Selling A House In Pattaya

[LtCol]

Wheeewww!

We are buyers coming in to Pattaya & must admit the more research & visits to Real Estate Agents webs we are becoming a little anxious about purchasing a House , whereas up until a week or so ago we were confident that it should be OK!.

As we are both Aussie Farang & are retiring it doesn't concern us about re-selling , unless it is (hopefully at least a good 15 - 20years ) down the track.

We are looking in the 8 - 10 mil range as we want a large property , as we have a large extended family that will visit in dribs & drabs while we live in Pattaya.

But , do we rent or buy ????? now that is my question

This thread has totally got me confused now, although we will be in Pattaya for an extended stay late Nov through to Jan to look & see. The downturn in Property seems to be worlwide , check some house prices in Las Vegas & Palm Springs USA & you will be amazed.

The advice around is so conflicting what seemed simple has become very confusing . Hopefully, if October is decision time & we don't arrive til late November the picture may have cleared a little or remain as clear as Mud.????????????????????

[Chaimai]

David,

thanks for your post. One from the pack is better than none at all, I suppose. We have an over supply of houses, an over supply of developers and an over supply of estate agents it seems. NO real soultion, though

Hear, hear. I would also thank David for his informative contribution. I hope things are genuinely beginning to pick up, but I also fear the over-supply and (continuing) over-development.

[dsfbrit]

David from East Coast Real Estate , thanks for the input.

Mind you, relating to your comment 'Regarding the Central Park House.... Difficult to know what to say really. I think we may even be the agency that listed the home!! Sorry if that's the case'

Why not contact the OP, go and see his house and then tell him and us what you think its worth, why its not selling and what he should do to sell it?

Good PR for your company and I would be interested for sure.

Come to think of it - and I don't wish to sound rude - but if this is one of your listings, shouldn't you be doing that anyway .

From your reply, you seem to suggest that if he reduces the price to 20 per cent less than a new build he has a decent chance of a sale in the near future. Is that correct???

I don't know that is the case. As I said before, I 'own' a house through the compnay route and I think there are many Farangs who would have bought a few years ago, but who would not buy a house with land nowadays at ANY price.

Too risky.

You say you sold some houses recently, 5 if I recall, was that a lease, Usufruct, company or some other method.

Thanks for the feedback

Edited July 31, 2008 by dsfbrit

[whatsoever]

3/4 of a bottle of wine so the tongue loosens The market in Pattaya is totaly false! loads of Aussie/Canadian/European con-men breaking ground and taking deposits - and more. Come on just look at the guys fronting these projects Have they been expeled from Benidorm?

If 20% of the current ongoing projects complete then Pattaya becomes a permanent traffic jam. Give it 12 months and you will get a decent house in the UK for 100k (stg). Or a piece of sh-te in Pattaya for 6.5 mil bht.

Wakey wakey - punters

[dsfbrit]

3/4 of a bottle of wine so the tongue loosens The market in Pattaya is totaly false! loads of Aussie/Canadian/European con-men breaking ground and taking deposits - and more. Come on just look at the guys fronting these projects Have they been expeled from Benidorm?

If 20% of the current ongoing projects complete then Pattaya becomes a permanent traffic jam. Give it 12 months and you will get a decent house in the UK for 100k (stg). Or a piece of sh-te in Pattaya for 6.5 mil bht.

Wakey wakey - punters

The trouble with this Thesis, is that many of us don't want to live in a house in the UK - its why we moved to Thailand

I got my piece of sh-te outside Pattaya, but still in the sun and with a nice big garden, for around 80,000 pounds - cheaper than the UK and no Council Tax, Gas Bills and the rest of the high cost of living I was eager to get away from.

So enjoy the rest of the wine

[Chaimai]

I got my piece of sh-te outside Pattaya, but still in the sun and with a nice big garden, for around 80,000 pounds - cheaper than the UK and no Council Tax, Gas Bills and the rest of the high cost of living I was eager to get away from.

and that house would be in your name ??

