War On Drugs To Start On April 2

[peter991]

Exactly. Its a battle that will never be won. Why on earth Governments even bother beats me. If people choose to kill themselves taking drugs or risk serious harm why not legalise it and educate them , give them the choice, and then let them get on with it.?

Until you have lost loved ones to illegal drugs, you will continue to think that way.

Singapore is a prime example of an Asian country which has WON the war on drugs - because they have an honest police force and judiciary.

I doubt that Thailand will ever (at least in my lifetime) win the war because of its crooked police.

Peter

[funfun]

Exactly. Its a battle that will never be won. Why on earth Governments even bother beats me. If people choose to kill themselves taking drugs or risk serious harm why not legalise it and educate them , give them the choice, and then let them get on with it.?

Until you have lost loved ones to illegal drugs, you will continue to think that way.

Singapore is a prime example of an Asian country which has WON the war on drugs - because they have an honest police force and judiciary.

I doubt that Thailand will ever (at least in my lifetime) win the war because of its crooked police.

Peter

"WON the war on drugs - because they have an honest police force and judiciary."

oh and erm, HANGING!!

Detailed statistics are not released by the government of Singapore. Former Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong told the BBC in September 2003 that he believed there were "in the region of about 70 to 80" hangings in 2003. Two days later he retracted his statement, saying the number was in fact ten.

[alanpartridge]

On your marks,

Get set,

Kill !!!!

[twschw]

I suppose it is easier to manage 4 million citizens (Singapore) than 63 million (Thailand).

[Lorin]

Exactly. Its a battle that will never be won. Why on earth Governments even bother beats me. If people choose to kill themselves taking drugs or risk serious harm why not legalise it and educate them , give them the choice, and then let them get on with it.?

Until you have lost loved ones to illegal drugs, you will continue to think that way.

Singapore is a prime example of an Asian country which has WON the war on drugs - because they have an honest police force and judiciary.

I doubt that Thailand will ever (at least in my lifetime) win the war because of its crooked police.

Peter

Please explain to me how exactly they won the war on drugs? Last time I been to Zeouk Open party in Sentosa and every party for the last 3 years, big number of 20000 ppl attending was clearly high...:-0 Seems to me in that war is no winners, only losers.

[Maigo6]

Until you have lost loved ones to illegal drugs, you will continue to think that way.

And if you have lost loved ones due to Legal drugs like Cigarettes and Alcohol ?

Edited March 27, 2008 by Maigo6

[sjaak327]

Until you have lost loved ones to illegal drugs, you will continue to think that way.

Singapore is a prime example of an Asian country which has WON the war on drugs - because they have an honest police force and judiciary.

I doubt that Thailand will ever (at least in my lifetime) win the war because of its crooked police.

Peter

There is not a country on earth where the war on drugs (ridiculous term to begin with) has been won. Not in Singapore, Thailand or anywhere else for that matter.

Of course the wise thing to do, is to simply legalize drugs. A prime example is the Netherlands, where most drugs (not All) are legalized, or are even distributed by the government. Taking out the lucrative drug trade. Prices of drugs have been lowered, so less petty drugs related crimes as well. At the end of the day, people will always expiriment with drugs, some get addicted. But to think you can actually begin a war against drugs, and actually win this war, is a fairytale. It's simply not going to happen.

[pampal]

Jeez, another War on Drugs

[thatguy]

if speed kills, let it. your work is done.

[geriatrickid]

Let's not forget over half the people executed last time round had nothing whatsoever

What is worrying however is that the vast majority of Thais unequivocally support such action, showing just how stuck in the past and how uneducated this country really is.

So basically you are saying that the government should not respond to the concerns of the "vast majority of Thais" that have a genuine concern? Do you have any understanding of how bad the heroin problem is in the north or the impact that yaba is having on alot of families? It's wreaking havoc with the economy in some places where the drug trade corrupts everything it comes in contact with.

What too many farangs do not grasp is that the drug trade fuels a great deal of the corruption and how many thousands of new yaba addicts are created in a year. When you have a deadly tumor that's growing out of control sometimes a bit of healthy tissue gets cut out along with it. Thailand does not have the financial resources to fund rehab programs to the extent that they are needed. Unfortunately, this is the best that can be done.

[tom yum goong]

So basically you are saying that the government should not respond to the concerns of the "vast majority of Thais" that have a genuine concern? Do you have any understanding of how bad the heroin problem is in the north or the impact that yaba is having on alot of families? It's wreaking havoc with the economy in some places where the drug trade corrupts everything it comes in contact with.

What too many farangs do not grasp is that the drug trade fuels a great deal of the corruption and how many thousands of new yaba addicts are created in a year. When you have a deadly tumor that's growing out of control sometimes a bit of healthy tissue gets cut out along with it. Thailand does not have the financial resources to fund rehab programs to the extent that they are needed. Unfortunately, this is the best that can be done.

