Wild Crocodiles In Thailand - Seen In Kao Yai

[Richb2004v2]

We took a few days’ R&B in Kao Yai at the weekend. It was our first time there and our first trip to a Thai National park. We had a good time although it didn’t really live up to expectations, but to be honest I think it is unrealistic to expect to see too much in the way of wildlife over a few days in daylight hours. Anyway, that’s not why I’m posting.

The highlight of the few days was seeing a wild crocodile. We spent a few hours of arduous trekking before finally finding the croc basking in the sun. It’s the first time we have seen one in the wild and I felt quite privileged. I didn’t think that there were any wild crocs remaining in Thailand. Apparently there are two now in Kao Yai, both in this same stretch of water. Wikpedia actually has the Thai crocodile population as possibly wiped out or maybe down to two. I guess the one I saw was one of these two.

I wonder where else in Thailand wild crocodiles can be found. Has anyone seen them elsewhere?

I also wondered why they have not been reintroduced to the wild. Maybe they are not seen as beneficial in any way. Or maybe they would be hunted and killed again for their skin, or maybe they are seen as dangerous, which I guess they would be in the wrong places. It seems a shame that an animal once so prolific is now almost gone.

Edited April 3, 2008 by Richb2004v2

[MrPaddy]

Are you sure it was a crocodile and not a monitor lizard. I hear thais calling them crocodiles all the time.

[uptou]

Hello Rich,i recon it was a monitor.The locals would have shipped it off to the nearest croc farm by now.

Have you had your eyes tested recently?Is that you in your avatar?

[Richb2004v2]

No, it was 100% a croc. It wasn't a fleeting glimpse. It was layed out in full view on the bank for the 10 minutes we sat and watched it. I've watched the big monitors in Limpini many times and there is a huge difference. I couldn't work out why the locals hadn't either skinned it, eaten it or sold it. I think they may be a recent addition. Apparentley when the crocs were young the locals initially mistook they for monitors. It was only when they got bigger that they realised. I reckon they must be escapees from a local farm. How can there suddenly be two crocodiles from where there were none before?

[MrPaddy]

Freshwater or saltwater ones ?

[burman]

Must have been fantastic to see. I've wanted to see wild crocs for a long time but know Thailand's wild croc population was virtually non existent.

Did you not have a camera on you?

[Richb2004v2]

I'm not a crocodile expert or anything, but I'd say that surely they would be freshwater crocodiles wouldn't they.

We only had our mobilephone camera. I did try to get a picture, but its a new'ish cameraphone and I couldn't get it to zoom.

We didn't expect to see crocodiles. The guide told us the day before that there might be a chance, but being a bit of a skeptic I thought that he was just trying to get us excited. I was in another national park, that I have forgotten the name of, and they said that there is a very rare chance of seeing one there. I presumed it would be the same in Kao Yai.

We didn't see much else. We followed the hoots of Gibbons for a while but never actually saw them. We also heard the eerie flapping of the wings of a Condor and briefly saw it fly over head. The noise was quite amazing. We also climbed up to the bottom of a mountain/hill to watch millions of bats fly out at dusk. Thats was an amazing sight and sound too. Oh, and we got woken in the night by a huge deer going through our bin. He was making a bit of a mess. When I made to remove it from him he gave me a look that quickly sent me back into the saftey of the doorway.

[plachon]

If it was a croc (and I don't doubt you if the guide pointed it out as one), then there is a good chance it has got there as a result of re-introduction by Wildlife Division of Nat Parks Dept. Offcially up until a few years ago, there were only wild pops of crocs hanging on in Pang Sida Nat Park in Sakaew Province and Kaeng Krachan Nat Park in Petchabun, but I think there have been re-introduction attempts at several places in last few years. Trouble is, they may be mixed up with hybridised farmed stock, which won't be great for gene pool in long term. Still, better than nowt I suppose.

However, I doubt very much that you saw a CONDOR, as that would really be stretching credulity a bit far. Maybe a vulture of some kind?

[KhaoNiaw]

Offcially up until a few years ago, there were only wild pops of crocs hanging on in Pang Sida Nat Park in Sakaew Province and Kaeng Krachan Nat Park in Petchabun, but I think there have been re-introduction attempts at several places in last few years.