[Eastcoast]

I think most of you guys out there know the true situation better than most of the real estate agencies in town. For sure there is a big over build problem. Or on reflection a lot of people building the wrong properties in the wrong location. I'm sure many people just build and assume people will come no matter what the property looks like or is priced at... The vast majority of buyers are much better informed than they ever were years ago. The mug a minute theory for Pattaya is just not the truth anymore in the real estate scene. I hope in a way companies such as East Coast have helped educate purchasers over the years and are in someway responsible for the better informed purchasers we see these days.

Great post dsfbrit. I was hoping that the op would contribute through this medium. I listed my name and company so if it was us he would know. I am more than will to comunicate in this public forum. I will pm him as well. I suppose what I would do personally is try and rent the property for 1-2 years and then try the sales route again. If he really needs to sell right now I feel that the best he could do is match current developer price but then he would obviously lose money on commissions, land office fees etc. If construction prices continue to rise at the present rate it may not be so long before he will suddenly start looking better value for money. The big thing on his side is that his home and village are complete. I feel that with the amount of properties being built, many of the newer developments will struggle and very soon people may not gamble on buying off plan homes as they could get stuck in the middle of a building site for years with slow sales.

For purchasers I always suggest buying in unique developments, stay away from developments with numbers in the name and remember location is key. Never purchase unless you are 100% sure and never buy on impulse. Regarding the buying method, most people are either buying in Thai partners name and leasing back or under company name.

Thanks,

David

[redman]

I think most of you guys out there know the true situation better than most of the real estate agencies in town. For sure there is a big over build problem. Or on reflection a lot of people building the wrong properties in the wrong location. I'm sure many people just build and assume people will come no matter what the property looks like or is priced at... The vast majority of buyers are much better informed than they ever were years ago. The mug a minute theory for Pattaya is just not the truth anymore in the real estate scene. I hope in a way companies such as East Coast have helped educate purchasers over the years and are in someway responsible for the better informed purchasers we see these days.

Great post dsfbrit. I was hoping that the op would contribute through this medium. I listed my name and company so if it was us he would know. I am more than will to comunicate in this public forum. I will pm him as well. I suppose what I would do personally is try and rent the property for 1-2 years and then try the sales route again. If he really needs to sell right now I feel that the best he could do is match current developer price but then he would obviously lose money on commissions, land office fees etc. If construction prices continue to rise at the present rate it may not be so long before he will suddenly start looking better value for money. The big thing on his side is that his home and village are complete. I feel that with the amount of properties being built, many of the newer developments will struggle and very soon people may not gamble on buying off plan homes as they could get stuck in the middle of a building site for years with slow sales.

For purchasers I always suggest buying in unique developments, stay away from developments with numbers in the name and remember location is key. Never purchase unless you are 100% sure and never buy on impulse. Regarding the buying method, most people are either buying in Thai partners name and leasing back or under company name.

Thanks,

David

David,

your honest answer to the question is very refreshing. You may be doing your fellow estate agents a great disservice and I hope the charlatans amongst them, (and there are a few) do not take ill with your comments. Very unlikely I would require the services of an agent, but please be assured that I would look favourably on your company.

[Lazy Sod]

I talked to David a few years ago when I was considering buying one of their listed houses in Pattaya. He struck me as being honest, knowledgeable and trustworthy, with no hard sell. Just my impression after a 10 minute chat with him.

[saroq]

Yes I wonder what made zorro so mad too. Your post seemed reasonable to me.

On an other note... does anyone have experience in renting out property in Pattaya? With prices being so low I am considering buying but wonder if finding tenants is as difficult as fining buyers?

[Eastcoast]

Finding tenants is easy but sadly too many properties are over priced. If you are realistic then the properties are filled quickly and generally for a long time. The worrying thing for me as an agent is the rise in price for the higher end buildings. No idea who can purchase these units and expect good rental returns. Best deals at the moment are the older units. You can still buy units in buildings such as View Talay 1 for under 1,000,000 baht ready to rent. A reasonable rent of 8-10,000 baht is very easy to achieve. There are other examples just search around and don't be confused by what people ask for rents.... figure out what they actually get and the term of occupancy.

[redman]

Yes I wonder what made zorro so mad too. Your post seemed reasonable to me.

On an other note... does anyone have experience in renting out property in Pattaya? With prices being so low I am considering buying but wonder if finding tenants is as difficult as fining buyers?

saroq,

Zorro's comments were unfortunate and ill meant, but never mind. I am sure he feels better for it.

