Taxi Cabs Stand Still As LPG Supply Runs Short

[dotcom]

Crikey. You don't understand how hoarding works.

[Plus]

I take taxi on average 8 times per week now, and it looks like it have to increase...and it's a re-occuring pattern downtown. Have been refused 1 time I can remember in the suburbs, but downtown it's daily. Even for in-downtown trips.

I admit that my explanations apply only my experience, and my experience is vastly different. If I was refused as many times as you, I'd probably have a different opinion, too.

[Losangels]

Yes I do have my share of taxi driver refusing to take me though usually during rush hour, heavy rain or heavy traffic. I believe its against the law for them to refuse service, but what the -ell, many laws here are not obeyed due to lack of enforcement and or double standards

[clausewitz]

I am curious about hoarding LPG. Anyone with a 45 gallon oil drum or plastic water storage tank can hoard gasoline or petrol.

However, doesn't storing LPG require a little more technology.

Can your average Somchai just sink a tank in his back yard and store propane? I don't think so.

Maybe if the government came clean and explained to people just what is happening in clear language, maybe there wouldn't be the panic mentality. Or would there?

[dotcom]

I'm still waiting for him to swear off jet planes. Ain't gonna happen. ditto air conditioning.

Most of these greenie weenies want YOU to cut back while they are status quo.

[rethaired]

The reality is the earth has always changed! Look at the last 100,000 years for proof of that.

Sure. But at that time, we weren't there.

I agree, that has a major influence on the situation. Speculator bastard turning a minor problem into a major one!

It seems a little bit... more complicated than that.

Crude Oil Rises a Second Day as IEA Predicts `Tight' Supplies Through 2013 (Bloomberg)

I am perplexed by these rises in demand of oil (and other commodities) as economies around the world are slowing down as the result of these increases in the price of oil (and other commodities), which have reduced consumption of goods and oil. Do you or don't you agree that speculators are manipulating or speculating with commodities, and namely future stocks? If not, why not?

Edited July 2, 2008 by rethaired

[Robski]

4) Excerpt from page 22 from testimony from Mr. Greenberger before the U.S. Senate June 3: "if you were to add all of the West Texas Intermediate [oil] trading on NYMEX, ICE, and the Dubai exchange [the latter two unregulated by CFTC], speculation might very well approach 80-90 per cent of the WTI trades executed by U.S. owned exchanges. By any objective assessment, the crude oil market is now overwhelmingly dominated by speculation, most of which is not subject to the age old controls imposed upon speculators in these markets"

5) "Saudi Arabia produced about 3.2 billion barrels (510×10⁶ m³) of oil in 2006, this would give it over 80 years of reserves at current rates of production", according to British Petroleum and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

WOW! 80 years! This is not exactly tomorrow, is it? Is there anyone here who is willing to prove that China's or India's economy have tripled in 2 years, reducing by a factor of 3 these reserves? That would be astounding as it would be impossible. AND let us remind people that because of many fiascos (bank,...) many economies are slowing down and consumption of oil is too. Find the data to prove me wrong. I urge you.

Anyway, I am not too sure if it is evidence that is needed here.

I doubt that speculators would openly admit that there are doing something wrong.

Would a thief phone the police and ask to be sent to jail?

A great post that gets right to the heart of the matter.

And what do the politicians have to say about this issue? Nothing it would seem to adversly affect their investments.

[Robski]

Crikey. You don't understand how hoarding works.

Oh wise one.. please do explain it to us.

[cclub75]

I am perplexed by these rises in demand of oil (and other commodities) as economies around the world are slowing down as the result of these increases in the price of oil (and other commodities), which have reduced consumption of goods and oil. Do you or don't you agree that speculators are manipulating or speculating with commodities, and namely future stocks? If not, why not?

Some charts : demand

http://omrpublic.iea.org/

http://omrpublic.iea.org/world/wb_wodem.pdf

Yes right now, demand decreases (a little bit) in the US for instance (people drove less in may).

But, 2 counter factors :

-people use more... elsewhere (china, india etc.)

-and supply, like IEA said, starts to be tight

I mean... figures are available everywhere. North sea supply is going down, Mexico (with the giant field Cantarell, a big supplier of the US) is declining, fast, etc...

The light sweet crude is becoming scare, more than the heavy and sour etc.

