The New Name For The Latest Os From Apple

[Guest Reimar]

Mac OS 10.5.2 = Vista made in Apple?

I’ve heard many different complaints about Mac OS 10.5.2 since it was released, from my own Skype/podcasting problems to issues with just about everything else, including: printing, third-party wireless routers, software freezing and problems with Time Machine.

The Apple discussion boards are littered with stories about all kinds of crawlers in 10.5.2, and while hardly an epidemic, they’re not exactly isolated incidents either.

Chuck Freedman from the PowerPage Podcast shares his problems with 10.5.2 on his MacBook Pro – he thinks it’s the buggiest software update in years. So much so, that he coined a new term for 10.5.2 – “Apple Vista.” The picture below isn’t a screen grab of the latest maze game, it’s Chuck’s MBP screen after a spectacular 10.5.2 crash.

Read more about Chuck’s tale of woe and check out six more gallery images after the jump.

Late in 2007 Apple began releasing its new operating system, Mac OS 10.5 (a.k.a. Leopard). With new hardware announcements in early January 2008 Apple began shipping this new OS with all new computers they sold, and wow, what an OS. There were tons of new features to knock your socks off. From then on, all Macs purchased came with Leopard pre-installed – life was supposed to be good.

During the early days of 10.5 Apple found a few bugs and tweeks and released an update to Leopard called 10.5.1, and again, all was well. I continued to operate my MacBook Pro running this new OS with near flawless behavior. I could go days (sometimes weeks) without rebooting my machine. I could run a dozen applications simultaneously and all was good.

In February Apple began shipping their Time Capsule backup appliance which allowed me to have a wireless network and shared network attached storage – something I’d been waiting for. Time Capsule allowed Apple’s new Time Machine software to automatically back up my data to a shared network drive and restore it easily. A great concept, but it still needs some bugs worked out (that’s a topic for another article.)

In order to get my machine to see, utilize and understand the Time Capsule, I had to upgrade my Mac to 10.5.2. Without hesitation, I did. From that day forward I’ve been running the worst operating system I’ve run on a Mac in years. My machine now runs slower and if I run more than a few applications at a time, it barely operates. It takes nearly six minutes to wake from sleep, and when it does finally wake, the mouse bounces around uncontrollably and requires a hard shut down to fix.

Again, time on my side, Apple released a keyboard firmware update to fix some issues. I applied the update, but didn’t see any fixes. Shortly thereafter Apple released EFI firmware update 1.5 - well things can’t be any worse (so I thought), so I applied it. Boy was I wrong. See the screen shots. Only days later Apple released EFI Firmware 1.5.1 which fixed more, but at this point my machine was dead. I’ve sent it in to Apple repair to get it fixed, and I’m waiting for its return.

If I wanted to run on a buggy crappy operating system, I’d pickup a PC running Microsoft Vista. I don’t expect this from my Mac. Mac OS 10.4.11 (Tiger) ran great whereas Apple Vista just appears to be immature and needed more time to cook.

Also, I know that Apple wants to push sales of Leopard but I don’t like being forced to upgrade because of some new piece of hardware is released. Rather than force 10.5.2 down my throat because I spent more money on a Time Capsule, why not just give me a driver or application to install. The OS should be hardware independent.

In the meantime, my Apple Vista machine is in for repair, and I’m writing this on my trusty Tiger machine.

Source

[Deksan]

Mac OS 10.5.2 = Vista made in Apple?

I’ve heard many different complaints about Mac OS 10.5.2 since it was released, from my own Skype/podcasting problems to issues with just about everything else, including: printing, third-party wireless routers, software freezing and problems with Time Machine.

The Apple discussion boards are littered with stories about all kinds of crawlers in 10.5.2, and while hardly an epidemic, they’re not exactly isolated incidents either.

Chuck Freedman from the PowerPage Podcast shares his problems with 10.5.2 on his MacBook Pro – he thinks it’s the buggiest software update in years. So much so, that he coined a new term for 10.5.2 – “Apple Vista.” The picture below isn’t a screen grab of the latest maze game, it’s Chuck’s MBP screen after a spectacular 10.5.2 crash.

Read more about Chuck’s tale of woe and check out six more gallery images after the jump.

Late in 2007 Apple began releasing its new operating system, Mac OS 10.5 (a.k.a. Leopard). With new hardware announcements in early January 2008 Apple began shipping this new OS with all new computers they sold, and wow, what an OS. There were tons of new features to knock your socks off. From then on, all Macs purchased came with Leopard pre-installed – life was supposed to be good.