Your argument only holds if you believe that the government is initiating this second war on drugs out of concern for its people, and that the police who are carrying out their orders are not heavily involved in the drug trade themselves

Surely you can't be that naive?

[Insight]

Great big crystal balls ahoy, but I've got a feeling Thailand will hit international headlines over the next few weeks, but not in a positive way.

[mikethevigoman]

War on drugs to start on April 2

BANGKOK: -- The government will launch its war on drug on April 2 and mobilise all units to crack down on illicit drugs for 90 days, Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrun said on Wednesday.

Chalerm said he was aware of a difficult fight ahead but expected cut down the trafficking. He called for strict law enforcement without heeding the concern of human right advocates.

-- The Nation 2008-03-26

Aform of ethnic cleaning to get rid of the smaller dealers to allow the big ones to reap,

[geriatrickid]

So basically you are saying that the government should not respond to the concerns of the "vast majority of Thais" that have a genuine concern?

No, what I am saying is that extra-judicial murder of people by Police Death squads is an unacceptable manner in which to deal with the problem.

Unfortunately, this is the best that can be done.

Absolute and utter nonsense.

if they cannot properly fund pre natal health care, TB and HIV programs and don't have the personnel to provide basic rehab, how could they offer drug rehab and what other options are there within the local constraints?

[OlRedEyes]

War on drugs to start on April 2

He called for strict law enforcement without heeding the concern of human right advocates.

-- The Nation 2008-03-26

Thailand continues to be a place that nauseates.

[twschw]

Let's not forget over half the people executed last time round had nothing whatsoever

What is worrying however is that the vast majority of Thais unequivocally support such action, showing just how stuck in the past and how uneducated this country really is.

So basically you are saying that the government should not respond to the concerns of the "vast majority of Thais" that have a genuine concern? Do you have any understanding of how bad the heroin problem is in the north or the impact that yaba is having on alot of families? It's wreaking havoc with the economy in some places where the drug trade corrupts everything it comes in contact with.

What too many farangs do not grasp is that the drug trade fuels a great deal of the corruption and how many thousands of new yaba addicts are created in a year. When you have a deadly tumor that's growing out of control sometimes a bit of healthy tissue gets cut out along with it. Thailand does not have the financial resources to fund rehab programs to the extent that they are needed. Unfortunately, this is the best that can be done.

So if you can't rehab 'em, kill 'em.

[jackspratt]

So basically you are saying that the government should not respond to the concerns of the "vast majority of Thais" that have a genuine concern?

No, what I am saying is that extra-judicial murder of people by Police Death squads is an unacceptable manner in which to deal with the problem.

Do you have any understanding of how bad the heroin problem is in the north or the impact that yaba is having on alot of families?

It's wreaking havoc with the economy in some places where the drug trade corrupts everything it comes in contact with.

I understand only too well that millions of Thais are addicted to yaabaa and that Thailand remains a major trafficker and consumer of illicit drugs.

Don't forget many of the prominent Thai families have grown rich and powerful from the drugs trade.

When you have a deadly tumor that's growing out of control sometimes a bit of healthy tissue gets cut out along with it.

But it's not just a "bit of healthy tissue" is it? More than half the murdered had nothing whatsoever to do with the drugs trade, and their number included women and children. Not to mention the Narcotics Control Board found that there was absolutely NO EFFECT on the drugs trade in the long term.

Unfortunately, this is the best that can be done.

Absolute and utter nonsense.

Gotta say .........................takes a deep breath..........................I totally agree with tud.

(There, that didn't hurt a bit, did it?)

[yaketyak]

Until you have lost loved ones to illegal drugs, you will continue to think that way.

Singapore is a prime example of an Asian country which has WON the war on drugs - because they have an honest police force and judiciary.

I doubt that Thailand will ever (at least in my lifetime) win the war because of its crooked police.

Peter

There is not a country on earth where the war on drugs (ridiculous term to begin with) has been won. Not in Singapore, Thailand or anywhere else for that matter.

Of course the wise thing to do, is to simply legalize drugs. A prime example is the Netherlands, where most drugs (not All) are legalized, or are even distributed by the government. Taking out the lucrative drug trade. Prices of drugs have been lowered, so less petty drugs related crimes as well. At the end of the day, people will always expiriment with drugs, some get addicted. But to think you can actually begin a war against drugs, and actually win this war, is a fairytale. It's simply not going to happen.

What an excellent post. Echos my feelings entirely.

When they have stopped wasting money on fighting drugs , which they cannot win , perhaps the next step will be to stop fighting prostitution and let them get on with it as well. Unfortunately, due to forum rules, i can say no more on this subject as disscussions on prostitution are banned . Wrongly in my opinion. So please no-one disscuss it . Just wanted to put my opinion and leave it there.

