Walking Street Rents?

[brucebluey]

I have received a quote of 850 Bt per square for ashop premises directly on Walking Street, Pattaya. Does anybody know if this a chaep, fair or expensive rent for the area?

Thanks

[Sunbelt Asia]

Here are typical rents for Walking Street but they are all over the place.

Bar...250 sq.m two floors...They pay one million key money( gift to the Landlord) per year. Had to pay 3 years in advance for a total of 3 million. every three years another 3 million key money. Rent is 100,000 Baht per month and goes to 140,000 Baht in the 9th year.

Go Go Bar 600 sq.m Second floor... They pay one million Baht key money per year. Had to pay 5 million key money in advance for 5 years. Rent is 100,000 Baht per month.

Restaurant 300 sq.m two floors. They pay key money in advance for 3 years 1.2 million total. Rent is just 5,000 per month. Cannot be used for a bar.

Night Club 160 Sq.M. ground floor. 90,000 Baht per month. No key money. 6 month deposit upfront.

Go Go Bar 500 sq.m 4 floors 35,000 Baht per month. Key money is 500,000 Baht per year.

Tailor Shop 450 sq.m 4 floors 80,000 Baht per month. Key money of one million per year. Can be converted to a bar.

Go Go Bar 100 sq.m ground floor 85,000 Baht per month. 6 month deposit upfront. No key money.

Royal Garden Plaza up the street wants 2,200 Baht per sq.m plus service charge and 10-15% rent increase every year.

The Dunken Donut shop that is empty near there. Shook our hands on the price for the two floors 250 sq.m. at 120,000 per month Decided if we were interested it had to be worth more so raised the price to 200,000 Baht. Came back down to asking 150,000 Baht per month( 4 months later), back up to asking 180,000 per month and still sits empty a year later.

That is Pattaya!

www.sunbeltasia.com

[Jazzyuk]

Very useful information.

Any idea what these figures would be for Bangla Road, Patong, Phuket?

Many Thanks

[brucebluey]

Many thanks for the info Sunbelt.

I have uncovered a potential problem as the shop in question is on the seafront side of Walking Street. My research on the net indicates that there is a project afoot to demolish all of these properties (aka the '101 businesses') as they are illegal structures that encroach on public land and replace them with a pier.

Does anybody have any inside info on the likihood of this project actually going ahead? The 101 business owners have formed some sort of defence committee to chalenge the lovcal government.

[Sunbelt Asia]

On Bangla Road,

Bar that is 200 Sq.m. Rent is 450,000 Baht per month. 6 month deposit upfront.

Pub 186 sq.m. pays 50,000 Baht per month with key money of 2 million every 5 years. Deposit of 3 months.

Guesthouse and restaurant... 700 sq.m. rent only 45,000 baht per month. No key money. Deposit of 6 months.

Go Go Bar.. 3 story double unit ( 360 sq.m.) rent is 40,000 baht per month. Key money of 1 million baht every year.

Beer bar.. 30 sq.m. rent of 10,000 per month. key money of 250,000 every year.

In the Jungceylon complex opening up in January which will be near Bangla Road. Our rent is 400,000 Baht per month for 250 sq.m. Deposit of 6 months in advance.

On beach road, I know the McDonalds restaurant rent is over 700,000 baht per month. It's aprox 175 sq.m.

Jazzyuk, by the way, what is the rent amount you pay?

Again as you can see, rents are all over the place.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

have uncovered a potential problem as the shop in question is on the seafront side of Walking Street. My research on the net indicates that there is a project afoot to demolish all of these properties (aka the '101 businesses') as they are illegal structures that encroach on public land and replace them with a pier.

Does anybody have any inside info on the likihood of this project actually going ahead? The 101 business owners have formed some sort of defence committee to chalenge the lovcal government.

As far as I know. They have been talking about this for over 20 years. An international law firm was hired by one of my clients to do a due diligence on the likelihood. The report cost him around 300,000 Baht in fees. The synopsis was that it could happen but the likelihood was very much against it. Three of the shops have actual Chanotes on the land and not squatter rights. So it would look very funny to see the beach then 3 shophouses standing by themselves.

The report also talked about the shop owners that are located there have alot of power and it would be very difficult to get them out of there.

Based on the report, my client went ahead and invested over 25 million baht knowing their was the risk.

As for the 101 businesses I understand, most of them contribute to a kitty every year a small amount. They have a defense fund but its never really been needed.

More likelihood if anything ever did happen as a compromise, will be the buildings cannot be more than 30 meters in length from Walking street. Some of these shops go out 45 meters into the water so they may have to chop some of the building off. The law firm put the odds on this happening as remote.

By the way, I know the government was complaining about the sewage from the shops several years ago. The water I've been told now is 100% cleaner. I still wouldn't drink it! :-)

www.sunbeltasia.com

[davethailand]

i would'nt even swim in it!

[brucebluey]

Many thanks again Sunbelt.

Can a lessor issue a legally enforceable laese for an illegal structure that encroaches on public land? I presume the investor who invested 25 million bt believed that they had some kind of enforceable rights.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Can a lessor issue a legally enforceable laese for an illegal structure that encroaches on public land? I presume the investor who invested 25 million bt believed that they had some kind of enforceable rights.