I think I remember reading that the Sakaew population was possibly down to a single croc. I haven't heard of any in Khao Yai before.

[Richb2004v2]

As I said before it was a crocodile. An adult crocodile is unmistakable. In no way does an adult croc resemble a monitor in my opinion. Even without a guide pointing it out anyone would have no doubt in seeing a crocodile, a huge crocodile sitting fully out of the water in the sun. The guide said that there are two and that one the other one is black, which seems strange. I don't even think that it would be that hard to find it again. I think we went the long way to get there, but I think it's probably only about 3km in from the road.

The other park that I mentioned visiting briefly before was Kaeng Krachan Nat Park. It was this one that stated the very rare chance of their being 'a croc' in the park.

As for the condor, well I can't be at all sure about that. I don't even know what a condor looks like and I never got anything like a good look at it. The guide said 'condor' and pointed up and which point we heard a very loud and strange flapping noise like I've never heard before. Then we saw a huge bird go over head between the trees. The bird flew around for a bit before we lost it. It could have been an eagle or anything.

[burman]

Maybe a vulture, they visit Thailand on their travels.

Or a Hornbill?

Edited April 3, 2008 by burman

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Great thread!

We had a guide once in Kao Yai, and I asked if he had seen any tigers there? He just looked at me, and pointed to his underarm, with bits of it missing. I guess he has more than seen a tiger, so this sharpened my concentration conciderably!

Another time we were very lucky and got an old man as guide, officially retired, but the park is still his life, so he freelances now and then. Armed with a big machete and his pride and joy, a big gun. I guess a revolver, without knowing much about guns (could it have been Long Gun...?). But the piece du resistance (pardon my French) was when he opened his jacket and revealed, in a flashing sort of way, two wild west type bullet strips, worn diagonally across his chest! Wonderful, and we had a delightful trek, the guide was great and knowldgeable, and also showed us many photos with him and many (usually scantilly clad) women in various poses. Try to get him if you can, but call in advance. We were just lucky that day.

So did we see crocks and tigers? No, but a couple of Dodo birds, and just being there is great. 4-5 hours walk, and still lots to see. Also worth to go to a couple of vineyards outside the park, nice and pleasant. But the wine is still not so good...

[Goshawk]

well done !!

You did indeed see a croc at Khao Yai.. sadly, it was almost certainly a hybrid escape..!! (dozens of croc farms in Thailand, some very close to where you saw this one)

The true wild Siamese Crocodile is now an extinct species in Thailand, although there are groups trying to re-introduce it in some 'secret' locations..

if you check out This Link all will be explained.. (i am 'Robo' in this forum and took the images myself)

btw.. absolutely no Condors in Thailand.

[burman]

Dodo Birds?

[Richb2004v2]

Great thread!

We had a guide once in Kao Yai, and I asked if he had seen any tigers there? He just looked at me, and pointed to his underarm, with bits of it missing. I guess he has more than seen a tiger, so this sharpened my concentration conciderably!

Another time we were very lucky and got an old man as guide, officially retired, but the park is still his life, so he freelances now and then. Armed with a big machete and his pride and joy, a big gun. I guess a revolver, without knowing much about guns (could it have been Long Gun...?). But the piece du resistance (pardon my French) was when he opened his jacket and revealed, in a flashing sort of way, two wild west type bullet strips, worn diagonally across his chest! Wonderful, and we had a delightful trek, the guide was great and knowldgeable, and also showed us many photos with him and many (usually scantilly clad) women in various poses. Try to get him if you can, but call in advance. We were just lucky that day.

So did we see crocks and tigers? No, but a couple of Dodo birds, and just being there is great. 4-5 hours walk, and still lots to see. Also worth to go to a couple of vineyards outside the park, nice and pleasant. But the wine is still not so good...

We may have had the same guide. Our guy was 67 years old, around 4 foot 6 and had a large silver revolver of some sort. He also showed us many pictures of him and an assortment of animals, plus western women in swim wear. In most of the pictures he was flashing his big gun. He was good. We only did a 5 hour trek through dense jungle/forest but I would have like to have done more. At night the park seemed to come alive with sounds of animals.

We visited the vineyards too. The whole area around the park is beautiful. The climate there at this time of year is very nice and the surroundings make driving a pleasure, which isn’t normally the case for me. It is well worth a visit anyway.