[hansnl]

Until you have lost loved ones to illegal drugs, you will continue to think that way.

Singapore is a prime example of an Asian country which has WON the war on drugs - because they have an honest police force and judiciary.

I doubt that Thailand will ever (at least in my lifetime) win the war because of its crooked police.

Peter

There is not a country on earth where the war on drugs (ridiculous term to begin with) has been won. Not in Singapore, Thailand or anywhere else for that matter.

Of course the wise thing to do, is to simply legalize drugs. A prime example is the Netherlands, where most drugs (not All) are legalized, or are even distributed by the government. Taking out the lucrative drug trade. Prices of drugs have been lowered, so less petty drugs related crimes as well. At the end of the day, people will always expiriment with drugs, some get addicted. But to think you can actually begin a war against drugs, and actually win this war, is a fairytale. It's simply not going to happen.

Attention, drugs are definitely not legalised in the Netherlands.

The possession of a certain amount of soft drugs is allowed, for personal use.

But remains ILLEGAL!

Trading in those drugs is illegal, however, to a certain extent, certain shops are allowed to cater for the small users, and are under control of the authorities.

Any sidestepping of traders or users, well there you go!

What an excellent post. Echos my feelings entirely.

When they have stopped wasting money on fighting drugs , which they cannot win , perhaps the next step will be to stop fighting prostitution and let them get on with it as well. Unfortunately, due to forum rules, i can say no more on this subject as disscussions on prostitution are banned . Wrongly in my opinion. So please no-one disscuss it . Just wanted to put my opinion and leave it there.

This is legal in Holland!

[deon]

Sorry but you are Wrong Since 1976, drug law in the Netherlands has divided drugs between hard (eg heroin, cocaine and ecstasy) and soft (cannabis).

The fact that cannabis is relatively easy to obtain in coffee shops has not resulted in a greater increase in use than in other countries

Trimbos Institute, the Netherlands

Possession of a small amount (less than 30 grammes) of cannabis for personal use carries only a minor punishment, and is rarely prosecuted ,More famously, the law also allows for "coffee shops". These are the 1,500 or so cafés - usually small, independent and unlicensed - which sell cannabis, under very strict conditions (the sale technically remains an offence):

no more than five grams per person are sold in any one transaction;

no hard drugs are sold;

drugs are not advertised;

the coffee shop does not cause any nuisance;

no drugs are sold to minors (under 18);

no minors are admitted to the premises

Policy on coffee shops is largely decided at local level, between a triangle of local authorities, the police and public prosecutors

But the goverment do not control it at all, its the coffie shops. a infact at the moment there is a big clap down on things there .

Edited March 28, 2008 by deon

[Plus]

Don't forget many of the prominent Thai families have grown rich and powerful from the drugs trade.

Examples? Which prominent Thai family have grown rich from drugs trade? How many of them are on published lists of wealthiest Thais?

[geriatrickid]

It is inappropriate to compare the Netherlands and Thailand in this this matter. The Netherlands is significantly different than Thailand when it comes to the ability to mount a drug control and management strategy It is wealthier (USD39,000 vs. USD3,400 nominal GDP per capita income) and smaller (41,500 sq. km of which 18% is water vs. 513,000 sq.km.)

Thailand cannot afford to provide the same drug treatment and control strategy as is done in the Netherlands. It is easy to monitor and supervise a coffeehouse in the NL. It would be impossible to do that in Thailand.

Ok, so no one likes the crude drug control strategy that Thailand will use. I agree it's imperfect. However, would Thailand be able to provide the large amounts of capital needed to fund the drug treatment and risk reduction programs found in the NL? Can the limited number of taxpayers come up with the hundreds of millions of baht necessary to do this? Would foreigners and long term tourists mind contributing, say 100,000B each to help pay for the treatment programs? I doubt it.

The tolerance in the NL is in respect to cannabis, not yaba, nor heroin. Over 73% of Dutch municipalities forbid coffeeshops. Dutch legislation on narcotic substances (the Opium Act) is based on the health risk to users. This risk varies depending on the category of drug: category I: substances which involve an unacceptable health risk, also known as hard drugs. They include heroin, cocaine, ecstasy and amphetamines; It is illegal to sell these drugs. There are harsh penalties for trafficers. This is clearly stated by the Dutch government.The point here is that the Netherlands is not a land of druggies and it can focus upon health risk because it has the money to do so. Talk to some residents of the larger Dutch cities and ask how they feel about the local druggies that steal to feed their habits and lifestyle. My sister in law who is one of those leftie types still screams at the junkies that pass out in front of her flat in Amsterdam and complains about their taking a leak in the doorway.

