Would It Work?

[JohnPeel]

Good luck with your proposal Razz but first a little explanation to my last post. Seems you might have to do your homework a little bit more. So Kent News Agency spent a minimum of £5000 sending staff over to Thailand and lost it? And Drummond got the story? What does that tell you? The Kent News Agency can only dream of what they didnt get, i guess.

Drummond undercharged? I doubt it. If he used a PI I am sure that man was rewarded too.

You also appear not to know Simon at Red Door News. You really have to study the news situation in Asia a little bit more. Journalists have come and gone. Even good ones from Fleet St. Andy Chant I understand also works for Splash and Big Pictures!

Also most of London if not Bangkok knows that Andy Drummond and Andy Chant tracked down Gary Glitter for NotW.

But if you intend to come to make a living in Thailand for the tabloids prepare for a lot of flack. And here on ThaiVisa.com too.

And of course the problems about being pro-active is that like Drummond you get sued for libel.

You didn't understand my post.

A KNP photographer was sent on order by the NOTW to come to Thailand to work with Drummond, who was also on order. "On order" the newspaper will pick up your expenses. They might also pay you "extra" on what result's you get.

Maybe Drummond got load's of money for getting a result...maybe he didn't. But he certainly didn't approach the NOTW with the story"in the bag" and sell it.

Chant and Drummond tracked down Glitter with a NOTW snapper called Rod Todd...Ask him what he think's about them

As to your second point, I certainly don't profess to know Asia or Thailand all that well. A news or photo agency is just an idea.

Chant & Drummond have been there over 10 years...of course they'd know what they're doing... I didn't say they didn't.

But maybe someone can do it it differently

RAZZ

You're clearly a snapper as opposed to a writer from your references to paparrazi work u wish to do here. Snappers are not usually the best informed when stories are going down . There is no way the News of the World would send a news agency from Kent to do the Bigley story when they can send their own staff. (They did) There is no way AD would work with Kent News Agency in Thailand. The idea is preposterous. And if Ron Todd was working with Andrew Drummond where are his pictures of Gary Glitter???!!!

I suspect you have no staff experience in Fleet St but more likely a freelance who has spents few weeks here listening to bar room stuff.

The News of the World had stuff in Vietnam who were pulled out and replaced by Andrew Drummond and Andrew Chant. Then they got the result. The NoW photog involved may have got a b..ll..ck...g. I dont know.

[JohnPeel]

You didn't understand my post.

A KNP photographer was sent on order by the NOTW to come to Thailand to work with Drummond, who was also on order. "On order" the newspaper will pick up your expenses. They might also pay you "extra" on what result's you get.

Maybe Drummond got load's of money for getting a result...maybe he didn't. But he certainly didn't approach the NOTW with the story"in the bag" and sell it.

Chant and Drummond tracked down Glitter with a NOTW snapper called Rod Todd...Ask him what he think's about them

As to your second point, I certainly don't profess to know Asia or Thailand all that well. A news or photo agency is just an idea.

Chant & Drummond have been there over 10 years...of course they'd know what they're doing... I didn't say they didn't.

But maybe someone can do it it differently

RAZZ

Razz,

If you want to understand the complexities of either freelancing or setting up an agency in Thailand speak to the people who know.

You wont get many answers here. Also might be more diplomatic not to slag off journalists already here.

I have read your posts and your thoughts on chasing the footballer Ashley Cole's wife etc and the potential money to be made.

Perhaps there is. But there's more to life.

But your suggestion that Andrew D would work with the Kent News Agency for the News of the World sounds very unlikely.

This agency tried to go international but frankly with little cred. I suspect nobody here has ever heard of it.

And if Ron Todd was working with Andrew D chasing Gary Glittler - the US$64,000 dollar question is where are Ron Todds pictures. There are'nt any.

If you check with the NoW you will probably find that they pulled their team out of Vietnam having failed to find Mr.Glitter.

Working in Thailand sounds like fun. It can be, but there are many restrictions.

