Entrance Charges To National Parks For Resident Farangs And Thais

[Tyke]

Hi,

I know this topic has been posted several times but I can't find it and anywhere.

What I am looking for is the regulation that states the charges for entrance to National parks is the same for resident farangs as it is for Thais.

The reason I need it is that today I went to a park near the Laos border in eastern Esan and was told to pay 200 baht while my Thai friend only had to pay 40 baht. I showed my 5 year Thai driving licence as proof or residency. We were both issued tickets and mine was for 'Foreigners'. I queried this with the ticket supplier and also a park adminitsrator and they both said the cheaper rates are for Thai nationals only and a resident farang is not entitled to this cheaper rate. I have always thought that I was entitled to this lower rate but now realise I don't have any idea where I got that info from.

I need to get a copy of the regulations (preferably in English and Thai) so I can carry a copy in my car and show it to the ticket office every time I go to a national park.

[JetsetBkk]

...What I am looking for is the regulation that states the charges for entrance to National parks is the same for resident farangs as it is for Thais....

No such regulation.

[bkkmick]

Driving licence or not you are a foreigner. Accept that. You were sold the correct ticket, like it or not (not in your case).

[Mossfinn]

was for 'Foreigners'.

You can't deny that you are a foreigner, if there are set down rules then clearly you have a right to use them, but having seen an excess of posts on here regarding double charging, I think you might have your work cut out.

Just as an aside, how long did this

I queried this with the ticket supplier and also a park adminitsrator

take, because even if you value your time in small beer, you have far exceeded the cost of the reduced fare anyway.

And I know there is double charging the World Over, so why all the complaints in Thailand.

I understand the principle, but it happens in many places, what I don't understand is the almost rabid defence cry of 'Why, why, oh why'.

Not labelling you in this criteria, because your post is quite level headed, just my point of view on the proceedings.

Moss

[sbk]

From the reports various people made here on TV, it sounds like another one of those regulations left to the discretion of the park ranger. So, if you get a nice one, you'll get the discount. If you get a stickler for the rules, you pay the full foreigner amount.

[Carib]

You are not a resident, you have a Thai driving liscence, and that sometimes does the trick..

[Mason45]

Wherever I go in Thailand and there's a two tiered price system, I simply refuse to pay, do a U turn and move on. This weekend I stayed at two different national parks in the Lopburi-Saraburi area, one was was pay by tent (70 baht) irrespective of how many people stayed and the other was pay by donation, the sites and toilets etc were very clean. It really gets to me the way that Thais think about us, I take care of my wife and her unmarried sister who has two kids and they still want to rip me off, I also pay tax on everything I buy in Thailand. I wonder how many times a farang is ripped off and sold a Thais ticket and the balance goes towards paying for the park rangers alcohol and tobbaco addiction.

[jumnien]

Part of the problem is that Thailand is one of the cheapest nice countries to stay in the world and consequently attracts some of the world's cheapest Westerners demanding to be housed and fed and entertained for the same price as a Thai labourer. There really is no solution but the realistic expectation that the Westerner's demands will occasionally be unmet and he will get frustrated and start crying like a small child.

[Shotime]

What is so wrong with double-pricing. I've seen a couple of topics about it. It's not unusual for prices to be higher for non-residents. I've been to other countries where, if you can show your a resident (not necessarily of the country. It can be for a certain area of the city you're in), you get a discount. As for food and other small time items, you're not talking about that much money. For 20 or 40 Baht, I get a kick out of their reaction to "ripping-off" a ferener.

I wonder if this is a positive or negative post.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Shotime

[chiangmaibruce]

wow, you are not getting much in the way of positive direct answers to your question are you?

in fact I think you are at least partly correct. There was a directive issued sometime in the last twelve months from some head honcho in BKK along the lines of what you are suggesting. I don't think it was in the form of a 'regulation' though, I think it was more a statement of intent. I would have to spend some time searching online to find the specifics. In the interim you might try searching the newspaper clippings forum on "entry charges" "national parks" "thailand" or similar search words, as well as an internet-wide google search.

[wangsuda]

{quote]The reason I need it is that today I went to a park near the Laos border in eastern Esan and was told to pay 200 baht while my Thai friend only had to pay 40 baht.The key word here is park. In my travels throughout North America, Europe, and Central America, I never was charged more to enter a park. In fact, some countries rule that as discriminatory practice. You want to go to Yosemite in America, you pay the park rate, regardless of residency. The problem the OP faced is that a park (and, I believe, most parks here are national) had a posted two-tier pricing system. We are not talking about private businesses. So, when a government declared that certain people pay more based on nationality, you need to wonder what the guidelines are. Who is and who isn't exempt. What happens if you look Asian. Things like this need to be addressed. The simplest solution would be for the Thai government to make everybody show their ID card or passport when entering a park. If you are foreign, you pay more. Simple. If the Tha government wants to make exceptions, then those exceptions need to be clearly posted.

[wangsuda]

What is so wrong with double-pricing.