If you want the datas, go to http://www.theoildrum.com/

[Seizhin]

We might run out of oil in the next 10 years, I dont wonder why the OPEC are desperate in making the price rise to a higher standard.

Still we all knows that Buffet and Zorros are both investing in oils now.

[rethaired]

I am perplexed by these rises in demand of oil (and other commodities) as economies around the world are slowing down as the result of these increases in the price of oil (and other commodities), which have reduced consumption of goods and oil. Do you or don't you agree that speculators are manipulating or speculating with commodities, and namely future stocks? If not, why not?

Some charts : demand

http://omrpublic.iea.org/

http://omrpublic.iea.org/world/wb_wodem.pdf

Yes right now, demand decreases (a little bit) in the US for instance (people drove less in may).

But, 2 counter factors :

-people use more... elsewhere (china, india etc.)

-and supply, like IEA said, starts to be tight

I mean... figures are available everywhere. North sea supply is going down, Mexico (with the giant field Cantarell, a big supplier of the US) is declining, fast, etc...

The light sweet crude is becoming scare, more than the heavy and sour etc.

If you want the datas, go to http://www.theoildrum.com/

BUT, for instance, "Saudi Arabia produced about 3.2 billion barrels (510×10⁶ m³) of oil in 2006, this would give it over 80 years of reserves at current rates of production", according to British Petroleum and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

WOW! 80 years! This is not exactly tomorrow, is it? Is there anyone here who is willing to prove that China's or India's economy have tripled in 2 years, reducing by a factor of 3 these reserves? That would be astounding as it would be impossible. AND let us remind people that because of many fiascos (bank,...) many economies are slowing down and consumption of oil is too. Find the data to prove me wrong. I urge you.

According to wikipedia , as of 2007, even Mexico, which you claim is fast running out of oil, had 10 years of reserves. Again, this is not tomorrow. And, we know that exploration is going to find and is going to be able to extract more oil. At $150, why wouldn't Saudi Arabia build more infrastructure to fill the demand? If we need more oil, the price of the barrel would certainly provide all the incentives to day to allow more investment in producing more barrels, increasing infrastructure, and so and so forth. I do not believe the doom and gloom. I believe that a lot of this has a lot more to do with speculation than demand. Has demand increased by 7 times (when the barrel was at $20) what it was 5 years ago? That is absolutely UNTRUE and IMPOSSIBLE.

In 2006, demand was 84.9 versus supply 85.4. Did anyone see a drop in the price of oil? NO! Surprising, isn't it? In 2007, more demand by.5. Okay! Maybe there was some reason for an increase in price there. So, if in one year there was a drop in demand and the next year more demand, wouldn't one think that the price should not go up, but be the same as it was in 2006? 1 Q of 2008, more supply by .2. Did you see a drop of price? NO! Further proof that most of this, as many people (more knowledgeable than you and me, is speculative. (http://omrpublic.iea.org/balances.asp)

Sorry! I don't buy it!

These rises are NOT supported by fundamentals.

Edited July 3, 2008 by rethaired

[steveromagnino]

Yes I do have my share of taxi driver refusing to take me though usually during rush hour, heavy rain or heavy traffic. I believe its against the law for them to refuse service, but what the -ell, many laws here are not obeyed due to lack of enforcement and or double standards

It's against the law to discriminate based on race or gender.... but go apply for some jobs with a foreign name (or better yet a Maori name) and let's hear how you get on ;-)

Same worldwide; taxis for the most part are either turning down because it takes them miles away (surely they should be allowed to turn down a person asking to go to Chiang Mai), close to shift change time, or they are scammers (in which case, the law should lean on them heavily)

[cclub75]

BUT, for instance, "Saudi Arabia produced about 3.2 billion barrels (510×10⁶ m³) of oil in 2006, this would give it over 80 years of reserves at current rates of production", according to British Petroleum and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

WOW! 80 years! This is not exactly tomorrow, is it?

If you want to believe some stupid (stupid because only political) figures of "reserves", given by the producers themselves... fair enough.

But it's a big mistake.

I'm not sure, are you aware of the Big Hike of 1985 When some Opec members, overnight, doubled the figures of their reserves ? Because they could then increase their quotas of production... ?

Convenient, isn'it ? Reserves figures are bullshit. They are merely a propaganda tool.

