A Story Of Naivity In Thailand

[kat]

That's a great invitation, SBK. Heck, even I am tempted to flee to your place. I think you should take her up on it, gisele.

Are there any other ladies nearby that may be able to visit or distract gisele, if she wants?

I'm sorry if this is intrusive, but I think it would be good, gisele, if you had some moral support around.

[Nampeung]

I agree Gisele, maybe go to SBK for a week or two and take stock, please take care of yourself

[girlx]

if you are in BKK you are welcome to hit me up as well gisele...

[mssabai]

That's a great invitation, SBK. Heck, even I am tempted to flee to your place. I think you should take her up on it, gisele.

Are there any other ladies nearby that may be able to visit or distract gisele, if she wants?

I'm sorry if this is intrusive, but I think it would be good, gisele, if you had some moral support around.

If you come to Phangan to stay with sbk Gisele do let me know...distraction is a forte of mine! And there is a couple of decent spas here

[gisele]

thank you all so much for your words.

it's been a rough day

yesterday he told my (his) daughter it was her fault I was leaving, I don't think she believes him but it still broke my heart, just writing this makes me cry, so I haven't slept much,

he's been texting all day, he started at 5am, making all sorts of promises: "come back I will change if you make me strong, we can be happy again, I love you, etc..."

I know if I were to stay I would go back to him, he knows how to push my buttons.

I am exhausted.

[Patsycat]

If you can - go to SBK she seems like someone we would all like to run to if we had major problems, wish i could but i'm too far away!!

I have tears in my eyes everytime i read this thread. And believe me, we have all gone through this type of crap some time in our lives. I was one of the ones who forgave but never forgot and it grew like a tumour inside me for a long time until i suddenly thought - Shise, why should he get away with what he has done and got out pronto. So please, don't let him charm himself back into your heart because in the end it will eat you up.

Thinking of you...

Stay strong and beautiful.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Patsycat

[desi]

thank you all so much for your words.

it's been a rough day

yesterday he told my (his) daughter it was her fault I was leaving, I don't think she believes him but it still broke my heart, just writing this makes me cry, so I haven't slept much,

he's been texting all day, he started at 5am, making all sorts of promises: "come back I will change if you make me strong, we can be happy again, I love you, etc..."

I know if I were to stay I would go back to him, he knows how to push my buttons.

I am exhausted.

Sweetie, it's in your power to stop at least a part of this pain. Just block him from your phone.

If not, just throw your sim card away (after getting all your good numbers) and get a new one for the time you have left.

There is no reason to go through the constant torment.

[DaoDao]

Hey Gisele,

Allready sended you some messages, Kat's right, dont be alone when it hurts the most, if u see a chance to get away [to SBK] or one of the ladies do so, good to be away and might give you some other perspectives aswell.

I'm very sorry for not being around, all the FIL and my husband are in Tha sala at the moment, again if there's anything they could help u with let me know!!

My thoughts are with u...

Edited July 2, 2008 by DaoDao

[joskydive]

Gisele,

I've had to think long and hard about replying to your situation as it smacks very close to home for me, only in my situation I let it go on for 24years. Believe me, when you let it go and forgive and forget it only gets worse for you and easier for them to do it again and again.

Don't let this happen to you, you are worth far more than this!

I agree with most of what each and everyone has stated on this thread and the female is also just as bad as your husband because she is now fully aware of how things are. Unfortunately, there are certain women who play this situation just to see if they can take your man from you. It's a competition for them and destruction for you.

I have no pity for either of them. They are not worth the effort.

Should this female contact you again, I would give one last reply to her and Thank her for taking on your second hand, expensive, used bike as you have no further use for him. You might also remind her that there will be no further monetary donations from you, not him, towards her lifestyle as she has already recieved the total amount with tips included.

This then is a two fold reward for you:

1. You have got rid of someone who really is very selfish and selfcentred with no principals, even though I know you still care very much about him.

2. The competition for her is over and I doubt if she'll stick around for very long after. Least of all if he has no money.

I would however, do this after you have sorted yourself out and got to somewhere where you feel safe. Don't stay there!!! Your body is already telling you that you are not safe, listen to it. Also, I would say that you are probably not sleeping well and that in itself can be destructive and make you think all sorts of things. You know the old saying of 'There's nothing worse than a woman scorned' well, it's just the same with a man and he thinks you have made him lose face, so, take care of your security first and foremost. I would also point out that you should do this asap.

I'm not sure if there are any firms who can take your furniture for lockup but I wouldn't sell it off just to satisfy his greed for money.

