Title Deed Skulldugerry !

[ThePinkPossy]

I have one property that the Chanote Deed is in my wifes name.

Several years ago at my request, I gave my lawyer the original title deed in my wife's name for safe keeping! He told me that the Land Registry responsible for this property have been notified by him to 'flag' their copy, & should anybody make any enquiries about the document then they should inform him. Basically, if my wife tries to tell, or bribe Land Registry for a copy of the original Title Deed to sell, or rent without me knowing. For what its worth, I also have 'power of attorney' on this property.

Basically, I'm looking for other opinions, or experiences of others who may have, or be in a simillar situation, and what is the likelyhood of my wife getting a copy (by whatever means) of this document and selling the property, which for the record is mine.

Edited May 28, 2008 by ThePinkPossy

[Khun Jean]

Maybe your lawyer can't resist to sell it and disappear.

[johnnyk]

Don't give your chanote to anyone! Keep it in a very safe place. Mine is in my desk drawer in Canada, far from Thailand schemers.

[MrIrrisistable]

So what ?? The land owner, who is thai, real owner or not, can go and make application for lost title deeds and get new ones issued.

[donx]

Basically, I'm looking for other opinions, or experiences of others who may have, or be in a simillar situation, and what is the likelyhood of my wife getting a copy (by whatever means) of this document and selling the property, which for the record is mine.

According to Thai law, the property isn't yours.

[GuestHouse]

Do you not trust your wife or is it that you just want to be certain that she gets the message that you do not trust her.... The rest of us certainly have.

[steveromagnino]

Do you not trust your wife or is it that you just want to be certain that she gets the message that you do not trust her.... The rest of us certainly have.

not allowing your wife to sell her own property....the foundation of which all good marriages are built aye guesthouse?

[tangoll]

The info I get squares with what MrIrrisistable said. I asked the condo management office what happens if I lose my chanote title deed. Their nonchalant response was, "No problem. You can get a new one, very easy."

So I guess the key for ownership proof is not the actual possession of the chanote, but the record that's kept in the Land Office.

[LivinLOS]

No but its much easier to use it to secure a (non bank) loan with the origional I would guess..

I also seem to recall a situation where a Thai had taken a bank loan, and the bank held the origional, and the Thai could not get the origional back from the bank to register a right of transit over the land to another plot with the land office.

[ThePinkPossy]

Basically, I'm looking for other opinions, or experiences of others who may have, or be in a simillar situation, and what is the likelyhood of my wife getting a copy (by whatever means) of this document and selling the property, which for the record is mine.

According to Thai law, the property isn't yours.

Please quote this law because as far as I'm aware I do own the property, my wife owns the land. And, I have 'power of attorney' on this property which legally (thai law) allows me to sell the property if I wish, I know this is fact because I almost sold using this document last year but I declined a 'last minute' reduced offer by the buyer when we went to exchange at Land Registry.

Edited May 29, 2008 by ThePinkPossy

[Khun Jean]

More reading required. A property on land you do not own is not worth anything without cooperation of the landowner. Or is the property on wheels so you can move it elsewhere?

And you say 'wife', which would mean that you are married. The property is probably build after marriage and therefore only 50% yours.

Going to the landoffice and almost sell something tells you what exactly?

I think the buyer realized something important at that moment and wanted to get out of the deal.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Khun Jean

[MrIrrisistable]

From what I understand and I could be wrong, sometimes am, but cannot remember last time........anyway, there is 2 original land title documents issued for a block of land, 1 is then held at the land office and cannot/should not be removed. The other original is given to the owner, then when a sale happens, the original title papers are updated with new details and the new owner gets the updated, but still original title paper.

This is how you end up with ratty old looking prehistoric land title deeds because they have been around for so long and changed hands so many times. We have currently a very old and tired title and asked about getting it replaced, they said no problem just go and report it lost and you will get a new one.

So for those hanging onto the deed and thinking they are safe....chuckle chuckle.

As for holding POA over land title, this means a foreigner controls the land and that in any way shape or form is not supposed to be kosha. Otherwise the holding of land by companies with foreign control would also be ok and not a sticky point lately.

Also the death of a partner and inheritance of land by a foreigner would not be forced to sell within 12 months.

Not doubting you have it, but wonder what would happen when it comes to the crunch of actually doing it yourself. As you said, you nearly got to the crunch, but not to the real final crunchy bit where all the good shit happens.

[ThePinkPossy]

Hi

Forgive me, I am now legal junkie but layman!

The two-part completed POA, inc signed copy Tabian Bahn, ID, and under witness was transferred to me by my wife.

I backed-out of the sale at the last minute because my Lawyer informed me that Land Registry officials had told the buyer when they went to exchange that the property was in foreign ownership, and they recommended he reduce the price considerably as the foreigner was looking for a quick sale.

They was right to inform the buyer that their was a POA, but very wrong to assume I was looking for a quick sale, hence !!!! All documents were clearly in view for inspection and the buyer fully aware of a POA attached to this particular Title Deed, no problems, their are many similar circumstances like this, many ................

[MrIrrisistable]

Sorry, maybe there is a mixup here.

By property do you mean the buildings etc on the land.

Or do you mean it all, the buildings and the dirt underneath them and within all the boundaries ?

If the first one then you are correct, if the second then I am not sure what to say, as you would be the first case I have ever heard of being a foreigner and being acknowledged by the land office as the owner, even though your name is not on the title as the legal land owner.

[roygsd]

I have one property that the Chanote Deed is in my wifes name.