A good indicator of the rental market is in post #10. Drive around as many villages as you can, you will see that there are an amazing amount of houses for sale or rent. Some places are almost empty, just signs for sale or rent. We found one we fancied, called the lady who owned the house(lives up North) and she accepted an offer to rent right away. She has been paying mortgage on the house for 2 years with no return. She has offered to sell it to us after one year and will take the first year's rent off the price. So the market in houses is not exactly grand.

The house rental market is not high season or low season driven, but maybe the condo market may be affected by it somewhat, being as they are all in or near the "entertainment and beach districts", which is where they will always be. People buy there because of the beach and nightlife, so rentals may be better there. No idea if you will recoup a decent return, as we said before, might be better looking at the whole condo situation first. Management, committees, enhance electricity payments etc. etc. etc.

[dsfbrit]

Wheeewww!

We are buyers coming in to Pattaya & must admit the more research & visits to Real Estate Agents webs we are becoming a little anxious about purchasing a House , whereas up until a week or so ago we were confident that it should be OK!.

As we are both Aussie Farang & are retiring it doesn't concern us about re-selling , unless it is (hopefully at least a good 15 - 20years ) down the track.

We are looking in the 8 - 10 mil range as we want a large property , as we have a large extended family that will visit in dribs & drabs while we live in Pattaya.

But , do we rent or buy ????? now that is my question

This thread has totally got me confused now, although we will be in Pattaya for an extended stay late Nov through to Jan to look & see. The downturn in Property seems to be worlwide , check some house prices in Las Vegas & Palm Springs USA & you will be amazed.

The advice around is so conflicting what seemed simple has become very confusing . Hopefully, if October is decision time & we don't arrive til late November the picture may have cleared a little or remain as clear as Mud.????????????????????

Welcome to Thailand - you will love it here I am sure - I retired here 4 years ago at the ripe old age of 50 and have not regretted my decision at all.

However, if I had my time again, I would not have bought a house straight away. I would have rented a house ( for a year?), before I bought.

This would have enabled me a chance to really understand the situation relating to buying land and property over here. You would be able to look at lots and lots and lots... of properties and areas. You could also visit the Expat clubs etc... and ask about people's experiences.

Good Luck

[dsfbrit]

I got my piece of sh-te outside Pattaya, but still in the sun and with a nice big garden, for around 80,000 pounds - cheaper than the UK and no Council Tax, Gas Bills and the rest of the high cost of living I was eager to get away from.

and that house would be in your name ??

No - at the moment its in the company name. I have a Thai wife and I am seriously considering putting it is my wifes name via a Usufruct. Land in her name, House in my name.

I am still not decided though. I am only considering this now, as if I were to do it before next May - then the 1 year amnesty on the transfer taxes would still be in force - so it would be a lot cheaper.

The thing that puts me off about it not being in the company name, is that although I have no intention of selling, the thought I have to live here the rest of my life and cannot sell to move elsewhere - is a horrible thought. I am 'only' 54 and it seems like I would be waiting to die.

[dsfbrit]

David From East Coast, thanks again for some honest feedback - useful thread this.

I was a little surprised that the people who bought from you are still choosing the company route.

I hope the OP does get in touch with you.

I don't suppose you will be prepared to answer this - sensitive information and all that - but the OP asked specifically if Estate Agents actually had buyers on their books. Would you be prepared to say just how many buyers for houses you currently have on your books???

Edited August 1, 2008 by dsfbrit

[Eastcoast]

David From East Coast, thanks again for some honest feedback - useful thread this.

I was a little surprised that the people who bought from you are still choosing the company route.

I hope the OP does get in touch with you.

I don't suppose you will be prepared to answer this - sensitive information and all that - but the OP asked specifically if Estate Agents actually had buyers on their books. Would you be prepared to say just how many buyers for houses you currently have on your books???

I don't think it sensitive at all. We have almost no 'buyers on our books for houses'. I'm not sure we ever have had? In general we will have contact with a purchaser and start to view suitable properties immediately. They decide to buy if they feel they have found the right property for them and feel comfortable with ownership methods etc. Most people that are serious purchasers only want to buy 1 property for their own residential use. Once they have decided to buy or not.... it is a quick process. Most people can tell after a decent viewing appointment whether purchasing a house is the right route for them.