Although I don't know you, my very best wishes to you with lots of luck. This is a hard time I know but with each day that passes life will get better and when you get weak in the afternoons and night-time, just remind yourself, she has only got your leftovers. You had the caviar, she has the bones, that's all.

It took me three years to sort myself out and I have to say that even though I gave up my career and half my life for my husband to raise his two children from a previous marriage and one of our own aswell, I am now having the time of my life. I can do what I want, whenever I want and am not accountable to anyone. I have a partner here in Thailand who realises there isn't a cat in h$lls chance that I will marry him any time soon and accepts that fact.

There is life after divorce. By the way, if you need any legal advise or a place to stay, you are welcome here anytime night or day. This is Pattaya, he isn't going to look for you here and I have 7 Lawyers who freelance for my company, 1 lives with me and I have 15 dogs, so don't worry about security or legal problems.

[awakened]

Hi Gisele

Having divorced a wife that ran up huge credit card debts (shopping addiction) mostly AFTER we had seperated, I have some sympathy with you. Irrespective of the rights or wrongs, the debts came out of joint assets. I would agree that you must protect whatever remaining assets you have and find out your legal position sooner rather than later. With one eye on the fact that corruption and bias towards Thai nationals can influence judgements and the legal process will drain what little resources you have left.

While my heart goes out to you. I'm realistic enough to know the campaign to win you back may succeed. Our hearts do not always follow our heads. As you say, he knows which buttons to press and you are vulnerable. He may even believe in his feelings. 'Flings' can be delicious when they remain secret trysts but when the stability you provide, which allows him to stray, is whipped out from under him, a desperate panic can result. You may feel that relenting is so much easier than blowing years of investment, for an unknown future.

You may also want to consider whether his contriteness will just lead to another round of raiding your purse. A strong possibility if 'debtors prison' looms for him. Do they have such a thing in Thailand?

My Thai neighbour has a 'Gik'?, everyone knows it, including his wife who ensures his 'allowance' isn't sufficient to waste on jewellery or other trinkets. This is probably an exception since there seems no end to the tide of young Thai mothers who are working and leaving their offspring with their families due to irresponsible Thai men. The women seem to be out of the door with barely any discussion.

Have you considered that if he were to go to the police and invent a cock and bull story he could make your difficulties a lot worse? What if he were to call a creditor and say you had promised to pay the debt but he thinks you are going to skip the country. Would he go that far? How would the credit card company respond? There may be nothing to it but stories like this are sobering... http://spirit6x8.blogspot.com/2008/03/sani...angkokpost.html

I note joskydive just posted. Might be a great contact.

Why is it that we have all this legal stuff to cope with when we are already beaten down? It's a bugger.

Whichever way it goes, I hope the outcome brings you peace. There is life after divorce.

[RueFang]

My heart goes out to you Giselle...it's a horror story that no one should have to go through. Is there a specific reason why you can't change your phone number? It seems like self torture to be constantly receiving his text messages. Maybe it may make you feel temporarily better getting his messages of love and apology, but he doesn't deserve you. He will do and say anything to win you back but you know in your heart that if you do, you'll always be questioning his motives about every action and his whereabouts whenever he's not at home. The trust is gone forever, no matter what happens. Just trust yourself above all else. And change your phone number!

[Nampeung]

It's soooo hard though, to change your phone number even though you know it's the right thing to do... It's sooooo hard because we loved that person and in a way we don't want to let go.

I don't know what to say Gisele except that we are all here for you to talk to x

[gisele]

As Nampeung mentions re: changing my number

It's torture alot of the time but getting better as it is becoming therapy as I see how he is showing his true colours.

So many things I think about right now, selling my stuff, searching the net for a new home, finding quotations for moving the rest of my stuff, I worry about deciding what to do with my cat? (4 months quarantine in HK, I can't subject him to that as he is an indoor cat, never been outside, he won't survive out there) still teaching, remembering to eat, packing,

I don't know why, makes no sense I guess, but changing this number I've had for 6 years makes me sad.

[mssabai]

I love your quote Gisele at the bottom of your posts- I can't remember if you had the same one before or not but it seems especially apt for you now. Also the over quoted but very true "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is a good one to think about when times are looking a bit bleak. Or just go with my mum's advice when I have a break up "it's hard to lose a lover when your heart is full of hope, but it's worse to lose a towel when your eyes are full of soap!"

But seriously who knows what this next chapter holds for you...you may well be thanking him further down the line for pushing you into a new and better life.

Good luck with everything x

[mekongmiss]

Dear Gisele

This is the first time I have posted and just want to say sorry for the pain you are going through. I have not seen any posts from you for a few days and hope you are OK and getting the suport you deserve.

