Thieving Police

[Shotime]

jai yen yen means calm down, I think.

Paying the police more salary won't help. Did you ever see anyone who has enough. In other countries, the police are given a quota to meet. Not sure exactly what the story is here. The money from the fines must go somewhere.

Reading your story, you've got guts. I'd pay.

[zorro1]

Lets imagine that Thailand was like back home where there is a point system. Lets assume that this offence would push you over your point limit and result in a loss of licence for 3 months. would you pay the bribe or march your self down to the cop station?

[Ulysses G.]

Why imagine a bunch of nonsense. Thailand isn't like back home!

[onethailand]

in my view people would rather pay the copper directly for a couple of reasons:

1) They take your license and make it a relative pain in the arse to get it back and pay the fine to get it back.

- solution - let people hold their licenses and make it easier to pay their fines at non-police stations. Online, at ATM's at 7'11 Day/night payments. The technology and systems are already there. Won't be the panacea but it will make it easier for people who want to do the right thing and increase official revenues to the police - which can be accounted for. Ideally you'd like the coppers to get a pay rise out of it....

2) People are too complacent to pay and don't fear paying the copper. In my view, (As half a one.. ) thai people are incredibly scared of breaking even a simple rule or social norm - if it is enforced. Think abou it. They are happy enough to line up as robots on a bunch of things that authority tells them to, yet ingnore doing the 'right' thing when they don't have to. A few high profile busts of normal people paying off coppers will send the fear of god into a large proportion of people. ITV - back in the day when it was truely independent, started making all sorts of people uncomfortable when they started broadcasting motorists bribing coppers. The general feeling was 'am I on TV??'. People are easily shamed here and it doesn't take very much I think....

You forgot what I think is the most important reason nowadays:

3) Convenience. These days Thais are more in a hurry, especially in Bangkok. The modern world has caught up with them and they have less time and inclination to be bothered to show up at the police station. This is especially true for taxi drivers and people driving expensive cars - both favorite targets of the police.

[awakened]

When I travelled through eastern Europe, this was a common occurrence. I handled it in two ways. Either say you only have x amount of cash (whatever you think you can get away with) or demand to pay at the station. IMO In Thailand the sums are so small it isn't worth the hassle. I have a friend who flashes a Police Colonel's business card every time he's stopped. They wave him on without a word. If you can, find a connected Police friend.

In Albufeira, Portugal, a few years ago, the whole police dept was axed as they had been running a 'fines' scam on tourists for years. The problem was, the fines got ever higher and the dashboards bulging full of cash, serviced fine houses and for one sergeant, a new Porsche.

I don't complain here, in fact laugh to myself, since compared to Europe, the sums involved are a joke. My thai g/f pays the same, so I can't even whine about racism.

[markuk]

its not worth the hastle - just pay the fines and count yourself lucky - in other countries the penalty would be higher. Its just a fact of life living in Thailand the police are corrupt - they are paid very little so they look for all they can get. Sure dont pay him the cash get a ticket and go wait in the police station being messed about to pay it there - dont know about you but i would value my own time at more than 200 BHT

Do you think if Policemen have a better salary they stop to take bribes for everything??

ok if they had a better salary maybe less likely for bribes though this will take time to change.

And this justify policemen to be corrupted?

And what about thai people pay the bribes. Their salary is not small as well?

have you experienced the level of corruption in business - same as the police, if peoples lifestyles and income is better there will be less chance of corruption however it means a complete society change in thailands case.

And, yes, in other countries the tickets are much bigger. So better pay the smaller here. This is the attitude of some kind of falang that always say: wow, in my country is more expensive! So we can pay without problem.

i dont really care - i wouldnt pay if thai people didnt pay - its Thailand, and that means thai people - if the Thais want to change the country then they are the only ones who can - not us farangs. In all countries where i live i play by local rules and dont complain - if i dont like it i leave.

Edited July 22, 2008 by markuk

[clausewitz]

I just don't get it! What is the big deal? You do something wrong and pay a on the spot fine, just a few $.

No massive fine.

