Taxi Cabs Stand Still As LPG Supply Runs Short

[george]

Cabs stand still as LPG runs short

BANGKOK: -- About one fifth of Bangkok's taxis had to stay idle Monday after many service stations ran out of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG).

"There's nothing to fill these taxis' tanks," Siam Taxi Cooperative president Witoon Naewpanich said.

Taxi drivers complained that the sudden shortage had hit them at a time when they usually got more passengers than usual because of the payday period.

Speaking to a traffic radio station, a taxi driver lamented yesterday that his cab was running out of the LPG.

"Please help me find a station that sells LPG. Paying for expensive LPG is better than not having LPG to fill up my cab," he said.

Witoon said his group would meet with Energy Minister Poonpirom Liptapanlop this afternoon to voice their concern.

"Now, it's LPG. Soon it could be NGV," he said.

It is widely speculated that some vendors have been hoarding LPG to profit from the expected price hike once the Energy Ministry floats the price.

"Some people say a litre of LPG will rise by just Bt1 or Bt2. But others say the price may rise by up to Bt10," Witoon said.

Internal Trade Department directorgeneral Yanyong Phuangrach said his department was conducting surprise inspections of service stations to prevent hoarding.

Yanyong also urged people to report unfair practices on the 1569 hotline.

LPG is a controlled product and sellers are required by law to display the price at their place of business. Failure to do so is punishable by a fine of up to Bt10,000.

The penalty for hoarding is up to seven years in jail and/or a maximum fine of Bt140,000.

-- The Nation 2008-06-30

[dotcom]

I was quite shocked to see a taxi in a Shell station yest. It was quite a late model.

Obviously they had kept it dual fuel.

There is a lesson here.

Soviet style central planning does not work.

[george]

Energy chief affirms no LPG price adjustment now

BANGKOK: -- Permanent Secretary for Energy Pornchai Rujiprapa on Monday affirmed that prices of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) or cooking gas would not be raised by July 1 as many expected, but conceded they would be revised within a month.

Speaking about the LPG shortage in services stations now, he said the situation had eased since Sunday afternoon as the Energy Ministry allowed dealers to bring reserve gas supplies for sale last Saturday.

He said the ministry and the Internal Trade Department had discussed and monitored the situation all along.

The ministry would hold an internal meeting to assess the situation Monday afternoon, he said, affirming however that a meeting to discuss a dual price structure for LPG for vehicles and household uses would not be held on Tuesday.

He said the Energy Policy Management Committee would meet within a month to revise prices of fuel, particularly natural gas for vehicles.

But when fuel prices would be raised had yet to be determined, he said.

"LPG prices will not yet be raised tomorrow," Mr. Pornchai said. "I don't know why there is such a news report.

"It has made owners of personal cars, particularly luxury vehicles and those with large engines modified for LPG and fuel, crowed the service stations to fill up with fuel. It causes greater difficulty for taxies with engines modified for LPG only to get the service. I want to ask owners of private luxury cars not to do that," he said.

Mr. Pornchai said the LPG shortage stemmed mainly from the implementation of PTT's scheme for an anti-accident drill exercise, which resulted in a delayed gas supply of 2,000 tonnes.

At present, many motorists have changed to use LPG since oil prices continued to rise. Local demand has increased by 20 per cent to 1,000-1,800 tonnes per day.

Concurrently, more operators in the industrial sectors turned to count on LPG, resulting in a surge in gas use by over 20 per cent.

Mr. Pornchai reiterated the ministry did not encourage the LPG use in vehicles and the industrial sector because it had considerably boosted domestic demand.

Thailand imports over 20,000 tonnes of LPG per month for local sale at only US$330 per tonne while the global market price stays at $900 per tonne.

--TNA 2008-06-30

[Pushit]

This is crap.. they also run on gassoline at the flick of a switch,

[yadetout]

Good evening

With the fuel cost raising like this. What do you guys think to be the best solution for those who really need to have a car?

Diesel engine?

Benzene engine?

Hybrid?