I have been looking at the forum for a while to get some insights on dealing with Thai men and I would like to share my story - I was involved with a Thai man for a few months who constantly lied to me and messed with my mind. Yes, I note that one should not get involved with married men but he told me he was divorced from the Thai wife (he isn't as she hasn't signed off on the assets) and he is also married to a woman who is a lot younger than him in Laos - he told me he did it to look after her and it was a village thing not a real marriage! I can hear everyone now yelling idiot! and yes I am as well as stupid and very foolish, and as we know love is blind. But it gets more bizarre - I actually went with him to Laos and was witness to him and his wife spending a lot of time in the bedroom trying to make the baby she wanted and which he was happy to oblige. Actually I think she is already pregnant from her physical appearance and eating all the time. His Thai wife does not know about this. Oh, and he also has a girlfriend in BKK and has a number of young women ringing up frequently. Like many men here he drinks a lot and when he does he becomes manipulative and nasty, he also spoke of marriage and coming to my home country with me, he also mentioned money and that I could help him, support his daughter etc.. after one particularly nasty experience I told him no more and goodbye and have not heard anything since apart from wishing me a happy birthday liked nothing happened. But I am still angry and would love to tip the bucket on him. But then I should be thankful that I did not become a minor wife and finance his family members including the extended family in Laos. From this brief experience I have resolved to never enter into a relationship with a Thai man again and return to my celibate ways.

MM

[girlx]

yikes.

i have made the same resolution, just not worth it to me. but i don't think they are all bad. i do know of one lady who has been married 13 years to her thai hubby and he seems to be good. only one though out of many stories i have seen here.

PS i have to remind myself it happens with farang men too- have you heard about christie brinkley's husband cheating on her with 35 women? and she is a supermodel! i guess it is just a MAN thing, not necessarily a thai man thing. i still think these stories are more common in thailand though.

Edited July 9, 2008 by girlx

[Nampeung]

Unfortunately centuries of male domination have led to this behaviour being commonplace in Thailand, Asia, Africa, South America, Polynesia... etc etc etc. Hopefully in the future the women of these countries will stand up for their rights and show the men that they deserve equal treatment

[gisele]

Unfortunately centuries of male domination have led to this behaviour being commonplace in Thailand, Asia, Africa, South America, Polynesia... etc etc etc. Hopefully in the future the women of these countries will stand up for their rights and show the men that they deserve equal treatment

I've talked to alot of Thai women lately about this, they are not shocked by my experience, they just say most Thai women would just suffer in silence and endure the behaviour.

On a personal note, I am feeling better, I don't cry every night and I haven't cried during the day this week. I am told I don't look sick anymore. I have laughed this week. I sleep better. I eat something every day.

[Andiamo]

Hi Gisele,

I'm glad to hear you are feeling a little stronger and eating. You are a fantastic person and he really does not deserve you. YOU deserve FAR better. Onward and upward girl! We are all behind you and here for you.

Here's a little quotation from a small book by Susan Jeffers my Dad gave me:-

"Giving 100% does not mean forever"

Life is forever bringing us new adventures.

New challenges arise involving career moves; relationships may end, and so.

But if you have given 100%,

When the time comes to move on,

There is nothing to regret.

Be strong and be safe Gisele.

Andiamo:)

Edited July 11, 2008 by Andiamo

[desi]

Thanks for checking in Gisele. I've been thinking about you quite a bit, hoping you are ok and all.

[Nampeung]

Me too Giselle. Please post often to tell us how you are managing

[sbk]

Glad to hear you are feeling better, I, too was wondering how you were.

Well, its interesting that Thai women say most would suffer in silence, yes, its true, esp among the older women, but alot of young women are starting to realize they don't have to put up with this behavior anymore. Hopefully they will teach their sons that this behavior is not acceptable instead of perpetuating the behavior by putting up with it.

[kat]

Good to hear from you Gisele! I'm glad to hear that you are getting on.

To add to SBK's comment, it would be nice if the younger Thai women also realized how they are hurting themselves and the position of Thai women as a whole when they get involved with adulterous men.