No points on your license.

No form filling.

No court appearance (for a more serious offence)

No police station visit.

No BS western bureaucracy.

Just get over it.

So true. I love paying the fine direct. These days I usually only pay 100 - because of my winning smile. My friend pays 60baht.

What a time and money saver the Thai way is.

[thaihome]

Thailand has point system

TH

[cudaproject]

I just don't get it! What is the big deal? You do something wrong and pay a on the spot fine, just a few $.

No massive fine.

No points on your license.

No form filling.

No court appearance (for a more serious offence)

No police station visit.

No BS western bureaucracy.

Just get over it.

I agree, it's brilliant over here.. the traffic policing.. ok, sometimes you might have to pay 200 Baht (3 pounds - cost of a pint of lager in UK) for something you haven't donw.. but most of the time, you get let off.. Before I left the UK, I got caught doing 33 mph in a 30 mph zone and got fined, ponts and all sorts. Over here: Got caught doing 140kmh on a road that definitely shouldn't have been that.. got pulled over, the copper says "I was driving in the far right hand lane and I should've been in the first lane - 200 Baht please" I said "with pleasure guvnor".. he didn't even mention the fact that I was driving like a lunatic...

Some people on this forum don't know how lucky they've got it and are just so interested in slagging this place off.. it's great!!! Love Thailand and love the corrupt police, you can get away with almost anything

[samran]

I agree, it's brilliant over here.. the traffic policing.. ok, sometimes you might have to pay 200 Baht (3 pounds - cost of a pint of lager in UK) for something you haven't donw.. but most of the time, you get let off.. Before I left the UK, I got caught doing 33 mph in a 30 mph zone and got fined, ponts and all sorts. Over here: Got caught doing 140kmh on a road that definitely shouldn't have been that.. got pulled over, the copper says "I was driving in the far right hand lane and I should've been in the first lane - 200 Baht please" I said "with pleasure guvnor".. he didn't even mention the fact that I was driving like a lunatic...

Some people on this forum don't know how lucky they've got it and are just so interested in slagging this place off.. it's great!!! Love Thailand and love the corrupt police, you can get away with almost anything

yeah great, so when you've crashed into me, injuring me, my wife and my 2 year old daughter - cause you were 'driving like a luntatic' do I celebrate the fact that dangerous drivers like you are allowed to ply the Thai highways and biways?

grow up, seriously.

[sykdevil]

i think maybe one of the reasons why he was leaning on you was to close the gap between you two so you can pass him the 200 baht without anyone from behind seeing...

[CelticBhoy]

Got caught doing 140kmh on a road that definitely shouldn't have been that.. got pulled over, the copper says "I was driving in the far right hand lane and I should've been in the first lane - 200 Baht please" I said "with pleasure guvnor".. he didn't even mention the fact that I was driving like a lunatic...

Some people on this forum don't know how lucky they've got it and are just so interested in slagging this place off.. it's great!!! Love Thailand and love the corrupt police, you can get away with almost anything

I hope to hel_l I don't meet you coming the other way.

[roygsd]

Sunday afternoon. Sri Nakharin Road. 30 or so police have set up a roadblock to haul in all the motorbikes that happen to be on the road.

I am confident as I pull up. Wearing a helmet, in the left lane, lights on, bike taxed, carrying licence and copy of registration, bike in good condition, number plate is standard, no customisation of the vehicle, within the speed limit. What can they possibly do me for?

Answer = illegal helmet. What? The tinting on the visor is too dark he tells me. (I bought the helmet 3 years ago. It is a standard Index, cost 1000 Baht with a tinted visor).

I smile and accept the officer's comments while handing him my licence and wait for the inevitable ticket. He tells me that the ticket has to be paid at Rama 4 as they are highway police. But I don't need to go there as he tells me I can pay him 200 Baht on the spot. I decline. He physically leans against me and asks me for cash now. I decline. He continues to lean heavily against me. I can't move away as I am sitting on the bike. His face is right in mine. He continues to demand cash now. He asked me for cash about 15 times leaning against me. It was intimidating. I had to keep an eye on my wallet as I was sure he was going to make a grab for it. This situation lasted for several minutes. Finally he issued a ticket but with the fine amount left blank. I thank him and drive away quickly.