During the early days of 10.5 Apple found a few bugs and tweeks and released an update to Leopard called 10.5.1, and again, all was well. I continued to operate my MacBook Pro running this new OS with near flawless behavior. I could go days (sometimes weeks) without rebooting my machine. I could run a dozen applications simultaneously and all was good.

In February Apple began shipping their Time Capsule backup appliance which allowed me to have a wireless network and shared network attached storage – something I’d been waiting for. Time Capsule allowed Apple’s new Time Machine software to automatically back up my data to a shared network drive and restore it easily. A great concept, but it still needs some bugs worked out (that’s a topic for another article.)

In order to get my machine to see, utilize and understand the Time Capsule, I had to upgrade my Mac to 10.5.2. Without hesitation, I did. From that day forward I’ve been running the worst operating system I’ve run on a Mac in years. My machine now runs slower and if I run more than a few applications at a time, it barely operates. It takes nearly six minutes to wake from sleep, and when it does finally wake, the mouse bounces around uncontrollably and requires a hard shut down to fix.

Again, time on my side, Apple released a keyboard firmware update to fix some issues. I applied the update, but didn’t see any fixes. Shortly thereafter Apple released EFI firmware update 1.5 - well things can’t be any worse (so I thought), so I applied it. Boy was I wrong. See the screen shots. Only days later Apple released EFI Firmware 1.5.1 which fixed more, but at this point my machine was dead. I’ve sent it in to Apple repair to get it fixed, and I’m waiting for its return.

If I wanted to run on a buggy crappy operating system, I’d pickup a PC running Microsoft Vista. I don’t expect this from my Mac. Mac OS 10.4.11 (Tiger) ran great whereas Apple Vista just appears to be immature and needed more time to cook.

Also, I know that Apple wants to push sales of Leopard but I don’t like being forced to upgrade because of some new piece of hardware is released. Rather than force 10.5.2 down my throat because I spent more money on a Time Capsule, why not just give me a driver or application to install. The OS should be hardware independent.

In the meantime, my Apple Vista machine is in for repair, and I’m writing this on my trusty Tiger machine.

Source

No such issue on 10.5.2 for me :/ weird ...

[sjaak327]

10.5.2 runs fine on my Dell Dimension

Im running a modified kernel, as I don't have core 2 duo.

"If I wanted to run on a buggy crappy operating system, I’d pickup a PC running Microsoft Vista"

Another person that hasn't got a clue.

[dave_boo]

sjaak327;

I haven't used an Apple OS since say the Apple ]i[ days, I know that couple of Vista installs I've worked with have all seemed a bit half baked. I don't know wether the blame lies with the hardware manufacturer's buggy drivers, Microsoft's code, or the position of the moon. I've found my SuSE installs to be rock solid, as long as I don't get too aggressive trying to squeeze more speed out of them and start hacking away at stuff I shouldn't have.

Having said that, it was a bit childish to include the quote that you commented on in the original article.

[slackula]

10.5.2 runs fine on my Dell Dimension

Im running a modified kernel, as I don't have core 2 duo.

"If I wanted to run on a buggy crappy operating system, I’d pickup a PC running Microsoft Vista"

Another person that hasn't got a clue.

I could probably lever a Porsche engine into a Ford if I wanted to. So what? trying to be |_33T??

10.5.2 is running fine here on a 20" Alu iMac, a 15" MBP and a 13" MB. I'll check back tomorrow on the Slackware Thinkpad that works as my server and shares my connection to be sure.

[sjaak327]

"So what? trying to be |_33T??"

Now I have lost the clue

I don't have a Mac (way too expensive for my taste), so that's why I run it on a Dimension, but the Imac would compare to the Ford right ?

Or are you talking about the holy grail (the mac pro, that indeed would be a Porsche, and twice the price of the dimension, sadly not twice the performance).

I was just stating that 10.5.2 runs fine on the hardware I run it on. And on the three mac pro's that I have at work, the OS rocks as well. So I don't agree with the article that Leopard is buggy. And of course I not share the author's opinion about Vista being buggy either. But what does the author know, he is probably a mac user, who maybe runs vista on vmware fusion or hasn't got any experience at all with that os.

