Farang Pretend-police

[uptheos]

Are tourists being portrayed as so helpless that they need these police wannabes to help them out.

I, probably like many of you have travelled much of the world, where getting information and finding directions is a bit more difficult to say the least. I can't ever recall wishing there was a farang wannabe policeman there to help me out.....and if there were, I wouldn't want to be there anyway as it takes away the fun/adventure etc.....who needs these nannies??

Very good question. Let's address it directly.

1) Are tourists so helpless that they need these police wannabes to help them out?

The simple answer is; yes, many of them are.

They aren't ex-pats or experience travelers. If everyone was, there wouldn't be such a huge 'package tour' industry. Many people need the security of having someone hold their hands when traveling abroad. Most of them have never been more than 300 miles away from their homes before and now they are in an unfathomable country where even finding a toilet becomes a difficult problem for them to solve. They can't speak the language. They can't read the signs. They don't know the customs, so yes, they are often left feeling like toddlers trying to cope with an adult world. And just why does that waitress have her finger buried up to the second knuckle in her nostril while she puts your plate of food down on the table and none of the locals seem to even notice, much less care?!?

Ex-pats and seasoned travelers may never have any need or desire for the services of the volunteers, but the first time tourist often wishes that there was one on every corner. For people such as yourself; brave, daring, adventurous, on a quest for the hidden jewels of the Orient, the services of the volunteers won't be of much use. But why do you feel this compulsion to deride people who will help others? Or, for that matter, deride those who need the help?

2) Are these tourists being forced to use the services of the volunteers?

Again, a very simple 'no.' They aren't shunted through some sort of line such as at Customs or Passport Control. They have the option of asking a question or asking for help if they wish to or if they need it.

As you state, many of the readers here are long time ex-pats and very experienced travelers. Not tourists. Experienced travelers. I'm willing to bet that the majority of us have asked for help at one time or another. Haven't most of us ever asked where the bus station is? Or where we can find a clean room for the night? Wouldn't you find it easier (I not saying required, only easier) to ask someone who speaks your own language? Most of the volunteers wear small flags on their shirts showing the languages they speak. It's comforting for the inexperienced tourist to find someone who speaks their own language. Being a tourist doesn't mean you must suffer to enjoy your trip. In fact, I think most would prefer NOT to suffer or be challenged. Not everyone needs to prove something to themselves or to others. Some just want a relaxed vacation.

God knows it's extremely unmanly to ask for directions, and none of us guys would EVER think of doing so when lost, but tourists don't want to waste half their vacation being confused and don't need the stress. What is so wrong with providing a service to them that provides this?

3) the term 'wannabe...'

What makes you assume that the volunteers want to be police?

How about they want to be helpful?[/b

Know what? You've made sure to tell us all that you have traveled the world, "places where getting information and finding directions is a bit more difficult to say the least." I don't know about others, but I'm certainly impressed.

Are you a wannabe ex-pat.

I'm sure many people here have travelled the world without assistance, that's part of the adventure and I doubt if they have encountered wannabes up the Amazon.......you haven't travelled much I guess and I presume Chiangmai is 'the world for you?'

Never mind, keep wearing your fingers out - it makes laughable reading.

[FolkGuitar]

FOLKGUITAR ...they are in an unfathomable country where even finding a toilet becomes a difficult problem for them to solve. They can't speak the language. They can't read the signs. They don't know the customs, so yes, they are often left feeling like toddlers trying to cope with an adult world....

I've traveled 30 countries--from advanced to extreme third-world conditions. IMO, Thailand is one of the easiest countries to get around because of the reasonably good infrastructure and friendliness of the people.

I agree completely! Certainly easier and friendlier than France, and I even speak French! A lot easier than Papua New Guinea or Borneo. Thailand is a traveler's paradise in terms of getting around. But that's for you and me. Not for the folks with 'package tour' needs.

The people you describe in the above excerpt are indeed pitiful and clueless, probably because of their laziness to prepare for their trip. A basic travel book with the simplest of before-hand study and preparation would solve 90% of the problems you describe.

Oh, no question about it! Who was it that said 'the more I prepare the luckier I get?'

In this case, these "toddlers" you describe and the "police wannabees" must really deserve each other.

On second thought, let's keep 'em.