LPG, NGV, CGT, NGT...?

and soon Diesel Hybrid or Hydrogen.

I like diesel (it's almost 80% of the market share in my country) because now we have powerful diesel engines and low gazole consumption.

Cheers

[cclub75]

This is crap.. they also run on gassoline at the flick of a switch,

Sure... But not at the same price.

This is... I believe... the main issue...

Anyway, it's funny to hear the denials of the authorities... Prices won't increase tomorrow ? Fair enough... What about next week ?

What's the point to gain a few days... what for ? Meanwhile, with no official communication, people are scared, so they run to the stations to fill up... the stations hoard of course etc... shortages...

It's chaos thai style.

And all this... to gain a few days... What do they expect ? That inflation rate is going to decrease in 2 weeks ? So it's better to hike the LPG price at that time ?

It's pathetic.

[BigBikeBKK]

Good Point ccclub,

What's the point or benefit of delaying the inevitable rise that has to happen in LPG and NGV prices?

Thailand can not afford to subsidize LPG at current prices indefinitely and the government has stated that prices will rise, but the longer they delay the more uncertainty and problems they create.

I read an article elsewhere that stated the Thai govt would continue to subsidize NGV prices as they wish more vehicles to convert to NGV.

Sounds like a scam- get people hooked on an alternative fuel by selling it at below market rates, then once they are hooked and have spent a ton of money to modify their vehicles the government will jack up the price.

What's the real story here?

[IAMSOBAD]

Maybe these morons should give a ride to every person who waves them down. Every time they say NO and drive off they waste time ...money...and fuel. They also cause accidents and are the major reason for traffic jams.

Why does a TAXI driver have so much control? Why do they drive around all day with no customers and then complain they make no money and have no fuel? MORONS!!!

[dotcom]

I stopped asking years ago.

Best vehicle - Hybrid. Maker - Toyota.

[TAWP]

They aren't allowed to deny rides.

But that hasn't stopped it from happening a couple of hundreds of times to me... on average the 4th taxi says yes for me on a daily basis.

[PooMik]

This is crap.. they also run on gassoline at the flick of a switch,

Yes - i have newer seen one without that switch!

[samran]

Maybe these morons should give a ride to every person who waves them down. Every time they say NO and drive off they waste time ...money...and fuel. They also cause accidents and are the major reason for traffic jams.

Why does a TAXI driver have so much control? Why do they drive around all day with no customers and then complain they make no money and have no fuel? MORONS!!!

you just get in and go. Unless your Taxi's of choice happen to trawl around lower Sukhumvit and the vehicle looks like it is out of a mad max film.

[AC_Eddie]

Its a worldwide problem. There is not enough energy of whatever kind. The solution is not to drill for more. The solution is for people to exercise the green alternatives which are: 1) Ride your bicycle. 2) Carpool with friends and co-workers. 3) Use public transportation and mass transit. 4) Walk. 5) Arrange telecommuting with your employer. The earth is fighting back with severe weather and high oil prices . In the end it may be a bad thing for humans but a better thing for the environment. Earth abides!!

[wrecker]

This is crap.. they also run on gassoline at the flick of a switch,

YES they do. But you are probably not willing to pay an fee of 200 baht more for the first 2 kilometer. Taxi drivers have a very bad job in Thailand, they hardly make any money. Crap is the fact that idiots block roads, hinder children when they have classes with amplifiers and claim that the government is to blame for the high gas prices. That's crap!

[IAMSOBAD]

Maybe these morons should give a ride to every person who waves them down. Every time they say NO and drive off they waste time ...money...and fuel. They also cause accidents and are the major reason for traffic jams.

Why does a TAXI driver have so much control? Why do they drive around all day with no customers and then complain they make no money and have no fuel? MORONS!!!

you just get in and go. Unless your Taxi's of choice happen to trawl around lower Sukhumvit and the vehicle looks like it is out of a mad max film.

