Entrance Charges To National Parks For Resident Farangs And Thais

[ZZZ]

Part of the problem is that Thailand is one of the cheapest nice countries to stay in the world and consequently attracts some of the world's cheapest Westerners demanding to be housed and fed and entertained for the same price as a Thai labourer. There really is no solution but the realistic expectation that the Westerner's demands will occasionally be unmet and he will get frustrated and start crying like a small child.

I think that is an incredibly simplistic reply and one that I find a little offensive. It is often the case that people make this kind of remark without any sort of data to back it up. Personally I am fully employed and paid very well working outside of the kingdom 6 months a year, All of my Friends here are (or would be considered) fairly affluent by the standards of their mother country. Part of the problem is that people come here and see some westerners who obviously are not well off and also see that some westerners complain and then lump almost everyone into the "whining cheap Charlie" bracket.

Regardless of the dozens of posts stating "other countries practice dual pricing", the fact is that here it is done soley by your ethnicity and as such is a racist practice. This sort of blanket overcharging would not be allowed in many western countries, as the bleeding heart Politically correct crowd, would be taking people to court over racist policies.

regards

Freddie

I find it incredibly simplistic to label an entire nation as racist without backing it up with any sort of data.

Get your facts right. The dual prizing in Thailand is based on citizenship. Any Thai citizen, weather he is of Indian, Khmer, Burmese, Chinese, Malay, Thai or farang origin, will pay the Thai price. To try and twist this to being racist is just wrong

[CWMcMurray]

Yosemite Park Entrance fees:

Normal fee: $20

Other Passes

Yosemite Pass (annual pass): $40

America the Beautiful–National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Annual Pass: $80

This is an annual admission pass covering admission and standard amenity fees. This replaces the National Parks Pass and Golden Eagle Pass.

Access Pass: Free

This is a lifetime admission and discount pass for US citizens or permanent residents with permanent disabilities.

Senior Pass: $10

This is a lifetime admission and discount pass for US citizens or permanent residents who are age 62 or older.

As you can see there are several passes restricted to US citizens only.

The annual pass is a very common way to give the local residents a good discount.

If you take a closer look at your own post, I think you will agree that it only re-enforces the posts from previous posters.

If you take a look at the rates you quoted above, there is only 1 normal pass, good for all nationalities. There is only one season pass, good for all nationalities.

This means that foreigners could buy the season pass for the same price as US citizens.

The only exceptions are for seniors and for the disabled and even these passes are not restricted to only US Citizens... it can also be purchased by permanent residents.

I would also bet that if any over 62 or permanently disabled people were able to show a valid US drivers license or non drivers ID, they would be able to get the US Permanant resident price.

I would venture even if you had PR in Thailand you would still face the higher price based on your skin Tone.

Edited July 21, 2008 by CWMcMurray

[punisher]

Part of the problem is that Thailand is one of the cheapest nice countries to stay in the world and consequently attracts some of the world's cheapest Westerners demanding to be housed and fed and entertained for the same price as a Thai labourer. There really is no solution but the realistic expectation that the Westerner's demands will occasionally be unmet and he will get frustrated and start crying like a small child.

You totally miss the point,it does not matter Thailand is cheap,many foreigner are living here and working here,they pay tax like thai people do,so it is just a ripp off,thais think all foreigner are rich people so they can ripp them off whereever they want,im german,what do u think if u go to the zoo in berlin,and they would hv a pricelist saying non germans pay 10times more than germans?u think thats the right thing?in europe we give discounts for groups,kids,older people,jobless and so on,but we dont give discounts because they are europeans,black,white or green people,i think many of thaivisa members stay to long in Thailand already and adopted the thai thinking,it's a good thing to understand the thais,but u should not forget what is right or wrong,it has nothing to do u r a cheap charly or not,and please don't come with"if u don't like it here,go home"

[cobalto]

My experience:

In Khao Yai, Phu Kradueng and Ancient City (Bangkok), foreigners holding a valid work permit pays the same as Thais. Sometimes just the Driver's License and a Business Card worked...

Is there anything wrong with them charging more Foreigners? I don't think so...

I recall an american friend that told me Disney Florida charges less for Florida residents... This things happen all over the world...

Cheers!

[Austeyr]

My experience:

I recall an american friend that told me Disney Florida charges less for Florida residents... This things happen all over the world...

Cheers!

