. Teachers are accustomed to it. Then, a friend told me of the new wristwatch-cellphone. Someone can SMS the answers through this phone. My friend told me not to worry about the teachers. They had no idea about the evolution of this phone. These teachers' salary is not enough to buy this new gadget anyway. "So, I asked my parents for the money to buy this phone, claiming that I needed to attend a cram-school course. I know my parents' weakness. They wanted me to pass the exam so badly. "When the exam date came, the trick was a success. Teachers didn't know what this gadget was capable of. I managed to pass four tests before the technique was revealed on a web-board. I was caught and the rest is history. "Now I am sitting in front of you, it's hard to say if I am repentant. Perhaps it was just unlucky that I was caught red-handed. If only, if only, I could have got away with it. I simply hope that my family is powerful enough to stop the current staff who are investigating the case. And then they install a new group of teachers who will be more easily convinced that the cheating never happened." Signed: A Student. jeerawat na thalang The Nation Unquote. The Quote in red, while it is matter of fact and honest, is very disturbing when you consider the actions of their so called peers. This for me is the most disturbing scenario of past and present attitudes / actions of certain people in government, and it,s passing down to their kin ect. ect. It is unbecoming of what authorities are expected to ( should ) be and their examples to the less priviliged who follow their moves and consequently think it is O.K. to cheat, so long as you gain privilege / get rich from it. We who care, spend our lives teaching our children right from wrong ect. ect. and to treat those who deserve it with respect and the considerations that go with it, irrespective of status. This doesn,t mean we do not at the same time try to make them aware of what others do and to be wary of them !!!!! While many of PUYAI / PRIVILEGED undermine us and teach their children " given " right is theirs so long as they have they have the power, what it incorporates and their consequent self serving outcomes, gained at the expense of others. IMH and PO as always marshbags and ened Edited March 8, 2008 by marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seonai Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 What the hel* does this mean in all reality Marshbags dear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbowman1993 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 The lack of responsibility among students is a worldwide phenomenon, and is not linked only to Thai students. That being said, you never hear about the students who are doing things the right way, growing into young and responsible adults (I would say that this covers the majority, rather than the minority). Its only the bad apples who make the news, and cause us to bemoan the fact that today's youth have "lost their way". I would propose that the perception of this lost generation is more the fault of the news media, who choose to only highlight negative stories, as it sells more copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric1949 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 What the hel* does this mean in all reality Marshbags dear? Quite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrt273nva Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 That student seems to have a grip on reality. There are many students who don't care if they pass or not. at least this student recognized his own shortcomings yet still strives for success. Survival of the fittest. This student has the foresight to realize that if he doesn't get into a good school that he will be hurt socially, and financially. It is only too bad that he didn't have that foresight during normal study hours. Sure in the long run he is only hurting himself, but not as bad as if he were to give up on the whole thing altogether. He used a natural thought process of "risk and rewards" to gauge if cheating would benefit him. He was caught so it didn't benefit him, but he also didn't lose much either. Had he gotten away with it (like so many others) then he would be in a much better position than he was going into the exam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizhin Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I was disappointed after reading the news. Slowly, but surely, these student would be nothing but corrupted people who would use any means necessary to reach their goal. They would do anything, with the risk for being caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingjok Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 During the party, parents with not-so-smart children tend to stay silent when asked what their children are doing. "The parents who have children in medical school can brag with pride, while the parents whose children have no academic achievements want to hide their faces under the table cloth... Good God! I'm glad I don't get invited to that kind of 'party'. What a bunch of twits. Deeply uncool. Maybe the point of the story is that, after all, the guy was caught. Then he has the cojones not to slink off and hide, but stands up and says yes, I did it, and this is why. He deserves to go far and I wish the young man all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 What the hel* does this mean in all reality Marshbags dear? If Marshbags doesn't mind, I'll take a stab