I ride taxis all over the city. Not one looked like a vehicle out of any movie. All were METER TAXIS and I have been told NO because of traffic jam...or shift change. They must change shifts every hour because it happens all the time. BY THE WAY...when was the last time you took a taxi...and have you never been denied service?

Edited June 30, 2008 by IAMSOBAD

[nickynomates]

A horse a horse a kingdom for a horse.

Need i say more.

[chrisyork]

To answer yadetout's question. By far the most efficient engine is diesel - this is dictated by basic physics - the theoretical maximum efficiency rises with the compression ratio and diesels can be built with massively larger compression ratios than petrol or gas engines. Of course there are good diesels and bad diesels! Pollution from diesels generally refers to unburnt hydrocarbons emitted as soot - but the better and more modern the design the less soot you see. All are far better on CO2 emissions and hence do better mileage. As a side effect, because they are more efficient they need smaller coolant radiators, so there are elements of virtuous circle!

The best solution of the lot is Diesel Hybrid. Hybrid is good news because it allows the recovery of braking energy normally lost as heat to the battery. First generation hybrids often don't have this feature which is why they haven't bothered trying a diesel hybrid yet. The advantage with first generation ones is the ability to run the petrol engine at its most efficient power/speed setting and let the battery even out the peaks and troughs of power demand. With a diesel you don't have the wide variation of efficiency across the operating range - they are good on part load and on full load.

Which is the cheapest to run depends also on the cost of the fuel. In theory diesel should be almost exactly the same price as petrol. In practice many refineries are set to produce petrol in much higher quantites than diesel, so as demand for diesel goes up they are unable to keep up - hence diesel now being more expensive. New build refineries need not suffer from this problem; but one of the problems with fuel prices at the moment is that there have been no significant new refineries for around 25 years!

LPG is not price or volume related to petrol/diesel as it is from a different source - ie either dedicated gas fields or flare from an oil field, rather than being a refinery product of oil. So LPG prices should theoretically have a supply demand balance independent of petrol/diesel. That's a chicken way of saying prices could go up if too many people clock how cheap it is! Then you're back to underlying efficiency at which LPG is very poor.

Hydrogen is superficially attractive because of the particularely harmless emissions from the car - just water vapour. It is therefore very desirable in a confined urban area such as LA or Bangkok. But it's overall efficiency is dominated by how good the means of generating the electricity is to liberate the hydrogen in the first place. If your supply is all nuclear or all non fossil then fine, if like all normal countries you have fossil fuel in the generating mix then currently it loses badly in terms of overall efficiency and CO2 production. That can change but Thailand is unlikely to be first with a 100% non fossil fuel electricity generating system! As to cost, that seems to have been notably absent from all press reports to date!

So in summary I'll be first in the queue for a diesel hybrid that captures braking energy to the battery - but there isn't one yet anywhere in the world. In the meantime the most promising bet is the lightest and best performing diesel you can lay your hands on!

Chris

[rethaired]

I believe that it is time we close the Enron loophole which is allowing rampant speculation on future stocks affecting to a great degree (some analysts say up to 60%) the price of many commodities like oil and rice.

Who is paying for these usurious gains? ALL of us and, of course, the poorest of us are paying the hardest. At this time, we have no options and the big car companies are pushing hybrids (NOT electric cars). Is there anyone who believes that they could not produce an electric car? Of course they can. It is true that a lot of investments has been put into manufacturing cars using the internal combustion engine. I think this is of the main reason why the big car companies are pushing the hybrid cars since it is still using the internal combustion engine, manufacting plans, and oil. Of course, the big car companies are happy because there is a smooth transition for them towards an electric car and the oil companies (or producing countries) are happy too as the price of oil keeps climbing (or remains high) are making huge profits. But, is it good for us and the environment?

At $150 a barrel, oil is giving many of the players (producers and traders, including those big pension funds belonging to the baby boomers now starting to retire) returns on their investment that will NOT result in the cut of the use of oil and the use of the internal combustion engine. Tar sands, for instance, can be produced at a profit at around $50. $100 profit on a barrel is outrageous and gives every incentive for oil companies to continue to extract this oil at a huge cost, a huge environmental cost. I urge all environmentalists (and reasonable people) to help bring down the price of oil to give the chance for electric cars to become viable. I think prices need to drop and regulations on trading needs to occur.

