A Story Of Naivity In Thailand

[gisele]

Well, I've been living in Thailand for almost 4 years, thought I was savvy enough about the culture, heck I teach a Cross-cultural communication course for heaven's sake, however, I was dupped, I was naive and I am paying the price.

As it turns out, my husband of more than 3 years, who seemed like a good man to everybody, whom my friends and colleagues thought was a great guy, managed to hide really well his true agenda.

Not long ago, I found out that my husband was having an affair with a farang woman in town. Awful enough in itself but sadly that was only the tip of the iceberg.

That fateful evening I confronted him, he had been drinking (something he never did with me as I don't drink but this other woman is quite fond of the spirited stuff so I saw a very unfamiliar side of him)

He thought it was pretty funny that I had the gall to confront him. His whole family supported me but to no avail, he even disrespected his mother in front of everyone present at the farm yelling at her that it was none of her business what he did. The children witness to this, were crying, as were other family members. Distressed I didn't know what to do next.

So I then called the other woman, she then proceeded to tell me I should listen to her side of the story as she claimed he told her we weren't married anymore, that she thought I was willingly taking care of his children, always staying at home while he went out cavorting. Unbeknownst to me I had become a nun. Mother Theresa of sorts I guess.

Once she found out he was married (and after I met her in person) she unequivocally promised she wouldn't see him again, at the time I believed this strumpet as I thought there are so few farang women around here that I could trust in a sisterhood.

I was devastated but I thought, alot of couples live through affairs and their marriage survives so what if I would be a statistic, I could get through this.

So the next day I learned that my husband and she were shacked up in some hotel, so much for her unequivocal promise never to see my husband again, so much for a sisterhood.

The next day, my husband calls me to ask that I call the other woman and tell her that I am "OK" for her to also "take care of him" as he put it,

Dumbfounded I asked for clarification: "do you actually mean that you want your wife to call your girlfriend and tell her it's ok with your wife for your girlfriend to have an affair with my husband?"

Yes, he said, that's what he wanted me to do

well needless to say, that certainly wasn't going to happen anytime during my lifetime in this universe.

Later that evening to my surprise I receive a text message from the strumpet:"is it really ok with you?"

Faster than a speeding bullet did I text message back that no where no how in this universe would this arrangement ever be ok with me or the children. At this point, it seemed to me that she believes pretty much anything coming out of his mouth.

Strangely, my husband was upset at my response to her, he immediately called to tell me to be nice to her and keep quiet. Later, he said, everybody would be happy, that he is studying her, that I needed to give him more time.

(what that means still eludes me though true or not, some mention of she professing of wanting a baby at all cost has been mentionned)

Oddly, the other woman then texted me asking if could I please tell her the truth, (well I thought: yeah I can but it apparently goes on deft ears so why bother asking me)

and that she doesn't want to hurt me and that she would never see him again.

When had I heard that before?

So many truths to shed light on, I decide to inform her that the story of my husband's first wife's death was greatly exagerated, in fact she neither was dead or living in Bangkok but indeed living in a tambon near Nakhon, this of course came as a great surprise. furthermore, I told her that I am in fact broke due to his agressive demands for money, and, oh yeah, if I am indeed a nun as she believes then nuns do have sex.

Again she says she won't see him again, (hadn't I heard that before?)

but my husband went to see her weaving great lies, and again she shacks up with him.

Adding insult to injury, with more money I borrowed which was earmarked for improving the farm, he instead had been dining and wining her and buying her stuff, even flying her for a lovely weekend in Bangkok. Meanwhile, I had to borrow money to pay for his son's tuition (which he still hasn't repaid). This past year, I often didn't even have money to buy food for the children and myself. Because he said we should transfer my paycheck to his account so the bank would see he had regular income in order to borrow to build our house, I was naive enough to believe him. However the money went elsewhere.

Now that the word is out that I know about his affair, people are willing to part with secrets of what he has been doing all along like gambling extensively, and living it up like a big shot, etc...

all in all, I owe close to 1 million baht on my credit cards (his promises that we would pay it off soon which urged me to unwisely borrow on the cards and also because he stole the card after he discovered my password and maxed it up) and about 2 million in lost savings and money I owe some of which I borrowed from family and friends, all because I believe he was working the farm. Of course, there is an actual farm so it was credible enough for me to keep giving in to him, partly because he is so convincing, he is persistant and doesn't take no for an answer. But especially because he is my husband whom I loved and I wanted to believe him.