In 2006, demand was 84.9 versus supply 85.4. Did anyone see a drop in the price of oil? NO! Surprising, isn't it? In 2007, more demand by.5. Okay! Maybe there was some reason for an increase in price there. So, if in one year there was a drop in demand and the next year more demand, wouldn't one think that the price should not go up, but be the same as it was in 2006? 1 Q of 2008, more supply by .2. Did you see a drop of price? NO!

There is no point to argue over a few hundred thousands barrels (other issue : nobody has counted really all those barrels). What is important is the trend. The trend is : we are touching the dangerous zone where supply = demand.

Oil is needed everyday, all the time, oil is too vital.

With no security net, anything, any event can send the price higher.

First we pay the fact that the safety net is decreasing. Then we will pay the fact that... production is declining.

[dotcom]

Crikey. You don't understand how hoarding works.

Oh wise one.. please do explain it to us.

Nah. Work it out for yourself.

Try & find out who import LPG to Thailand. Somchai isn't one of them. Your 50 gallon drum isn't going to affect the price. But if it makes you feel better - hoard as much as you can. Buy junk taxis & fill em up.

[samran]

There is no point to argue over a few hundred thousands barrels (other issue : nobody has counted really all those barrels). What is important is the trend. The trend is : we are touching the dangerous zone where supply = demand.

Oil is needed everyday, all the time, oil is too vital.

With no security net, anything, any event can send the price higher.

First we pay the fact that the safety net is decreasing. Then we will pay the fact that... production is declining.

The simple fact is demand is outstipping supply.

OECD production is at capacity. Saudi promised last month that they'd increase production by 2m barrels per day, they managed 250K instread - 1/8 of what they promised. A good indication at they are at their limits.

Non-OECD production is decling as well. Mature oil wells are declining in production, and they aren't being replaced fast enough.

Although Gasoline consumption is down in the US, oil prices are held high by desiel demand out of China and India. They can't get enough of it.

On top of that, there aren't enough complex refiners in the world to produce the amounts of desiel that he world demands. In Asia, given the current refining capacity, on average 1 barrel of oil (depending on its quality) can produce about 35% of its output as Diesel. This is not enough to meet Diesel demand.

So you have this situation where oil is being refined, and the Diesel that results is not enough to meet demand. However other products which also get produced as a result of the refining process (Gasoline, Jet/Kero, Naphtha, Fuel Oil) are not being consumed in as fast a rate as Diesel.

Add to this, the oil that is coming out of the ground, is increasingly becoming heavier and more sour. This requires more complex refineries to turn them into products we need. So there is also a lack of refiners who can make enough of the stuff that we need to drive our cars, heat our houses, and fly our planes.

[dotcom]

True story.

[Robski]

Crikey. You don't understand how hoarding works.

Oh wise one.. please do explain it to us.

Nah. Work it out for yourself.

We are not worthy!

[dotcom]

anything for you saheeb.

[rethaired]

BUT, for instance, "Saudi Arabia produced about 3.2 billion barrels (510×10⁶ m³) of oil in 2006, this would give it over 80 years of reserves at current rates of production", according to British Petroleum and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

WOW! 80 years! This is not exactly tomorrow, is it?

If you want to believe some stupid (stupid because only political) figures of "reserves", given by the producers themselves... fair enough.

But it's a big mistake.

I'm not sure, are you aware of the Big Hike of 1985 When some Opec members, overnight, doubled the figures of their reserves ? Because they could then increase their quotas of production... ?

Convenient, isn'it ? Reserves figures are bullshit. They are merely a propaganda tool.

In 2006, demand was 84.9 versus supply 85.4. Did anyone see a drop in the price of oil? NO! Surprising, isn't it? In 2007, more demand by.5. Okay! Maybe there was some reason for an increase in price there. So, if in one year there was a drop in demand and the next year more demand, wouldn't one think that the price should not go up, but be the same as it was in 2006? 1 Q of 2008, more supply by .2. Did you see a drop of price? NO!

There is no point to argue over a few hundred thousands barrels (other issue : nobody has counted really all those barrels). What is important is the trend. The trend is : we are touching the dangerous zone where supply = demand.

Oil is needed everyday, all the time, oil is too vital.

With no security net, anything, any event can send the price higher.

First we pay the fact that the safety net is decreasing. Then we will pay the fact that... production is declining.

The marginal increase in demand does not justify a 700% increase in the price of oil (from $20 to $140 a barrel). Saudi Arabia can increase production and has. There is a lot more oil coming out of the tar sands now.

