Condominium Act Amendments 2008

[ripley]

Quicksilva - You write reasonably but the topic is about an unreasonable situation. Have you ever tried to get official enforcement of a condo law matter? Forget about suing for a financial settlement - that is obviously not what jojothai's people are after. Usually the only recourse is to take the matter to court and that requires money for lawyers, court fees, documents, translations, etc. Daunting financially to those taking on the wayward management, but if insurance covers her the manager is not concerned about costs on her side of things. Therefore, if covered, she will be far less likely to capitulate. I'm saying that this is why understanding whatever insurance coverage exists and the terms of the policy is a matter of some import.

These people will almost certainly have to take the manager to court (if they can get documented proof of misdeeds). But money is the all-levelling factor, isn't it? Crusaders for owners' rights often are not willing to delve deeply into their pockets. Co-owners float in and out with little awareness or interest (which the corrupt depend upon). Cutting off funding at the source is one way to get the manager's attention - often times the only way.

I wonder whether it would be legal for the co-owners to pay their maintenance fees into a special bank account, to be withheld from the manager until certain matters are addressed satisfactorily. Now that would pinch. And it proves co-owners willingness to comply with the law.

[quiksilva]

So what to do? Even your good suggestion* would require payment to set it up.

If you can get a group together to fund these legal fees upfront, the fees can be divvied up between you all and perhaps even reclaimed later from the condo once the case is won.

*To tackle your solution I would use an escrow account, but the manager would have to agree to it. Even so I think we can confidently predict is not going to happen, at least not without a serious threat of legal action, which would still probably mean a letter from a lawyer representing the group for which fees would be payable. (and that might not be enough)

Even if you tried to do that without lawyers at the bare minimum escrow fees would be required to paid, but you'd be crazy to draft an escrow account agreement and/or get into a legal dispute in a foreign country without adequate legal representation.

Unfortunately in life there are no crusaders who will pick up the tab to fight for your rights, its sad, but there is no getting around the fact that money will have to be spent at some point.

I'm sorry to be so frank, but they may as well come to terms with the cold hard truth now if they want to move on.

Edited August 15, 2008 by quiksilva

[jojothai]

Hi and thanks for further comment. Any brainstorming ideas and comments are all useful to the decision process.

I have another query to add to the things discussed before. Who is it appoints the management company doing day to day management on behalf of CJPM, security company, auditor etc. It appears to be the CJPM and committee but I thought the law requires that it be approved by co-owners at a general meeting refer clauses 36 and 49(2) - previously 48(3).

ANY EXPERIENCE / COMMENT welcome please

Going back to previous discussions:

I totally agree that six months is not unreasonable. And I have opinion which says the six months could be from the time period before the meeting, it does not necessarily have to be from the date of the new law. So it is not clear cut and best close out the issue.

We are currently paying solicitors fees, etc from co-owners donations and paid attendance at the last two meetings. It is difficult to get a good group together and hold it, everyone gets disheartened with the situation. Few people have to carry out the workload and it is not easy to have the time.

We have discussed using an escrow account but that gets complicated as quiksilva noted. We have a short time now in which to start the real fight to change management. So we have to get on with it.

Quiksilva is right in his opinion we are not after previous money regarding management / developer potential misuse/misappropriation. We know perfectly well this is going to cost more than it is worth. What point is there spending several years or more trying to get it with no reason to believe we will be successful.

However we have an obligation to get the data relating to previous non-payment by co-owners and will have to pursue that. We cannot write off this matter, the people who have paid are justified to be furious with us if we do that.

The predicament the manager puts us in will almost certainly mean we have to go to court to get the data.

Whilst we want the management changed, we still have to recover the existing funds and recent maintenance payments so it is essential to have a handover from the existing manager. Whilst it appears the manager may not do so, we cannot discount the possibility that it could be made to happen. We don't need unnecessary battles.

Some people would like to just go for the kill but we have to be careful to be seen doing things legally, and in an appropriate manner. We have started to gain thai support, but now understand counter information is being circulated. We have to be careful we don't give ammunition to the opposition.

Quiksilva – you are quite right thanks, and we already facing the truth.