Now My daughter (his daughter, no matter that I have her care giver and love her to death, I will lose her too) will have to be removed from the English programme as he prefers spending money on his strumpet rather than on his family.

I can hear all your comments:

how could you have been so gullible? You should have known better? Why are you airing your dirty laundry in public

I guess I should have but I didn't see it coming.

He is my husband and I thought sometimes marriages go though financial times so I believed I was investing in my/our future

Each day I worked, then went home took care of the kids and life and if I had talked about this to people in the community then the outcome would have been different, people would have known another side to his story. so now, I want my side known.

So essentially, I am writing this post as therapy for me and also so that others might not suffer the same fate as I.

[pumpuiman]

screw him.

take care of your kids and move on.

Don't forget 50% of all assets acquired after marriage are yours.

It's a big world full of opportunity.

Good luck

[TheWalkingMan]

gisele,

pumpuiman said it best.

Selfishness knows no bounds.

Good luck and I hope everything works out for you,

TheWalkingMan

[Samuian]

I am male similar stuff happened to me, very sorry for what and how it happened, but guess anyone will have to come to terms with this, after all it's Life live, never be sure that it won't happen again!

Edited June 16, 2008 by Samuian

[dotcom]

A word of advice you probably don't want to hear. Stop borrowing money.

Stop having your pay check deposited into his bank account. Look to sell the farm to settle the debts. Dump this loser post haste.

I am sorry to hear what has happened to you.

[Insight]

Another tragic story. Sometimes you have to wonder if the levels of deception by some* people here have any bounds?

Pretty much agree with everybody else gisele - crowbar yourself out of there with whatever you can. Worry about entitlement and implications later. Sounds fairly clear that running back to him with open arms is not a concern

* Some - a very loose definition of the word.

[Boo]

wow, gisele I am so so sorry. I don't have much to say except, get yourself out of there. I know you are invested there emotionally with your daughter but all the while you stay, waiting for him to get his act together, he will beleive he is getting away with it. Cut off the money supply & see how long his strumpet lasts when she is having to pay for the lot.

I absolutely cannot beleive the nerve of this women though, what a bitch. I would also stop responding to any texts she sends, maybe just send one final one telling her that she can have him & the debt too that he has run up as a result of their affair & his gambling debts, see how keen she is then.

[bratpack]

Realy sorry to hear your plight.My only answer will be to dump him,get yourself a bank account and have your salary paid into that.Get a solicitor to arrange for a 50/50 share of property and 50/50 for debts also.You allowed this to happen though,albeit for love,but we hear so many stories of farang,male or female being ripped off in thailand i always think how this could happen.A lion does NOT change his spots so get out quick.Lucky you get on well with the family because you mayt have been thrown out.

ANYWAY GOOD LUCK AND HOPE EVERYTHING GOES WELL FOR YOU.

[girlx]

I can hear all your comments:

how could you have been so gullible? You should have known better? Why are you airing your dirty laundry in public

i doubt any of us here really think any of those things. i am sorry as well. if it makes you feel any better i think deception of this sort is almost commonplace in thailand.

i hope the other farang girl reads this board- what a completely ignorant slut you are honey! if you find out a man is married with kids, you have NO EXCUSE whatsoever for sticking around. (we had a thread on here once on farang women like this- it mystifies me that people can be like this)... but boo is right gisele, if she really wants him, let her have him... he doesn't sound like much of a prize.

i think you and your kids should disappear quickly. and no more money to him.

Edited June 16, 2008 by girlx

[Andiamo]

:angry:I am so, so sorry to read your post Gisele. Sending you a big hug and you should definitely feel free to unload here. Most people don't judge IME, but will try to offer concrete advice and sympathy. Both of which you may need or use us as a sounding board.

And no, I agree with girlx, we don't think you are gullible at all. Why should we....? He is the one who is the biggest shit on the planet! Plus the trollop who is having it off with him. Seriously, we all know that decent people do not get involved with married men/women. That is is like Relationships 101. She, he and their behaviour and complete disrespect to your marriage has destroyed it and your family.