[eek]

This evening I was talking to a lovely lady who is the mamasan (can i say mamasan? She calls herself mamasan also tho) of my local massage place. As I was having a foot massage we caught up with how she is feeling today. A week or so ago she had given me a hug with tears in her eyes and told me she was so sad and had been crying because her (western) husband said he didnt want to come back to her. She has been with him 7 years (she is in her 50's. He is older). She told me she was feeling much better because her husband is going to stay with her. I said i was happy to hear that and happy to hear she is feeling better. Then she told me that he was going after younger girls, and that she was ok with it, so long as he didnt leave her. She said she told him that he can go with who he wants, take on more wives, they can even come stay, and even if he needs a baby to be looked after, she would do it, just so long as he doesnt leave her. All i felt i could do was ask if she felt happy and ok, and make sympathetic sounds. She said she is ok, because she loves him, and wants him to be happy so he will stay with her.

Sadly, if im honest, I admit there is a big part of me that understands where she is coming from. I understand that wish to not have to try start over, especially if older. I understand that some men can be clever and manipulative (and i know women can be too). That they can make a person lose sight of who she is, who she was, of her own value. I feel sad that some of us get this sting, instead of an honest, respectful, and faithful relationship where there are no "games".

I dont think its just a Thai male thing, because this behaviour is from a Western man. Although maybe because mamasan is willing to put up with the situation calmly, it encourages him to behave in this way. But if she didnt put up with it, what would the alternative be? I guess he would just leave her.

Im glad to read from others that younger Thai women are less willing to accept this. Im sure psychologically, putting up with this type of thing, will cause many problems (including physical health problems).

Gisele, I am sure getting through this must be very difficult, but I believe you did the right thing getting away from it all, and i admire your strength. Staying with him would only weaken you and your self-worth would deteriorate. Keep that in mind. Keep getting stronger, keep eating, and keep laughing.

..and keep posting updates. x

[kat]

I dont think its just a Thai male thing, because this behaviour is from a Western man. Although maybe because mamasan is willing to put up with the situation calmly, it encourages him to behave in this way. But if she didnt put up with it, what would the alternative be? I guess he would just leave her.

Yes, but let's not lose sight of the fact that he is a Western male in Thailand. I think as you say the outcome of this situation might be different elsewhere, but the couple itself might be different elsewhere as well.

*Not excluding the fact that for women in the West, their chances of getting married or finding a relationship are not finished at 30 or 50.

Edited July 14, 2008 by kat

[sbk]

And I don't think they are finished in Thailand either if the woman is willing to make some effort. One of our neighbors (a widow) recently remarried and she is in her 50's. They seem very happy, (he was a widower) so it is possible.

But I think too many women (not just Thai women but all women) find their self-worth in a man and seem to think they are nothing without one and are willing to put up with all sorts of abusive behavior to keep him. It takes strength to walk away from someone who treats you badly, especially when so many women suffer that fear of being alone.

[kat]

Yes, I agree on that point, SBK, but the stigma of being alone or without a man is much greater in Thailand and SEA, and the age limits, much more severe.

[girlx]

Although maybe because mamasan is willing to put up with the situation calmly, it encourages him to behave in this way. But if she didnt put up with it, what would the alternative be? I guess he would just leave her.

it's quite sad not to have enough self-reliance to handle the thought of being alone, even at 50. and very wrong for the man to let it continue as well. i don't think anyone should ever get into a relationship unless they are secure enough not to need it. quite sad that disrespect &/or abuse are preferable to being left alone for some people!

[gisele]

These last few days I was feeling quite strong however I am stressed and feeling teary today.

The movers are coming tomorrow, another thing will be done. I just finished putting in my car what I am taking from my office and the rest is in a corner in my house.

The finality of it is upsetting me I guess. Sometimes it just hits me. I need a good sleep.

As my brother keeps reminding me, focus on the future, I am going to a good job, Hong Kong is an exciting place and I will be busy making a life there.

My husband asked for 10,000 baht this past weekend, hounding me was more like it. He thinks I have money now because I have sold all my furniture and stuff.

I felt quite strong and I wasn't affected by his calls and messages. Apparently he found somebody to give it to him because he stopped asking.

Edited July 15, 2008 by gisele

[eek]

As your brother advises gisele, focus on the future. It is wonderful that you have a good opportunity ahead of you, and something to focus on. I also think its a good idea to remind yourself also that it is ok to grieve about this. When the feeling of sadness strikes, allow yourself time to reflect/have a cry/feel sad, but try set a time limit. Its like saying to yourself, for half a hour I will cry/shout/let out anger/feel sorry for myself/whatever i feel like doing, but after that time i will refocus again.I believe bottling up feelings can be as unhealthy as constantly weeping. (Also try to do something good for yourself too, and praise your qualities. Its important to focus on your self-worth.)

I admire your courage and understand how difficult going through this process can be (although it was different circumstances for me, im sure the feelings and process are similar.) Im glad you are keeping us posted. Keep being strong. x