Anything Wrong With This Sentence?

[stevejones123]

The original is very common, and perfectly correct in all registers of English. Anybody who says different is simply trying to elevate one of their pet peeves to a grammatical rule.

[TerryM]

"Would you like a cup of Coffee". This denotes the offer of a cup. If one just said would you like "coffee" this may be confused with would like a coffee tree, or a jar, as another member suggested. For what its worth, I think we Should try and give the best examples to students we can. On a different note. I have read on other forums, where it has been flaged that we farang teachers are NOT to fail any Thai student. If this is so, what's the point in teaching them English. Just a thought. All comments welcomed.

Terry

[PeaceBlondie]

The consensus on this issue, by the expert authors of modern grammar texts and by teachers of EFL in Thailand, is that it is correct to say, "Would you like coffee, tea, or me?" (Sorry, old airline joke).

TerryM, the fact that most teachers have to pass all students is no excuse for teaching bad grammar or wrong grammar. We teach the best we can, the most we know, as correctly as possible. We pick our battles and lose some. But we ain't gonna impress nobody with nuttin' by using bad grammer and sapeling.

[TerryM]

I agree with your grammar statement Peace Blondie. Further however, what action will the school, or for that matter, the Parents take if we Farang teacher DO FAIL Thai students? The point after all is to be the best teacher we possibly can.

The Failing of students here in Australia is considered part of the learning process so the pupil corrects their mistakes and learns from them. Am I being to harsh?...I don't think so! Having come from a low socio-economic Australian Indigenous background myself I can appreciate the difficulties schooling holds for some students. However, Education as I see it is the key to better employment prospects and social interaction. Is this not so elsewhere?

Just a thought.

[wilko]

English is organic, and the language taught should take into account common usage - "would you like a coffee" is in common usage all over the world..therefore totally acceptable.

the problem with teaching "would you like SOME coffee" is that it will then be transferred to "would you like some DINK" which is NOT acceptible.

PS - how many coffees do you have per day?

[PeaceBlondie]

wilko, I do not drink coffee. Not one, none, nada, soon. However, I drink two liters of Pepsi Max per day. I would not say, "How many Pepsi Max's do you drink?" because I might get the spelling wrong. If a Thai student has the nickname of Pax, can we say, "This is Pax's report"?

[twschw]

I would say "much coffee do you drink in a day?" or "how much Pepsi Max do you drink in a day?". Is this wrong?

[wilko]

wilko, I do not drink coffee. Not one, none, nada, soon. However, I drink two liters of Pepsi Max per day. I would not say, "How many Pepsi Max's do you drink?" because I might get the spelling wrong. If a Thai student has the nickname of Pax, can we say, "This is Pax's report"?

I would ash: "How many Pepsi's do you drink in a day?" - spelling not my forte...but I would use the pronunciation convention of "S" as "iz"

Many nouns can be both count or non-count and also used without a classifier....although I don't think that "How many breads......." is acceptable as it has already got a different use - i.e. "how many TYPES of bread do you sell?"

[wilko]

wilko, I do not drink coffee. Not one, none, nada, soon. However, I drink two liters of Pepsi Max per day. I would not say, "How many Pepsi Max's do you drink?" because I might get the spelling wrong. If a Thai student has the nickname of Pax, can we say, "This is Pax's report"?

I would ask "how many Pepsi's have you had today?".......... spelling never one of my strong points

Is this Max's report.....OK but the pronunciation needs to follow convention, which would be to pronounce the "s" as "iz"

Many nouns are both count and non-count and are frequently used without a quantifier/classifier

[Kan Win]

"Anyone fancy a beer " in Kan over Songkran then

Singular meaning I am offering A beer, "some" is more than one "plural".

The OP was correct IMO, but then again I am Polish and never found a problem with a coffee nor a beer

Kan Win

Edited April 9, 2008 by Kan Win

[Zpete]

I agree with your grammar statement Peace Blondie. Further however, what action will the school, or for that matter, the Parents take if we Farang teacher DO FAIL Thai students? The point after all is to be the best teacher we possibly can.

The Failing of students here in Australia is considered part of the learning process so the pupil corrects their mistakes and learns from them. Am I being to harsh?...I don't think so! Having come from a low socio-economic Australian Indigenous background myself I can appreciate the difficulties schooling holds for some students. However, Education as I see it is the key to better employment prospects and social interaction. Is this not so elsewhere?

Just a thought.

Good thought, very concise and to the point.

[Zpete]

This has always bugged me.

For example, people say.......

I live in Patong.

OK

I live in Phuket.

Not OK to me, should be .....

I live on Phuket.

Put together.....