The things we put up with when we are in love.... In any relationship - especially when you are married or in a committed relationship - I think most women want to believe that the man will change. I can totally hear you when you say that you thought you and he could get over it and put it behind you - although I am sure it hurt you like hel_l and felt like your heart had been torn out during all this. Although I think you can only put something like this behind you if he did genuinely feel remorse. From your post, it appears he does/did not.

And to leave you to run up all those debts? What a total sh*t! You really do need to try and move on for YOURSELF and YOUR LIFE. See a good family lawyer and ascertain your rights. It's unclear from your email if the children are yours or his from his first marriage? Regardless, I am sure the lawyer will advise re: custody and maintenance etc.

Wishing you the very best of luck with everything. Chin up girl, you can do it and get through this... you will. You sound like a strong woman (especially to bare all on a forum) and you will need your strength. Take a step back from it all now and try and focus on finding out your rights and a plan of action. It may help to have a focus.

I hope you have a good support network there in NST - if not, use the Ladies Forum as an outlet. We are here for you.

Take care & Be strong. Life has a funny way of working out when we least expect it to.

Andiamo

Edited June 16, 2008 by Andiamo

[sbk]

The children are, unfortunately, his from a previous marriage.

This is terrible and sad as those poor kids will be stuck with two very selfish people instead. A similar situation happened to a friend of mine whose husband hooked up with another farang girl -- same story he lied said that she was just sticking around for the kids blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. Seems that some women are so stupid and so blind as to believe what they want to believe rather than what is right before their eyes. She, at least, cannot say she has been deceived as gisele has already made the situation very clear to her.

I don't know of any good lawyers in Nakhon but that is the route I would take, talk to his family since it sounds as if they are just as upset as you are.

I wish there was something I could do to help, other than offer the support you already know you have.

[gisele]

thank you all for your support and your comments

it's a roller coaster ride right now

I fell in love with Thailand along time ago, and I will be very sad to leave if I have to.

My daughter (his daughter really) is smart and knows the end is near, so she seems distant now which is breaking my heart.

He has increasingly become unbalanced since hooking up with this woman, (she from all reports, was always unbalanced) so now the children are afraid of him and don't trust him, however he is their father so they must suffer his whims and temper as must his mother and family.

thank you again fro your comments,

I don't feel invisible so much now

[donna]

such a sad story and unfortunately one that will repeat itself over and over (and not only with thai men).

he has lost so much more than she has gained. you have a wonderful daughter and a lot of love to give to someone who deserves it.

hang in there gisele. get on to a good lawyer, as sbk says, with the family's help and take the prick to the cleaners. steer clear of this woman and her sms's, in fact you could consider changing your mobile number so that you cant receive any at all which will make this easier for you in many ways.

it may be worth 'running away' for a few days just to get away from the situation. take your daughter to the beach, or to the jungle, and have some down time. take stock of what you have rather than what you dont have and remember to smile every day.

we are all with you gisele. youre not alone in this.

[eek]

Thank you for sharing your story. I hope you have good support from friends and family. I just want to wish you all the best in this as your story really moved me. Good luck and be strong.

And, whilst reading it, i did not think that you had been gullible, it could happen to any of us.

[sannebkk]

Dear Gisele,

How lost you must feel, i agree with the advise of everyone here. get yourselve out of there, even temporarily.

As I think he still has some influence on your decision making, get a good lawyer who will stand by you on your side.

It touches my heart to hear your story, you could not have seen it and it is not your fault, but i can understand your feelings of desperation. Indeed you are at the right place for emotional support here!

i hope you keep us informed, when you need more help in any kind then emotional support you should let us know, don't hesitate

chok dee xx

[Lite Beer]

And, whilst reading it, i did not think that you had been gullible, it could happen to any of us.

Not gullible at all. Just unlucky to have fallen for a total ******. I agree have nothing to do with that woman.

Good Luck.