at it. When Thaksin's son, Oak, attended Ramkhamhaeng University he was caught cheating on an exam. Nothing really happened to him at the time, although he eventually did drop out and subsequently attended another university, where he graduated... and today is a billionaire. This is the reference the hapless cheating student wrote about in the OP's red text. It's a very tragic situation on another level as well... where so much emphasis is put on these entrace exams. Every year there are suicides by those that didn't do as well as they had hoped, even though they may have passed. As the article states, tremendous pressures are placed upon these teens, and the article is very accurate in it's portrayal of the importance of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 THIS certainly didn't happen to Thaksin's son, Oak... Institute decides to fail exam cheat The National Institute of Educational Testing Service has decided to fail the 12th-grader caught cheating in the Ordinary National Education Test (O-net) last week. Sangob Laksana, the Chairman of the institute, announced the decision yesterday. The student, whose name has been withheld, was caught cheating using a mobile-phone wristwatch after having sat for five exams. The student was supposed to take six exams altogether for the O-net. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/08Mar2008_news13.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spasticated Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I would rather see a world with more emphasis on people working hard and doing there job properly to the best of their ability and being rewarded for this regardless of mental or physical assets "street cleaner to doctor" its nice if you are born clever but most of us arent myself included, its easy to steal cheat and lie a real man/woman doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHarries Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Consider the de facto acceptance of cheating by certain segments of society and the potential knock on effects. This student knows he can't make the grade for the university so he cheats to avoid failure and thus take his place in the halls of learning. Having taken the easy course it becomes second nature to continue the practice through his higher educations and achieve the requisite grades to take up the lucrative position so desirable to his family. "This test will decide whether I will be accepted by the university. It will determine my future. My mother wants me to become a doctor. And then he becomes a doctor! This out and out cheat then has other, probably poorer, peoples lives in his hands. What's he going to do then, SMS his peers for advice or join ThaiVisa and start threads in the health forum? Who is to blame for this situation is an interesting question. The pushy parents, the weak lazy student or the society that tolerates such behaviour? btw I have deliberately avoided reference to Thailand cognisant of the fact that cheating through school/university is not limited to any one country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payboy Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) THIS certainly didn't happen to Thaksin's son, Oak... in fact, the dean of ramkhamhaeng came out to say then that cheating in exams was quite common and therefore not newsworthy at all! Edited March 8, 2008 by Payboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wamberal Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Several years ago I did a long consulting assignment with a large Thai organisation. My main counterpart, who ended up heading the organisation, sent his daughter to the States to do an MBA. She struggled big-time, so he ordered his staff (some of whom had MBAs) to do her assignments for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Several years ago I did a long consulting assignment with a large Thai organisation. My main counterpart, who ended up heading the organisation, sent his daughter to the States to do an MBA. She struggled big-time, so he ordered his staff (some of whom had MBAs) to do her assignments for her. That would explain Thaksin's English-language dissertation for a PhD obtained in the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevykanteve Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 THIS certainly didn't happen to Thaksin's son, Oak...Institute decides to fail exam cheat The National Institute of Educational Testing Service has decided to fail the 12th-grader caught cheating in the Ordinary National Education Test (O-net) last week. Sangob Laksana, the Chairman of the institute, announced the decision yesterday. The student, whose name has been withheld, was caught cheating using a mobile-phone wristwatch after having sat for five exams. The student was supposed to take six exams altogether for the O-net. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/08Mar2008_news13.php I should think that he was failed for one reason only: the negative publicity that resulted in face-loss for certain administrators. Normally, Thai students are not failed for any reason (including cheating). If an instructor fails a student, that instructor must assume responsibility for said student in terms of giving him/her a second chance to pass via out-of-class tutoring. In that context, the message from administration is thinly-veiled yet clear: "it would be appropriate to pass him/her next time". Many people simply refer to this way of doing things in Thailand as the "no-fail" system. I'd love to elaborate on these points in terms of graduate-school standards. Gosh, would I ever!