My point exactly. Although I wouldn't use the term 'police wannabees.' I'd say 'tourist volunteers.' Otherwise we might be tempted to call everyone who donates to charities ' philanthropist wannabees!'

[adjan jb]

Certainly easier and friendlier than France,

It's easier to find public toilets in France.

[uptheos]

FOLKGUITAR ...they are in an unfathomable country where even finding a toilet becomes a difficult problem for them to solve. They can't speak the language. They can't read the signs. They don't know the customs, so yes, they are often left feeling like toddlers trying to cope with an adult world....

I've traveled 30 countries--from advanced to extreme third-world conditions. IMO, Thailand is one of the easiest countries to get around because of the reasonably good infrastructure and friendliness of the people.

I agree completely! Certainly easier and friendlier than France, and I even speak French! A lot easier than Papua New Guinea or Borneo. Thailand is a traveler's paradise in terms of getting around. But that's for you and me. Not for the folks with 'package tour' needs.

The people you describe in the above excerpt are indeed pitiful and clueless, probably because of their laziness to prepare for their trip. A basic travel book with the simplest of before-hand study and preparation would solve 90% of the problems you describe.

Oh, no question about it! Who was it that said 'the more I prepare the luckier I get?'

In this case, these "toddlers" you describe and the "police wannabees" must really deserve each other.

On second thought, let's keep 'em.

My point exactly. Although I wouldn't use the term 'police wannabees.' I'd say 'tourist volunteers.' Otherwise we might be tempted to call everyone who donates to charities ' philanthropist wannabees!'

Good idea....give them a bright coloured T shirt (colour can be decided at monthly tourist volunteer meetings) with 'Tourist Volunteer' in big letters on the front and back.

They want to stand out in a crowd, this would do the trick

[FolkGuitar]

I'm sure many people here have travelled the world without assistance, that's part of the adventure

For many people, 'adventure' is reading a novel or watching an action movie. That's why 'package tourism' is such a viable industry. To thes folks, actual travel alone is just too frightening. It's nice to know that there are folks willing to donate their time and energy freely to help those who wish to expand their horizons, isn't it? Or do you object to people willing to help others who ask for help?

.you haven't travelled much I guess

Me? Nah. I haven't been much of anywhere or done much of anything that might get my old heart beating too fast....

Truth be told, I'm jealous of people such as yourself who can laugh in the face of the well known, stare down strange, dangerous foods without so much as a belch, and boldly go where every other backpack tourist has gone before.....

and I presume Chiangmai is 'the world for you?'

Just so long as I don't venture beyond the second ring road. It's much too dangerous out there.

Never mind, keep wearing your fingers out - it makes laughable reading.

Careful.... your anger is showing.

[uptheos]

I'm sure many people here have travelled the world without assistance, that's part of the adventure

For many people, 'adventure' is reading a novel or watching an action movie. That's why 'package tourism' is such a viable industry. To thes folks, actual travel alone is just too frightening. It's nice to know that there are folks willing to donate their time and energy freely to help those who wish to expand their horizons, isn't it? Or do you object to people willing to help others who ask for help?

.you haven't travelled much I guess

Me? Nah. I haven't been much of anywhere or done much of anything that might get my old heart beating too fast....

Truth be told, I'm jealous of people such as yourself who can laugh in the face of the well known, stare down strange, dangerous foods without so much as a belch, and boldly go where every other backpack tourist has gone before.....

and I presume Chiangmai is 'the world for you?'

Just so long as I don't venture beyond the second ring road. It's much too dangerous out there.

Never mind, keep wearing your fingers out - it makes laughable reading.

Careful.... your anger is showing.

No anger - I've been here too many years to get angry over these little insignificant things like farang police. I just think its bloody hilarious.

[lannarebirth]

I'm always astonished at the justifications some people can make for never doing anything that could possibly be of benefit to others. I often wish all that creative energy could be tapped and channeled in more constructive pursuits.

[klikster]

I don't think its a foriengers place to get involved in law and order of another nation.

Maybe you should be dispensing this advice to the military of a number of countries .. rather than to a few expat volunteers?

[klikster]

. than an all black Delta Force/SAS uniform.

I don't know about the SAS, but I'm pretty sure the "black Delata Force .." uniform is standard issue in Hollywood.

