Surely Dowry Is Tradition?

[bigtimeali]

hi every one, i've been reading up on everybodys dowry comments, and it seems to me that its a bit of a sore wound and its making me paranoid because i get wed in a few months. the lady i met is ace, known her for 2 and a half years. i go to LOS regularly and spend a load of time with her, her family is quite industrious owning 2 businesses, (chemical fertilizer for rice paddys) and they seem on the ball. i agreed to pay 500,000 baht for sin sod but i will get back 400,000. she is only 22 years old and has college education and i'm 28 and have a very good job. all i ask is that people give me a bit feedback about if this is a realistic figure for sin sod. i know that most people don't like paying sin sod but i think that if i am going to settle in thailand i need to respect tradition and thai culture, so please sensible answers people

many thanks

Ali

[Briggsy]

I predict a thread of a minimum of 100 posts.

[Brigante7]

hi every one, i've been reading up on everybodys dowry comments, and it seems to me that its a bit of a sore wound and its making me paranoid because i get wed in a few months. the lady i met is ace, known her for 2 and a half years. i go to LOS regularly and spend a load of time with her, her family is quite industrious owning 2 businesses, (chemical fertilizer for rice paddys) and they seem on the ball. i agreed to pay 500,000 baht for sin sod but i will get back 400,000. she is only 22 years old and has college education and i'm 28 and have a very good job. all i ask is that people give me a bit feedback about if this is a realistic figure for sin sod. i know that most people don't like paying sin sod but i think that if i am going to settle in thailand i need to respect tradition and thai culture, so please sensible answers people

many thanks

Ali

My wifes father refused a dowry, even for show, said he didn't worry what other people thought just as long as I looked after his daughter and the fact that I flew him and his wife to Scotland for the wedding probably helped with the image issue more. When we went back to Thailand for a holiday and to take our son back for the first time, I took the whole family (All 25 ) out for a meal and a night of karaoke, did the trick.

[Carib]

hi every one, i've been reading up on everybodys dowry comments, and it seems to me that its a bit of a sore wound and its making me paranoid because i get wed in a few months. the lady i met is ace, known her for 2 and a half years. i go to LOS regularly and spend a load of time with her, her family is quite industrious owning 2 businesses, (chemical fertilizer for rice paddys) and they seem on the ball. i agreed to pay 500,000 baht for sin sod but i will get back 400,000. she is only 22 years old and has college education and i'm 28 and have a very good job. all i ask is that people give me a bit feedback about if this is a realistic figure for sin sod. i know that most people don't like paying sin sod but i think that if i am going to settle in thailand i need to respect tradition and thai culture, so please sensible answers people

many thanks

Ali

A grand total of 100.000 for a girl from a good background seems fair i think. Especially considering the deal they make in to paying you back the rest of the `public` amount.

They "win" face.... you " lose" 100.000 And that is talking money wise. Maybe you win a lot of other things this way.

If you are ok with it, and you did say that , If you can afford it, and you said you have a good job, and if you feel good about it in respecting the traditions you are `connecting` with, just do it.

Close this topic, otherwise you will be divorced even before you got married, and looking at the amount, it is not worth that.

C

[bigtimeali]

cheers for the comments, but i just read the others posts on sin sod and the main point that came across is that westerners felt quite angry about paying it through principle, i'm not being funny but surely if you want to make a good impression and show a bit of consideration without getting ripped of obviously, then you have to have a bit of consideration for there customs. i do not want my marriage stepping off on the wrong foot, so that is why i am willing to pay sin sod and the money the family are getting i can afford to give. i've still got a lot to learn about thai culture, and i'm willing to adapt to a certain point. hopefully i won't be as bitter as some of the people that made comments on the other threads in a few years time.

once again thanks for the comments

[jumnien]

I gladly paid 1,000,000 baht to my wife's family of which 500,000 was returned. To put it in perspective, in the first 5 years of our marriage we've given her family a total of 15% of what we give just my mother back in the USA. The bottom line is it's a wonderful way to show respect for tradition and for one's elders and for Thai culture. I should add that my father-in-law invited 1,800 guests to our sit-down wedding party which he paid for entirely. It all comes down to what you can afford to pay and what your life circumstances are.

