Have You Made A Will

[GuestHouse]

I acted as the executor to a friend's will and it suprised me just how complex these things can be.

It's not just your money and goods in Thailand (They need to be covered in a Thai will) but all your things at home, property, savings, pensions, insurance policies.

Pensions and insurance policies are usually covered by the contract or deeds of trust, so placing them in the will is not strictly necessary and can give rise to heavy costs. But you need to name your benefactors in these policies - pensions will almost certainly require that your marriage and children are legally registered (preferably under the law of your home country).

So I'm just asking, have you taken care of these things or is it one of those 'get around to its'?

[astral]

This may depend on where you come from.

For the UK a will should be a simple matter, unless you want trusts.

I have excuted 3 wills in the UK and will be happy to supply instructions if you PM me.

A will, once probated in the UK, is acceptable to the authorities here.

This is also true of US wills.

If you have any assets that you want to leave to a specific person a will is essential.

Otherwise local laws may intervene and your assets end up with people you did not

intend should inherit.

[Spee]

Good topic GH!

Can't say it applies to all people with Thai gfs/fiancees/wives, but my fiancee' had a hard time understanding what it means to be a beneficiary, how life insurance works, and so on. We had to talk about this a few times to get the point across.

My stateside will is in the process of being updated, and I've already spoken with my brother about taking care of things if I cash in my chips prematurely. Beneficiary statements on various holdings are done. Life insurance will be updated at the renewal point later this year.

Agree it is a big deal. Without it, the government will come after what they feel is their cut. Didn't know about the Thai will part. Will have to check into that.

[siamruby]

I do wonder what happen to farang who marry a thai ?It s very well when the farang die the Thai got all the inheritance but hence the law say that farangs cannot own land and property except the condo or own it in the company's name. If the Thai dies I understand the farang can inherit the land but not more than 1 rai or even keep the house as a farang can own it by inheritance but what really happen in practical? I am worried as I am a Thai woman who got some property in Thailand and I don't want my partner to end up getting nothing and getting kicked out of the country if anything ever happen to me I have been thinking about making a will plus life insurance to make sure he will be ok. ..yeah haven't got time round to do it yet This might sound funny to you as it seems to be the other way round for a farang and Thai wife!!! but really I am not a troll

[MaiSonJai]

I acted as the executor to a friend's will and it suprised me just how complex these things can be.

It's not just your money and goods in Thailand (They need to be covered in a Thai will) but all your things at home, property, savings, pensions, insurance policies.

Pensions and insurance policies are usually covered by the contract or deeds of trust, so placing them in the will is not strictly necessary and can give rise to heavy costs. But you need to name your benefactors in these policies - pensions will almost certainly require that your marriage and children are legally registered (preferably under the law of your home country).

So I'm just asking, have you taken care of these things or is it one of those 'get around to its'?

Obviously farang thinking.

Not a critic though.

What are the Thai people giving to their family when they die?

I mean mainstream Thai people.

Not the "rich" ones.

90% of them.

I pretty much think it is not going to need a lawyer to "share" the assets...

[alleypanda]

I dont have one yet ,not sure if my husband got one.From what I know in USA if my husband left me money or property and I am not an american citizen I have to pay Inheritance Tax more than americans. Can anyone confirm these,please?

In USA if you have more than 2 million usd the lawyer advice you to set up the trust.

[Cabana]

i was told by my lawyer to create two wills - one for my 'overseas' assets and another for my thai assets. The thai will is of course in thai language and specifies 'this will relates to immovable property etc in Thailand only'.

[GuestHouse]

70 visits to this post and only seven votes.

Either those of us who have voted are visit a lot or the other visitors don't want to think about th is issue/don't think it is important.

Making a will is the most important thing you can do for the people you care about to take care of them after you die.

[penelope]

Yes. My wife and I also have Parallel Trusts setup to further robustify estate resolution.

[siam]

My will is set up,Also my pension is also nominated incase i die,

There is nothing worse than seeing the property and money going to the wrong people,

I had it with my parents,When they both died,I am the eldest son and ended up with nothing,

One thing is for sure,My partner and children won't suffer the same as i did.