An idea born on a holiday in Pattaya without talking to journos and based on false research may well work...for a year. But then kiss goodbye to your home in the UK.

[photojourn]

For the benefit of other freelancers who might find themselves in similar situations the latest update on this is that following the threat of laying a complaint with the US District Attorney and highlighting the penalties KITV 4 could face the following email was received overnight.

The matter of a Social Security number and their inability to pay by TT/Direct deposit have been addressed in a return email. It's very simple, I'm not a US citizen so don't have a Social Security number. I am an independent supplier of goods and services. They've been told payment in seven days by Paypal (which allows use of the corporate credit card) or TT or the complaint gets laid with the DA.

After being insulted and treated in a rude and obnoxious manner by Shayne Enright, I'm not in a very diplomatic mood with KITV 4.

Oh the threat has also seen the real News Director brought into the picture as you can see. Ms Enright I think has been removed from the picture.

>>Dear Mr. Le Fevre,

Thank you for your assistance on the story. I realize that your images were above and beyond other stringer or freelance type video or information we normally receive. But it is my understanding that you did not communicate the price of your material during those initial conversations and that there was no “contract” for a specific payment.

However, KITV is more than willing to pay a fair price for the images we received from you. May I suggest that we agree on the $500 you requested later.

To process your check, could you please email me your Social Security or EIN number to asap. I will also need an address where I can send the check. Unfortunately our company does not do direct deposits for these types of transactions.

Thank you,

Tod Pritchard

News Director

KITV<<

Not a bad reference from Mr Pritchard regarding the work though

[JohnPeel]

For the benefit of other freelancers who might find themselves in similar situations the latest update on this is that following the threat of laying a complaint with the US District Attorney and highlighting the penalties KITV 4 could face the following email was received overnight.

The matter of a Social Security number and their inability to pay by TT/Direct deposit have been addressed in a return email. It's very simple, I'm not a US citizen so don't have a Social Security number. I am an independent supplier of goods and services. They've been told payment in seven days by Paypal (which allows use of the corporate credit card) or TT or the complaint gets laid with the DA.

After being insulted and treated in a rude and obnoxious manner by Shayne Enright, I'm not in a very diplomatic mood with KITV 4.

Oh the threat has also seen the real News Director brought into the picture as you can see. Ms Enright I think has been removed from the picture.

>>Dear Mr. Le Fevre,

Thank you for your assistance on the story. I realize that your images were above and beyond other stringer or freelance type video or information we normally receive. But it is my understanding that you did not communicate the price of your material during those initial conversations and that there was no "contract" for a specific payment.

However, KITV is more than willing to pay a fair price for the images we received from you. May I suggest that we agree on the $500 you requested later.

To process your check, could you please email me your Social Security or EIN number to asap. I will also need an address where I can send the check. Unfortunately our company does not do direct deposits for these types of transactions.

Thank you,

Tod Pritchard

News Director

KITV<<

Not a bad reference from Mr Pritchard regarding the work though

Congratulations. I stand corrected!

[RAZZELL]

You didn't understand my post.

A KNP photographer was sent on order by the NOTW to come to Thailand to work with Drummond, who was also on order. "On order" the newspaper will pick up your expenses. They might also pay you "extra" on what result's you get.

Maybe Drummond got load's of money for getting a result...maybe he didn't. But he certainly didn't approach the NOTW with the story"in the bag" and sell it.

Chant and Drummond tracked down Glitter with a NOTW snapper called Rod Todd...Ask him what he think's about them

As to your second point, I certainly don't profess to know Asia or Thailand all that well. A news or photo agency is just an idea.

Chant & Drummond have been there over 10 years...of course they'd know what they're doing... I didn't say they didn't.

But maybe someone can do it it differently

RAZZ

Razz,

If you want to understand the complexities of either freelancing or setting up an agency in Thailand speak to the people who know.

You wont get many answers here. Also might be more diplomatic not to slag off journalists already here.

I have read your posts and your thoughts on chasing the footballer Ashley Cole's wife etc and the potential money to be made.