[jaiyenyen]

Hi bigtimeali,

I'm 50, my wife is 41, she was a widdow and both her parents are dead. The rest of the family are very poor.

As far as I am aware, I didn't have to pay sinsod, but I did, then got it back. The giving of sinsod in my case was part of the Thai Buddhist wedding ceremony. I gave 100,000 baht cash and 15,000 baht (weight) gold.

I was happy to go along with the sinsod idea because, like it or not, it is tradition here, and it seems to make people happy.

Your post above, for me, is right on the money. With your attitude i think you will enjoy a long and happy association with Thailand and it's people.

Good Luck to you both.

[jaideeguy]

As I understand it, the wife's family is obligated to 'house and accomodate' any of your family members that come over to attend the wedding and that the newly weds get the proceeds [$ gifts in envelopes] after the wedding is over, so you may end up getting your money back with profit.......but, being a falang, the $ gifts may be less because it's assumed you are rich.

[soisicknote]

I predict a thread of a minimum of 100 posts.

if u think ur gonna get back 400,000 baht back from the family ur living in up in the clouds im sorry i realy am. good luck to u just b careful

[soisicknote]

Hi bigtimeali,

I'm 50, my wife is 41, she was a widdow and both her parents are dead. The rest of the family are very poor.

As far as I am aware, I didn't have to pay sinsod, but I did, then got it back. The giving of sinsod in my case was part of the Thai Buddhist wedding ceremony. I gave 100,000 baht cash and 15,000 baht (weight) gold.

I was happy to go along with the sinsod idea because, like it or not, it is tradition here, and it seems to make people happy.

Your post above, for me, is right on the money. With your attitude i think you will enjoy a long and happy association with Thailand and it's people.

Good Luck to you both.

thai tradition originaly was one dowry ur 1st wedding, but when we got here that tradition went out the window

[britmaveric]

Not a dowry for starters, its sinsot or bride price. Any rate tradition says its for show, so technically speaking you should receive the entire amount back unless you have agreed to cover the wedding expenses or smth like that.

Edited May 28, 2008 by britmaveric

[rgs2001uk]

Hi bigtimeali,

I'm 50, my wife is 41, she was a widdow and both her parents are dead. The rest of the family are very poor.

As far as I am aware, I didn't have to pay sinsod, but I did, then got it back. The giving of sinsod in my case was part of the Thai Buddhist wedding ceremony. I gave 100,000 baht cash and 15,000 baht (weight) gold.

I was happy to go along with the sinsod idea because, like it or not, it is tradition here, and it seems to make people happy.

Your post above, for me, is right on the money. With your attitude i think you will enjoy a long and happy association with Thailand and it's people.

Good Luck to you both.

i am actually having a bit of difficulty believing this, do you know the weight of one baht of gold, never mind 15,000, are you sure you didnt mean to say 15 baht of gold which would work out to roughly 225 grammes or 15,000 thai baht worth of gold?

[Tod Daniels]

This subject has been beaten to death on this and other forums. . .

In my opinion; if the girl has a higher education (NOT just finished high school), has NEVER been married, nor had any children, perhaps there is something to be said for putting on a "show" for the thais in attendance. I said ‘perhaps’ and that would be only IF you have the understanding that you receive the entire amount back after the ‘dog and pony show’ thais call a wedding ceremony.

That being said, please realize there is no such thing as tradition or culture in this country; only generations of brainwashing pawned off as such to the point they accept it without question. Not being particularly critical thinkers, nor realizing there is a box to think inside or outside of doesn’t help their plight.