Here's the Dutch position on drugs. http://www.minbuza.nl/binaries/en-pdf/pdf/...rugs2003_en.pdf It is not the utopia some make it out to be.

Better yet, talk to a Thai who has a family member hooked on heroin. My friend who's uncle has a habit that's caused harm to the family would like to behead the local supplier but cannot for fear of retaliation. For people that claim to live amongst the locals and have an understanding of their inner workings, you are greatly mistaken if you do not recognize the anger and fear that is pushing this crackdown. Many Thais want action and they want it now. It would be unwise for a farang to lecture any Thai that has experienced this firsthand. Overall, there is zero tolerance for farang views on the subject. This is one fight farangs need to stay away from.

[Plus]

It's misleading to presume that Thai drug war was focussed on violent measures only. Drug addicts who surrendered were dicriminalised and te government set up drug rehabilitation centers for them. Thaksin even got a medal from some Italian university for that aspect of the war.

It's the discriminate killings that spoiled it.

>>>>

I can't believe that people are arguing in defence of "kill first, maybe half of them are related to drugs" strategy.

[Tony Clifton]

Last week, someone spray painted a big black X on the telephone pole in front of my house.

Today they installed a street light.

The black X will now remain for years.

Edited March 29, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[BigSnake]

Here we go again, REMEMBER the last war on drugs. Enough said.

[stanley2550]

I really cannot see why anyone should be upset about human rights abuses or any other abuses induced by

by the officials of Thailand on its people. History seems to make the rules here. Those abuses appear to

be the norm. The Thai people don't seem to mind it, so why should foreginers object.

During the last drug war go around a couple of years back, the police attributed the majority of descriminate

deaths to drug gangs killing each other, rather than the indescriminate bullets flying around from the trigger

happy police Gang. That seems like a very plausable spin to me. How could anyone dispute those facts.

Any taking any bets here here on whether the number of deaths during the upcoming drug war games will

be more of less that is was the last time?

[stanley2550]

Well it is obvious you do not understand the Thai mindset. The reason they painted a Big Black X on that pole is so they could find that pole much easier in the dark. That makes sense dosen't it?

[sjaak327]

"It is inappropriate to compare the Netherlands and Thailand in this this matter. The Netherlands is significantly different than Thailand when it comes to the ability to mount a drug control and management strategy It is wealthier (USD39,000 vs. USD3,400 nominal GDP per capita income) and smaller (41,500 sq. km of which 18% is water vs. 513,000 sq.km.)

Thailand cannot afford to provide the same drug treatment and control strategy as is done in the Netherlands. It is easy to monitor and supervise a coffeehouse in the NL. It would be impossible to do that in Thailand."

The point wasn't to compare the Netherlands to Thailand, I was just giving an example of a country where drugs policies are civil, and yet there is no real drugs problem in the Netherlands.

"Ok, so no one likes the crude drug control strategy that Thailand will use. I agree it's imperfect. However, would Thailand be able to provide the large amounts of capital needed to fund the drug treatment and risk reduction programs found in the NL? Can the limited number of taxpayers come up with the hundreds of millions of baht necessary to do this? Would foreigners and long term tourists mind contributing, say 100,000B each to help pay for the treatment programs? I doubt it."

So the answer is to kill the suppliers/trafficers using extrajudicual killlings ? Imperfect is an understatement.

"There are harsh penalties for trafficers."

No there aren't, they are sent home since we don't have enough cells to keep them. You get a slap on the wrist nothing more. In the Netherlands, there are better reasons to keep someone banged up, drugs trafficing isn't one of them.

"Many Thais want action and they want it now. It would be unwise for a farang to lecture any Thai that has experienced this firsthand. Overall, there is zero tolerance for farang views on the subject. This is one fight farangs need to stay away from."

Farangs need to stay away on almost all subjects, as they don't have any rights in this country. But extrajudicial killings are wrong, and could easily undermine the democarcy and the legal system. Maybe it's time that Thais, who apperently want this crackdown so bad, to reailize that. Today it's drugs, what will the excuse be tomorrow ?

[stanley2550]

How can you abuse human rights in a country, when a government does not believe in human rights at any level; except of course if that person is a family member of somone in that government itself. Those people are usually the ones who then squawk the loudest.

[Plus]

During the last drug war go around a couple of years back, the police attributed the majority of descriminate

deaths to drug gangs killing each other, rather than the indescriminate bullets flying around from the trigger

happy police Gang. That seems like a very plausable spin to me. How could anyone dispute those facts.

Those are not facts, they haven't solved a single case of drug gang killings, you can't call it a fact.

Half of the killed were not connected to drugs or drug gangs in any way, THAT is a fact that the government cannot explain with its half hearted excuses.