20 Year Overstay

[Flhai]

The story didn't surprise me. Tucked away in villages and non touristy small towns there are probably many similar cases. Local authorities know little about immigration rules, and as long as the person doesn't make waves and never leaves the area, his status will never be checked.

I once asked the immigration police in Pibhun Mangsahan (Isaan) about staying in Thailand without a visa/work permit (in the event that I lost my job and work permit), and they said there are many foreigners living this way in Isaan. Provided they don't make trouble, immigration doesn't trouble them.

I was told the exact same thing (only 2nd hand). I was also told that it's dependant on the trouble you make and where you come from. They don't like west Africans at all and a few other nationalities. The thing is though people carry on like that and they don't have a problem until someone else asks them to make a problem and you have no recourse.

[poolsiriron]

I'm surprised at how many people seem to regard overstays of 10 years (or more), more as a trivial offence rather than a serious one. What I'd like to know is where do they get their money from to exist here for such a long time. Do they marry a Thai lady who goes out to work and supports them for 10 years, or do they have a very generous pension fund. Or do they work illegally, and pay no taxes for ten years (or more), which I'm sure the locals Thais don't mind at all. As has been mentioned before, I'd much rather respect the Thai people and the country by living here and obeying their laws - all of them.

Poolsiri_Ron

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

I very much prefer a Farang (or anyone for that matter) to stay here without visa/passport and/or work illegally and spending their (probably rather low) income here than having someone with the proper visa and work permit behaving bad towards Thai people or get drunk and start a fight in a pub.

Staying without visa doesn't hurt anyone and someone in such position doesn't have a high-paying job where the government would get much taxes from. I'm speaking of experience - my ex-colleague never made more than 20k per month.

And then - just how many Thais are in YOUR country without the proper visa, working illegally? In Germany (MY country) it's a good many of them. And be sure - they do NOT spend their money there but send every penny of it home to Thailand!

Overstayers sure break the law - but are they criminals? Me wouldn't think so.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[HelterSkelter]

I don't doubt that he overstayed for 20 years.

What I can't understand is how he managed to avoid being put in the IDC.

Is bail allowed in such circumstances?

Why wasn't he detained?

Seems awful kind hearted to let him return to Isaan to wait for his flight.

What are the repercussions of such a lengthy overstay? I have read other posts suggesting the slate is wiped clean, and you may return without penalty. Does anyone know any different?

Punishment, Perhaps a little time in the "Monkey House" AND OFFICIALLY MAX OVERSTAY FINE OF 20,000TBHT!And of coarse,deportation!

[Richie1971]

I new a guy (English) who recently died here in Goa, he overstayed here for over 30 years, came in on a tourist visa and told everybody he had a resident permit.

Nobody asked to see it, and as long as you don't get into trouble (with locals, accident, fight, etc), who cares?

I did my 6 month visaruns because i don't like to live looking over my shoulders all the time, but in the 3,5 years nobody asked me anything.

Even at a police check with the car they only ask for driverlicence and insurance, never passport!

So, Possible i guess.

In 13 years in Thailand the only time i have been asked for my passport is when i was being question in a murder case.

The police Colonel asked for my passport.

Nope.

Do you have a photocopy with you ?

Nope but i do have a Thai drivers license?

Okay no problem lets see that.

A photo copy of my thai drivers license was taken and i signed the photo copy.

My conclusion is that the only police that care about you carrying a passport are the immigration police.

Murder case???? Are you one of the sopranos? Or a Goodfella?

You cant just drop statments n

[Richie1971]

Edited July 8, 2008 by Richie1971

[Richie1971]

I new a guy (English) who recently died here in Goa, he overstayed here for over 30 years, came in on a tourist visa and told everybody he had a resident permit.

Nobody asked to see it, and as long as you don't get into trouble (with locals, accident, fight, etc), who cares?

I did my 6 month visaruns because i don't like to live looking over my shoulders all the time, but in the 3,5 years nobody asked me anything.

Even at a police check with the car they only ask for driverlicence and insurance, never passport!

So, Possible i guess.

In 13 years in Thailand the only time i have been asked for my passport is when i was being question in a murder case.

The police Colonel asked for my passport.

Nope.

Do you have a photocopy with you ?

Nope but i do have a Thai drivers license?

Okay no problem lets see that.

A photo copy of my thai drivers license was taken and i signed the photo copy.

My conclusion is that the only police that care about you carrying a passport are the immigration police.

Murder case???? Are you one of the Sopranos? Or a Goodfella?