Realize that MANY affluent thais marry every day without a single baht being exchanged. Also realize the sin-sod expectations may rise precipitously when a foreigner is in the marriage mix. I have seen this even if the woman has children by a previous relationship, which to thai eyes would label the woman as "second hand goods" worth not a satang.

Don't be so quick to embrace the mindless sock puppet-like alleged traditions or culture in this country without using your first world background to question things that don't seem quite right. Often times things that don’t seem quite right, aren’t right at all after further pondering. Googling sin-sod thailand or even dowry thailand and you will get a clearer understanding of how outmoded and one sided this 'tradition' has become. Asking anonymous posters on a forum about thailand would probably not be my first line of action as you will probably get a wide disparity of answers.

As with any forum, this forum being no exception; there are two fairly clearly delineated factions. On this forum there are the “we-b-thais” who view things with rose colored glasses and think these are wonderful ever smiling yet diminutive people and embrace the alleged culture and traditions in this small developing third world country without question. The opposing faction would be the “thai-bashers”, who try to see things for what they really are, question everything and trust no one. I believe the truth lies somewhere in the murky middle, but when in doubt I side with the thai bashing faction.

You’ve got to decide where your comfort level is with the whole “alleged culture” thing. Unfortunately your “on the ground” real life experience in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” is sorely lacking. My advice to you is; question everything, believe nothing unless you see it with your own eyes, and trust no one. Obviously having said that I know already you will now discount my advice.

Good Luck…

(edited for clarity & a pesky spelling error)

Edited May 28, 2008 by tod-daniels

[coventry]

Just because it's tradition doesn't make it right. Correct me if I'm wrong but the dowery system is illegal now in India because of it being out-dated. The same should apply here as it's only kept alive by a few die hard Thais looking for a get rich quick scam. Enough said.

Tod-Daniels I endorse your post, very good.

Bigtimeali go read the thread in Isaan forum on dowery

Edited May 28, 2008 by coventry

[guava]

I didn't pay any, but I did pay entirely for our wedding (~150K) (though got the same amount and then some back in money/gifts). My wife was single, never married, no kids, tertiary educated, and has a good job.

Wife's family are Bangkok Thais, and my wife still does support her mother monthly. Sin sod wasn't raised, and AFAIK, no-one made an issue of it. Should my mother-in-law later need further financial support down the track, and I am still in a position to provide it, I almost certainly would, though I doubt she'd ask. Would do the same for my folks of course.

Whilst I consider it to be an outdated practise, and many families (especially poorer rural families) still do insist on it, and to a large extent they seem to take the piss when the male is farang and/or wealthy.

Having said that, it's entirely up to you really. I'm telling you my situation just for your own reference, but if you decide it needs to be done, it keeps the peace, earns respect etc, then do it. I respect your decision absolutely and I'd be the last to ever ridicule you either way.

Best of luck!

[ThaiLife]

Tod-Daniels I endorse your post, very good. . I second that , its time to come into the kitchen and smell the coffee

[kingwilly]

Hi bigtimeali,

I'm 50, my wife is 41, she was a widdow and both her parents are dead. The rest of the family are very poor.

As far as I am aware, I didn't have to pay sinsod, but I did, then got it back. The giving of sinsod in my case was part of the Thai Buddhist wedding ceremony. I gave 100,000 baht cash and 15,000 baht (weight) gold.

I was happy to go along with the sinsod idea because, like it or not, it is tradition here, and it seems to make people happy.

Your post above, for me, is right on the money. With your attitude i think you will enjoy a long and happy association with Thailand and it's people.

Good Luck to you both.

of course it makes them happy!