In the beginning, Delta Project aka Team B-52 (which eventually became Delta Force) guys wore camouflage fatigues .. no name tags, no insignia, no rank. Officers were addressed as "Leader". A small brass tag with a number identified them. Later on, the Delta fashion evolved to denims, Hawaiian shirts and Rayban shades.

[klikster]

Typically one of the uses of these sentry dogs was to be on point during certain infantry and special forces foot patrols.

Are you claiming that you were a SF MP .. and that you went on combat patrols in 'Nam with a SF team .. as a dog handler?

[KevinHunt]

As a current Tourist Police Volunter I am a little surprised at the nastiness of my fellow boarders toward those TPV that give back to the community they live in by voluntering there time. We receive no payment for our time nor do we receeive any perks such as work permits etc (we do not require a work permit by the way)

Why do you not require work permits?

Every foreigner working in Thailand, paid or volunteer, requires a work permit or a work permit exemption letter granted by the Labour Ministry. There are no exceptions.

Just curious, but...

Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not? Not your business, I say . It seems like an odd obssesion you have?? Strange, somehow.

You find that someone who would expect the police to comply with a serious law as "obssesed"[sic] and "strange"? I find that very strange... As noted earlier, it's very akin to being on overstay. Would I be "obssesed" and "strange" if I questioned them about it after they told the forum they were perfoming this work while on overstay?

Personally, I'm not that bothered about the issue. I'm sure that like every group of people there are good ones and bad ones, and some with good intentions, some not. The couple of guys I know doing this are nice, genuine people, so I don't question their motives. I'm not questioning their motives... but their ethics and morals by not being in accordance with the law...for a police volunteer, that would seem rather basic and expectant. If they're helping people out, good look to them . Well done. Keep it up!!

As for the guys I don't know - I assume that they're decent guys who have good intentions. Unfortunately, a lot of people here would rather assume otherwise. They'd rather assume some need for personal glory or whatever. They couldn't imagine that some people might just be doing this to make themselves useful and to be helpful, God forbid. Which probably reflects a flaw in their own character. Probably, the same sort of people that use the term 'do-gooder' as if it's an insult.

Don't confuse my line of questioning with the line of questioning they receive from others on this thread.

You find that someone who would expect the police to comply with a serious law as "obssesed"[sic] and "strange"? I find that very strange... As noted earlier, it's very akin to being on overstay. Would I be "obssesed" and "strange" if I questioned them about it after they told the forum they were perfoming this work while on overstay?

Absolutely!!!

[gpdjohn]

Typically one of the uses of these sentry dogs was to be on point during certain infantry and special forces foot patrols.

Are you claiming that you were a SF MP .. and that you went on combat patrols in 'Nam with a SF team .. as a dog handler?

As you must know...

In the olden dayz of SF, a 95MOS would have to carry a "skill qualifier" of "S" and "P" with it...not normally seen in the 95 MOS series..except "P" which every airborne MP company troop had. ( and you'd see alot of "Y" identifiers also and "R" ) also woulda have been "sponsored" to attend SFQC, second enlistment, E5 or above, possibly DLI schooled...but could have been attached, which could had even been from a LEG company..not being a "snake eater" at all...

In todays modern era of SF MOS, there is no MP in it. It's all 18 series identifiers..no more "skill qualifiers" at all..but they have been recruiting off the street ( less than .1% sucess rate through the now SFSC prior to SFQC..)

Delta came from selected indivduals from then current SFA detachments ( and some B teams ) and were "invited" to participate in a "qualification process" which was taken from the then SAS school..

You were informed/"invited" to attend and if you didn't pass, you could return to your company..very few did back then..pretty tough and the "Bull" made sure it was, he'd just been to the SAS school and was very impressed..

First Ops were under "Blue Light"..and were so successful that it became a full time thing...

But I was a cook...what do I know...

[sparrow]

I don't think its a foriengers place to get involved in law and order of another nation.

Maybe you should be dispensing this advice to the military of a number of countries .. rather than to a few expat volunteers?

I don't think they'd lesten some how. Could go on for hours about all that, would probably be quite interesting what with all these experience millitary people, but maybe later after this topics run out of steem.

[FolkGuitar]

FOLKGUITAR .