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevykanteve Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Several years ago I did a long consulting assignment with a large Thai organisation. My main counterpart, who ended up heading the organisation, sent his daughter to the States to do an MBA. She struggled big-time, so he ordered his staff (some of whom had MBAs) to do her assignments for her. That would explain Thaksin's English-language dissertation for a PhD obtained in the States. If somebody said that about my Ph.D. (and I do have one), I would sue them. You're implying that Dr. Thaksin had others write his Ph.D. for him. You don't know that and you can't prove that. Don't degrade your political opinions by using cheap-shots like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) Several years ago I did a long consulting assignment with a large Thai organisation. My main counterpart, who ended up heading the organisation, sent his daughter to the States to do an MBA. She struggled big-time, so he ordered his staff (some of whom had MBAs) to do her assignments for her. That would explain Thaksin's English-language dissertation for a PhD obtained in the States. If somebody said that about my Ph.D. (and I do have one), I would sue them. You're implying that Dr. Thaksin had others write his Ph.D. for him. You don't know that and you can't prove that. Don't degrade your political opinions by using cheap-shots like that. The proof is in the pudding as they say. If you listen to more than 5 minutes of him speaking in English and then actually believe this Elmer Fudd sound-alike actually conducted the oral defense in English of his dissertation to a PhD Board.... well, as they also say, I got a bridge for sale. If you've ever read any of his writings in English and then think his level of communication in English would actually pass muster with the same PhD Board, the same sales offer applies. Rather than "degrade my political opinion"... it's looking at things honestly and as they are based and evidenced by reality.... Rather than a "cheap shot" it's a shot of realism... but on the subject of degrading...if you are saying the quality of work you produced for your PhD is similar to his, it's degrading yourself. *btw, I don't believe for a minute that yours was... Edited March 8, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnake Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Most all perceive right from wrong they just do it anyway, which is the same world over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevykanteve Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Several years ago I did a long consulting assignment with a large Thai organisation. My main counterpart, who ended up heading the organisation, sent his daughter to the States to do an MBA. She struggled big-time, so he ordered his staff (some of whom had MBAs) to do her assignments for her. That would explain Thaksin's English-language dissertation for a PhD obtained in the States. If somebody said that about my Ph.D. (and I do have one), I would sue them. You're implying that Dr. Thaksin had others write his Ph.D. for him. You don't know that and you can't prove that. Don't degrade your political opinions by using cheap-shots like that. The proof is in the pudding as they say. If you listen to more than 5 minutes of him speaking in English and then actually believe this Elmer Fudd sound-alike actually conducted the oral defense in English of his dissertation to a PhD Board.... well, as they also say, I got a bridge for sale. If you've ever read any of his writings in English and then think his level of communication in English would actually pass muster with the same PhD Board, the same sales offer applies. Rather than "degrade my political opinion"... it's looking at things honestly and as they are based and evidenced by reality.... Rather than a "cheap shot" it's a shot of realism... but on the subject of degrading...if you are saying the quality of work you produced for your PhD is similar to his, it's degrading yourself. *btw, I don't believe for a minute that yours was... PM me if you want details RE my Ph.D. (School of Oriental and African Studies, U. of London; BA UC Berkeley; Post Doc fellowship Princeton U., etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) No need... as stated, I don't believe yours and his level of English is similar. A single Thaivisa post is more than Thaksin could manage. Calling him "Dr." is a disservice to all legitimate-holders of the title. Edited March 8, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barky Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 THIS certainly didn't happen to Thaksin's son, Oak... in fact, the dean of ramkhamhaeng came out to say then that cheating in exams was quite common and therefore not newsworthy at all! Shame on the dean. What a great role model? That's right deany, you keep your head in the sand like most of your compatriots. That's a great way to prepare the future resourses of your country for the ever increasing competitive world. This type of inaction/aquiesence will stiffle chances for the young to compete for good jobs on the world market. (Well I guess someone has to wait on the tables of Thai restaurants overseas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevykanteve Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 No need... as