Absolutely nothing. I would love to see special pricing at all national parks and sites throughout the world that highlight the higher price Thais need to pay to enter. Or, for that matter, the citizens f all nations that charge more for a foreigner to enter a national park or site. I can see it now:

Yosemite Park Entrance Fees:

Americans and Canadians: $10

Europeans (excluding the French): $15

Thai and French: $400

Please show proof of nationality at the gate.

Oh yeah, the height of civilization.

[chiangmaibruce]

OK take a look at this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Entrance-Fee...0&p=1677368

There was a new fee policy announced in about Nov 2007. It looks like the idea of having the same prices for all was just a consultant's recommendation in a report some years ago. No joy there.

[ade100]

This topic came up quite recently:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Tier-Double-...&hl=pricing

I think the conclusion was that while there is no legislation against double-pricing in Thailand, producing a Thai driving license, work permit or visa will often do the trick. I suspect being charming will also help.

[wxpwzrd]

Personally I think it is a result of foreigners bringing it on themselves. Historically, Europeans, Americans, etc. love to flaunt their wealth in other countries. So you reap what you sow.

[Tyke]

Well, it looks like I've been under the wrong impression about double pricing, thinking there was a reg or something that allowed resident's the same price as Thais, but seems I was wrong. I haven't been accepting this double pricing very well - not so much because there is such a system but because some park attendants refused even though I had a Thai driving licence. So I had better try to be a good boy in future.

I didn't want to get into the arguments about the rights and wrongs of the system or how cheap some people are for objecting to it - just hard evidence that residents are exempt. Thanks for the advice, anyway.

[ZZZ]

Yosemite Park Entrance fees:

Normal fee: $20

Other Passes

Yosemite Pass (annual pass): $40

America the Beautiful–National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Annual Pass: $80

This is an annual admission pass covering admission and standard amenity fees. This replaces the National Parks Pass and Golden Eagle Pass.

Access Pass: Free

This is a lifetime admission and discount pass for US citizens or permanent residents with permanent disabilities.

Senior Pass: $10

This is a lifetime admission and discount pass for US citizens or permanent residents who are age 62 or older.

As you can see there are several passes restricted to US citizens only.

The annual pass is a very common way to give the local residents a good discount.

[gregb]

I always have to chime into these discussions.

I get so sick and tired of hearing the farang apologists say that what Thailand is doing is equivalent to the rest of the world.

It is NOT! Thailand grants their discounts based on CITIZENSHIP! Not residency. That is VERY discriminatory, and all of who live here and are RESIDENTS have a right to complain. I work, pay my taxes, and in any western country would get the reduced resident's price.

The idea behind that law is that residents contribute to the tax base which funds the park or school, therefore they get the reduced price.

For private businesses, all of you are correct. They can discriminate all they want, and if you don't like it go somewhere else. However, for the national parks, what the government does is simply unacceptable, and complaining about it doesn't mean you are cheap or menial. It simply means you have an ingrained understanding of what is fair and acceptable.

Let me ask all you Thai government apologists this: if farang has permanent residency but not citizenship, are they considered a resident? Should they get the cheaper price? Justify your answer. Skin color is not an acceptable answer.

[gregb]

As you can see there are several passes restricted to US citizens only.

WRONG!

It is given to citizens OR PERMANENT RESIDENTS!

Citizenship ONLY is discriminatory.

Stop apologizing for the Thai government. What they do is wrong. End of story.

[ZZZ]

If you have proof of permanent Thai residency you will get in at Thai price just about everywhere.

A Thai drivers license or work permit does not make you a permanent resident in Thailand, but it will get you in at Thai price at most venues anyway.

[Tod Daniels]

Merely holding a thai driver's license is often times a crap shoot as far as the admission prices to national parks. Sometimes you get the thai price, other times you pay the foreign price. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the decision.

Conversely I have found speaking more than "two-word tourist thai" will help without a doubt. I've had gate keepers charge me the thai price after I've chatted with them a few minutes.

Oh the cruel injustice of it all, sometimes makes the mind wobble....

[Newbee]

If you have proof of permanent Thai residency you will get in at Thai price just about everywhere.

A Thai drivers license or work permit does not make you a permanent resident in Thailand, but it will get you in at Thai price at most venues anyway.

My experience has been different. A Thai drivers license / stay or work permit would get you in at a farang resident fee, which is lower than a tourist price but higher than a Thai one.

Example (just to give an idea of the magnitude, as I don't remember the exact numbers)

Dream world park : price per entry

tourist 400

farang resident 250

Thai 120

Edited July 20, 2008 by Newbee

[prakhonchai nick]

If you have proof of permanent Thai residency you will get in at Thai price just about everywhere.

I disagree. I have had Thai residency for 17 years now, and regularly, after attempting negotiation at various entry points, leave in disgust. Success rate about 60%. Failures at zoos, some national parks and historical sites, and Nong Nooch, . Never tried the other private operations, but understand they are in the main bastards! The negotiations, whether successful or not spoil a day out with the family and rejection causes the Thais embarrassment.