As I said before the point of action is close at hand. We in our group have to carefully think and check through our plans so we can succeed soon.

regards

jojothai

[ripley]

Just read thru the most recent translation of new Thai condo law. It's available on the Pattaya Expats Club site. Contributed by J. Fishback, and very readable.

Among other things, it mentions that if a juristic manager, committee,etc. does not comply with the law they may be reported directly to the police. Which addresses my question about pressures that can be brought to bear on the arrogant & dismissive such as the manager in jojothai's bldg.

[jojothai]

Just read thru the most recent translation of new Thai condo law. It's available on the Pattaya Expats Club site. Contributed by J. Fishback, and very readable.

Among other things, it mentions that if a juristic manager, committee,etc. does not comply with the law they may be reported directly to the police. Which addresses my question about pressures that can be brought to bear on the arrogant & dismissive such as the manager in jojothai's bldg.

Hi Ripley

I dont remember seeing that in his version and all our team got it a long time ago.

There are mechanisms/fines provided in the new law for dealing with non-compliance, eg it seems the Land Office will have a person / dept dealing with it.

Can you tell me which part you see it stated.

regards

jojothai

[ripley]

Sorry - my post was misleading. I was paraphrasing from Mr. Fishbacks COMMENTS on the new law. Still significant as he has put in an extraordinary amount of time and effort to clarify the meaning. The whole thing, his comments and the newest translation, are available on the pattaya expats club site, but here's the quote from Mr. Fishback:

"The new condominium act is a Law, and as such, violations of it are a criminal act, meaning that if a condo owner is unsatisfied with the conduct or operation of the condo and unable to get redress from the Juristic Manager or the condo owner committee, they can go to the police station and file a criminal complaint."

[jojothai]

Sorry - my post was misleading. I was paraphrasing from Mr. Fishbacks COMMENTS on the new law. Still significant as he has put in an extraordinary amount of time and effort to clarify the meaning. The whole thing, his comments and the newest translation, are available on the pattaya expats club site, but here's the quote from Mr. Fishback:

"The new condominium act is a Law, and as such, violations of it are a criminal act, meaning that if a condo owner is unsatisfied with the conduct or operation of the condo and unable to get redress from the Juristic Manager or the condo owner committee, they can go to the police station and file a criminal complaint."

Thanks Ripley.

We will have to consider this as another angle on things we are looking at doing.

Anybody out there tried it yet?

regards

jojothai

[quiksilva]

I suggest that the police will advise you to take it up as a civil complaint first.

[Wallerder]

Hi and thanks for further comment. Any brainstorming ideas and comments are all useful to the decision process.

I have another query to add to the things discussed before. Who is it appoints the management company doing day to day management on behalf of CJPM, security company, auditor etc. It appears to be the CJPM and committee but I thought the law requires that it be approved by co-owners at a general meeting refer clauses 36 and 49(2) - previously 48(3).

ANY EXPERIENCE / COMMENT welcome please

Hi jojothai, I am a co-owner of the Waterford Park Rama 4 condominium. A few years ago we embarked on a successful campaign to replace an illegitimate management system dominated by the project developer. We faced many of the problems you describe and learnt many lessons on the way. We are always pleased to share our experiences with others facing the same challenge. If you would be interested I could provide contact details (by whatever means the forum permits) with a view to arranging an information-exchange meeting for your team.

[ripley]

If you google: thai visa forum condo owners sue, you will pull up some of the the Waterford Park Rama 4 info - think it's titled "1,000 people protest..."

This was in 2006, as I understand it, so under the old law. Still I'd be willing to bet they're a goldmine of information!

[jojothai]

Hi jojothai, I am a co-owner of the Waterford Park Rama 4 condominium. A few years ago we embarked on a successful campaign to replace an illegitimate management system dominated by the project developer. We faced many of the problems you describe and learnt many lessons on the way. We are always pleased to share our experiences with others facing the same challenge. If you would be interested I could provide contact details (by whatever means the forum permits) with a view to arranging an information-exchange meeting for your team.

Good idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

I have sent you a PM (private message), have a look.

jojothai