Disney is a private enterprise we are talking govt policies.

I have lived in Thailand almost all of my adult life. I speak/read thai fluently and i work and pay taxes. Sometimes i cant be bothered going to places like temples and national parks cause i dont enjoy having to debate my status with every thai person standing at the fee's counter. Its very much a case of farang will always be a Farang, regardless.

I originate from Australia and i would hate to think the media backlash if you advertised "toronga park zoo" Aussies: 40 dollars, Asians: 400 dollars.

Someone mentioned that Farang only have themselves to blame for throwing money around. You should take a trip to Australia and see how much Asian tourists throw money around there. Casinos full of Thais and Chinese business men throwing down 2000 dollars a bet, staying in 1000 dollars a night hotels complete with high end escorts.

[ZZZ]

Part of the problem is that Thailand is one of the cheapest nice countries to stay in the world and consequently attracts some of the world's cheapest Westerners demanding to be housed and fed and entertained for the same price as a Thai labourer. There really is no solution but the realistic expectation that the Westerner's demands will occasionally be unmet and he will get frustrated and start crying like a small child.

You totally miss the point,it does not matter Thailand is cheap,many foreigner are living here and working here,they pay tax like thai people do,so it is just a ripp off,thais think all foreigner are rich people so they can ripp them off whereever they want,im german,what do u think if u go to the zoo in berlin,and they would hv a pricelist saying non germans pay 10times more than germans?u think thats the right thing?in europe we give discounts for groups,kids,older people,jobless and so on,but we dont give discounts because they are europeans,black,white or green people,i think many of thaivisa members stay to long in Thailand already and adopted the thai thinking,it's a good thing to understand the thais,but u should not forget what is right or wrong,it has nothing to do u r a cheap charly or not,and please don't come with"if u don't like it here,go home"

Dual pricing is just as common in tourist places in the west as in Thailand it's just done in different ways. Some offer a yearly pass slightly more expensive than a one time entry, a one time tourist would not buy this but the local resident would benefit greatly from this. Some offer discount cards for locals. Very often there will be no evidence of these discount schemes so the normal tourist will not be aware that dual pricing exists.

The reason for doing it this way is that in the west it is often impossible to tell if someone is a foreigner or not, there are not many places with national ID cards and you normally don't carry a passport around.

In Thailand it is done in a different way as it's fairy easy to tell if someone is a foreigner just by looking at them and if there is any doubt all Thai have to carry their ID card at all times so citizenship can always be easily verified.

In a way I can understand that some people confuses this with racism as in Thailand often tourists and locals happens to be different races, while in the west most are pretty much the same race.

The thing is that in both cases dual pricing is there to give the local population a discount to encourage them to visit the places as much as possible.

[CWMcMurray]

My experience:

Is there anything wrong with them charging more Foreigners? I don't think so...

I recall an american friend that told me Disney Florida charges less for Florida residents... This things happen all over the world...

Cheers!

Again you are missing the point... Florida resident (not race/nationality based, even illegal immigrants from Cuba qualify for this discount) anyone with a utility bill is a Florida Resident.

If all foreigners needed was a UBC, or telephone bill to prove residency I don't think they would be complaining.

[CWMcMurray]

Dual pricing is just as common in tourist places in the west as in Thailand it's just done in different ways. Some offer a yearly pass slightly more expensive than a one time entry, a one time tourist would not buy this but the local resident would benefit greatly from this. Some offer discount cards for locals. Very often there will be no evidence of these discount schemes so the normal tourist will not be aware that dual pricing exists.

The reason for doing it this way is that in the west it is often impossible to tell if someone is a foreigner or not, there are not many places with national ID cards and you normally don't carry a passport around.

In Thailand it is done in a different way as it's fairy easy to tell if someone is a foreigner just by looking at them and if there is any doubt all Thai have to carry their ID card at all times so citizenship can always be easily verified.

In a way I can understand that some people confuses this with racism as in Thailand often tourists and locals happens to be different races, while in the west most are pretty much the same race.

The thing is that in both cases dual pricing is there to give the local population a discount to encourage them to visit the places as much as possible.

But the key thing is that locals...all locals can take advantage of local prices. It is not based on race or citizenship. Would you consider a person of western nationality who has lived in Thailand for 20 years a local or a tourist?

Even tourists can purchase them, I knew someone who was spending a summer in the US by my Home and bought a season pass to Six Flags. They were not Americans, they were tourists who were only spending three months in the US...