My point exactly. Although I wouldn't use the term 'police wannabees.' I'd say 'tourist volunteers.' Otherwise we might be tempted to call everyone who donates to charities ' philanthropist wannabees!'

Good idea....give them a bright coloured T shirt (colour can be decided at monthly tourist volunteer meetings) with 'Tourist Volunteer' in big letters on the front and back.

They want to stand out in a crowd, this would do the trick

Bright colored shirts with "Tourist Volunteer" would certainly reduce the signal-to-noise ratio here, however there hasn't been any other organization other than the Tourist Police offering this service. I'm sure that if TAT would organize it, it would get an even bigger turn-out. So for right now, some is far better than none. I'm sure that a lot of ex-pats with some time on their hands would be more than happy to help out if it were removed from the police image. I suspect that many of us now are from the generation where 'trusting the pigs' was simply out of the equation. Being a bit older and hopefully wiser, I now enjoy the memory of that old bumper sticker; ' the next time you're being robbed, call a hippy.'

As to UG's thoughts about not seeing them... well, I think perhaps that might be because most of the ex-pats don't usually frequent the trains and bus stations more than once every three months, or Night Bazaar less often. We tend to have our 'usual haunts' and stick to pretty much established patterns of daily habits. The volunteers are certainly easy to find on the Sunday Walking Street, Changklan Road on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday evenings, etc.

I was on Changklan Road for the first time in about a year last night. Changed so much I almost didn't recognize it until a vendor tried to sell me a 50 baht necklace for 300 baht! But I did see one of the volunteers pointing out something to a group of visitors in front of the Plaza near the police box. I was across the street so I don't know what was being discussed, but everyone seemed happy enough. Certainly no one was cowering in fear.

As for your suggestion that the volunteers "want to stand out in a crowd," I suggest that they wish to help the crowd. But as Anais Nin said; "we don't see things as they are. We see things as we are."

[sparrow]

I don't think its a foriengers place to get involved in law and order of another nation.

Maybe you should be dispensing this advice to the military of a number of countries .. rather than to a few expat volunteers?

I don't think they'd lesten some how. Could go on for hours about all that, would probably be quite interesting what with all these experience millitary people, but maybe later after this topics run out of steem.

Not sure the millitary would be the ones to adress on the subject anyhow.

[uptheos]

If people REALLY want to help foreigners with no other ulterior motive.

Stand at any busy place that attracts foreigners, wearing a T shirt saying in a few languages:

"I speak Thai - I can help you"

Instantly recognisable and fulfilling one's altruistic need, without buying into the power thing.

[sparrow]

If people REALLY want to help foreigners with no other ulterior motive.

Stand at any busy place that attracts foreigners, wearing a T shirt saying in a few languages:

"I speak Thai - I can help you"

Instantly recognisable and fulfilling one's altruistic need, without buying into the power thing.

cost alot less than all that police kit i bet too

[uptheos]

If people REALLY want to help foreigners with no other ulterior motive.

Stand at any busy place that attracts foreigners, wearing a T shirt saying in a few languages:

"I speak Thai - I can help you"

Instantly recognisable and fulfilling one's altruistic need, without buying into the power thing.

cost alot less than all that police kit i bet too

Absolutely, for less than 200 baht you can fulfill your own needs and help others in your spare time, without involving the authorities.

[Crow Boy]

If people REALLY want to help foreigners with no other ulterior motive.

Stand at any busy place that attracts foreigners, wearing a T shirt saying in a few languages:

"I speak Thai - I can help you"

Instantly recognisable and fulfilling one's altruistic need, without buying into the power thing.

cost alot less than all that police kit i bet too

Absolutely, for less than 200 baht you can fulfill your own needs and help others in your spare time, without involving the authorities.

So here's a suggestion take this to the TAT as a worked out proposal. The guys who are loudly decrying the police volunteers could become Tourist Volunteers. I am sure the new Governor of Chiang Mai who was the person behind the push for the "Polite Zones" during Songkran would be interested and willing to support it.

CB

[sparrow]

If people REALLY want to help foreigners with no other ulterior motive.