Several years ago at my request, I gave my lawyer the original title deed in my wife's name for safe keeping! He told me that the Land Registry responsible for this property have been notified by him to 'flag' their copy, & should anybody make any enquiries about the document then they should inform him. Basically, if my wife tries to tell, or bribe Land Registry for a copy of the original Title Deed to sell, or rent without me knowing. For what its worth, I also have 'power of attorney' on this property.

Basically, I'm looking for other opinions, or experiences of others who may have, or be in a simillar situation, and what is the likelyhood of my wife getting a copy (by whatever means) of this document and selling the property, which for the record is mine.

Reply

Dont know what tune you are listening to , presumably the one you want to hear?

As you have taken several steps to obtain an early warning if you wife were to decide to sell HER PROPERTY, you are obviously knew full well the legal pitfalls of buying land in a wifes name.

The only record that matters isnt the one you want to listen to but the one at the Ampurs office which shows your wife is the legitimate owner of the property.

I expect that when you arranged ( on behalf of your wife) for the land to be purchased and registered in her sole name you

also signed a document which is on record at the Ampur's Office that states that you have no claim on that property, in my experience the Ampurs Office would not have allowed the land to be registered without you signing such a document.

There are almost daily warning on this site and other for farags not to invest more in Thailand than they are prepared to walk away from, you seem to have thought you were sharp enough to avoid those warnings, but Iam sure you know full well that you are simply wasting your time and effort on trying to change something you went into with open eyes.

My advice, which I suspect you will not take, is not to do further damage to yourself and accept that you have made a mistake, the sooner you accept that fact the sooner you will be able to move on from what I suspect is a very unpleasant situation at this point in your life.

Dont feel too sorry for yourself, we all make mistakes and I would not be too suprised if you had made a similar mistake with a woman in your home country then your finacial losses would have been much larger.

Sorry if the advice is not as sypathetic as you might want to hear but what what you want to hear is far removed from what you need to hear, tea and sympathy will only prolong the problem get on with it and get over it for your own sanity.

Roy gsd

[ThePinkPossy]

Sounds as if my Thai lawyer was wrong, perhaps things would have a different outlook if I paid more attention to Roy gsd & "the almost daily warnings on this site", remind me to seek professional guidance through you and the forum on all future legal matters !!! You don't look at Fox News by any chance ????

Hi Mrirrisistable I can confirm the POA was for property only, a two floor dwelling, and not land, and no company format, but a legally binding arrangement between my wife and I.

[donx]

Sounds as if my Thai lawyer was wrong, perhaps things would have a different outlook if I paid more attention to Roy gsd & "the almost daily warnings on this site", remind me to seek professional guidance through you and the forum on all future legal matters !!! You don't look at Fox News by any chance ????

Hi Mrirrisistable I can confirm the POA was for property only, a two floor dwelling, and not land, and no company format, but a legally binding arrangement between my wife and I.

I misunderstood your use of the term "property" which I took to refer to primarily a piece of land since you were referring to a title document.

Yes, you can own a building but you can't own the land the building is on. I have never heard of anyone else getting a Power of Attorney listed on either land or building, but I would assume that your wife can revoke this Power of Attorney authorization she gave you any time she wants. As I say, I've never heard of using a POA so I'll assume your lawyer knew what he/she was doing. Many others have registered either a usufruct or a lease on a land title which provides control over the use of the land. I'm sure you are aware of these vehicles for control of property as well. If not, you can read much about them on this forum.

So let me ask you this. Did you try to sell the building (a.k.a. the property) alone, the land alone or the building and the land together?

[thaigene2]

Basically, I'm looking for other opinions, or experiences of others who may have, or be in a simillar situation, and what is the likelyhood of my wife getting a copy (by whatever means) of this document and selling the property, which for the record is mine.

According to Thai law, the property isn't yours.

Yes, I don't get it either. She could also take a loan on the property any time she likes, right? And then she could dissappear. You'd be stuck with her debt mate! Power of Attorney or not (which doesn't sound right - do you mean a usufruct?)..

Isn't it the case that rich land owners who lease their land to others (residential, commercial whatever) can then routinely get loans agains the land? That's their leverage right? The worst that happens to the land "Owner" is they lose the title (forfeiture) - but a legal hubby would be stuck for paying off wifeys debts.

That such aa double-whammy - and another reason not to buy land in your wife's name. It's hers and only hers upon divorce/resale. But if she chooses to use it to rack up a bunch of debts (as collatoral), the husband is stuck for thsoe bills too! Brilliant in its twisted evilness..

[egg6447]

Do you not trust your wife or is it that you just want to be certain that she gets the message that you do not trust her.... The rest of us certainly have.

not allowing your wife to sell her own property....the foundation of which all good marriages are built aye guesthouse?

in thailand yes.

[egg6447]

Sounds as if my Thai lawyer was wrong, perhaps things would have a different outlook if I paid more attention to Roy gsd & "the almost daily warnings on this site", remind me to seek professional guidance through you and the forum on all future legal matters !!! You don't look at Fox News by any chance ????

Hi Mrirrisistable I can confirm the POA was for property only, a two floor dwelling, and not land, and no company format, but a legally binding arrangement between my wife and I.

well mr newbie, if you dont want advise why are you on tv asking for it. your lawyer maywell not be a lawyer. and just what have you got poa over. poa usualy allows you to act for a given legal transaction , as for house/property ownership. never heard of such a thing. you are grossly missinformed or missunderstood. as mentioned already leasehold or usafruct. the way i would never entertain is the company way. jusus christ and his 12 disiples can be rong but you cant. uuhhmmm