[JimGant]

70 visits to this post and only seven votes

GH,

Possibly because your questions weren't extensive enough. A key question for most of us reading this forum is: do you have a 'farang' will, a Thai will, or both? The subject has come up before, but I don't remember anything conclusive being determined.

It's not just your money and goods in Thailand (They need to be covered in a Thai will)

IMO, having two wills could be tricky, unless they're identical, i.e., one in 'farang,' one in Thai -- with one or the other being stated upfront as a bona fide copy. Tricky because the last standalone will written trumps any earlier wills under most nations' laws. I guess you could have two 'wills,' with each one reflected as a codicil (additional information) to the other. But this seems to muddy things even further.

In our case, the wife's US will is all-inclusive, with separate paragraphs devoted to property in both the US and Thailand. And per the Thailand property, it is written to address uncertainties, like what happens to the land if I can't inherit immediately (as under current Thai law). The Thai translation is in her handwriting, stating it is a translation of her US will, and that any translation uncertainties will defer to her US will. Such holographic 'wills' don't require witnesses under Thai law, but we did so anyway. Of course we could of had a certified translation done in town, but she elected to do the translation herself.

I'm sure Thai lawyers could make a case against this, but probably because of the commission lost. Even our US wills were done using Quicken Lawyer software, as lawyers really aren't needed for simple situations, like ours. We did have our wills notarized, even though under Virginia law only two witnesses are required. Notarization is probably good insurance, particularly here in Thailand. And having said that, we probably should have her handwritten translation notarized as well.

Would be interested to hear how others have handled this.

[JimGant]

From what I know in USA if my husband left me money or property and I am not an american citizen I have to pay Inheritance Tax more than americans. Can anyone confirm these,please?

If his portion of your joint estate exceeds, $1.5 million (the estate tax exemption as of 2004), then that excess would have to go into a Qualified Domestic Trust (QDOT) to postpone estate taxes. You'll get all the income (subj to income tax) plus any principal warranted via hardship (medical, etc). Then, when you check out, what's left in the QDOT will be subject to the estate tax. As an alien, the QDOT law was implemented to prevent you from taking the money and running. But you're really not paying anymore "inheritance" tax than a citizen -- the unlimited marital deduction for citizen surviving spouses only postpones, not eliminates, estate taxes. The QDOT does the same, although you are restricted to tapping all the principal. (QDOT applies to both resident and nonresident alien spouses.)

In USA if you have more than 2 million usd the lawyer advice you to set up the trust.

Well, for 2004 and 2005, you actually can avoid estate taxes on up to $3 million, assuming your assets can be neatly divided in two (with $1.5M going to each trust). But even if your joint estate is worth only $1.6M, setting up two revocable bypass trusts could save you $48,000, as that $100K over the $1.5M exemption is taxed at 48%. Or don't die until 2006, when the exemption goes to $2M (subject to November elections ).

[alleypanda]

JimGant ,Thank you

[lopburi3]

70 visits to this post and only seven votes

GH,

Possibly because your questions weren't extensive enough. A key question for most of us reading this forum is: do you have a 'farang' will, a Thai will, or both? The subject has come up before, but I don't remember anything conclusive being determined.

It's not just your money and goods in Thailand (They need to be covered in a Thai will)

IMO, having two wills could be tricky, unless they're identical, i.e., one in 'farang,' one in Thai -- with one or the other being stated upfront as a bona fide copy. Tricky because the last standalone will written trumps any earlier wills under most nations' laws. I guess you could have two 'wills,' with each one reflected as a codicil (additional information) to the other. But this seems to muddy things even further.

I believe the proper method is to have a will in each jurisdiction that you have assets and that they mention each other.

[JimGant]

I believe the proper method is to have a will in each jurisdiction that you have assets and that they mention each other

I've only had one will in the US -- but owned property in more than one state. I'm pretty sure I wasn't required to have a will for each state -- but I could be wrong. Property not in trust DOES have to go thru probate in each (state) jurisdiction, however. But, again, I believe only one will required.