[ajarnmark]

hi every one, i've been reading up on everybodys dowry comments, and it seems to me that its a bit of a sore wound and its making me paranoid because i get wed in a few months. the lady i met is ace, known her for 2 and a half years. i go to LOS regularly and spend a load of time with her, her family is quite industrious owning 2 businesses, (chemical fertilizer for rice paddys) and they seem on the ball. i agreed to pay 500,000 baht for sin sod but i will get back 400,000. she is only 22 years old and has college education and i'm 28 and have a very good job. all i ask is that people give me a bit feedback about if this is a realistic figure for sin sod. i know that most people don't like paying sin sod but i think that if i am going to settle in thailand i need to respect tradition and thai culture, so please sensible answers people

many thanks

Ali

For sinsod, a lot depends on which family the girl comes from. To me its more of an Isaan thing than BKK. However, many families in BKK demand sinsod and, hopefully, return more than sinsod.

So if you gf is not from Isaan, educated and from a decent family, 100k is not a big deal, as it maybe your share of wedding expenses.

A lot also depends on her background. If you need further personal advice, you can send me PM.

[thaihome]

Just because it's tradition doesn't make it right. Correct me if I'm wrong but the dowery system is illegal now in India because of it being out-dated. The same should apply here as it's only kept alive by a few die hard Thais looking for a get rich quick scam. Enough said.

Tod-Daniels I endorse your post, very good.

Bigtimeali go read the thread in Isaan forum on dowery

The fact that you are comparing the dowry in India to sin sot in Thailand shows just how ignorant you are and unqualified to give any advice or comment on the subject.

Strongly suggest you do some research before replying.

TH

[liberty]

How does a normal Thai person raise 100k+ for sinsod/dowry, please?

[haltes]

It all depends on the social class of the girl you are marrying, her education, on many factors.

Our sin sot was 500,000 baht but it was all returned to us as agreed after the wedding and it was negotiated by my Thai representative who met with my wife's parents to discuss it (our arrangements were quite formal and quite traditional). Anyway my wife is very comfortably middle class and having seen quite a few of her friends get married as well, the sin sots are all round about the same figure and are always returned to the couple after the wedding with quite often a gift or two from the relatives. It's all a bit of showing off IMHO anyway. just to show that you can take care of your new bride. It is not to enrich your parents in law at the expense of the newly married couple!

Edited May 28, 2008 by haltes

[jaiyenyen]

Hi bigtimeali,

I'm 50, my wife is 41, she was a widdow and both her parents are dead. The rest of the family are very poor.

As far as I am aware, I didn't have to pay sinsod, but I did, then got it back. The giving of sinsod in my case was part of the Thai Buddhist wedding ceremony. I gave 100,000 baht cash and 15,000 baht (weight) gold.

I was happy to go along with the sinsod idea because, like it or not, it is tradition here, and it seems to make people happy.

Your post above, for me, is right on the money. With your attitude i think you will enjoy a long and happy association with Thailand and it's people.

Good Luck to you both.

i am actually having a bit of difficulty believing this, do you know the weight of one baht of gold, never mind 15,000, are you sure you didnt mean to say 15 baht of gold which would work out to roughly 225 grammes or 15,000 thai baht worth of gold

Yes, you are quite right. I meant to say 15 baht of gold.

Better not let Mrs Jyy see this post or she will wonder where the rest of the gold is.

[coventry]

Just because it's tradition doesn't make it right. Correct me if I'm wrong but the dowery system is illegal now in India because of it being out-dated. The same should apply here as it's only kept alive by a few die hard Thais looking for a get rich quick scam. Enough said.

Tod-Daniels I endorse your post, very good.

Bigtimeali go read the thread in Isaan forum on dowery

The fact that you are comparing the dowry in India to sin sot in Thailand shows just how ignorant you are and unqualified to give any advice or comment on the subject.

Strongly suggest you do some research before replying.

TH

Where did I compare it to India? I just mentioned that India's dowery tradition is out dated and now illegal, so I believe. That was I assume, tradition. That is the only similarity I indicated.

[thaihome]

How does a normal Thai person raise 100k+ for sinsod/dowry, please?

Depends on how you define "normal" Thais. The "normal" Thais I work with would not have much problem raising 100k as they all make over that in a month.