stated, I don't believe yours and his level of English is similar. A single Thaivisa post is more than Thaksin could manage. Calling him "Dr." is a disservice to all legitimate-holders of the title. So, you are saying that he does not in fact have a Ph.D.? If that is what you mean, please say so. If that is not in fact what you mean, kindly state exactly what it is that you mean by (quote) Calling him "Dr." is a disservice to all legitimate-holders of the title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierrot Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I can’t believe people fall for that !!! First clue : It’s from The Nation. Then how come a student able to write such a well argumented plea needs to resort to cheating to pass an exam? Then the reference to “the son of someone I can’t remember the name” Wouldn’t it be Mr Thaksin? It’s the Nation after all, beside trash talk about Mr Thaksin, they haven’t much to say. Then the final paragraph : "Now I am sitting in front of you, it's hard to say if I am repentant. Perhaps it was just unlucky that I was caught red-handed. If only, if only, I could have got away with it. I simply hope that my family is powerful enough to stop the current staff who are investigating the case. And then they install a new group of teachers who will be more easily convinced that the cheating never happened." Forget the son, that’s daddy they’re after. And it works, this thread turns to Thaksin bashing as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Tolerance of cheating at Thai universities is well-known. The case of Thaksin's son being caught cheating at Ramkhamhaeng University in his exams there and then going on to graduate is a good example. But if there is a silver lining, it is that he was booted out of Thamasart University for failing to make the grade. So, while cheating is widespread and thus degrees are often meaningless in this country, I would need to say that Chulalongkorn and Thamasart are the exception. I invigilated at a private university in Thailand and was amazed not only by the extent of people cheating (often over 50% of the students in the room with a lax invigilator and multiple choice questions) but also by the speed with which they were returned to the exam room by the head examiner after being booted out along with a message, "Why do you want to ruin this young person's life?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellow1 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I say keep cheating. Make sure that foreigners are never allowed to compete in anything worthwhile , as it's done now. This way no one will ever know, or care. Best of luck to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsplat Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Honesty is not a useful commodity in Asia. People don't trade upon their trustworthiness here, as say, a diamond trader in New York might rely upon it. You do better without honesty in Asia. So, know the rules. Get over it. Don't send money every month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 No need... as stated, I don't believe yours and his level of English is similar. A single Thaivisa post is more than Thaksin could manage. Calling him "Dr." is a disservice to all legitimate-holders of the title. So, you are saying that he does not in fact have a Ph.D.? If that is what you mean, please say so. If that is not in fact what you mean, kindly state exactly what it is that you mean by (quote) Calling him "Dr." is a disservice to all legitimate-holders of the title I'm not saying that at all. I thought that would have been clear by now, but nevertheless, I am sure as per the post I quoted of wamberal that likely the MBA was obtained in his example... it doesn't mean it is legitimate just because one has one. As for why it's a disservice to those that legitimately struggled and put forth the tremendous effort and dedication necessary to obtain this highest honor... does that really need to be explained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP25 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 While I do not doubt that cheating is rampant in the Thai education system, there is no way that letter was written by a teenage Thai student. No teenager in Thailand is going to write like that, or make allusions to songs no one has heard of any more like 'Que Sera Sera.' This was written by an adult as an illustration of the problems that exist in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naka Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 What the hel* does this mean in all reality Marshbags dear? It means his post is too darn longwinded ! Agree with the content though Naka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Several years ago I did a long consulting assignment with a large Thai organisation. My main counterpart, who ended up heading the organisation, sent his daughter to the States to do an MBA. She struggled big-time, so he ordered his staff (some of whom had MBAs) to do her assignments for her. That would explain Thaksin's English-language dissertation for a PhD obtained in the States. Thatr is a leap - one board members experience is proof of something not related BHWAAAAAAAAA - that borders on mental distress to put it lightly. Evidence my dear chap - not your personal supposition. BTW Thaksin has and MBA and a PHd - what is your level of education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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