Internationally, kinda grey to me. Think what we've done, although maybe not to the strict letter of the law, will hold up. Seems to be supported by astral:

A will, once probated in the UK, is acceptable to the authorities here.

This is also true of US wills.

[lopburi3]

I believe the proper method is to have a will in each jurisdiction that you have assets and that they mention each other

I've only had one will in the US -- but owned property in more than one state. I'm pretty sure I wasn't required to have a will for each state -- but I could be wrong. Property not in trust DOES have to go thru probate in each (state) jurisdiction, however. But, again, I believe only one will required.

Internationally, kinda grey to me. Think what we've done, although maybe not to the strict letter of the law, will hold up. Seems to be supported by astral:

A will, once probated in the UK, is acceptable to the authorities here.

This is also true of US wills.

I was thinking more of US and Foreign jurisdictions. Sorry for not being clear.

[astral]

There is no inheritance tax in Thailand at the present time.

I believe that a foreigner inheriting property has to sell it.

A child under 20 cannot own property either.

This is good reason for taking the company route when buying

a house, as you never know who will die first.

If you die you leave the company to your wife and she can wind it up.

If she dies first you are still secure in your house, and the will can be amended

as you wish

[phuketrichard]

quick question;

I had a nasty breakupo with my thai wife. We were legally married in the states not here in thailand. We have a child whom is with me and she has signed papers staing that I am the sole parent to take care of ehr ( in thai and english, done at a lawyers, also that she has no rights to anything of mine if I die)

I hae a piece of paper stating that all my pssessions go to my daughter ( half thai/half american) and appointing my sister as legal guardian until she is of age ( she is 10)

and also a loval farang to take crae of until my sis gets over here to ligudate the home/land/car etc)

Is this acceptable here? Can my wife still make any claim?

Thanks

[JimGant]

I hae a piece of paper stating that all my pssessions go to my daughter ( half thai/half american) and appointing my sister as legal guardian until she is of age ( she is 10)

and also a loval farang to take crae of until my sis gets over here to ligudate the home/land/car etc)

Is this acceptable here? Can my wife still make any claim?

Richard,

You can certainly disinherit your wife from receiving any of your possessions. But the key word is 'your,' and since it appears you're still married, the dissolution of property issue may still be hanging. I certainly won't pretend to understand Thai Community Property law, so won't even ponder what you two have that could be dissputed here in Thailand. But certainly hope that the 'home/land/car' possession doesn't have your wife's fingerprints anywhere near it.

Whether two wills are needed (US and Thai) certainly hasn't been decided here on this thread. And free legal advice doesn't pay for new yachts, so we shouldn't hold our breath. If I were you, I juess I would find a good lawyer. And maybe getting divorced could solve this -- and other -- problems?

[nogutsnoapplepie]

The Standard Will is suitable for individuals who want to give everything to one person. This person is placed in charge of your affairs by also being appointed as executor.

This Will does the following:

gives all your estate to this person; and

appoints this person as your sole executor.

Example,

A leaves all estate to B.

B is appointed executor.

A Standard Will is free of charge and is available to you immediately on-line to print.

Follow our simple two-step process by responding to our questions to make your Will.

http://www.wills.ie/wills/prestandardwill.html

[BobAnderson]

I agree that your estate is important and considerations must be taken for after you die.

BUT, not everyone needs a will. That's just a money making machine for the lawyers. (Held in less respect than even politicians where I come from!).

However, do check the law where you come from - and/or where you own your assets.

Everything I own is purposefully in America. My wife and I own EVERYTHING as Joint Tenants with Rights of Survivorship (JTRS). EVERYTHING we own goes to the survivor - no probate - no nothing. Beyond that I don't care. Our real estate and brokerage accounts are set up that way. Everything we have has internet capability and instant transfers.

Okay, suppose we both die in a car crash (not unlikely on Phuket!) - then I guess the State where my assets are gets the property.

So, I am open to hear more - but why would I need a will? Certainly there are others who can keep their situations simple as this?

[JimGant]

Okay, suppose we both die in a car crash (not unlikely on Phuket!) - then I guess the State where my assets are gets the property.