Perhaps there is. But there's more to life.

But your suggestion that Andrew D would work with the Kent News Agency for the News of the World sounds very unlikely.

This agency tried to go international but frankly with little cred. I suspect nobody here has ever heard of it.

And if Ron Todd was working with Andrew D chasing Gary Glittler - the US$64,000 dollar question is where are Ron Todds pictures. There are'nt any.

If you check with the NoW you will probably find that they pulled their team out of Vietnam having failed to find Mr.Glitter.

Working in Thailand sounds like fun. It can be, but there are many restrictions.

An idea born on a holiday in Pattaya without talking to journos and based on false research may well work...for a year. But then kiss goodbye to your home in the UK.

I don't want to start a flaming war with you...But why comment about me when you know nothing about be? Bit presumptious isn't it?

For your information, I wasn't slagging them off...I was making a comment. Something which you seem rather good at about me

Having worked for a national Sunday Newspaper in the UK, had front pages including The Guardian, The Times, Telegraph...oops, sorry every national newspaper in the UK..I think I have half a clue

Just so you know I can't spell, it's Robb Todd... But you obviously seem to know more about it than me.

And my mate Phil Toscano who was working for KNP, didn't go to Thailand and photograph Bigley's wife, it must have been a mirage, he made it all up ...

RAZZ

Edited May 1, 2008 by RAZZELL

[RAZZELL]

For the benefit of other freelancers who might find themselves in similar situations the latest update on this is that following the threat of laying a complaint with the US District Attorney and highlighting the penalties KITV 4 could face the following email was received overnight.

The matter of a Social Security number and their inability to pay by TT/Direct deposit have been addressed in a return email. It's very simple, I'm not a US citizen so don't have a Social Security number. I am an independent supplier of goods and services. They've been told payment in seven days by Paypal (which allows use of the corporate credit card) or TT or the complaint gets laid with the DA.

After being insulted and treated in a rude and obnoxious manner by Shayne Enright, I'm not in a very diplomatic mood with KITV 4.

Oh the threat has also seen the real News Director brought into the picture as you can see. Ms Enright I think has been removed from the picture.

>>Dear Mr. Le Fevre,

Thank you for your assistance on the story. I realize that your images were above and beyond other stringer or freelance type video or information we normally receive. But it is my understanding that you did not communicate the price of your material during those initial conversations and that there was no “contract” for a specific payment.

However, KITV is more than willing to pay a fair price for the images we received from you. May I suggest that we agree on the $500 you requested later.

To process your check, could you please email me your Social Security or EIN number to asap. I will also need an address where I can send the check. Unfortunately our company does not do direct deposits for these types of transactions.

Thank you,

Tod Pritchard

News Director

KITV<<

Not a bad reference from Mr Pritchard regarding the work though

Congratulations

RAZZ

[RAZZELL]

An idea born on a holiday in Pattaya

Speak for yourself

RAZZ

[JohnPeel]

You didn't understand my post.

A KNP photographer was sent on order by the NOTW to come to Thailand to work with Drummond, who was also on order. "On order" the newspaper will pick up your expenses. They might also pay you "extra" on what result's you get.

Maybe Drummond got load's of money for getting a result...maybe he didn't. But he certainly didn't approach the NOTW with the story"in the bag" and sell it.

Chant and Drummond tracked down Glitter with a NOTW snapper called Rod Todd...Ask him what he think's about them

As to your second point, I certainly don't profess to know Asia or Thailand all that well. A news or photo agency is just an idea.

Chant & Drummond have been there over 10 years...of course they'd know what they're doing... I didn't say they didn't.

But maybe someone can do it it differently

RAZZ

Razz,

If you want to understand the complexities of either freelancing or setting up an agency in Thailand speak to the people who know.

You wont get many answers here. Also might be more diplomatic not to slag off journalists already here.

I have read your posts and your thoughts on chasing the footballer Ashley Cole's wife etc and the potential money to be made.

Perhaps there is. But there's more to life.