Yes but it could not be registered with the Land Department as the landlord had no clear title... just squatter rights. ( Funny enough the government does charge him a household tax on the building and land though)

Hence they did a 3 years plus 3 years plus 3 years. Then a separate contract for the last 3 year period. The lease was written in such a way the options of three years did not lie with the landlord but the tenant. This was the most important clause!

Also it had clauses that the lease was enforceable if the landlord died.

Any lease more than 3 years is null and void unless is registered with the Land department.ie 12 years. If its 3 years plus 3 plus 3( plus 3 in a separate contract) then the land department does not even get involved as they only register leases more than 3 years. Each lease is just 3 years. The key is the extension( option) and having a good lawyer to protect your rights.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[Darknight]

I know the McDonalds restaurant rent is over 700,000 baht per month. It's aprox 175 sq.m.

And how much is their turnover then ??? this price is completely insane for any property??

[Sunbelt Asia]

And how much is their turnover then ??? this price is completely insane for any property??

Don't know. But thats why they charge 50% more for a Big Mac than the price in Bangkok. Still a waiting line so it don't seem to drive the business away.

Want high? Try the BKK airport. Typical is 1 million baht+++ rent per month. In the departure hall past customs about a year ago, their was an auction on the space( when the SARS scare was still going on) and we were beat. Winning bid was 1.4 million baht per month for 100 sq.m. Its a mini mart/ restaurant now. One of the reasons why a can of coke is 50 baht at the store. That company had a big pair of brass ____ to bid that much during SARS :-) Looked at 4 spaces at the airport just a week ago. Minimum was 300,000 and that was a area I didn't even knew existed ( near the garage) They wanted a million Baht for the space near Black Canyon kiosk past the arrival hall and the mob of people waiting. You need to go around the corner( not in a 100 years would someone see it if they were just getting off the plane and neither would the people that were waiting for them)

Finding good space in Thailand is fun. :-)

[Darknight]

wauw , you get one months commision if you broker a deal there also greg ?

but surely they can't make a profit at that rate. If you have to count installation, personell and product cost.

So only Big brands can have a Showcase there, even at a cola at 50 bath. that's like selling a minimum of 50000 cokes in a month, thats 1666 a DAY to break even.

Pfff Europe sounds cheap now ??

[Sunbelt Asia]

wauw , you get one months commision if you broker a deal there also greg ?

We wish we could get that amount for our professional fee!

The KFC does very well there. No brand name competition past the Customs. They average over 10 million gross sales per month at that location!

But for a minimart, it must be very tough indeed!

www.sunbeltasia.com

[liontamer]

Based on the report, my client went ahead and invested over 25 million baht knowing their was the risk

Its a shame they did not spend some of it on fire risk exits then.

I pretty sure of the outlet you mention,now they pack 500+ people into a back room,where you might only find the devil(thats a clue)if there was any problem these people are going to be F*****,there is no way out,only a 2 foot wide passageway out back onto walking street.

Sheer greed.

My thoughts have been made to city hall.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Nope it’s not that one. I know the landlord though of the place you are talking about. The investment for that group was much more. They claim the investment was 80 million + on the buildout, key money, etc. Hear they are doing very well these days. Good for them as it takes alot of people to recoup that kind of dough.

I agree with you, it should have better exits. So much money invested, the engineer must have been thinking decor and not exits.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[bartender100]

I agree with the newbie,if he/she is talking about Lucifer's on Walking Street,the place is a death trap,I was in there last weekend,but not for long.Its a disaster waiting to happen

Any sort of panic,even a fight,would cause a huge crush of people trying to get out.

The Marine is not much better,but at least its got a very wide exit.

[liontamer]

B80mill,thats a large wad in anyones money.

[merseyjohn]

B80mill,thats a large wad in anyones money.

for 80 mill you think they could afford a couple of fire escapes. Or maybe they spent all that money in bribes?

<joking!!!>

Or maybe they called it "Lucifers" for a reason - the devil wants a few new souls?

[aqua4]

So the latest is that Walking Street is going to be extended.

At Pattaya City Hall, a meeting took place attended by 101 businesses that operate along Walking Street. It was chaired by Khun Niran, the Mayor of Pattaya and was one of the most heated meetings to take place there for some time. For many years plans have been discussed to reclaim 40 meters of land behind the existing beachside businesses along walking street. The plan now looks as if it may go ahead. The plan was not well received by the Walking Street representatives. For many years it has been known that the beachside businesses had been built over their permitted boundaries and for many years the plans to reclaim the land had been discussed and then forgotten about. The plans announced at this meeting will mean that a road and beach path will be constructed on the reclaimed land. With Walking Street being the number one area for tourists, the issue is a controversial one and could prove expensive for the business owners who will not necessary loose their businesses but will be forced to operate in a smaller area which would affect their income. Many heated exchanges took place but the plans have been approved in principal by City Hall but many more meetings are expected before a definite plan is announced.