One other point, a tourist going to the Grand Canyon from New York and from Thailand would face the same ticket prices and would also be able to buy the same season pass if they wanted to.

Edited July 21, 2008 by CWMcMurray

[CWMcMurray]

The thing is that in both cases dual pricing is there to give the local population a discount to encourage them to visit the places as much as possible.

One more post and then I will shut up and let you respond...

If the pupose of local pricing is to encourage them to visit as much as possible then local foreigners should also receive the same rates. This would encourage them to visit more frequently as well. As it stands now, the current policy actually discourages local foreigners from going to these places...

[CWMcMurray]

post='2096779' date='2008-07-20 08:13:45']Part of the problem is that Thailand is one of the cheapest nice countries to stay in the world and consequently attracts some of the world's cheapest Westerners demanding to be housed and fed and entertained for the same price as a Thai labourer.

Or pephaps the problem is the fact that these cheap indviduals are demanding to be entertained for the same price as a Thai Billionaire...

[niva103]

I don't undestand about all the fussing whining about foreigners having to pay a higher price. Of course, Thai people should get a lower price than foreigners. I mean the Thai people have been paying taxes to their government probably ever since their great great great grandfather excluding recent chinese ethnic Thais which in their case probably their grandfathers. So I mean yeah of course the government would give them a lower price because its "their" country's treasure. It's like if you're a watch seller. Are you going to sell a watch the same price you sold your customer to your brother? Of course, not. So stop whining and live with it. The Thai person that pays less than you has pay a lot more taxes to their government more than you ever will. Public universities all over the world has two prices resident and non-resident so I don't see why you guys are complaining about 300-400 baht whereas I have to pay $20,000+ more than US citizens to study at a US university.

[TheDon]

A bunch of tight asses I say.

[wangsuda]

The Thai person that pays less than you has pay a lot more taxes to their government more than you ever will.

Want to bet? Foreigners with proper paperwork pay tax. It's that simple. I pay more tak on what I earn than my wife's family pays on their entire farm products. Try again.

[barky]

No, "The Don', if you had been through all the hoops, waited a numbers of years, paid taxes and/or married to a Thai and then paid 100/200K baht for a residency, wouldn't you think it fair and reasonable to get charged Thai prices for everything regardless of whether you are a national or not? Fair and reasonable I say not a tight arse as you say. Otherwise why bother with obtaining residency? This kind of event tends to render the residency certification worthless.

[ZZZ]

Most in life is not fair, it's full of compromises. With rules and regulations there will always be a small minority that will draw the short stick, sometimes you sometimes someone else.

In this case we are talking about a few dollars every now and then and if you want to spoil a day for family and kids by electing to boycott venues because someone else get in at a few dollars less than you, it's up to you.

If you like the venue and the price ok for you enjoy it, what others pay makes no difference what so ever for your personal situation. No matter what you do or buy there will always be someone else getting a better deal for one reason or another. Life is to short to worry about things like this

[barky]

Although I agree with you on some points ZZZ, my real point was if you have paid the price and met the criteria of residency, why shouldn't you expect to be treated the same? If not what is the real benfit of residency?

[ZZZ]

Although I agree with you on some points ZZZ, my real point was if you have paid the price and met the criteria of residency, why shouldn't you expect to be treated the same? If not what is the real benefit of residency?

I agree that if you have a Thai permanent residency it would be reasonable that you should pay the Thai price.

The problem is that, as far as I know, the regulations (for national parks) say one price for Thai citizens and another for others, permanent residence permit does not make you a citizen.

What I think they should do is to have the same price for everyone at national parks as the foreign revenue makes a very small difference. The exception should be for parks like Koh Samet where the revenue from foreigners is substantial and should remain as it is. I would also like to see them use some of this revenue to clean up the place and put some pressure on the inhabitants to take care of it but that is a different story.

Still, quite often you get in at Thai price with a local drivers license but you never know, if it works it works if not just smile and pay, the poor sod in the booth did not make the rules and do not deserve any bollocking.

As for what the real benefit of residency is, you tell me

I'm pretty sure that most people don't go that way just to save a few dollars at national parks

Edited July 22, 2008 by ZZZ

[Steele404]

This is a well written argumentative article on double pricing in Thailand

http://www.thai-blogs.com/index.php/2007/0...charging?blog=8

Edited July 22, 2008 by Steele404

[gregb]

the poor sod in the booth did not make the rules and do not deserve any bollocking.