Edited May 6, 2008 by sjaak327

[ThaiLife]

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

No problems here with 10.5.2 on a 2 GHZ MacBook Pro. I read that 10.5.3 has already been seeded to developers so we should be able to download in a few weeks.

[nikster]

here's my 2ct:

I am not even going to get started on Vista. With Vista it hardly matters whether it's buggy or not because it's annoying by design. I am not going to deal with it, sticking with trusty XP on my windows laptop. OS X on its worst day is better than Vista on its best day. The dialog boxes alone - Vista seems to be designed for maximum time-wasteage, at the user interface level. I really want to know how many dialog boxes it has, and how much text in them - it would easily fill several large books, I am sure. UAC? Oh, sure, it was "designed to be annoying" - that's a quote from the chief software architect for UAC on Vista! What a resounding success!

I have had OS X 10.5.2 for a month now, and it's definitely buggier than OS X 10.4. I have had a handful of crashes (tiger never crashed). It sometimes becomes unresponsive, or one of the apps that come with it freaks out. I have had Mail.app use 1GB of real memory, sometimes it's using 100% CPU, and sometimes it refuses to quit and needs to be force-quit. Likewise, Safari memory usage tends to get out of hand, like 700MB of real (not virtual) memory allocated. Restarting Safari takes less than a second though, so OK. Then again Mail.app has become the by far nicest mail client I know, so it's hard to leave it.

On the plus side, I have stumbled upon many of the 300 promised new features. And all of them have been helpful in small ways. The to do list in Mail is great, tabs in Terminal.app, the downloads folder in the dock, grid view, and many many other small enhancements. Things that make the day to day workflow more efficient, that make day to day use more pleasant. I am not using the big features like time machine or spaces yet. But the little things add up to make this a better OS than OS X 10.4 tiger. They may be small improvements, but the point is they are improvements. Would make it difficult to go back to tiger.

[Veazer]

I could probably lever a Porsche engine into a Ford if I wanted to. So what? trying to be |_33T??

Your analogy doesn't work, in any way. Look at the hardware specs of a modern mac and a modern pc. The guts of today's PCs and Macs are remarkably similar.

[sjaak327]

Leopard is better then tiger, just as Vista is better then XP. Indeed Tiger was very stable, but again, Leopard is stable as well, (with some tweaks here and there).

Have to be honest here, I don't use safari (don't like it) and I use entourage instead of the leopard mail application, so don't have much experience with boht.

" UAC? Oh, sure, it was "designed to be annoying" - that's a quote from the chief software architect for UAC on Vista! What a resounding success! "

It simply isn't. Again if UAC comes along many times, there is something wrong with your system. I get UAC twice a week, and one time is the hp update program, that runs each week to update my HP printer drivers.

UAC is a great feature, that enhances the security in Vista. By the way, the consent dialog boxes (prompt for id and pwd) are more numerous in Leopard or Tiger in my experience then in Vista. Funny you should complain about UAC !

[dave_boo]

Leopard is better then tiger, just as Vista is better then XP. Indeed Tiger was very stable, but again, Leopard is stable as well, (with some tweaks here and there).

Have to be honest here, I don't use safari (don't like it) and I use entourage instead of the leopard mail application, so don't have much experience with boht.

" UAC? Oh, sure, it was "designed to be annoying" - that's a quote from the chief software architect for UAC on Vista! What a resounding success! "

It simply isn't. Again if UAC comes along many times, there is something wrong with your system. I get UAC twice a week, and one time is the hp update program, that runs each week to update my HP printer drivers.

UAC is a great feature, that enhances the security in Vista. By the way, the consent dialog boxes (prompt for id and pwd) are more numerous in Leopard or Tiger in my experience then in Vista. Funny you should complain about UAC !

My big thing about the UAC prompts is how annoying they are rather than actually being a security feature. In a proper OS, you should have to use an Admin/Super-user account to Install system-wide programs. Essentially under Vista, you just have to click a "Yes" box and bam it's there. Not very good for grannies. On the other hand, how Linux is set up, you actually have to enter the su password to get the same level of havok across the board. I do find these videos really interesting.

[sjaak327]

You can customize UAC to do just that, the default, when using an admin account, is to just present the user with the consent, are you sure box, but for normal user accounts, UAC will ask for admin id + password, and you can also set UAC to do that when an admin is logged on.

This is also the main reason that it's better to run vista using a normal user account, as opposed to running as administrator. But again, even then UAC will let you change the way it will ask for consent.