I guess the leads generated through the internet are slightly different. We may have contact with prospective purchasers 1-2 months before their arrival and send them details, pictures etc of hopefully suitable properties. If I count that into the question we may have anythging from 20-30 new buyers in hand per month.

In all honesty though, when I started East Coast around 10 years ago 60% of our purchasers bought houses against condos. I would think over the last 2 years the ratio is more like 80% condos, 20% houses....... Not an easy time for the home owners. Embarrasing time for the real estate agents.

David

[Digger]

David From East Coast, thanks again for some honest feedback - useful thread this.

I was a little surprised that the people who bought from you are still choosing the company route.

I hope the OP does get in touch with you.

I don't suppose you will be prepared to answer this - sensitive information and all that - but the OP asked specifically if Estate Agents actually had buyers on their books. Would you be prepared to say just how many buyers for houses you currently have on your books???

I don't think it sensitive at all. We have almost no 'buyers on our books for houses'. I'm not sure we ever have had? In general we will have contact with a purchaser and start to view suitable properties immediately. They decide to buy if they feel they have found the right property for them and feel comfortable with ownership methods etc. Most people that are serious purchasers only want to buy 1 property for their own residential use. Once they have decided to buy or not.... it is a quick process. Most people can tell after a decent viewing appointment whether purchasing a house is the right route for them.

I guess the leads generated through the internet are slightly different. We may have contact with prospective purchasers 1-2 months before their arrival and send them details, pictures etc of hopefully suitable properties. If I count that into the question we may have anythging from 20-30 new buyers in hand per month.

In all honesty though, when I started East Coast around 10 years ago 60% of our purchasers bought houses against condos. I would think over the last 2 years the ratio is more like 80% condos, 20% houses....... Not an easy time for the home owners. Embarrasing time for the real estate agents.

David

I dont think any savvy buyer has anything to be concerned with - I dont know of any house buyers who for example bought like me say 6 years ago around Maprachan who regret it. I looked at condos in my own name and the relative costs then and looked at houses at relative costs - I decided to go for a house and have no regrets. Had I been looking today, I would even more firmly edge toward a house - the differences in pricing are vast, and certainly way way more than when I was looking. I would hazzard a guess your looking at somewhere around 20-30,000b Sq m for a house + cost of land versus up to 100,000b for SQ M in a condo. My simple maths tell me I can get a place 4 times bigger or same size at 25% of the cost of a condo. Really depends on what you want but there are some good developers out there and they seem to be continually full. Poor villages do poorly, well maintained villages do well is my take on it. Same for the rental market - the guy with that Delibean place out near Horseshoe Point seems to be doing alright in terms of rentals and many of the villages around there all look good even 5 years after being built, albeit some of the look horrible already but its easy to tell which ones are all empty.

leasing land is the way I would go these days and basically tell the owner, let me rent this land for a peppercorn rent and in 30 years, the whole house goes to your kids. I would simply calculate it on the basis of 30 years cost of building the house divided back into the cost of the house. So for example, if your house cost 5,000,000b all in, divided in 360 months = 13,000b month. Thats the cost of living somewhere - company fees are only going to keep heading upwards hence I would do things differently this time around - I suspect the problem is that most estate agents and buyers have not worked out HOW to portray this effectively, hence the market has stagnated. Personally I cant see the value system changing for Farang, so your left with do you BUY a condo in your own name or essentially pay a much reduced up front 'rental' fee to live in a house for 30 years. That would suit my own circumstances but not everyone would be the same - as it is my house in Pattaya costs relatively way less than my condo in BKK and is about 8 times larger. I know where I much prefer to spend weekends.

[prefabs]

the agents in Pattaya are well matched for their clients. same types. Perfect.

Another absurd flamer who hides behind the anonymity of a forum to spout his rubbish. Feel better now, o little one?