Interesting position. I would go 180 degrees the other way.

It's pretty obvious to me the sod in the booth has large discretion over what to charge, so it is his responsibility, and the best way to make sure he takes the issue more seriously is for every resident farang in Thailand to give him a flowing bucket of <deleted> every time he tries to charge the tourist price.

If enough people did this to make the sod's life miserable, he might bump the problem up to his superiors and we'd eventually get this problem addressed.

So I disagree with this completely. Make the biggest scene you can, and back up traffic for half an hour arguing with him until he shuts the window and stops talking with you. Then tell everyone (in Thai of course) waiting behind you how unfairly you are being treated and the how the sod in the booth is unreasonable.

An alternative position.

[CWMcMurray]

.... whereas I have to pay $20,000+ more than US citizens to study at a US university.

No you don't... You have to pay $20,000+ more than a resident and again if that is for a State University then US citizens from other state are paying it as well (out of State tuition). Also, you can become a resident and then you can pay 20,000 less (shouldn't be too hard there are millions of illegal immigrants that can qualify for resident rates).

The terms of resident and citizen are not interchangeable, you do not need to be a citizen to be a resident.

If you just want to say... Hey life isn't fair, then fine; but if you want to compare it to policies in the west and say its equally fair then that is a different issue.

(but if your best argument is that life isn't fair, your not going to convince anyone that you position is the correct one)

I realize that many things in life aren't fair and I am honestly ok with that. I am just not ok with being told that something is fair when it isn't.

I am continuing to post on this topic because I think many of the arguments that are being given are faulty and the comparisons being used are not accurate, not because of the additional 200 or 300 baht. I am sill waiting for someone to convince me that I am wrong...

Edited July 22, 2008 by CWMcMurray

[tartempion]

Everglades National park: 10 USD for 1 ticket good for 1 car 1 week entries regardless of number of passengers (Thais would load 15 people in there)

Compare that to the 400B per foreigner at LOS parks. And Oh, compare the park facilities....but I did NOT show my French passport

[MengWan]

Part of the problem is that Thailand is one of the cheapest nice countries to stay in the world and consequently attracts some of the world's cheapest Westerners demanding to be housed and fed and entertained for the same price as a Thai labourer. There really is no solution but the realistic expectation that the Westerner's demands will occasionally be unmet and he will get frustrated and start crying like a small child.

How do you know how much I pay my rent of my food ?

Do you think they should ask for your rent and food bills at the entrance of NPs ?

I am no "small child", and I never go anywhere where there's double pricing !

And I will forever think that it is shameful to ask for double-pricing, especially when someone tried to charge as farangs the (thaï) children I wanted to bring to visit a zoo ...

[niva103]

The Thai person that pays less than you has pay a lot more taxes to their government more than you ever will.

Want to bet? Foreigners with proper paperwork pay tax. It's that simple. I pay more tak on what I earn than my wife's family pays on their entire farm products. Try again.

Yes, sure I can bet with you. My family owns a chain of department stores in Thailand which our grandfather started. I think my family pays "a lot" more taxes than you. I don't whine when I have to pay $30k more than the average US citizen for college education.

Edited July 23, 2008 by niva103

[wangsuda]

The Thai person that pays less than you has pay a lot more taxes to their government more than you ever will.

Want to bet? Foreigners with proper paperwork pay tax. It's that simple. I pay more tak on what I earn than my wife's family pays on their entire farm products. Try again.

Yes, sure I can bet with you. My family owns a chain of department stores in Thailand which our grandfather started. I think my family pays "a lot" more taxes than you. I don't whine when I have to pay $30k more than the average US citizen for college education.

Actually, America and Thailand are similar on this - when you enter a country for educational purposes ONLY, you obtain an educational visa. You are not allowed to work on that visa. And yes, you pay more. Now, compare like objects - such as what the OP mentioned (which was/is national pars). And please, understand the following:

1. To be a resident of the US, all you need is to show some sort of proof of address (such as a utility bill, or a state ID card). You don't need to pay thousands of dollars for the dubious privilege of residency (like in Thailand). Residency in the US has NOTHING to do with citizenship and ALL to do with where you live.

