Buddhist Persecution Of Heretics

[Rasseru]

On another thread I recently started here, called 'Buddhism by the Sword', I asked whether there have been any cases where people sought to spread belief in Buddhism through conquest and violence, in the way that Christians and Muslims have from time to time done with respect to their faiths. No one here (including me) knew of any.

I have now another question about Buddhism, similar in that it relates to violence and religious belief, but different in its focus.

Does anyone know whether there have been, historically, any cases where people were persecuted, in organized efforts led or sanctioned by Buddhist religious authorities, either for being Buddhists who held 'heretical' beliefs about Buddhism or for converting from Buddhism to another faith? For this purpose, I mean by persecution both torture and execution, but am open to hearing about cases, if any, that involve persecution of some other kind that I have not thought of.

As before, my question is prompted and informed by the knowledge that persecution of this kind has taken place a number of times in the histories of Christianity and Islam. In an attempt to learn a lesson from my earlier thread, I want to be clear both that I am neither seeking to bash Buddhism nor to invite anyone else to do so (having said which, I find it hard to imagine that anyone might think that I was seeking to do either) and that I am not looking to open the door to a discussion here of Christianity or Islam.

Applying yet another lesson from my last thread, I will mention that I have tried to research this question using Google and Wikipedia. I found cases of Buddhists on the painful end of persecution (actually, as I think about it, both ends are probably best thought of as painful), that is, persecuted for being Buddhists, but I could not find any where Buddhists were doing the persecuting.

Edited April 25, 2008 by Rasseru

[adjan jb]

In China starting from the 4th Century (AD), Taoists and Buddhists persecuted each other before the whole thing was resolved by mutual acceptation if not assimilation. I think that Buddhists were more often victims than perpetrators.

In Burma, churches are desacrated and Christians are forced to erect Buddha statues but this persecution is led by the junta not by the Buddhist clergy.

I believe that in Buthan, a Buddhist country, all religions but Buddhism and Hinduism are totally forbidden. This is probably a form of persecution.

That said examples of Buddhists persecuting other religions are very rare.

Edited April 25, 2008 by adjan jb

[Rasseru]

Thanks, adjan jb, for your post.

In China starting from the 4th Century (AD), Taoists and Buddhists persecuted each other before the whole thing was resolved by mutual acceptation if not assimilation. I think that Buddhists were more often victims than perpetrators.

After reading your post, I tried to do a little research on this. All I could find were references to the persecution of Buddhists, on occasion, based on the fact that Buddhism was a foreign religion. I could not find any reference to persecutions by Buddhists, not just of the kind I am asking about (note the somewhat narrow focus of my question), but of any kind at all. If you could point me in the direction of any sources I might look to for more information, I would be grateful.

In Burma, churches are desacrated and Christians are forced to erect Buddha statues but this persecution is led by the junta not by the Buddhist clergy.

If the persecution is not by or sanctioned by the Buddhist clergy, then, as I understand you yourself recognize, it falls outside what I am asking about. Similarly, if it is not against former Buddhists who have converted to Christianity, it is outside the scope of my question (although still very much of interest to me).

I believe that in Buthan, a Buddhist country, all religions but Buddhism and Hinduism are totally forbidden. This is probably a form of persecution.

If true, that could indeed be a form of persecution, although perhaps depending on how it is implemented. Do you have any idea if it is driven or sanctioned by the Buddhist clergy?

[garro]

Apparently Bhutan also has a Muslim and Christian community.

[Shuddee]

^ Like Thailand. Muslims are number two here though, I know that. Christians follow in place in third, but much fewer than Muslims.

When I think of persecution I think of someone I know who is now living in Laos. He is a devout Christian and he wrote me recently in an e-mail to tell me that he didn't want to continue to try to spread his "Word" around because he "didn't want to go to jail" (in Thailand). He said that he feels more free in Laos to practice his Christian faith, and he's now working in the missionary field.

[adjan jb]

I believe that in Buthan, a Buddhist country, all religions but Buddhism and Hinduism are totally forbidden. This is probably a form of persecution.

If true, that could indeed be a form of persecution, although perhaps depending on how it is implemented. Do you have any idea if it is driven or sanctioned by the Buddhist clergy?

From the US Dpt of State:

“The law provides for freedom of religion; however, the Government limited this right in practice. NGOs reported that the Government discouraged both large and small religious gatherings of non-Buddhists, did not allow construction of churches or non-Buddhist temples, and did not allow non-Buddhist missionaries to work in the country. Mahayana Buddhism is the state religion. Proselytism by other faiths is illegal under the Bhutanese National Security Act. “

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71439.htm (very interesting reading)

Christians (1% of the pop.) are allowed to practice at home (and only at home). So it’s not totally forbidden as I said before.

Since Muslims are less than 1% according to the CIA (5% according to some Muslim organizations), they can’t be number two. 25% of the pop. is Hinduist.

Edited April 25, 2008 by adjan jb

[adjan jb]

In China starting from the 4th Century (AD), Taoists and Buddhists persecuted each other before the whole thing was resolved by mutual acceptation if not assimilation. I think that Buddhists were more often victims than perpetrators.