[dsfbrit]

Personally I cant see the value system changing for Farang, so your left with do you BUY a condo in your own name or essentially pay a much reduced up front 'rental' fee to live in a house for 30 years. That would suit my own circumstances but not everyone would be the same - as it is my house in Pattaya costs relatively way less than my condo in BKK and is about 8 times larger. I know where I much prefer to spend weekends.

So this is a weekend 'getaway' place. Not really the same thing as people in my situation. The thought of having a 30 year lease on my only property and having to live here another 30 years in the same house - is quite daunting. Mind you, I notice you have 30 years as 360 months in your calculation - now if 30 years were that length of time - it would not seem so daunting at all.

Edited August 2, 2008 by dsfbrit

[dsfbrit]

the agents in Pattaya are well matched for their clients. same types. Perfect.

Another absurd flamer who hides behind the anonymity of a forum to spout his rubbish. Feel better now, o little one?

Odd, especially as the Real Estate Agent here has been helpful - mind you alive555 may be suggesting that we are all great decent people here in Pattaya and 'well matched' in a positive way Off topic - but I still cannot find the Riverside - is it betwen the Sukhumvit and the sea or on the other side?

[dsfbrit]

So for example, if your house cost 5,000,000b all in, divided in 360 months = 13,000b month. Thats the cost of living somewhere

I would say that if you are going to make this calculation, you need to include the money you are 'losing' by not being able to invest it. Assuming you can achieve an average of 5 percent per year on 5,000,000 Baht you would be losing at least 250,000 baht a year - more if you consider the true case which would include compound interest.

I know you cannot get 5 per cent in Thailand, but in the UK its quite achievable and more than 5 per cent would be a realistic expectation long term.

So your calculation would need to be increased by 250,000/12 months = 21,000 baht

So 33,000 baht a month for a leased weekender is not so attractive to me personally.

Off topic I know, but I have been thinking a lot about my situation recently and this thread seems to be tackling a lot of the issues personal to me.

Edited August 2, 2008 by dsfbrit

[boogie]

Mind you, I notice you have 30 years as 360 months in your calculation - now if 30 years were that length of time - it would not seem so daunting at all.

How many months make 30yrs by your calculation then ?

[Naam]

Mind you, I notice you have 30 years as 360 months in your calculation - now if 30 years were that length of time - it would not seem so daunting at all.

How many months make 30yrs by your calculation then ?

perhaps 359.999999 months?

[dsfbrit]

Mind you, I notice you have 30 years as 360 months in your calculation - now if 30 years were that length of time - it would not seem so daunting at all.

How many months make 30yrs by your calculation then ?

perhaps 359.999999 months?

I am sorry - you are absolutely right - and I am wrong Good heavens is that all it is - when I saw it I thought it was just too short a time and did not even make the mental calculation.

It doesn't seem very long does it. I had better start living life a bit faster

Edited August 2, 2008 by dsfbrit

[prefabs]

the agents in Pattaya are well matched for their clients. same types. Perfect.

Another absurd flamer who hides behind the anonymity of a forum to spout his rubbish. Feel better now, o little one?

Odd, especially as the Real Estate Agent here has been helpful - mind you alive555 may be suggesting that we are all great decent people here in Pattaya and 'well matched' in a positive way Off topic - but I still cannot find the Riverside - is it betwen the Sukhumvit and the sea or on the other side?

Found out it is now called TNS, go inland from the main road at a footbridge, over the rail line and turn right past the container base and turn right about a mile further on

[LennyW]

I got my piece of sh-te outside Pattaya, but still in the sun and with a nice big garden, for around 80,000 pounds - cheaper than the UK and no Council Tax, Gas Bills and the rest of the high cost of living I was eager to get away from.

and that house would be in your name ??

No - at the moment its in the company name. I have a Thai wife and I am seriously considering putting it is my wifes name via a Usufruct. Land in her name, House in my name.

I am still not decided though. I am only considering this now,

[b]as if I were to do it before next May - then the 1 year amnesty on the transfer taxes would still be in force[/b]

- so it would be a lot cheaper.

The thing that puts me off about it not being in the company name, is that although I have no intention of selling, the thought I have to live here the rest of my life and cannot sell to move elsewhere - is a horrible thought. I am 'only' 54 and it seems like I would be waiting to die.

Best you check on that date as i believe it is valid until 28th March 2009, wheather it will be extended or not is anybodys guess.