The Alien registration Booklet is stated by immigration to be the same as a Thai ID card. Maybe they understand this but nobody else does, In fact they have no idea what an Alien registration book is for.

An ID card, similar to a Thai ID card, should be issued to residents which would help . Don't forget Residents have had to pay enormous sums for their residency status (currently around 200K baht) and it is not unreasonable to expect something in return (other than just not having to do a visa run!) And I, along with many other foreign residents no doubt contribute far more in tax than the vast majority of Thais!

[prakhonchai nick]

If you have proof of permanent Thai residency you will get in at Thai price just about everywhere.

A Thai drivers license or work permit does not make you a permanent resident in Thailand, but it will get you in at Thai price at most venues anyway.

My experience has been different. A Thai drivers license / stay or work permit would get you in at a farang resident fee, which is lower than a tourist price but higher than a Thai one.

Example (just to give an idea of the magnitude, as I don't remember the exact numbers)

Dream world park : price per entry

tourist 400

farang resident 250

Thai 120

Now that's triple pricing. Never ever heard of that anywhere, nor read of it. This is a first!

[BSJ]

Here in Oz I have yet to see the same type of dual pricing applied. Sure there are pensioner discounts but they, the pensioners, as a group are on a limited income which is less than half the average wage.

I think the Thai system is a slap in the face of farang. We go there and pay pay pay all the time but we only take up same space on the planet as a Thai person.....well some farang may take up 50% more, but not double!

Edited July 20, 2008 by BSJ

[ZZZ]

If you have proof of permanent Thai residency you will get in at Thai price just about everywhere.

I disagree. I have had Thai residency for 17 years now, and regularly, after attempting negotiation at various entry points, leave in disgust. Success rate about 60%. Failures at zoos, some national parks and historical sites, and Nong Nooch, . Never tried the other private operations, but understand they are in the main bastards! The negotiations, whether successful or not spoil a day out with the family and rejection causes the Thais embarrassment.

The Alien registration Booklet is stated by immigration to be the same as a Thai ID card. Maybe they understand this but nobody else does, In fact they have no idea what an Alien registration book is for.

An ID card, similar to a Thai ID card, should be issued to residents which would help . Don't forget Residents have had to pay enormous sums for their residency status (currently around 200K baht) and it is not unreasonable to expect something in return (other than just not having to do a visa run!) And I, along with many other foreign residents no doubt contribute far more in tax than the vast majority of Thais!

I agree that someone with a recidency permit should get Thai price, but it seems that this may be a problem with people not understanding what an Alien registration booklet is, as you suggest an ID card could solve this.

In any case it's a silly discussion, personally I would not let my family and kids suffer because of a principle regarding a few dollars especially as it seems that it's not really a question of the amount just the difference.

[seagull]

As you can see there are several passes restricted to US citizens only.

WRONG!

It is given to citizens OR PERMANENT RESIDENTS!

Citizenship ONLY is discriminatory.

Stop apologizing for the Thai government. What they do is wrong. End of story.

And if you"re Thai citizen, do you still think it is "discriminatory" ? Or simply that's the benefits one gets out of citizenship ?

Would it help anyone if dual pricing is done away, but locals pay foreigners' price too ?

Foreigners here do have a choice. And I am not going to mention it here........as it has been said plenty.

[simon43]

What we need is feedback from 'farangs' who have gained Thai citizenship (Camerata?). Do you always get the Thai price when you show your Thai ID card?

Simon

[AsiaCheese]

From the reports various people made here on TV, it sounds like another one of those regulations left to the discretion of the park ranger. So, if you get a nice one, you'll get the discount. If you get a stickler for the rules, you pay the full foreigner amount.

Was asked by the ticket man at a Geysir park (en route to Pai / Mae Hong Son): "khun Thai?", whereupon I mumbled "sip percent krap" with a fat smile. Got the Thai rate...

[Freddie_fly]

Part of the problem is that Thailand is one of the cheapest nice countries to stay in the world and consequently attracts some of the world's cheapest Westerners demanding to be housed and fed and entertained for the same price as a Thai labourer. There really is no solution but the realistic expectation that the Westerner's demands will occasionally be unmet and he will get frustrated and start crying like a small child.

I think that is an incredibly simplistic reply and one that I find a little offensive. It is often the case that people make this kind of remark without any sort of data to back it up. Personally I am fully employed and paid very well working outside of the kingdom 6 months a year, All of my Friends here are (or would be considered) fairly affluent by the standards of their mother country. Part of the problem is that people come here and see some westerners who obviously are not well off and also see that some westerners complain and then lump almost everyone into the "whining cheap Charlie" bracket.

Regardless of the dozens of posts stating "other countries practice dual pricing", the fact is that here it is done soley by your ethnicity and as such is a racist practice. This sort of blanket overcharging would not be allowed in many western countries, as the bleeding heart Politically correct crowd, would be taking people to court over racist policies.

regards

Freddie