[burman]

That's a great little forum there Goshawk and nice pics.

Just read this on one of the topics there too:

An adult Peregrine Falcon seems to be living in Chitlom. I have seen it from my office window (23rd floor) the last couple of days and today brought bins and scope to get closeup views. It seems to favour the communications mast on top of the police headquarters opposite central world, as a lookout for pigeons.

Jorgen

I will have a look for the Peregrine next week.

[Goshawk]

we heard a very loud and strange flapping noise like I've never heard before. Then we saw a huge bird go over head between the trees

without a shadow of a doubt... a Great Hornbill - the 'stars' of Khao Yai

[Richb2004v2]

we heard a very loud and strange flapping noise like I've never heard before. Then we saw a huge bird go over head between the trees

without a shadow of a doubt... a Great Hornbill - the 'stars' of Khao Yai

I could have been. I only really saw a huge black outline briefly between the tree canopy. The sound was incredible though. I can only imagine that it must have been quite huge.

Thanks for confirming my croc sighting to the doubting Thomas's here. I thought that I was going to have to go back, catch it, and have it stuffed as proof.

[Goshawk]

The sound was incredible though. I can only imagine that it must have been quite huge.

its the sound of their wingbeats you are hearing.. "wup wup wup..." (theres my impression, impressive?)

just like a swans in flight, but much louder.. apart from the White Handed Gibbon calls, it's one of the most easily recognised 'loud noises' in Khao Yai..

[burman]

I still remember seeing a hornbill fly over Khao Sok park when I first come to Thailand, fantastic birds. Saw some lovely Kingfishers up in Tak last year too. A Peregrine falcon in Bangkok is my next sighting though, I hope.

Think I need to get out to these national parks more often.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Dodo Birds?

Yeah!

Well I haven't seen one before, but...

Er..., well the guide said it was!

[PhilHarries]

Dodo Birds?

Yeah!

Well I haven't seen one before, but...

Er..., well the guide said it was!

Sure you didn't mishear him and what he said was Gogo Birds.

As for crocs, judging by the escapee numbers during the rainy season floods you are likely to meet one in many remote areas of Thailand. Unless, that is, the locals beat you to it and then you can get to eat the curry and buy the belt.

[Changian]

This photo was taken in Khao Yai a month ago. Looks uncannily like a croc to me.

No need for any guide, we just walked along one of the trails by the river - the short 3km trail that leads to 'The Beach' waterfall. The cros was in the river and then came out onto the opposite bank.

[johnh101]

No No No !

It is a monitor lizzard with very bad acne.

[steveromagnino]

No No No !

It is a monitor lizzard with very bad acne.

I will load up the river water with some roaccitaine.

Fascinating thread ;-)

[Goshawk]

This photo was taken in Khao Yai a month ago. Looks uncannily like a croc to me.

No need for any guide, we just walked along one of the trails by the river - the short 3km trail that leads to 'The Beach' waterfall. The cros was in the river and then came out onto the opposite bank.

this is precisely the spot where i photographed it (most likely the very same only one) in Jan 07.

As i said before it's a hybrid escape and not a true wild Siamese Crocodile.

here's a

of the (probable) same croc

[MrPaddy]

Certainly are saltwater crocodiles

[burman]

They don't look like saltwater crocs at all to me.

I think hybrids from Siamese crocs is probably right.

[KireB]

It's only a hybrid, they don't bite!

[MrPaddy]

Hard to tell from the photo really, but they are definitely not the freshwater variety I was familiar with.

However, upon readin Wikipedia I just learnt something, I thought the siamese croc was a saltwater croc, in fact it is not, it is a freshwater croc. Although they seem to have a snout that looks crossed between an alligator and a salty, it could in fact be a siamese cross if in fact there are farms upstream or somewhere nearby the river system it was found in.

The freshwater croc below as you can see has a snout that neither of these 2 photos seem to have.

As for the black croc, google crocs and you can see that some varieties and particularly the alligator can be very black. Again with farms nearby as stated, it could be an escaped alligator that the guide was refering to as the 'black' croc.

Either way, I will think twice about letting my kids swim in a waterway up there, just let the other Thai kids go first me thinks.

Siamese

Freswater croc

Siamese croc

Salty