What the helll was that about?

Bet the Policeman is thinking the same...............

[roygsd]

Actually the tinted visor is an offence, they stated a few months back they would now fine people for wearing them. They are also illegal in many western countries.

I don't doubt that the law exists somewhere. I did not know about it. Having used the helmet for 3 years, I was surprised to be fined for that but as I said I'm sure a law says something somewhere. It is also surprising that an 'illegal product' was on sale for so long with no info about it being illegal.

However, demanding cash repeatedly in an intimidating fashion is most certainly not a law and was illegal.

Hi,

Buy a new helmet and claim that it was the one you were wearing at the time you were stopped, or expect to pay a bit more than 1000 Baht at the station

Roy gsd

[PaulHamon]

In many countries around the world the there is a very good chance they would have taken you straight to the jail house and possibly roughed you up a bit. You are lucky to be in Thailand where that behavior by officials is no longer the norm.

And is just as many.... this shit would not happen.

The problem with Thai is they so apathetic, someone has to stand up and make change happen, otherwise women would not have a vote, we'd all still have slaves running around (or worse still be one) just to name a couple.

Or, I guess you can just wait until the wealthy decide it's good enough for the mid/low class and they can get it approved, ASAP.

[dhind1]

Unfortunately this kind of thing does happen, however it does not happen too often in my experience. Though I agree with you the tactics used on you were improper at a minimum.

I have been here for 10 years and have probably actually spent maybe 35 to 40% of those 10 years actually here and on the highway at some point. I have been "asked" to pay a fine maybe 3 times possibly as many as 4 times, I do not remember. However I have also been stopped once north of Chang Mai and the officer wanted to warn me about the side roads and that it was safer on the main highway. He said he did not want any $$$ as he did not want me to think all policeman were bad. I thanked him and drove on.

[eljeque]

I travel a lot within thailand and have come to take this as an occupational hazard, im not condoning it but i just pay up and sod of,. its nothing personal and if if they were paid decent wages they wouldnt have to do it,.the government seems to turn a blind eye to it so i do too,.

The ministers make more than decent wages and are corrupt. The police wages could be doubled over night, tripled, and nothing would change. Those who runt the police stations make millions and they have not stopped being corrupt, so there is not reason to believe that an increase in wages would lead to a reduction in corruption.

[DrUSA]

Sunday afternoon. Sri Nakharin Road. 30 or so police have set up a roadblock to haul in all the motorbikes that happen to be on the road.

I am confident as I pull up. Wearing a helmet, in the left lane, lights on, bike taxed, carrying licence and copy of registration, bike in good condition, number plate is standard, no customisation of the vehicle, within the speed limit. What can they possibly do me for?

Answer = illegal helmet. What? The tinting on the visor is too dark he tells me. (I bought the helmet 3 years ago. It is a standard Index, cost 1000 Baht with a tinted visor).

I smile and accept the officer's comments while handing him my licence and wait for the inevitable ticket. He tells me that the ticket has to be paid at Rama 4 as they are highway police. But I don't need to go there as he tells me I can pay him 200 Baht on the spot. I decline. He physically leans against me and asks me for cash now. I decline. He continues to lean heavily against me. I can't move away as I am sitting on the bike. His face is right in mine. He continues to demand cash now. He asked me for cash about 15 times leaning against me. It was intimidating. I had to keep an eye on my wallet as I was sure he was going to make a grab for it. This situation lasted for several minutes. Finally he issued a ticket but with the fine amount left blank. I thank him and drive away quickly. What the helll was that about?

when in bkk.. do as the bkk'ians do..

pay up and shut up

if not, go home.

[cophen]

In many countries around the world the there is a very good chance they would have taken you straight to the jail house and possibly roughed you up a bit. You are lucky to be in Thailand where that behavior by officials is no longer the norm.

And is just as many.... this shit would not happen.