[RueFang]

I'm so sorry to hear your story Gisele..as people have said before, you couldn't have known, and even if there were clues in hindsight, you can't blame yourself for loving your husband so much as to never consider he could be such an a..shole to do that to you and his kids. It's such a tragedy for you and the kids..I hope you have strong support with yours and his family to get through this. Maybe a few years down the line when you are on top of the world and he is completely fcked, you'll see why everything happened this way...silver lining and all that. Take care and good luck.

[Goinghomesoon]

Oh Gisele I am so sorry to read about your situation. Your husband's poor choices are sooo not about you and you did nothing to deserve this treatment. Do you have friends nearby who can support you through this? Please take care of yourself.

[IMA_FARANG]

Well, I've been living in Thailand for almost 4 years, thought I was savvy enough about the culture, heck I teach a Cross-cultural communication course for heaven's sake, however, I was dupped, I was naive and I am paying the price.

As it turns out, my husband of more than 3 years, who seemed like a good man to everybody, whom my friends and colleagues thought was a great guy, managed to hide really well his true agenda.

Not long ago, I found out that my husband was having an affair with a farang woman in town. Awful enough in itself but sadly that was only the tip of the iceberg.

That fateful evening I confronted him, he had been drinking (something he never did with me as I don't drink but this other woman is quite fond of the spirited stuff so I saw a very unfamiliar side of him)

He thought it was pretty funny that I had the gall to confront him. His whole family supported me but to no avail, he even disrespected his mother in front of everyone present at the farm yelling at her that it was none of her business what he did. The children witness to this, were crying, as were other family members. Distressed I didn't know what to do next.

So I then called the other woman, she then proceeded to tell me I should listen to her side of the story as she claimed he told her we weren't married anymore, that she thought I was willingly taking care of his children, always staying at home while he went out cavorting. Unbeknownst to me I had become a nun. Mother Theresa of sorts I guess.

Once she found out he was married (and after I met her in person) she unequivocally promised she wouldn't see him again, at the time I believed this strumpet as I thought there are so few farang women around here that I could trust in a sisterhood.

I was devastated but I thought, alot of couples live through affairs and their marriage survives so what if I would be a statistic, I could get through this.

So the next day I learned that my husband and she were shacked up in some hotel, so much for her unequivocal promise never to see my husband again, so much for a sisterhood.

The next day, my husband calls me to ask that I call the other woman and tell her that I am "OK" for her to also "take care of him" as he put it,

Dumbfounded I asked for clarification: "do you actually mean that you want your wife to call your girlfriend and tell her it's ok with your wife for your girlfriend to have an affair with my husband?"

Yes, he said, that's what he wanted me to do

well needless to say, that certainly wasn't going to happen anytime during my lifetime in this universe.

Later that evening to my surprise I receive a text message from the strumpet:"is it really ok with you?"

Faster than a speeding bullet did I text message back that no where no how in this universe would this arrangement ever be ok with me or the children. At this point, it seemed to me that she believes pretty much anything coming out of his mouth.

Strangely, my husband was upset at my response to her, he immediately called to tell me to be nice to her and keep quiet. Later, he said, everybody would be happy, that he is studying her, that I needed to give him more time.

(what that means still eludes me though true or not, some mention of she professing of wanting a baby at all cost has been mentionned)

Oddly, the other woman then texted me asking if could I please tell her the truth, (well I thought: yeah I can but it apparently goes on deft ears so why bother asking me)

and that she doesn't want to hurt me and that she would never see him again.

When had I heard that before?

So many truths to shed light on, I decide to inform her that the story of my husband's first wife's death was greatly exagerated, in fact she neither was dead or living in Bangkok but indeed living in a tambon near Nakhon, this of course came as a great surprise. furthermore, I told her that I am in fact broke due to his agressive demands for money, and, oh yeah, if I am indeed a nun as she believes then nuns do have sex.

Again she says she won't see him again, (hadn't I heard that before?)

but my husband went to see her weaving great lies, and again she shacks up with him.

Adding insult to injury, with more money I borrowed which was earmarked for improving the farm, he instead had been dining and wining her and buying her stuff, even flying her for a lovely weekend in Bangkok. Meanwhile, I had to borrow money to pay for his son's tuition (which he still hasn't repaid). This past year, I often didn't even have money to buy food for the children and myself. Because he said we should transfer my paycheck to his account so the bank would see he had regular income in order to borrow to build our house, I was naive enough to believe him. However the money went elsewhere.