But your suggestion that Andrew D would work with the Kent News Agency for the News of the World sounds very unlikely.

This agency tried to go international but frankly with little cred. I suspect nobody here has ever heard of it.

And if Ron Todd was working with Andrew D chasing Gary Glittler - the US$64,000 dollar question is where are Ron Todds pictures. There are'nt any.

If you check with the NoW you will probably find that they pulled their team out of Vietnam having failed to find Mr.Glitter.

Working in Thailand sounds like fun. It can be, but there are many restrictions.

An idea born on a holiday in Pattaya without talking to journos and based on false research may well work...for a year. But then kiss goodbye to your home in the UK.

I don't want to start a flaming war with you...But why comment about me when you know nothing about be? Bit presumptious isn't it?

For your information, I wasn't slagging them off...I was making a comment. Something which you seem rather good at about me

Having worked for a national Sunday Newspaper in the UK, had front pages including The Guardian, The Times, Telegraph...oops, sorry every national newspaper in the UK..I think I have half a clue

Just so you know I can't spell, it's Robb Todd... But you obviously seem to know more about it than me.

And my mate Phil Toscano who was working for KNP, didn't go to Thailand and photograph Bigley's wife, it must have been a mirage, he made it all up ...

RAZZ

I think you mean he makes thing's up

The above is a comment you made about a locally based journalist who was sued for libel. There was also 'You should hear what Rob Todd has to say about....." etc. It seems therefore u have an agenda.

Nobody has doubted that Kent News Agency sent a photographer to Thailand and took a pic of Bigley's wife, Sombat. But he did not do it as NoW exclusive. They were taken by Andrew Chant. There was however a photocall to which all and sundry were invited.

If you have worked for as a snapper for news agency in the UK you will have had pieces in all the national papers. That's the nature of the job. So have people on the Ilford Recorder. But only the very best snappers here do well, outside the commercial and business arena, and generally they work with a good writer. Check the number of photographers in the FCCT year book and see who they work with.

What you are merely being advised is of the perils of starting up in Thailand and the way to go about it. The best way is to float it in the right places. Starting an agency to 'pap' people on holiday because that's where the money is may or may not be a good idea.

If you are good the newspapers will take the better material. At the moment however, I would say, Thailand is not the country of the future. Although reading the newspapers today Sven Gorn might have regretted buying a house here!

[RAZZELL]

I think you mean he makes thing's up

The above is a comment you made about a locally based journalist who was sued for libel. There was also 'You should hear what Rob Todd has to say about....." etc. It seems therefore u have an agenda.

Nobody has doubted that Kent News Agency sent a photographer to Thailand and took a pic of Bigley's wife, Sombat. But he did not do it as NoW exclusive. They were taken by Andrew Chant. There was however a photocall to which all and sundry were invited.

If you have worked for as a snapper for news agency in the UK you will have had pieces in all the national papers. That's the nature of the job. So have people on the Ilford Recorder. But only the very best snappers here do well, outside the commercial and business arena, and generally they work with a good writer. Check the number of photographers in the FCCT year book and see who they work with.

What you are merely being advised is of the perils of starting up in Thailand and the way to go about it. The best way is to float it in the right places. Starting an agency to 'pap' people on holiday because that's where the money is may or may not be a good idea.

If you are good the newspapers will take the better material. At the moment however, I would say, Thailand is not the country of the future. Although reading the newspapers today Sven Gorn might have regretted buying a house here!

I have no agenda in the slightest... I was just floating an idea...

Although I agree that "anyone" can get a pic in a national paper, especially if you're the only with it!

However, you attempted to make me out as some goon with a digi who'd been to Pattaya a couple of times and fancied setting himself up as the new "Darryn Lyons"

Of course I back myself to get a frame, ask the guys from Getty, Reuters, AP, AFP who i'm up against everyday

All I asked was advice, "Do you think it could be done?" not a million reasons why it couldn't....

You obviously know what you're talking about...but isn't "papping" people on holiday how "Solarpix" started in Spain?