The problem with Thai is they so apathetic, someone has to stand up and make change happen, otherwise women would not have a vote, we'd all still have slaves running around (or worse still be one) just to name a couple.

Or, I guess you can just wait until the wealthy decide it's good enough for the mid/low class and they can get it approved, ASAP.

And it's their country. If they wish to be apathetic - up to them. You're a guest here - you have no influence - you don't have the vote - you aren't a resident - It's not your country. When the Thais decide that it's time for a change they'll make that change. The one thing that is guaranteed (not just in Thailand but around the world) is that being lectured by foreigners is like trying to teach pigs to dance. It won't work and it pisses off the pigs.

[Chaimai]

And it's their country. If they wish to be apathetic - up to them. You're a guest here - you have no influence - you don't have the vote - you aren't a resident - It's not your country. When the Thais decide that it's time for a change they'll make that change. The one thing that is guaranteed (not just in Thailand but around the world) is that being lectured by foreigners is like trying to teach pigs to dance. It won't work and it pisses off the pigs.

Hmmm. It's not my country, so it's not my business - heard that one a few times.

Falang don't make the rules he just has to play by them - another one.

It is a dichotomy - on the one hand (as in England) Sikhs should be made to wear motor cycle helmets in preference to a head bandage - it is the law. On the other hand the boys in brown have no legal right to intimidate Briggsy - although the 'cash on the spot' payment is an accepted practice.

That does not make the policeman right, but Briggsy was not wrong to insist on a ticket.

Bit of a non-answer really - I shall now go and remove the splinters from my arse

[thaihome]

I wonder how many of the people going on about standing up for your rights, etc, have lived and worked in other developing countries? Once you have done that for a while a certain practicality of the facts of life sink in and you see how ridiculous such statement really are.

TH

[smileplur]

Seriously, this debate is one that cannot be won. Incredibly, I just read this entire thread. Yes, I drive a motorbike in Bangkok. My bike is legit in the wifes name. I do not have a Thai license. I also do not have any form of a license for a motorcycle. I have never been pulled over in Bangkok. While the wife has been driving, she has been stopped with me on the back. We have always been let go. However, if I were to be stopped, I would simply negotiate it down to 100 baht. I don't care if it goes in the pocket of the cops. I don't care where it goes. It is $3. Who really cares? Some call it corruption ... some call it tea money. To me, that is a price I find acceptable. The people I know here who drive illegally feel the same. They always cough up 100 baht and proceed on their merry way. They have always been stopped for some sort of infraction. The system works well for me!

[poshthai]

Well done briggsy,if more people did this i am sure the corrupt coppers would cease to do this.

[mgjackson69]

Briggsy was not wrong...a bit idealistic maybe...

I see it this way. I am not out to save the world or change this country. If I choose to live here I will play the game the way the rules are written...that does not mean what is written in some legal code somewhere, it means what happens in the real world every day.

I have been through enough stops (most on the motorcycle, a few in the truck) to know how to deal with it. If the nice officer says you did something wrong, and is going to write you a ticket, you are going to pay...more than if you paid on the spot, with the attendant loss if time, increased blood pressure, etc etc. The money is going out of my pocket anyway...where it goes is not my story, not my worry.

Would I do this the same way in USA? Of course not...but I am NOT in USA here. There I know exactly what my rights are, and how to deal with transgressions on the part of the officer. Here, no idea, and I do not want to learn through experience.

Briggsy, there is one detail you either did not include or I missed...did the officer keep your license?

I had a stop one day on Sukhumvit...I think I did *something* wrong, I am not sure what...the officer ran out of the police box opposite Soi 55 and hauled me down. He wrote me a ticket and sent me on my way with my license. I asked my wife later and she said, "He not keep license, do not pay." I figured what the hel_l, so I never paid it. I have since been "in contact" with the police a couple of times, one that certainly would have involved a "troll" for previous offenses or anything outstanding...if indeed they keep track of such things or have easy access to them...it has never shown up.

If he did not keep your license, I think there is a reasonably good chance that his copy of your ticket went to the garbage.