Now that the word is out that I know about his affair, people are willing to part with secrets of what he has been doing all along like gambling extensively, and living it up like a big shot, etc...

all in all, I owe close to 1 million baht on my credit cards (his promises that we would pay it off soon which urged me to unwisely borrow on the cards and also because he stole the card after he discovered my password and maxed it up) and about 2 million in lost savings and money I owe some of which I borrowed from family and friends, all because I believe he was working the farm. Of course, there is an actual farm so it was credible enough for me to keep giving in to him, partly because he is so convincing, he is persistant and doesn't take no for an answer. But especially because he is my husband whom I loved and I wanted to believe him.

Now My daughter (his daughter, no matter that I have her care giver and love her to death, I will lose her too) will have to be removed from the English programme as he prefers spending money on his strumpet rather than on his family.

I can hear all your comments:

how could you have been so gullible? You should have known better? Why are you airing your dirty laundry in public

I guess I should have but I didn't see it coming.

He is my husband and I thought sometimes marriages go though financial times so I believed I was investing in my/our future

Each day I worked, then went home took care of the kids and life and if I had talked about this to people in the community then the outcome would have been different, people would have known another side to his story. so now, I want my side known.

So essentially, I am writing this post as therapy for me and also so that others might not suffer the same fate as I.

Hope you don't mind some advice from a male.

First of all, you need to be clear on what is yours and what is joint.

Whatever is yours, anything that you can get control of, do it now.

Close your bank account. Open another in your name only. Do the same with your credit card. Make them 100% yours, so he has no access to them.

If I was a vindictive person, I would somehow let his girlfriend know that he no longer has access to your money. Might change her relationship with him, don't you know?

Secondly, and very important, do not agree to a "settlement" with him that includes divorce unless you are absolutely sure what you are giving up and gaining in a divorce settlement. Don't sign ANYTHING in Thai unless you have someone you trust completely translate the Thai first. There is such a thing as an "uncontested" divorce in Thailand, but usually the wife is required to sign an agreement that she agrees with any property setlement prior to this "uncontested" divorce. I would guess you wouldn't want that, would you? Probably you need a lawyer for any divorce, just to protect your rights.

And, I don't mean to be cruel here, but you must realise that the "Mia Noi", or minor wife tradition is still very much alive in Thailand. Your hubby and you may have different perspectives on that point. Cultural traditions vary. I'm not making excuses, I'm just saying.

Edited June 17, 2008 by IMA_FARANG

[Patsycat]

I am with everybody here - your life is so much more good than that of the "girlfriend". and he is not worth it. I feel for you, I have been through almost the same thing here in Europe and i know it is not nice. STRENGTH GIRL

[mssabai]

You are not gullible. You have been good hearted and decent and he has taken advantage of that. I know you feel responsible for his family, but really there is nothing you can do - you must look after you now. If you are not in the picture, he may well step up and take responsibility. As it is he knows you are there picking up the pieces of his financial mess whilst he is off living the good life.

I really wish you the best of luck and I hope that you have people around who can look after you while you recover from the shock of it all.

chock dee na ka

[desi]

You've already received excellent advice so I won't add.

Reading through this all, I can only imagine how heartbroken you are right now.

But I also can't help but to think how RELIEVED you are going to be when you look back on all of this in awhile.

(note: I do realise how awful it will be for his children, the children you love. But that cannot be helped. Life, yes?)

But luckily, you got out of it with only a little over three years of your life wasted, not twenty three.

And while you may not think that's much of a consolation right now, you will when you are a seasoned lass. When you've had years of watching friends (guys and gals) put their lives into one person only to have the same and worse happen.

I have three friends in Thailand in similar situations, one with 30 years of emotional investment just gone. Poof. And I'm here for her whenever. Like we are here for you.

Take care and HUGS to you.

(go ahead and drop me a line if you want to chat, bitch, rant or rave)

[barky]

I'm with the others . Get out quick and take him to the cleaners. But a cautionary note, while tanning his hide, are you safe from him doing something stupid? If not think seriously of protecting yourself during and after putting him through the wringger.