Stand at any busy place that attracts foreigners, wearing a T shirt saying in a few languages:

"I speak Thai - I can help you"

Instantly recognisable and fulfilling one's altruistic need, without buying into the power thing.

cost alot less than all that police kit i bet too

Absolutely, for less than 200 baht you can fulfill your own needs and help others in your spare time, without involving the authorities.

So here's a suggestion take this to the TAT as a worked out proposal. The guys who are loudly decrying the police volunteers could become Tourist Volunteers. I am sure the new Governor of Chiang Mai who was the person behind the push for the "Polite Zones" during Songkran would be interested and willing to support it.

CB

They could just print thier own T-shirts and stand around waiting to be helpful, sure no one would ask them not to do it, reckon they love dressing up and feeling like thier part of the police though. I wouldn't be joining either way, got a baby to take care of and work to do, lucky to find time for a beer with my mates never mind prancing about the nightmarket 20 hours a week informing tourists of where the nearest WC is located.

This forum is great for providing entertainment while the nipper sleeps.

I'm sure teaching a bit of english in temple schools would be infinately more benifical than advising package tourists. Since they don't care about visa regulations this would be perfectly easy to get in to. I'm sure if you had the backing of the head of the monestary the authorities would overlook you just as they do with the police.

[FarangCravings]

They could just print thier own T-shirts and stand around waiting to be helpful, sure no one would ask them not to do it, reckon they love dressing up and feeling like thier part of the police though. I wouldn't be joining either way, got a baby to take care of and work to do, lucky to find time for a beer with my mates never mind prancing about the nightmarket 20 hours a week informing tourists of where the nearest WC is located.

This forum is great for providing entertainment while the nipper sleeps.

I'm sure teaching a bit of english in temple schools would be infinately more benifical than advising package tourists. Since they don't care about visa regulations this would be perfectly easy to get in to. I'm sure if you had the backing of the head of the monestary the authorities would overlook you just as they do with the police.

LMAO and you keep entertaining me your comments makes me laugh each time I check here. also by the way I run a business have a baby, prance around the night market and STILL I find time for a beer with me mates

I guess i just manage my time more effectivly than you

Edited May 11, 2008 by FarangCravings

[sriracha john]

Thank you, I look forward to the posting of a copy of the required work permit exemption letter from the Labour Ministry.

It certainly would be appropriate for police volunteers to not be flagrantly in violation of the law, especially in light of the stiff penalties involved.

John I did not say i was going to post a copy i was going to clarify what the situation is and what there response is to your question

regards

The situation seems very clear already. The police volunteers are working illegally in Thailand. What the work permit exemption letter posting would do would be to legitimize that they are not working illegally.

As for doing things above aboard and in compliance with regulations and law, it always has struck me odd that police volunteers in particular... a group supposedly dedicated to the enforcement of regulations and laws have... thus far for 4+ years of Thaivisa...failed in this regard.

Any update on getting legitimate and legal?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I think the uniform tendency is just Thai style. How many security guards and service workers don't have some sort of uniform? Even the Yamaha mechanic service guys have fancy uniforms. Should a guy turning a wrench for 30 baht an hour have a nicer uniform than the falang police? if they are going to work for free then it seems reasonable to have a snappy appearance to compensate.

[Jefferson]

They don't look very snappy to me..

To me they trigger a response somewhere in between those mormon bible thumpers and a moat rat.

[FolkGuitar]

I think the uniform tendency is just Thai style. How many security guards and service workers don't have some sort of uniform? Even the Yamaha mechanic service guys have fancy uniforms. Should a guy turning a wrench for 30 baht an hour have a nicer uniform than the falang police? if they are going to work for free then it seems reasonable to have a snappy appearance to compensate.

I think it may also have something to do with cultural attitudes held by us westerners. We tend to judge people by their appearance before we've even met them. Many visitors have told me that they have been frightened by the guest house touts waiting at train and bus stations, boat docks, etc. simply because they looked so 'disreputable' to the visitors. Probably why so many western companies have dress codes and require business suits instead of jeans and a t-shirt. Of course a lot of western backpack tourists look pretty disreputable to the Thais too. Cultural attitudes will prevail. And 'when in Rome...'