The Canadian economy is strong thanks to all of this and so is my pension fund. On the other hand, food prices and oil price have been increasing. Flight prices have been increasing. Many people are losing their jobs. I think soon the huge gains are going to create a recession and then all of those gains will be for nothing.

Nuclear energy is --by far-- the most efficient energy source and, given proper and safe disposal of waste products, for many countries in the word (from the Northern hemisphere) the best energy source. Of course, for Thailand (and other countries from the Southern hemisphere, for instance), other energy sources might be more suitable. Of course, lowering consumption and waste of energy should be taking place. Do we need to live in palaces? Do we need to drive big SUVs? BTW, I think hydrogen technology is just as bad as oil since energy is needed to make hydrogen. I also think (like Chris) that hybrid diesel engines are (AT THIS TIME) the best solution, but it is still running on oil. A plug-in version would be best BTW. A car running purely on stored electricity is best I think, even though battery effiency/disposal and waste will need to be solved. Of course, gas station can be replaced by hydrogen stations. Guess who is going to be happy about that? Of course nuclear energy is dangerous, but is it anymore than a climate that is gong to create cataclysmic changes at the level of the planet?*

A lot of people are hurting and will be hurting as the price of commodities, such as oil, is increasing or remaining that high, except OF COURSE the big players.

* This is simplified due to time and space contraints.

Edited June 30, 2008 by rethaired

[scyriacus]

There is a lesson here.

Soviet style central planning does not work.

so you really think, that the actual oil & gas prices are due to 'Soviet style central planning'???????????????? or not and you think capitalism works fine................................

[bonobo]

I stopped asking years ago.

Best vehicle - Hybrid. Maker - Toyota.

I have a Toyota Prius back in the US that I drive when I am there. I love it!

[jantrevor]

As mentioned above diesel is most efficient and so it gives the best miles per btu.

Hybrids are actually the least efficient on a $$$ basis (they cost more) unless all your miles are city stop and go traffic (like a taxi). Electric power has max torque at zero rpm.

There is also the problem of battery replacement and recycling.

Gas turbines are also efficient, and will burn anything that has carbon in it and can be liquified.

The problem with diesel supply is that diesel is also #2 fuel oil, as used in boilers and generating stations.

Refineries have a certain amount of flexibility and an vary the ratio of petrol to fuel oil. Petrol demand is highest in the summer and fuel oil is highest in the winter.

[astral]

Where I live in the Middle East taxis are a shared affair.

They pick up additional people along the way, making diversions where necessary

to drop off people, and it is a fixed fare for a 3-4 km journey..

[EmptyMind]

Maybe these morons should give a ride to every person who waves them down. Every time they say NO and drive off they waste time ...money...and fuel. They also cause accidents and are the major reason for traffic jams.

Why does a TAXI driver have so much control? Why do they drive around all day with no customers and then complain they make no money and have no fuel? MORONS!!!

you just get in and go. Unless your Taxi's of choice happen to trawl around lower Sukhumvit and the vehicle looks like it is out of a mad max film.

Actually after living in BKK for a few years now I have little respect for 90% of the taxi drivers. Most of the time they are either too lazy, don't want to take you or don't know where they are going.

The other 10% who do actually want to work nearly always know where they are going.

Hopefully that 10% will find fuel and the other 90% can sit in their cabs and shake their heads in their mirrors.

I dunno where about you live but "get in and go" does not seem to work in BKK.

[h90]

There is a lesson here.

Soviet style central planning does not work.

so you really think, that the actual oil & gas prices are due to 'Soviet style central planning'???????????????? or not and you think capitalism works fine................................

Every Soviet style works better than Samak style.

[Briggsy]

There is a lesson here.