[jackyseymour]

I got my piece of sh-te outside Pattaya, but still in the sun and with a nice big garden, for around 80,000 pounds - cheaper than the UK and no Council Tax, Gas Bills and the rest of the high cost of living I was eager to get away from.

and that house would be in your name ??

No - at the moment its in the company name. I have a Thai wife and I am seriously considering putting it is my wifes name via a Usufruct. Land in her name, House in my name.

I am still not decided though. I am only considering this now,

[b]as if I were to do it before next May - then the 1 year amnesty on the transfer taxes would still be in force[/b]

- so it would be a lot cheaper.

The thing that puts me off about it not being in the company name, is that although I have no intention of selling, the thought I have to live here the rest of my life and cannot sell to move elsewhere - is a horrible thought. I am 'only' 54 and it seems like I would be waiting to die.

Best you check on that date as i believe it is valid until 28th March 2009, wheather it will be extended or not is anybodys guess.

I'm not sure I understand this post - why would you not be able to sell the house if it was 'not in the company name'? You could sell it whatever name it's in surely? Your wife being willing, of course.

And the 'amnesty' on transfer tax - I thought the tax had been to lowered to 2%? An amnesty suggests it's tax free?

[dsfbrit]

I got my piece of sh-te outside Pattaya, but still in the sun and with a nice big garden, for around 80,000 pounds - cheaper than the UK and no Council Tax, Gas Bills and the rest of the high cost of living I was eager to get away from.

and that house would be in your name ??

No - at the moment its in the company name. I have a Thai wife and I am seriously considering putting it is my wifes name via a Usufruct. Land in her name, House in my name.

I am still not decided though. I am only considering this now,

[b]as if I were to do it before next May - then the 1 year amnesty on the transfer taxes would still be in force[/b]

- so it would be a lot cheaper.

The thing that puts me off about it not being in the company name, is that although I have no intention of selling, the thought I have to live here the rest of my life and cannot sell to move elsewhere - is a horrible thought. I am 'only' 54 and it seems like I would be waiting to die.

Best you check on that date as i believe it is valid until 28th March 2009, wheather it will be extended or not is anybodys guess.

I'm not sure I understand this post - why would you not be able to sell the house if it was 'not in the company name'? You could sell it whatever name it's in surely? Your wife being willing, of course.

And the 'amnesty' on transfer tax - I thought the tax had been to lowered to 2%? An amnesty suggests it's tax free?

LennyW, Yes you are right, its March isn't it. I am looking at it now with Sunbelt, and just made a mental note I needed to get it finished before Summer next year. I will have it completed before the end of this year if I am going to do it.

JackSeymour, if I live another 360 months (I would be 84 then), I may not be married to my current wife - sad but true. 30 years is a long time. Divorce or death could occur. So I hope for the best (ie no death nor divorce), but plan for the worst.

I would not want to continue living here in either case. Lets face it, in either of these scenarios, it would not be clear cut that I would be the 'master' of my own destiny. Particularly in the first scenario were we to divorce.

As for the taxes, I will post an email I received from Sunbelt which should explain the charges. I have been dealing with them relating to this Usufruct.

Prefabs, thanks for that, I will wander off again and try to find it.

Shame the OP has not replied to David at East Coast (I assume he hasn't) as it would have been interesting.

EDIT as I found the Email from Sunbelt:. Not an 'amnesty' as such, but I think you would agree near enough to a zero charge to make it worth doing now if I want to do it all!!

Hi David,

Yes they lowered the rates to just .001 per cent on the transfer and .001 per cent on the SBC.

Our office in Pattaya now just deals with mergers and acquisitions. It was very hard to keep a good english speaking legal staff in Pattaya so we do it all from BKk now with are 72 legal staff in BKK and just drive down for the day to go to the Land Dept.

Are you ever in Bangkok? If not we can still do it by e-mail till the day we meet at the Land Office.

Just let me know.

Regards

Greg

Edited August 3, 2008 by dsfbrit

[jackyseymour]

I got my piece of sh-te outside Pattaya, but still in the sun and with a nice big garden, for around 80,000 pounds - cheaper than the UK and no Council Tax, Gas Bills and the rest of the high cost of living I was eager to get away from.

and that house would be in your name ??