After reading your post, I tried to do a little research on this. All I could find were references to the persecution of Buddhists, on occasion, based on the fact that Buddhism was a foreign religion. I could not find any reference to persecutions by Buddhists, not just of the kind I am asking about (note the somewhat narrow focus of my question), but of any kind at all. If you could point me in the direction of any sources I might look to for more information, I would be grateful.

That's something I read a long time ago when I was a student.

After reading your reply I also did a research. I haven't found anything yet on the net but i'll keep on searching.

Edited April 25, 2008 by adjan jb

[adjan jb]

In China starting from the 4th Century (AD), Taoists and Buddhists persecuted each other before the whole thing was resolved by mutual acceptation if not assimilation. I think that Buddhists were more often victims than perpetrators.

After reading your post, I tried to do a little research on this. All I could find were references to the persecution of Buddhists, on occasion, based on the fact that Buddhism was a foreign religion. I could not find any reference to persecutions by Buddhists, not just of the kind I am asking about (note the somewhat narrow focus of my question), but of any kind at all. If you could point me in the direction of any sources I might look to for more information, I would be grateful.

That's something I read a long time ago when I was a student.

After reading your reply I also did a research. I haven't found anything yet on the net but i'll keep on searching.

I have to stop searching for the moment (my son wants to use the computer).

Rasseru, if you want to keep on searching I believe that you (and other interested people) should focus on what happened after the Han Dynasty ended (3rd century). For a few centuries, the country was divided into small kingdoms fighting for supremacy (some were Buddhist, some remained loyal to Taoism).

[Brucenkhamen]

He is a devout Christian and he wrote me recently in an e-mail to tell me that he didn't want to continue to try to spread his "Word" around because he "didn't want to go to jail" (in Thailand). He said that he feels more free in Laos to practice his Christian faith, and he's now working in the missionary field.

You're saying someone could go to jail in Thailand for preaching Christianity? I find that very hard to believe.

[Brucenkhamen]

Rasseru, if you want to keep on searching I believe that you (and other interested people) should focus on what happened after the Han Dynasty ended (3rd century). For a few centuries, the country was divided into small kingdoms fighting for supremacy (some were Buddhist, some remained loyal to Taoism).

If it is as you say that some kingdoms were Taoist and some were Buddhist and they fought each other for supremacy, was the supremacy they fought for political or religious?

I would expect that most likely it was political, as long as church and state are seperate then the state is the one with the armies and their aims are political and economic, of course religion is sometimes used as an excuse.

Are your findings so far along these lines?

[bankei]

There have been cases, recently, in both Burma and Thailand where 'heretical' monks have been arrested and disrobed. In Thailand the monk called Phra Bodhirak was forceably stripped of his robes and made to wear while when he was arrested around 1990. He is the leader of a group called Santi Asoke. He still claims to be a monk - never having uttered the words of giving up the monkhood, but he no longer wears the same robes as a monk or he will be arrested. His teachings apparently contained a few heretical elements, but he was probably persecuted more for his political associations.

Another heretical sect, Dhammakaya is still going strong even though their leader was arrested also a few years ago over land transactions.

In Burma I remember reading something many years ago by Heinz Bechert about a heretical sect which was banned and outlawed. Cannot remember any details.

[Brucenkhamen]

There have been cases, recently, in both Burma and Thailand where 'heretical' monks have been arrested and disrobed. In Thailand the monk called Phra Bodhirak was forceably stripped of his robes and made to wear while when he was arrested around 1990. He is the leader of a group called Santi Asoke. He still claims to be a monk - never having uttered the words of giving up the monkhood, but he no longer wears the same robes as a monk or he will be arrested. His teachings apparently contained a few heretical elements, but he was probably persecuted more for his political associations.

Another heretical sect, Dhammakaya is still going strong even though their leader was arrested also a few years ago over land transactions.

In Burma I remember reading something many years ago by Heinz Bechert about a heretical sect which was banned and outlawed. Cannot remember any details.

This is hardly persecution. If someone does not follow the rules of the group or act in keeping with the aspirations of the group then the group will ask them to leave. This is the same whether from trainspotting clubs though to political parties. Now if someone got attacked or killed for it then it would be something worth hearing about.

[Austhaied]

Rasseru, if you want to keep on searching I believe that you (and other interested people) should focus on what happened after the Han Dynasty ended (3rd century). For a few centuries, the country was divided into small kingdoms fighting for supremacy (some were Buddhist, some remained loyal to Taoism).

If it is as you say that some kingdoms were Taoist and some were Buddhist and they fought each other for supremacy, was the supremacy they fought for political or religious?

I would expect that most likely it was political, as long as church and state are seperate then the state is the one with the armies and their aims are political and economic, of course religion is sometimes used as an excuse.

Are your findings so far along these lines?

Tao is just another word for The Dhamma. The I-Ching being their vehicle instead of the Eightfold path..

Again, same destination, different maps. Both through careful observations of nature and consciousness.