No, they dish it out according to their law for people dying intestate (i.e., without a will). If you don't have children, don't care that the nephew you've never met is a turd, or that your sister has been off your mailing list for decades, well, press on. Your assets will filter down per state law to at least one person you don't like.

BUT, not everyone needs a will. That's just a money making machine for the lawyers. (Held in less respect than even politicians where I come from!).

You certainly don't need a lawyer. Plenty of online software is available to write your own will. And most states (maybe all, I don't know) only require two witnesses to your signature. And if you don't even have the time to find two witnesses, write your wills in your own handwriting (holographic wills, not requiring witnesses). Heck, you both could do that in five minutes over a beer. And for the relatives you really hate, make sure you leave them each a penny, as they could sue if totally ignored.

As I mentioned earlier, I went to the added bother of having my software-written will notarized. As retired Air Force, this was entirely free by the JAG. Maybe I wouldn't have done it if I had to pay 5 bucks to a civilian notary. Don't know. But as the originator of this thread said, as have a zillion others, a will is a must. Notarized, or not.

Oh, life insurance isn't held in JTWROS. Without a secondary beneficiary, this too goes into limbo if you both check-out together. If your favorite nephew is now your secondary beneficiary, well, you now know to who's benefit you write your will. And it won't add to a lawyer's ill-gotten gains either.

Certainly worth the time to take.

[BobAnderson]

Hi Jim,

You are right about the laws for dying intestate.

I guess if I was concerned about my assets being distributed in a certain way - then a will would be appropriate. In my case - maybe not. We don't have kids, and don't have a running feud with anyone in the family. In fact, wouldn't care if the State kept it all. Not all that close with anyone either.

Technically - I think you are correct - that in fact I could use a will - and in fact, with your prodding - I just might think about it. Hmmmmm.

I'll have to check though - as I was just planning on putting one of my nieces on my property deeds as a JT after my spouse or I died. Can do that in my State.

Anyway, thanks for your thought-provoking (at least for me!) comments.

[T_Dog]

Okay, suppose we both die in a car crash (not unlikely on Phuket!) - then I guess the State where my assets are gets the property.

No, they dish it out according to their law for people dying intestate (i.e., without a will). If you don't have children, don't care that the nephew you've never met is a turd, or that your sister has been off your mailing list for decades, well, press on. Your assets will filter down per state law to at least one person you don't like.

BUT, not everyone needs a will. That's just a money making machine for the lawyers. (Held in less respect than even politicians where I come from!).

You certainly don't need a lawyer. Plenty of online software is available to write your own will. And most states (maybe all, I don't know) only require two witnesses to your signature. And if you don't even have the time to find two witnesses, write your wills in your own handwriting (holographic wills, not requiring witnesses). Heck, you both could do that in five minutes over a beer. And for the relatives you really hate, make sure you leave them each a penny, as they could sue if totally ignored.

As I mentioned earlier, I went to the added bother of having my software-written will notarized. As retired Air Force, this was entirely free by the JAG. Maybe I wouldn't have done it if I had to pay 5 bucks to a civilian notary. Don't know. But as the originator of this thread said, as have a zillion others, a will is a must. Notarized, or not.

Oh, life insurance isn't held in JTWROS. Without a secondary beneficiary, this too goes into limbo if you both check-out together. If your favorite nephew is now your secondary beneficiary, well, you now know to who's benefit you write your will. And it won't add to a lawyer's ill-gotten gains either.

Certainly worth the time to take.

Has anyone been down this road recently? Am in the process of revising my will since I now live in Thailand full-time, and it seems that if you have assets in Thailand and in another country, the USA for instance, that it does make sense to have a Thai attorney ensure things are neat and tidy.

[PattayaParent]

Double post.

Edit function went wonky.

Edited March 4, 2009 by PattayaParent

[PattayaParent]

I had a Will made in UK by a solicitor which included disbursment of my Thai assets ('insofar as permitted under Thai Law' or other such words) and then a Will made by a lawyer in Thailand specifically covering the Thai assets only (as recommended by my UK solicitor)