The rise of price of crude is MOSTLY speculative. Many people (in the know) are saying it.

[...]

"Three separate internal confidential memos from Mobil, Chevron and Texaco have been obtained by The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights.

These memos outline a deliberate agenda to gouge prices and create artificial scarcity by limiting capacities of and outright closing oil refineries. This was a nationwide lobbying effort led by the American Petroleum Institute to encourage refineries to do this.

An internal Chevron memo states; "A senior energy analyst at the recent API convention warned that if the US petroleum industry doesn't reduce its refining capacity it will never see any substantial increase in refinery margins."

The Memos make clear that blockages in refining capacity and opening new refineries did not come from environmental organizations, as the oil industry claimed, but via a deliberate policy of limitation and price gouging at the behest of the oil industry itself."

[...]

"A Wall Street Journal article by Peter Huber and Mark Mills describes how the price of oil remains high because the cost of oil remains so low. We are not dependent on the middle east for oil because the world's supplies are diminishing, it is because it is more profitable to tap middle east supplies. Thus the myth of peak oil is needed in order to silence the call for tapping the planet's other plentiful reserves.

Richard Branson has even stated his intention to set up his own refinery because the price of oil is artificially being kept high whilst new sources are not being explored and new refineries not being built.

"Opec is effectively an illegal cartel that can meet happily, nobody takes them to court," Branson has said. "They collude to keep prices high."

[...]

"We have previously scientifically exposed the scam behind peak oil. Here is a 1 hour+ audio clip featuring Alex Jones' comments on peak oil and then the analysis of respected scientific commentator Dr. Nick Begich who presents evidence to suggest the idea of Peak oil is artificial."

(http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/peak_oil/index.htm)

AND,... here is a letter that I would like to share with you.

"Dear Mom

My job at the Commodities Exchange here in America is going wonderfully. I have made lots of money here for Uncle Fred. I have learned much from these speculators here in America. They taught me how to make tons of money. You see my friends here in America want to buy all of Uncle Fred's crude oil. They only pay 35 dollars for a barrel of oil. You know It cost Uncle Fred 10 dollars to ship it to them and he wants that new house in Bedrock so I will do everything I can to help him out of course. I found out that I can buy 100 barrels for 5% of cost. That's less than 2 dollars a barrel on the commodities exchange. He doesn’t even have to pump it out of the ground or ship it. They buy it with guaranteed pension and insurance funds so uncle Fred’s money is not in danger. There is no risk at all. And when I buy it's so easy to hide. You see they are without transparency so I can buy and sell barrels of oil raising the price each time and know one knows its me. It gets better Mom, you see these purchases are called contracts and I get paid for each one of these contracts . This is such a great scheme.. Sometimes I buy and sell barrels as many as 50 times before Uncle Fred ever gives one barrel to the oil company. I have to go now. I will write later Mom.

Buy now!

Junior"

Edited July 3, 2008 by rethaired

[Sturbuc]

I stopped asking years ago.

Best vehicle - Hybrid. Maker - Toyota.

Sure electric and Hybrid are great but have a look at these compressed Air Cars that are propably going to win the race.

There is an Italian guy in Melbourne who has invented an even better motor that is rotary.

The Indian car ---

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive...rs/4217016.html

The Compressed Air Car developed by Motor Development International (MDI) Founder Guy Negre might be the best thing to have happened to the motor engine in years.

The $12,700 CityCAT, one of the planned Air Car models, can hit 68 mph and has a range of 125 miles. It will take only a few minutes for the CityCAT to refuel at gas stations equipped with custom air compressor uni ts. MDI says it should cost only around $2 to fill the car up with 340 liters of air!

The Air Car will be starting production relatively soon, thanks to India 's TATA Motors. Forget corn! There's fuel, there's renewable fuel, and then there's user-renewable fuel! What can be better than air?

Nice thought: if run out of "fuel" can use a bicycle pump to fill up :-). But whats about the electric system? And where does the power come from to run the compressors?

Edited July 31, 2008 by Sturbuc

[Tony Clifton]

Why taxi drivers bother? I dunno.

May it's because many are like the guy in the village here who got caught with drugs, did jail and ended up in a green/yellow taxi instead of on his usual motorcycle-taxi.

To some it may seem like a promotion but to me it sounds like punishment or work in exchange for favor owed.

Anyway, beats construction work at 150 baht a day under the sun.