[Brucenkhamen]

Rasseru, if you want to keep on searching I believe that you (and other interested people) should focus on what happened after the Han Dynasty ended (3rd century). For a few centuries, the country was divided into small kingdoms fighting for supremacy (some were Buddhist, some remained loyal to Taoism).

If it is as you say that some kingdoms were Taoist and some were Buddhist and they fought each other for supremacy, was the supremacy they fought for political or religious?

I would expect that most likely it was political, as long as church and state are seperate then the state is the one with the armies and their aims are political and economic, of course religion is sometimes used as an excuse.

Are your findings so far along these lines?

Tao is just another word for The Dhamma. The I-Ching being their vehicle instead of the Eightfold path..

Again, same destination, different maps. Both through careful observations of nature and consciousness.

...and the relevance to the question at hand is?

[Austhaied]

Rasseru, if you want to keep on searching I believe that you (and other interested people) should focus on what happened after the Han Dynasty ended (3rd century). For a few centuries, the country was divided into small kingdoms fighting for supremacy (some were Buddhist, some remained loyal to Taoism).

If it is as you say that some kingdoms were Taoist and some were Buddhist and they fought each other for supremacy, was the supremacy they fought for political or religious?

I would expect that most likely it was political, as long as church and state are seperate then the state is the one with the armies and their aims are political and economic, of course religion is sometimes used as an excuse.

Are your findings so far along these lines?

Tao is just another word for The Dhamma. The I-Ching being their vehicle instead of the Eightfold path..

Again, same destination, different maps. Both through careful observations of nature and consciousness.

...and the relevance to the question at hand is?

With the same goal at hand, why would they want to persecute one another.

[Rasseru]

. . .

Tao is just another word for The Dhamma. The I-Ching being their vehicle instead of the Eightfold path..

Again, same destination, different maps. Both through careful observations of nature and consciousness.

...and the relevance to the question at hand is?

With the same goal at hand, why would they want to persecute one another.

I get the impression you are something of an idealist, who finds it difficult to think and speak in terms of how the world actually works, rather than how it should ideally work.

[Brucenkhamen]

With the same goal at hand, why would they want to persecute one another.

A good topic for another thread.

[Austhaied]

. . .

Tao is just another word for The Dhamma. The I-Ching being their vehicle instead of the Eightfold path..

Again, same destination, different maps. Both through careful observations of nature and consciousness.

...and the relevance to the question at hand is?

With the same goal at hand, why would they want to persecute one another.

I get the impression you are something of an idealist, who finds it difficult to think and speak in terms of how the world actually works, rather than how it should ideally work.

Perhaps we have a case of "Buddhist persecution by a heretic" on this forum.

"Read yourself, not books. Truth isn't outside, that's only memory, not wisdom. Memory without wisdom is like an empty thermos bottle - if you don't fill it, it's useless."

[Rasseru]

Perhaps we have a case of "Buddhist persecution by a heretic" on this forum.

Not sure . . . that speculation overwhelms all the hermeneutic skills I can muster.

[Austhaied]

Perhaps we have a case of "Buddhist persecution by a heretic" on this forum.

Not sure . . . that speculation overwhelms all the hermeneutic skills I can muster.

Whatever.

Have a nice day.

[Xangsamhua]

^ Like Thailand. Muslims are number two here though, I know that. Christians follow in place in third, but much fewer than Muslims.

When I think of persecution I think of someone I know who is now living in Laos. He is a devout Christian and he wrote me recently in an e-mail to tell me that he didn't want to continue to try to spread his "Word" around because he "didn't want to go to jail" (in Thailand). He said that he feels more free in Laos to practice his Christian faith, and he's now working in the missionary field.

I think your friend is a bit confused. Laos is getting its act together in a number of ways, but religious freedom's not one of them. The Lao PDR is a notorious violator of religious freedom, in particular against Protestant Christians. A recent example is at http://www.christianpersecution.info/news/...ders-sentenced/

As others have pointed out though, these are actions of a xenophobic government, not of any Buddhist institution,

[CuriousGeorge77]

I suspect yopu would be hard pressed to find an example from any case of official persecution where this was not the case, Buddhist or any other religion.

The question being posed as far as I understand it is "Is Buddhism sometimes used as an excuse for war/persecution/torture, et al, by Buddhists?"

Rasseru, if you want to keep on searching I believe that you (and other interested people) should focus on what happened after the Han Dynasty ended (3rd century). For a few centuries, the country was divided into small kingdoms fighting for supremacy (some were Buddhist, some remained loyal to Taoism).

If it is as you say that some kingdoms were Taoist and some were Buddhist and they fought each other for supremacy, was the supremacy they fought for political or religious?

I would expect that most likely it was political, as long as church and state are seperate then the state is the one with the armies and their aims are political and economic, of course religion is sometimes used as an excuse.

Are your findings so far along these lines?

[jumnien]

When the crazy guy attacked the Erawan Shrine two years ago I think he was beat to death rather quickly. It is dangerous to insult anothers religion!