[nikster]

" UAC? Oh, sure, it was "designed to be annoying" - that's a quote from the chief software architect for UAC on Vista! What a resounding success! "

It simply isn't. Again if UAC comes along many times, there is something wrong with your system. I get UAC twice a week, and one time is the hp update program, that runs each week to update my HP printer drivers.

UAC is a great feature, that enhances the security in Vista. By the way, the consent dialog boxes (prompt for id and pwd) are more numerous in Leopard or Tiger in my experience then in Vista. Funny you should complain about UAC !

Not in my experience. It's pretty clear when the dialog box will appear in Leopard - whenever something wants access to the system files. Which only happens when I install software. Fair enough, and good. I have declined to install several apps when the prompt appeared because I didn't see any reason they'd need root privileges. A proper Mac app is one that you can just drag onto your hard disk and use. Only very specialized programs should even need an installer.

In my week-long Vista test, UAC came along all the time and I was never clear on why it appeared. Most of the time it was unclear which program had demanded access and why. It came with a cryptic message like "process XYZ wants to ...". I had no idea what that process was, which program it belonged to, or why it wanted to run. I had to click OK without having any information on what was going on - that's not secure, that's random annoyance. This was with a fresh, clean Vista Ultimate install.

On Leopard I have to do something first to make the dialog box appear. On Vista, the dialog box appeared all by itself at random times, and it appeared randomly throughout the day, interrupting my work flow each time.

That said, and referring to the quote above - yes it was designed to be very annoying. Why? They wanted to force 3rd party software makers to leave the system files alone. The reasoning was that if UAC is too annoying, software manufacturers will update their software to trigger them less often. And it might very well be that this plan worked. Your HP printer driver is a good case in point - why would an update process want to muck with system files? There is no reason, and HP will fix it eventually, I am sure.

The problem with implementing UAC was, after all, that it was common in Windows all the way up to XP to do whatever you want on the system. To store anything you like in the registry. Vista is changing that, and overall it's a good thing. The only flaw is that the plan was carried out on the back of the end user. Personally, I am not interested in taking part in the "let's clean up Windows" campaign

That Vista doesn't, by default, prompt for a password seems like a huge flaw in the system to me too.

Edited May 8, 2008 by nikster

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

It seems to be a rather common thing these days that major upgrades are full of bugs that seem to effect only certain hardware and/or software combinations.

Now everyonje is quick to bash Vista because it's a fashion trend to bash Vista, not because Vista is actually bad. I have used Vista for closer to 15 months without a single OS crash or other major trouble. In the beginning there was lack of drivers and codecs, that's normal for ANY new OS i dare say.

Yet, for some it just doesn't work.

Complaining about UAC is also a fashion trend, it's easily disabled. What makes me laugh is people complaining about UAC and then ending with "I use Linux, it's better". Yeah. I am USING Linux now and guess what? Want to install something or even download updates? PASSWORD, PLEASE. And no, NOT an admin password, but your regular user logon password. Now THAT's sure safe, yes?? Stop the stupid Vista bashing, Linux guys, Linux ain't any better.

Oh, the "update" issue. Yeah, Ubuntu (that is a kind of Linux) has just released their latest distro version, 8.04 "Hardy Heron". I use that one, and it runs, 99% trouble free (touch wood!), on my home built machine that previously ran Vista trouble free. BUT have a look at the Ubuntu forums. They are FULL of posts like "Hardy - worst release ever", "8.04 - major disappointment" and plain "Hardy sucks". And even THERE folks pull the old bashing out the sleeve - "Hardy is the worst Linux on the planet, almost as bad as Vista". What a bunch of BS. Nobody ever actually USED Vista but copies verbatim what they have read on some basher platforms.

Yeah, good on you.

Now the holy Mac is hit with a bad update, too. Wow, never imagined THAT could happen, reading the fanboy's posts all over the interweb....... they bash MS and Linux users in one go, imagine that! When i read this one standard reply that has to come on EVERY thread about some MS or Linux problem - "Get a Mac". While i hate any kind of software problems, i am actually HAPPY to see something to stuff in SUCH people's mouth. Here, eat that - your super OS has it's problems, too.

Now my very personal opinion. The only "bad" operating system i have ever used was Windows ME. And i have used many - various Linuxes, every Windows from 95 to Vista, and the old Unix-ish Sanchec systems S-III and S-IV. Windows ME was the only one that would sit there all by itself and crash to a BSOD without the mouse or keyboard being touched. ANY other bug i have EVER encountered was usually a cooperation problem between installed applications, or a cooperation problem between one such app and the OS, or a faulty hardware driver. None of this can be blamed on the OS.