Personally, if I had a problem in a foreign country, I'd look for a professional looking person to help me solve it. If I was looking for a drinking buddy, the clothing wouldn't matter. In THIS culture, professionalism is shown with a uniform. I wonder how many of us are even aware that there are dozens of different professions in Thailand, having absolutely nothing to do with Police or Military, that have dress uniforms with fruit salad over the breast pocket? Are the 'Boy Scouts' wannabee Border Police? They both wear bandannas with their uniforms. Hmmmmm.............

[sparrow]

Are the 'Boy Scouts' wannabee Border Police?

No, they are kids playing same same

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I think the uniform tendency is just Thai style. How many security guards and service workers don't have some sort of uniform? Even the Yamaha mechanic service guys have fancy uniforms. Should a guy turning a wrench for 30 baht an hour have a nicer uniform than the falang police? if they are going to work for free then it seems reasonable to have a snappy appearance to compensate.

I think it may also have something to do with cultural attitudes held by us westerners. We tend to judge people by their appearance before we've even met them. Many visitors have told me that they have been frightened by the guest house touts waiting at train and bus stations, boat docks, etc. simply because they looked so 'disreputable' to the visitors. Probably why so many western companies have dress codes and require business suits instead of jeans and a t-shirt. Of course a lot of western backpack tourists look pretty disreputable to the Thais too. Cultural attitudes will prevail. And 'when in Rome...'

Personally, if I had a problem in a foreign country, I'd look for a professional looking person to help me solve it. If I was looking for a drinking buddy, the clothing wouldn't matter. In THIS culture, professionalism is shown with a uniform. I wonder how many of us are even aware that there are dozens of different professions in Thailand, having absolutely nothing to do with Police or Military, that have dress uniforms with fruit salad over the breast pocket? Are the 'Boy Scouts' wannabee Border Police? They both wear bandannas with their uniforms. Hmmmmm.............

Yeah big cultural difference. Billionaires like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates can dress very casually and its considered cool as they are not trying to be superficial. In Thailand if you have wealth or social station then your expected to show it by dress etc. There seems to be a life cycle for this. A long time ago in the US or UK etc you had to dress nice but that has given way. There is even some softening in Japan where various technology and media types dress hip and casual. It's still early in Thailands cycle before this will be considered respectable or desirable to dress down.

[uptheos]

They don't look very snappy to me..

To me they trigger a response somewhere in between those mormon bible thumpers and a moat rat.

Excellent

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

They don't look very snappy to me..

To me they trigger a response somewhere in between those mormon bible thumpers and a moat rat.

Excellent

What is your definition of snappy Jefferson? A velvet hat with a big feather it in and leather chaps with butt cheek cutouts?. to each his own. do tell.

[KevinHunt]

Thank you, I look forward to the posting of a copy of the required work permit exemption letter from the Labour Ministry.

It certainly would be appropriate for police volunteers to not be flagrantly in violation of the law, especially in light of the stiff penalties involved.

John I did not say i was going to post a copy i was going to clarify what the situation is and what there response is to your question

regards

The situation seems very clear already. The police volunteers are working illegally in Thailand. What the work permit exemption letter posting would do would be to legitimize that they are not working illegally.

As for doing things above aboard and in compliance with regulations and law, it always has struck me odd that police volunteers in particular... a group supposedly dedicated to the enforcement of regulations and laws have... thus far for 4+ years of Thaivisa...failed in this regard.

Any update on getting legitimate and legal?

You're like a dog with a bone on this one. They are unpaid volunteers, being polite, helpful and friendly to tourists. Is that a crime? The fact that technically, legally they may need a work permit is inconsequential, unless of course you are the officious type.

Somewhere along the line someone has decided that it isn't important or simply not neccessary - probably someone of some importance. Probably someone with more important things to worry about. But for some strange (that word again) reason you seem to think it's important. They're breaking the law, and yet they're supposed to be upholding the law - shock, horror. Irony too!!!

Maybe in your eyes this country is full of criminals - expats showing their mother the local sights (unofficial tour guides) guys teaching their Thai neighbours English (teaching without a work permit) a bar owner changing the barrel in his bar (should have a work permit) . Just folk going about their life doing no real harm but ... technically..... legally speaking............... It's THE LAW. Black or white , no exceptions. No grey areas, no loopholes.

In England they're fining 78 yr old's parked in disabled spots in the car park because their valid, legitimate disabled-parking sticker is upside-down. 'It's the law.' they say.