[annetta]

Ciao Gisele,

think only to yourself now, cut him every money source and he will be lost....shame for the kids but he deserve the worst.

I have been reading your posts through these couple of years because many of my friends come from NST, so now I feel you like an old friend of mine...I wish you all the best and remember we are all here for you!!

A huge hug

Annetta

[Sheryl]

SO sorry to hear all this Gisele. My heart goes out to you.

Agree with other's advice -- get a lawyer ASAP and meanwehile nail down every asset you can so that he can't touch it. And once you have the lawyetr, try to get the farm and whatever else you can.

The only place where I differ from the response of the others is that I'm a bit less harsh towards the other woman. She may well have been decieved by him just as you were...and for sure she's going to suffer plenty ion the future for staying involved with him. Let's keep the anger focused squarely where it belongs: on HIM.

So sad about the kids. I don't know their ages but hope there is some way you can stay in touch with them. Somehow I have the feeling that with you out of the picture they'll wind up with his family so maybe that will provide an avenue for you to keep in touch with them.

We're all here for you, Gisele, any time you need us. As hard as this is, you'll get through it. Hang in there

[Lite Beer]

The only place where I differ from the response of the others is that I'm a bit less harsh towards the other woman.

No sympathy for her.

Think of no.1 You.

In a couple of years when it is all sorted out and you have a new life you will be thinking what a lucky girl you are to be rid of him.

[Amyji]

This whole story makes me feel so sick. Giselle, I am so sorry for you and what this man has put you through. It is as if he has no feelings left for you at all to be able to treat you this way. We're behind you in this difficult time and you need as much strength as possible to go through some rough decisions that are emotionally gut wrenching. Now's the time to don your heart armor!

An earlier post said to be less harsh on the other woman. My opinion is that Giselle handled it just fine - the first meeting with the other woman should be compassionate because she could have been in the dark that the man she was dating was married. The point where no more compassion was warranted was when the woman proceeded with the relationship in full knowledge that this man was married and it was NOT OK with his wife. At that point the gauntlet had been thrown down.

Personally, if I was still single, I would never date a man until divorce papers were signed.

[webtv]

Firstly Im sorry for your grief... Its a horrible situation and I know personally how hard it is to leave when there are other peoples kids involved.

I would suggest though, if he is now drinking and becoming unstable, to leave before it comes to that horrible conclusion we read about to often in Thailand and other countries.. An unstable man and drunk and confused = trouble imo.

Leave now, it will be painful, but if it escalates and he loses anymore face to his family and friends, he might go that extra mile and do something "drastic".

He is now in a corner and you know what can happen when someone is surrounded..

Get out and Get out quick would be my advice.. If you still want to reconcile, you can do that from afar and out of "his" surroundings.

better to be safe first and although you have lot invested in money and feelings for everyone concerned, YOUR life is more important.

Best of Luck to you!

[Nampeung]

Gisele, I feel so much for you and would love to be near to give you a hug and have a chat. It's nothing to do with him being Thai, it's just a certain type of man unfortunately. Some cultural aspects may come into it but mostly I'd say it's just a man... can't keep it in their trousers!

If there's cash involved it's obviously harder and I don't know what to say except that if a man, especially a Thai man, is dependent on you for money there will always be trouble.

Hard as it is, I advise leaving him and moving to new pastures. Take some time out by yourself... it may take a year or so to get over but you have to accept that if someone will shit on you like this... they are not worth it.

I am still in touch with my ex but I - after two years - have got over the break and am now enjoying my life and still being friends with the ex on the phone. But I will never take violence again ... he was always faithful but violence was his let down.

Gisele, please get away from the situation, hard as it is, and allow yourself time - maybe years - to recover

[thaibkk]

my wife just tells me that most thai men are like this and that is why she married a farang

but is a see farang in their own country, they just do the same but in more secret way

that also why so many end up in divorce

men thinking with their d_i_c_k and not their brain

but if you see the kind of farang comming for a holliday with their friends to enjoy the local women here...

strangly ... most farang i come across are mostly russian ... men or women ...

rusky rusky ... in bangkok and especially in pattaya