All the best

RAZZ

[JohnPeel]

I think you mean he makes thing's up

The above is a comment you made about a locally based journalist who was sued for libel. There was also 'You should hear what Rob Todd has to say about....." etc. It seems therefore u have an agenda.

Nobody has doubted that Kent News Agency sent a photographer to Thailand and took a pic of Bigley's wife, Sombat. But he did not do it as NoW exclusive. They were taken by Andrew Chant. There was however a photocall to which all and sundry were invited.

If you have worked for as a snapper for news agency in the UK you will have had pieces in all the national papers. That's the nature of the job. So have people on the Ilford Recorder. But only the very best snappers here do well, outside the commercial and business arena, and generally they work with a good writer. Check the number of photographers in the FCCT year book and see who they work with.

What you are merely being advised is of the perils of starting up in Thailand and the way to go about it. The best way is to float it in the right places. Starting an agency to 'pap' people on holiday because that's where the money is may or may not be a good idea.

If you are good the newspapers will take the better material. At the moment however, I would say, Thailand is not the country of the future. Although reading the newspapers today Sven Gorn might have regretted buying a house here!

I have no agenda in the slightest... I was just floating an idea...

Although I agree that "anyone" can get a pic in a national paper, especially if you're the only with it!

However, you attempted to make me out as some goon with a digi who'd been to Pattaya a couple of times and fancied setting himself up as the new "Darryn Lyons"

Of course I back myself to get a frame, ask the guys from Getty, Reuters, AP, AFP who i'm up against everyday

All I asked was advice, "Do you think it could be done?" not a million reasons why it couldn't....

You obviously know what you're talking about...but isn't "papping" people on holiday how "Solarpix" started in Spain?

All the best

RAZZ

Phew. I'm getting blinded with all those smileys. We're obviously from a different school 'Darryn boy' isnt one of my journalistic folk heroes. Good luck anyway. Always best to know the 'why nots' first. You'd be surprised to know how many ex Fleet Streeters are actually here.

[photojourn]

Because Google's web crawlers have done a good job at identifying "KITV 4 Hawaii" and "KITV 4 Hawaii won't pay" from this and a couple of other forums I feel I need to add a closing post on these dealings for future reference by others who might find themselves in the same situation.

In spite of the hurdles thrown up regarding payment, KITV 4 made payment today via PayPal. The money is now (almost) in the bank.

I think the fact that they were named and shamed on this and another couple of forums also helped push them into being more reasonable - that and the fact that they had used the vision to start with.

Forums such as this are one of the few low-cost tools freelancers have at their disposal in a situation like this and I'd especially like to thank the moderators for not censoring the names or identities in this thread.

While I've learnt a lesson about when it comes to dealing with new clients, though I stress I've supplied many new clients and never had this problem before, there was some valuable information from some posters on b-roll - particularly regarding the roll the US DA could play - that I think are of benefit to every freelancer.

If we're professionals then we deserve to be paid as professionals and should not be forced to scurry around like chickens scratching for crumbs in the sand.

Every time someone accepts the crumbs they undermine every other professional freelancer. I've never heard of a station or publication reducing advertising rates.

Thanks again to those who provided supporting comments. :cheers:

[RAZZELL]

Phew. I'm getting blinded with all those smileys. We're obviously from a different school 'Darryn boy' isnt one of my journalistic folk heroes. Good luck anyway. Always best to know the 'why nots' first. You'd be surprised to know how many ex Fleet Streeters are actually here.

He's not my hero either...But he's worth a few quid...

RAZZ

Edited May 4, 2008 by RAZZELL

[klikster]

Photojourn - try sending them a cease and desist email giving them a time frame (I reckon a couple of days at most) by which they need to remove your content. Explain to them what will happen if they don't and also tell them you reserve the right to take further action for the breach of your copyright that has already taken place. At least it will show them you are serious.

Something else that should work .. send a DMCA notice to Google, et. al, their hosting company and the upstream data center (if applicable). Lots of websites have been removed from google based on DMCA.