2. NOWHERE in the US are national parks or other government-funded sites dual charging based on CITIZENSHIP. NOWHERE. Get it? Yes, private businesses do offer RESIDENT discouts, but it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with your citizenship of color of your skin.

Now, do YOU get the point? Great, you pay taxes. SO do I. I contribute to Thai society through those taxes I pay. I also contribute through my salary being spent here, stimulating the local economy. I also contribute by making sure at least four Thai citizens have a job, since it takes four to seven Thais employed by my company in order for me to have a work permit. Now, with all that I contribute, is it wrong for me to ask that I be given a fair shake when it comes to entering government sites? Or does my citizenship and color of my skin make me less of a person and more of an ATM?

[wangsuda]

^BTW - I was talking about the amount of tax paid personally. How much to you pay? Not your family. And f taxation here is anything like in America, the maids you employ to clean your stores probably pay more tax than your family business.

[tartempion]

consider sending your children to Leuven/Louvain, Belgium.

When I was a kid we had American students staying at our house studying for doctor (medical), my dad was medical professor at that university.

I understand it was cheaper for Americans to come to study at my home town than pay tuition at USA universities, they definitely came from lower social classes and benefited from financial help (bourse d'etudes) Not sure who granted the funds though (USA or Belgium) But since your family obviously makes a lot of money I doubt your children would qualify for financial help

My son came to Bangkok to attend MBA at Siam uni, he paid 400K baht tuition fee. Maybe you can tell us how much a Thai national would pay?

Edited July 23, 2008 by tartempion

[ZZZ]

To compare US national parks with national parks in Thailand is like comparing apples with bananas.

Most parks in US probably have 99% US visitors so a dual scheme based on citizenship would make no sense at all, it would probably be more costly to administer than what they would gain on it. That is why they base their disguised discount schemes for local residents with discount coupons or yearly/life discount cards.

Parks in Thailand such as Koh Samet rely mainly on foreign visitors and the amount they take in from them make a big difference in the total revenue.

It may not be fair, there are Thai millionaires and farangs living on a shoestring, but it's a very easy to run system as all Thais have a Thai ID card.

[Tyke]

To compare US national parks with national parks in Thailand is like comparing apples with bananas.

Most parks in US probably have 99% US visitors so a dual scheme based on citizenship would make no sense at all, it would probably be more costly to administer than what they would gain on it. That is why they base their disguised discount schemes for local residents with discount coupons or yearly/life discount cards.

Parks in Thailand such as Koh Samet rely mainly on foreign visitors and the amount they take in from them make a big difference in the total revenue.

It may not be fair, there are Thai millionaires and farangs living on a shoestring, but it's a very easy to run system as all Thais have a Thai ID card.

I don't agree at all that the main punters for most National Parks in Thailand are foreign tourists. I've been to many around Thailand, and the main customers are Thai - especially in Thai holiday periods. Farangs are always in the tiny majority. The extra cash given by foreigner prices are relatively small compared to that from Thais. The park attendants also never seem to ask for proof of citizenship - so asians that look like Thais will get in at the Thai rate, like I've seen in India, for example.

[clausewitz]

Let's start a topic called "The biggest whiners on Thai visa?"

[ZZZ]

To compare US national parks with national parks in Thailand is like comparing apples with bananas.

Most parks in US probably have 99% US visitors so a dual scheme based on citizenship would make no sense at all, it would probably be more costly to administer than what they would gain on it. That is why they base their disguised discount schemes for local residents with discount coupons or yearly/life discount cards.

Parks in Thailand such as Koh Samet rely mainly on foreign visitors and the amount they take in from them make a big difference in the total revenue.

It may not be fair, there are Thai millionaires and farangs living on a shoestring, but it's a very easy to run system as all Thais have a Thai ID card.

I don't agree at all that the main punters for most National Parks in Thailand are foreign tourists. I've been to many around Thailand, and the main customers are Thai - especially in Thai holiday periods. Farangs are always in the tiny majority. The extra cash given by foreigner prices are relatively small compared to that from Thais. The park attendants also never seem to ask for proof of citizenship - so asians that look like Thais will get in at the Thai rate, like I've seen in India, for example.

If you read my post you will see that I said "Parks in Thailand such as Koh Samet". If you go to Koh Samet you will see that the vast majority of visitors are foreign, same for many of the island parks down south.

I doubt very much that Thais will get in at Thai rates in India

Edited July 23, 2008 by ZZZ