Soviet style central planning does not work.

so you really think, that the actual oil & gas prices are due to 'Soviet style central planning'???????????????? or not and you think capitalism works fine................................

He's talking about the government price regulation of LPG within Thailand.

[Jing Joe]

I stopped asking years ago.

Best vehicle - Hybrid. Maker - Toyota.

Sure electric and Hybrid are great but have a look at these compressed Air Cars that are propably going to win the race.

There is an Italian guy in Melbourne who has invented an even better motor that is rotary.

The Indian car ---

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive...rs/4217016.html

The Compressed Air Car developed by Motor Development International (MDI) Founder Guy Negre might be the best thing to have happened to the motor engine in years.

The $12,700 CityCAT, one of the planned Air Car models, can hit 68 mph and has a range of 125 miles. It will take only a few minutes for the CityCAT to refuel at gas stations equipped with custom air compressor uni ts. MDI says it should cost only around $2 to fill the car up with 340 liters of air!

The Air Car will be starting production relatively soon, thanks to India 's TATA Motors. Forget corn! There's fuel, there's renewable fuel, and then there's user-renewable fuel! What can be better than air?

[Robski]

I believe that it is time we close the Enron loophole which is allowing rampant speculation on future stocks affecting to a great degree (some analysts say up to 60%) the price of many commodities like oil and rice.

Thankyou.

One of the biggest factors in high oil prices, according to many experts, is that investors, such as hedge funds and investment bankers, can use loopholes in commodities law to manipulate the market and drive crude oil, heating oil, gasoline and diesel fuel prices to new heights.

Congress is aware of the problem and lawmakers recently passed legislation to address the “Enron Loophole,” one of the major loopholes that opens the door to abusive trading practices, but the law didn’t go far enough.

Unfortunately, other loopholes exist that allow energy trading on completely “dark” exchanges. For example, the “Foreign Markets Loophole” allows American energy commodities to be traded overseas – exempt from U.S. oversight.

These so-called “Dark Markets” – commodities markets that are not policed by U.S. authorities provide for an open the door to manipulation, even outright control of the markets.

For example, speculative investors can buy and sell millions of barrels of U.S. destined oil and other energy products every day in the United Kingdom and even in Dubai… but are not made subject to the transparency and accountability laws that govern exchanges here in the United States!

Additionally, through the so-called “swaps loophole,” financial investors can “game the markets” for pure profit by buying up positions in the energy markets, without any limitation on the size of the positions they can take. One recent estimate suggested that they now control one third of the commodities markets, or $150 billion - a 1,000% increase in less than five years!

Some experts believe that as much as 60 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline or heating oil can be attributed to pure speculation and abusive –even manipulative – trading practices, yet most trading is “dark” and federal authorities can neither fully police or see the data in the majority of the trading markets.

The energy trading markets were originally set up to provide energy producers and distributors with an environment to manage risk and produce the best possible price for their customers. But they are clearly no longer the driving force in the market. Profiteering speculators and investment banks care little about establishing a price for energy based on supply and demand fundamentals – they care about turning a PROFIT.

http://www.stopoilspeculators.com/

[alstaxi]

This is crap.. they also run on gassoline at the flick of a switch,

they run like crap on gas, after a steady diet of propane, I have converted many vehicles, straight propane works best, dual fuel not too good, gas sits in tank for a year for example,engine timing issues as well to mention a few problems.

[soundman]

Taxi drivers have a very bad job in Thailand, they hardly make any money.

If you follow that logic, why are there so many doing taxi driving? Are they just a bunch of good samaritans?

[NanLaew]

So a fifth of the Bangkok taxi fleet was idled yesterday? Was it just me or was it so much easier to get a cab and do business yesterday? I am an infrequent Bangkok business visitor but I made 4 different appointments early or on time, including a 9 am, a lunch date, a 2 pm and a 4.45pm drive to Don Muang for a 6 pm flight. It seemed so much easier than I imagined it would be. And btw, none of the 6 taxis I used refused my hire, just flagged down, climbed in, stated destination and off we went with the meter running.