I am sure Apple will release another update pretty soon once they get word of the bugs in the last one, and all will be nice and cozy again.

Best regards.......

Thanh

[dave_boo]

Hi

It seems to be a rather common thing these days that major upgrades are full of bugs that seem to effect only certain hardware and/or software combinations.

Huge problem. Unfortunately, it's not only the software industry that does this; read the posts about new BMWs for instance where they expect you to be their testers!

Now everyonje is quick to bash Vista because it's a fashion trend to bash Vista, not because Vista is actually bad. I have used Vista for closer to 15 months without a single OS crash or other major trouble. In the beginning there was lack of drivers and codecs, that's normal for ANY new OS i dare say.

I'm 'bashing' Vista because it's nothing that it was supposed to be and buggy to boot. Remember the database filesystem that was left out? There's plenty of other things that were supposed to make it in and didn't. Also, the fact that you have to pay for those bugs really chafes my ass, whereas in Linux the fact that you're not being charged mitigates a lot of that resentment. If on the other hand I was buying boxed sets from a distributor with an implied or guaranteed level of performance, I'd expect that Linux distro to be bug free-ish.

Yet, for some it just doesn't work.

On my laptop there's quite a few features that don't work properly. While it would seem to be drivers, I can't nail the problem down exactly. I do know there are some Windows issues though. For example why can't I keep services in the start up without them being moved into that annoying "disabled startup" thingy?

Complaining about UAC is also a fashion trend, it's easily disabled. What makes me laugh is people complaining about UAC and then ending with "I use Linux, it's better". Yeah. I am USING Linux now and guess what? Want to install something or even download updates? PASSWORD, PLEASE. And no, NOT an admin password, but your regular user logon password. Now THAT's sure safe, yes?? Stop the stupid Vista bashing, Linux guys, Linux ain't any better.

The reason that Linux users bash it is because it's nagware, not a valid security feature. And yes you can disable it, but then you take away one of Vista's few security improvements over XP. I've also made the point in the past--Ubuntu is an idiot's distro. For nothing else other than what you're talking about. The fact that you can sudo with your own password keeps it from being taken seriously in real Linux user's minds. And the fact that you're installing system-wide changes is what's not safe. A real user would simply install it to the local account; the way it's supposed to work on a 'real' Linux distro.

Oh, the "update" issue. Yeah, Ubuntu (that is a kind of Linux) has just released their latest distro version, 8.04 "Hardy Heron". I use that one, and it runs, 99% trouble free (touch wood!), on my home built machine that previously ran Vista trouble free. BUT have a look at the Ubuntu forums. They are FULL of posts like "Hardy - worst release ever", "8.04 - major disappointment" and plain "Hardy sucks". And even THERE folks pull the old bashing out the sleeve - "Hardy is the worst Linux on the planet, almost as bad as Vista". What a bunch of BS. Nobody ever actually USED Vista but copies verbatim what they have read on some basher platforms.

Yeah, good on you.

Now the holy Mac is hit with a bad update, too. Wow, never imagined THAT could happen, reading the fanboy's posts all over the interweb....... they bash MS and Linux users in one go, imagine that! When i read this one standard reply that has to come on EVERY thread about some MS or Linux problem - "Get a Mac". While i hate any kind of software problems, i am actually HAPPY to see something to stuff in SUCH people's mouth. Here, eat that - your super OS has it's problems, too.

Now my very personal opinion. The only "bad" operating system i have ever used was Windows ME. And i have used many - various Linuxes, every Windows from 95 to Vista, and the old Unix-ish Sanchec systems S-III and S-IV. Windows ME was the only one that would sit there all by itself and crash to a BSOD without the mouse or keyboard being touched. ANY other bug i have EVER encountered was usually a cooperation problem between installed applications, or a cooperation problem between one such app and the OS, or a faulty hardware driver. None of this can be blamed on the OS.

I luckily never had to use ME. At the time I was on 98SE, and only upgraded to XP when I built a newer computer. It was rather nice for a Window's operating system, and played the games I wanted. You never had any problems with pre-NT 5 releases and memory leaks?

I am sure Apple will release another update pretty soon once they get word of the bugs in the last one, and all will be nice and cozy again.

Best regards.......

Thanh