No - at the moment its in the company name. I have a Thai wife and I am seriously considering putting it is my wifes name via a Usufruct. Land in her name, House in my name.

I am still not decided though. I am only considering this now,

[b]as if I were to do it before next May - then the 1 year amnesty on the transfer taxes would still be in force[/b]

- so it would be a lot cheaper.

The thing that puts me off about it not being in the company name, is that although I have no intention of selling, the thought I have to live here the rest of my life and cannot sell to move elsewhere - is a horrible thought. I am 'only' 54 and it seems like I would be waiting to die.

Best you check on that date as i believe it is valid until 28th March 2009, wheather it will be extended or not is anybodys guess.

I'm not sure I understand this post - why would you not be able to sell the house if it was 'not in the company name'? You could sell it whatever name it's in surely? Your wife being willing, of course.

And the 'amnesty' on transfer tax - I thought the tax had been to lowered to 2%? An amnesty suggests it's tax free?

LennyW, Yes you are right, its March isn't it. I am looking at it now with Sunbelt, and just made a mental note I needed to get it finished before Summer next year. I will have it completed before the end of this year if I am going to do it.

JackSeymour, if I live another 360 months (I would be 84 then), I may not be married to my current wife - sad but true. 30 years is a long time. Divorce or death could occur. So I hope for the best (ie no death nor divorce), but plan for the worst.

I would not want to continue living here in either case. Lets face it, in either of these scenarios, it would not be clear cut that I would be the 'master' of my own destiny. Particularly in the first scenario were we to divorce.

As for the taxes, I will post an email I received from Sunbelt which should explain the charges. I have been dealing with them relating to this Usufruct.

Prefabs, thanks for that, I will wander off again and try to find it.

Shame the OP has not replied to David at East Coast (I assume he hasn't) as it would have been interesting.

EDIT as I found the Email from Sunbelt:

Hi David,

Yes they lowered the rates to just .001 per cent on the transfer and .001 per cent on the SBC.

Our office in Pattaya now just deals with mergers and acquisitions. It was very hard to keep a good english speaking legal staff in Pattaya so we do it all from BKk now with are 72 legal staff in BKK and just drive down for the day to go to the Land Dept.

Are you ever in Bangkok? If not we can still do it by e-mail till the day we meet at the Land Office.

Just let me know.

Regards

Greg

Okay, still not there. If the land and house are set up in whatever names - company/wife/you and your usufruct - this can all be transferred over to any potential purchaser at the Land Office, no? ie If you have a usufruct in your name on the land, your wife being the titled owner to the land, would still be able to sign an agreement, with your agreement to disable/relinquish the usufruct, to transfer the land, surely? I wasn't aware that a usufruct was set in stone and the usufructee would be unable to relinquish such rights in his lifetime?

[dsfbrit]

Okay, still not there. If the land and house are set up in whatever names - company/wife/you and your usufruct - this can all be transferred over to any potential purchaser at the Land Office, no? ie If you have a usufruct in your name on the land, your wife being the titled owner to the land, would still be able to sign an agreement, with your agreement to disable/relinquish the usufruct, to transfer the land, surely? I wasn't aware that a usufruct was set in stone and the usufructee would be unable to relinquish such rights in his lifetime?

We are well off topic here... still briefly...

As soon as a farang gives up the company structure and includes his Thai wife for any reason in any other structure (30 year lease, Usufruct, 30+30 year lease (dodgy) ...etc...), then they relinquish full power.

That is just a fact of life - your Thai wife will need to and want to sign that piece of paper, be it at the land office or anywhere else.

So what if she does not want to sign - what could I do ???? - nothing.

She on the other hand could sell her lease (for example) and I could have a new landlord - this is all very messy.

We have discussed all this in previous posts over the last 2 years and I have had a lot of good advice from board members.

It leads me to believe that:

- the company route is still the most flexible, if slightly 'illegal'.

- the 30 year lease is fine if you want to live in the property for just 30 years

- the Usufruct is the best option if you dont want to risk being kicked out after 30 years

- the 30 + 30 year lease is not worth the paper it is printed on - its just a 30 year lease