I live in Patong in Phuket..... ?????

My thoughts are, should be ....

I live in Patong, on Phuket.

Any rules, my query may sound dumb, but....?????

I live on Phuket in Thailand. Sounds OK.

... grrrrr..... totally confuzzled.

[PeaceBlondie]

zpete, good questions, and as usual, there is not one universal correct answer.

I guess you are talking about prepositions of location. Phuket is a province, an island, a town, and I guess the city on the western shore is a city. Usually we say we live in a province, town, or city, so there is nothing wrong with "in Phuket." Likewise, you live in a neighborhood or moobahn, "in Patong." You also live on an island, near the beach, close to mountains, far from Phuket Town.

[wilko]

So Phuket as a province IN is OK ....BUT "I live ON Samui" as it is not a province, only an island.

prepositions are the most difficult aspect of English to learn....they are not even consistent between two major versions US and UK.

Edited April 10, 2008 by wilko

[PeaceBlondie]

Good point, wilko, as usual. Brits seem to say, TO the contrary, while (whilst) Americans say, ON the contrary. Any more examples?

[wilko]

Good point, wilko, as usual. Brits seem to say, TO the contrary, while (whilst) Americans say, ON the contrary. Any more examples?

at the week-end (UK)....on the week end (USA).....

pissed (USA).....pissed off (UK)

as opposed to - pissed (up) (UK - legal)....drunk (USA - illegal in most States)

not a preposition but strange all the same...."couldn't care less" and "could care less"

Edited April 10, 2008 by wilko

[PeaceBlondie]

Good point, wilko, as usual. Brits seem to say, TO the contrary, while (whilst) Americans say, ON the contrary. Any more examples?

......

not a preposition but strange all the same...."couldn't care less" and "could care less"

Yes, the new and shorter version is a failed Yank attempt at irony, for which (or at which) the British are far superior.

Americans are better at overstatement. Mama (not Mum) told me a trillion times, "If I told you once, I told you a thousand times!" Also, in Texas, our things are bigger, Willie.

[Loaded]

as we're discussing prepositions could an American tell me if this is correct:

I like sucking on a fag when it's between my lips and in my mouth. Would you Americans do the same?

Edited April 10, 2008 by Loaded

[wilko]

One would think twice before sucking on a fag in USA - or maybe not as the case may be?

Edited April 10, 2008 by wilko

[Zpete]

as we're discussing prepositions could an American tell me if this is correct:

I like sucking on a fag when it's between my lips and in my mouth. Would you Americans do the same?

A fag in UK is a prefects "Gophor Boy".

Ya wanna suck on him? .........PMPL

[Kan Win]

This has always bugged me.

For example, people say.......

I live in Patong.

OK

I live in Phuket.

Not OK to me, should be .....

I live on Phuket.

Put together.....

I live in Patong in Phuket..... ?????

My thoughts are, should be ....

I live in Patong, on Phuket. (Island). Wood be most correct, but, by you having missed that part out you are Damrong

Any rules, my query may sound dumb, but....?????

I live on Phuket in Thailand. Sounds OK.

... grrrrr..... totally confuzzled.

As, in (I live on New Zealand, I live on Australia, I live on The United Kingdom, I live on Phuket, all are Islands.

Sorry, but I live on this planet so called Earth and "live in New Zealand, live in Australia, I live in The United Kingdom, I live in Phuket, Thailand, all are Islands.

Yours truly,

Kan Win

P.S. and now Kan I have “a Beer” please. as I will have a coffee or two in the morning

[mbkudu]

I must admit that Joseph Conrad was somehow able to take a firm grasp of the English language and run with it. He rarely worried of such trifling little bits of fluff, so why should we.

Edited April 10, 2008 by mbkudu

[Zpete]

This has always bugged me.

For example, people say.......

I live in Patong.

OK

I live in Phuket.

Not OK to me, should be .....

I live on Phuket.

Put together.....

I live in Patong in Phuket..... ?????

My thoughts are, should be ....

I live in Patong, on Phuket. (Island). Wood be most correct, but, by you having missed that part out you are Damrong

Any rules, my query may sound dumb, but....?????

I live on Phuket in Thailand. Sounds OK.

... grrrrr..... totally confuzzled.

As, in (I live on New Zealand, I live on Australia, I live on The United Kingdom, I live on Phuket, all are Islands.

Sorry, but I live on this planet so called Earth and "live in New Zealand, live in Australia, I live in The United Kingdom, I live in Phuket, Thailand, all are Islands.

Yours truly,

Kan Win

P.S. and now Kan I have "a Beer" please. as I will have a coffee or two in the morning

Ahaaaaaa, a fellow Kiwi, kia ora.