You cant just drop statements like that and leave them unless your'e e-mailing from Klong Prem

Edited July 8, 2008 by Richie1971

[Richie1971]

Do you have any corroboration that any crackdown or increased scrutiny of all foreigners at any time in the entire history of Thai Immigrations is due to handicapped, elderly, half-blind, alcoholic, diabetics living in small rural villages whose only crime is an overstay?

Well its just called overstay is it? In the UK its called illegal immigrant! Overstay is to light a word! I would have to agree with a few others and say send him home and dont let him back, thats the way i feel about the illegal immigrants in the UK so the same to him. haha

You wouldn't like it here in Thailand Tom, loads of foreigners, Asians mostly, send em back thats what I say. Good riddance.

[PeO]

I'm not suprised if he haad 20 years overstay , a very good friend of my died i Pattaya 1999 and at that time he almost 15 years overstay but the imigration and police was not intressted of him he did not do any crime so they just let him live his life , Now in those days with computers I'll think it's impossible

[ayayay]

Hi

An ex-colleague (German) of mine entered Thailand in 1985 overland from Malaysia, and on his first night in Thailand was robbed and had his passport stolen (among other things).

He stayed, illegal, got married to Thai woman too, had kids (marriage in temple, but no papers), worked illegal as teacher (his wife is personnel director in the school, comes in handy) and drove a car, without any license.

Never been asked for a passport in all the years.

Finally in 2006 he decided, all by himself, to get things straight - took a lawyer, got a new passport from the German embassy, paid 20k at immigration, flew to Germany and was back one week later with a valid non-B and has now got work permit and everything (still working as a teacher at that same school).

Is it really possible to fly out of Thailand with a shining new passport, without any previos records on Visa status etc? Would not immigration department be interested to know more about this?

What that means is then that any guy who has been staying here over time for a looong time would only have to get a new passport and by doing so, erase his Visa status and everything?

Sounds unlikely...

Arent the people at the airport, immigration department interested what his Visa status is?

[lopburi3]

That is not what he said - the person obtained a new passport because he needed a new passport. He still had to pay the 20k overstay fine and I am sure received a red overstay mark in his new passport.

[ayayay]

That is not what he said - the person obtained a new passport because he needed a new passport. He still had to pay the 20k overstay fine and I am sure received a red overstay mark in his new passport.

Yeah, sorry i see that now, but still i am curious, how can it be so easy to obtain a B -visa just one week after this huge overstay, wouldnt immigration be hesitant to give this fellow (who after all, overstayed in the kingdom for so many years illegally) a B visa?

Just curious

[lopburi3]

Immigration did not give him a visa - a Consulate did that. Unless he is black listed there is seldom a problem obtaining a visa for entry, even with overstay. That could always change; but for now it is the case.

[Jimjim]

Hi

An ex-colleague (German) of mine entered Thailand in 1985 overland from Malaysia, and on his first night in Thailand was robbed and had his passport stolen (among other things).

He stayed, illegal, got married to Thai woman too, had kids (marriage in temple, but no papers), worked illegal as teacher (his wife is personnel director in the school, comes in handy) and drove a car, without any license.

Never been asked for a passport in all the years.

Finally in 2006 he decided, all by himself, to get things straight - took a lawyer, got a new passport from the German embassy, paid 20k at immigration, flew to Germany and was back one week later with a valid non-B and has now got work permit and everything (still working as a teacher at that same school).

Is it really possible to fly out of Thailand with a shining new passport, without any previos records on Visa status etc? Would not immigration department be interested to know more about this?

What that means is then that any guy who has been staying here over time for a looong time would only have to get a new passport and by doing so, erase his Visa status and everything?

Sounds unlikely...

Arent the people at the airport, immigration department interested what his Visa status is?

His visa status was overstay and the authorities knew that. That's why you see the part about paying 20K at immigration. That's the maximum fine for overstay and if you can pay it you're usually free to leave the country.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

Yup, that's what happened. That's also why he took a lawyer - first he got the passport (German embassy), then a ticket to Germany, and then turned himself in to immigration (with lawyer). There he had to present his ticket, pay the fine and got a 7-day stamp, which was enough as his flight was a couple of days later. Yes, he got an overstay note as well, but was not blacklisted, which is why the Thai embassy in Germany issued a visa without problem (as he had his paperwork from the school and all).

I guess the difference is if you turn yourself in (as he did) or if you're caught overstaying by police - in the latter case they probably blacklist you easier, also IDC is possible as they want to keep you in sight while you organize your ticket home (respectively have someone do it for you). As my ex-colleague already had the ticket and paid the fine they let him go with the 7-day stamp.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[bulmercke]

Interesting thread.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were - at this moment - no less than ten or twenty thousand - foreigners on overstay in Thailand.

And I don't blame them one bit.

The government in recent years has made it increasingly more and more difficult for ordinary, decent and law abiding foreigners to remain here - usually with their loved ones.