I have gone to 3 of their weddings and all had a sin sot distributions of over 500.

At only one of them am I good enough friends to know the "deal" and that was the 750k was returned minus a “token” 100k that went to her grandmother.

TH

[Neeranam]

I gladly paid 1,000,000 baht to my wife's family of which 500,000 was returned. To put it in perspective, in the first 5 years of our marriage we've given her family a total of 15% of what we give just my mother back in the USA. The bottom line is it's a wonderful way to show respect for tradition and for one's elders and for Thai culture. I should add that my father-in-law invited 1,800 guests to our sit-down wedding party which he paid for entirely. It all comes down to what you can afford to pay and what your life circumstances are.

You could have got 10 of my wife for that!

Oh, I forgot, you know my wife - never mind.

[Neeranam]

So if you gf is not from Isaan, educated and from a decent family, 100k is not a big deal, as it maybe your share of wedding expenses.

I see hundreds of university educated girls from Isarn everday. It sounds like you've been brainwashed.

Come to think of it, I know more girls from decent families in Isarn than I ever did in Bangkok.

What exactly ar you trying to say 'Ajarn' .

Edited May 28, 2008 by Neeranam

[Nysan]

Hi

I don´t want to make a new thread., but I am in abit of a dilemma( read desperate need of help). I am together with a girl from a normal family; , mother high schoool teacher, dad a F16 flight instructor in Takli. We have been together for three years, she have made "a sidestep" at least one time. We want to get married. Last week her mom called and said that no sin sod were needed, but I had to come up with 300.000baht for the reception.The the style of the wedding will be in their garden with thaifood and rented tables ect. The wedding will last one day and have 100 guests. I am disturbed by several things:

1. 300.000 baht is more than +2000 baht/person after other expenses have been paid. You wouldn´t even have to have this amount in dear old Europe for a homemade garden wedding.

2. 100 guests! This seems to be a big show of mainly for her mom. Is a thai wedding just a show off for the parent to gain respect or is it a ceremony for me and my bride to be?

3. I only know a few people in Thailand, but why should the mom do all the invitations? There will mainly be guests that I (and my girlfriend) don´t know and not care about, and they certainly don´t care about me . It even would be more familiar if I would post a big sticky on thaivisa " everyone invited".

Any comment on my post will be most welcome since I need to know if my points are correct or not.

[way2muchcoffee]

1. 300.000 baht is more than +2000 baht/person after other expenses have been paid. You wouldn´t even have to have this amount in dear old Europe for a homemade garden wedding.

2. 100 guests! This seems to be a big show of mainly for her mom. Is a thai wedding just a show off for the parent to gain respect or is it a ceremony for me and my bride to be?

3. I only know a few people in Thailand, but why should the mom do all the invitations? There will mainly be guests that I (and my girlfriend) don´t know and not care about, and they certainly don´t care about me . It even would be more familiar if I would post a big sticky on thaivisa " everyone invited".

Any comment on my post will be most welcome since I need to know if my points are correct or not.

1) Are you sure you have your numbers correct? My wedding cost around 120k for around 50 people, set in a village. I imagine it could easily be much more in BKK. Additional expenses could include hotel rooms for guests, gifts for certain guests and family members, a band or dj, lighting equipment, delivery drivers, ice, etc etc. etc. Catering could be 800-1000 per person. What about alcohol expenses? Decent alcohol can be expensive.

2) Thai weddings tend to be big affairs (as are many back home). You are celebrating your entry into her family and vice versa. It isn't just about you and your bride. You would do well to remember this because it is likely to effect your lives together in countless ways in the future.

3) Mom can feel free to invite whoever she wants.

[saraburioz]

My wedding cost around 120k for around 50 people

You were ripped off mate.

[Briggsy]

I predict a thread of a minimum of 100 posts.

Up to 28 posts in one day. 100 posts, it's a banker.