I live in Auckland in Waiheke Island.

That sounds dumb....

I live IN Oneroa ON Waiheke Island.

Sounds better.

[wilko]

This has always bugged me.

For example, people say.......

I live in Patong.

OK

I live in Phuket.

Not OK to me, should be .....

I live on Phuket.

Put together.....

I live in Patong in Phuket..... ?????

My thoughts are, should be ....

I live in Patong, on Phuket. (Island). Wood be most correct, but, by you having missed that part out you are Damrong

Any rules, my query may sound dumb, but....?????

I live on Phuket in Thailand. Sounds OK.

... grrrrr..... totally confuzzled.

As, in (I live on New Zealand, I live on Australia, I live on The United Kingdom, I live on Phuket, all are Islands.

Sorry, but I live on this planet so called Earth and "live in New Zealand, live in Australia, I live in The United Kingdom, I live in Phuket, Thailand, all are Islands.

Yours truly,

Kan Win

P.S. and now Kan I have “a Beer” please. as I will have a coffee or two in the morning

the "island thing is explained above............e.g. in Jamaica and on the Isle of White

[elkangorito]

I would never teach EFL students that "Would you like a coffee?" is correct. Since language is a living thing & conceptual, I only teach "consistent" English to my EFL students. If & when they become quite proficient in English, I shall then be happy to teach them appropriate & current "idioma".

[stevejones123]

I would never teach EFL students that "Would you like a coffee?" is correct. Since language is a living thing & conceptual, I only teach "consistent" English to my EFL students. If & when they become quite proficient in English, I shall then be happy to teach them appropriate & current "idioma".

You would of course be quite wrong. The phrase is totally correct and teaching your students it isn't because you don't happen to like it is totally unprofessional. You've been hired to teach English, not your pet prejudices.

[Ijustwannateach]

^I would say we've been hired to help the students, and it's best to teach in a way that helps the students.

If the students plan to take formal grammar tests for university entrance, El Kango is probably right to eliminate extra, exceptional concepts that will simply confuse them (and probably reduce test scores). For advanced students, wider ranging things are better.

I doubt that El K ever comes into class and starts a lesson "....would like a coffee" is INCORRECT!

Most likely he simply never uses the phrase in that level of class.

I would find it odd and possibly incompetent if a teacher of lower-level students were spending a lot of time on such unhelpful minutiae.

[withnail]

I would never teach EFL students that "Would you like a coffee?" is correct. Since language is a living thing & conceptual, I only teach "consistent" English to my EFL students. If & when they become quite proficient in English, I shall then be happy to teach them appropriate & current "idioma".

You would of course be quite wrong. The phrase is totally correct and teaching your students it isn't because you don't happen to like it is totally unprofessional. You've been hired to teach English, not your pet prejudices.

Completely agree. By saying you wouldn't teach it as being correct I am presuming you would say it is incorrect, which it isn't. Interestingly this phrase came up in a business class of mine yesterday as a given expression in a business course book. What would you do then if you were using this book?

What I found especially interesting when this came up is that the pre-intermediate class I was teaching were already aware of the expression and could explain what it meant and the difference between 'a coffee' and 'some coffee'. Says a lot about some of the posters we've had on this thread.

A look on the British National Corpus produced 413 results for 'a coffee'

Edited April 30, 2008 by withnail

[elkangorito]

^I would say we've been hired to help the students, and it's best to teach in a way that helps the students.

If the students plan to take formal grammar tests for university entrance, El Kango is probably right to eliminate extra, exceptional concepts that will simply confuse them (and probably reduce test scores). For advanced students, wider ranging things are better.

I doubt that El K ever comes into class and starts a lesson "....would like a coffee" is INCORRECT!

Most likely he simply never uses the phrase in that level of class.

I would find it odd and possibly incompetent if a teacher of lower-level students were spending a lot of time on such unhelpful minutiae.

Thanks Steven (or is it Stephen?)

I never once said that I teach the phrase in question as being incorrect English. I simply don't wish to complicate the already very complicated matters for EFL students. Therefore, I do not teach idiomatic phrases. I'd sooner see my students get the "basics" VERY correct before they launch headlong into the variations of English across the globe.

[sysardman]

as we're discussing prepositions could an American tell me if this is correct:

I like sucking on a fag when it's between my lips and in my mouth. Would you Americans do the same?

A fag in UK is a prefects "Gophor Boy".

Ya wanna suck on him? .........PMPL

The term fag as a "Gopher Boy" died out with Charles Dickens, I can assure you that the term fag is a common term for a cigarette in the UK.