Often these foreigners with families (wives and dependents) are without pensions or other means of sufficient financial support to remain legal.

Who at the end of the day really cares if they're legal here or not - particularly if they're non-offenders and are minding their own business and supporting Thai dependents to the best of their abilities?

And who - at the end of the day - wants to see Thais separated from their partners and sponsors - even if they're of limited financial means?

[AmeriThai]

Hmm. Very interesting thread. About 10 years ago, I bumped into a guy from Holland, seems like it was at Sukhothai. We chatted a bit, and he told me he'd been in the country for 10 years, that his visa ran out and he never left. He said he lived way out in the sticks with his wife, though not legally married. He said he pretty much laid low and made very little money in the area where he lived. Been too long ago to remember the details, but he was a bit concerned about the risk of being stopped. Kinda makes me wonder if it might have been the same guy.

[jts-khorat]

I'm surprised at how many people seem to regard overstays of 10 years (or more), more as a trivial offence rather than a serious one.

...

As has been mentioned before, I'd much rather respect the Thai people and the country by living here and obeying their laws - all of them.

I am surprised there are people living here for years and still think that the laws on the books are "laws" like Westerners would understand them... in a country where nobody:

- cares about the law (pet peeve: motorbike riders without helmet)

- pays taxes (none in the family of my girlfriend has ever even heard of this concept)

- gives fair treatment to foreign guests (double charging at national parks)

- is willing to give citizenship even to people who live here for generations (hilltribes)

- cares about transparency and logical conditions in their visa regulations, so that one can follow them easily

Surely you are joking by saying you would rather abide by the laws, nobody here gives anything about them, least the Thais themselves. Treat the laws here as mere guidelines and you have mastered the first step to integrating into the local culture (and last I heard, 'respecting the Thai people' means following their own 'good example', does it not?).

[tijnebijn]

I'm surprised at how many people seem to regard overstays of 10 years (or more), more as a trivial offence rather than a serious one.

...

As has been mentioned before, I'd much rather respect the Thai people and the country by living here and obeying their laws - all of them.

I am surprised there are people living here for years and still think that the laws on the books are "laws" like Westerners would understand them... in a country where nobody:

- cares about the law (pet peeve: motorbike riders without helmet)

- pays taxes (none in the family of my girlfriend has ever even heard of this concept)

- gives fair treatment to foreign guests (double charging at national parks)

- is willing to give citizenship even to people who live here for generations (hilltribes)

- cares about transparency and logical conditions in their visa regulations, so that one can follow them easily

Surely you are joking by saying you would rather abide by the laws, nobody here gives anything about them, least the Thais themselves. Treat the laws here as mere guidelines and you have mastered the first step to integrating into the local culture (and last I heard, 'respecting the Thai people' means following their own 'good example', does it not?).

You understand more then most here ever would about Thailand and its people , there is nothing wrong with that ,

its just how it always have been and always will be , an't agree with you more !

[pumpuiman]

UPDATE.....He has returned to Isaan. I don't have any specifics on his visa type or anything else for that matter. Apparently he got home, dropped his bags and went immediately to his local watering hole.

I have asked my wife to try to get some more information......I'll post it as I receive it.

[pumpuiman]

Apparently he has returned on a tourist visa. He does not have the available funds for a retirement visa...and is very depressed about the situation.

I was thinking of advising him of the marriage visa route. He receives some sort of income from his home country...retirement or disability, I'm not sure...and I don't know the amount.

How does one go about proving his wifes...(wink,wink)...income, to combine with his own to meet eligibility? Will she have to form an official business of some sort...or merely start paying tax on the required amount of income?

I've tried searching threads....but can't find specifics.

Anyone have any experience? Or links to old threads?

Replies or PM's appreciated.

[Mario2008]

if he is married to a Thai national he needs to show a family income of 40,000 baht a month. (So he, his or combined). Income from within Thailand must be proved with tax-documents, income from abroad, like his retirement or disabillity must be shown with a letter from his embassy confirming his income.

But if he was officialy married he should have been able to get a non-O, not a tourist visa.

[pampal]

20 years is a long overstay

[pumpuiman]

He is not yet "officially" married....but if he were....

I understand the 40,000 baht combined income....what I'm not clear on is what is required for tax documents.

Does she need to form a company....show bank transactions...whatever.

Lets say for example he gets 20,000 baht per month income. Is it possible for his wife to pay taxes on 20,000 baht additional income....without showing any other proof of that income, other than paying the tax on it?

Does anyone get my drift here?

[engrin]

yes, I've heard the above is really easy to do

pm coming

[pumpuiman]

Thanks, "engrin" ....very helpful.