Offshore Investments

[zorro1]

For those of you that don't buy real estate, where do you park your dosh? Figures as high as 50% return per year are thrown about here on TV quite regularly. For those that care to share, what was your average % return over the last 5 years ? Where did you invest?

[PattayaParent]

I only have a 3 year history of investing which has averaged about 7% which is only slightly more than putting it in a bank.

It's considered a 'conservative' investment though that was aimed at acheiving 8%+ over the 5 years.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Simple averages for discrete years in original currencies (and resisting the temptation to quote in USD which would probably add another 20%+):

2007: 18%

2006: 19%

2005: 27%

2004: 16%

2003: 34%

2008 YTD: - 9%

Mainly equity based mutual funds... but the last 12 months I've had more than usual in commodity, bond and resource funds even though still mainly equities...

Of course Thailand has been the single biggest country weighting....

Edited July 31, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[Naam]

For those of you that don't buy real estate, where do you park your dosh? Figures as high as 50% return per year are thrown about here on TV quite regularly. For those that care to share, what was your average % return over the last 5 years ? Where did you invest?

how can one share if you don't give a reference currency on which the return is based? i made an average of several ten thousand percent p.a. if i use the Zimbabwe Dollar as reference.

the method AFKAFSinLOS has used is just not feasible for a diversified investor who might have held a dozen currencies for dozens of different periods during the last 5 years.

[GuestHouse]

I hate these threads, they almost always result in me consuming too much salt.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

For those of you that don't buy real estate, where do you park your dosh? Figures as high as 50% return per year are thrown about here on TV quite regularly. For those that care to share, what was your average % return over the last 5 years ? Where did you invest?

how can one share if you don't give a reference currency on which the return is based? i made an average of several ten thousand percent p.a. if i use the Zimbabwe Dollar as reference.

the method AFKAFSinLOS has used is just not feasible for a diversified investor who might have held a dozen currencies for dozens of different periods during the last 5 years.

Naam - you're way off mark.

For anything I hold in USD/GBP/SGD/THB I measure it's return in USD/GBP/SGD/THB etc. These are the simple averages for each fund/investment. Not difficult to so at all for someone familiar with it. Of course you could get some strange results if you use things like ZAR, and use simple averages. I've had exposure to 8 currencies since 2000... all are easily referenced

Most financial systems, accounting packages, risk management systems, etc fall into 3 main categories: multi-currency; dual currency or single currency. I choose to use a multi-currency method, it's much more flexible. From there it's not difficult to play around and convert your net worth into any reference currency you please.

Ask any accountant, finance, risk person. Most banks use multi currency ledgers (books), as do many multinational companies which conduct cross border transactions in different currencies. You don't get much more diversified in terms of currencies than a bank, but this is what they usually use. They will then often convert to a single reference currency for reporting purposes, but just because you only see the single currency result, don't assume that there is not a multi currency ledger used to arrive at it.

Some companies may be listed on more than one stock-exchange. They often have to report in different currencies. I worked for a company in Thailand a few years back that did reporting in THB, USD and a Euro currency, as Head Office was in Europe, it was listed on the US exchanges and did business in Thailand...

BTW There's whole accounting standards written around how to apply different currencies. Accountants may sometimes get anal about it. But if it wasn't possible they wouldn't have to write their pages of boring stuff to explain how to treat currencies. Even for your single currency approach, which rates do you think they use: historic, current, daily average for year, monthly averages etc. They still need to capture the same exchange rates, just what you do with them from there...

Edited July 31, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[Naam]

Naam - you're way off mark

i [not so] humbly beg to differ as i neither use any

quote: "financial systems, accounting packages, risk management systems... nor any accountant, finance, risk person"

which i consider if not established by my [not so] humble self

moreover, after a certain time (end of calendar year) it is irrelevant for me which assets/currencies who's positions are closed have generated profit or loss. all what is of interest to me is the annual profit/loss expressed in the two reference currencies i use, i.e. USD and EUR and of course up-to-date profit/loss of any individual open position.

of course i can look up each and every open or closed position in my spreadsheet. going back not only 5 but 24 years. but to answer the question of the OP ("average yield last 5 years) i'd have to sit several hours trying to differentiate and then type a long list of results.

in my case it is rather easy giving an answer based on USD or EUR. as the OP did not mention his preferred reference currency i refrained from answering but asked a question.

[chiang mai]

My (low risk) investments earned me £26,522 last year and I spent it all bar £1,400 which went back into the pot - I regret however I am unwilling to divulge the percentage return.

[ilyushin]

In my business, we target 30% or it is considered non-performing.

On my own, I try to target 20% across the board. net regardless FX or other issues. Times I surprise myself.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Naam - you're way off mark

i [not so] humbly beg to differ as i neither use any

quote: "financial systems, accounting packages, risk management systems... nor any accountant, finance, risk person"

which i consider if not established by my [not so] humble self

moreover, after a certain time (end of calendar year) it is irrelevant for me which assets/currencies who's positions are closed have generated profit or loss. all what is of interest to me is the annual profit/loss expressed in the two reference currencies i use, i.e. USD and EUR and of course up-to-date profit/loss of any individual open position.

of course i can look up each and every open or closed position in my spreadsheet. going back not only 5 but 24 years. but to answer the question of the OP ("average yield last 5 years) i'd have to sit several hours trying to differentiate and then type a long list of results.

in my case it is rather easy giving an answer based on USD or EUR. as the OP did not mention his preferred reference currency i refrained from answering but asked a question.

Fair enough.. I deliberately quoted simple averages excluding currency impacts to try and keep simple, and just give an idea to at least let people understand what I'd done and how, anticipating exactly the problems you highlight. Everyone will have different bases anyway, so most of it will be apples and oranges. I wouldn't take anyone's numbers so seriously and it should just be a broad bit of interest / or fun.

I'm sure most people can no doubt can give us an absolute gain reasonably, even then there's some yanks, brits, euro, ozzies etc. Coming up with a % is even more difficult. I'm sure I could pick anyones numbers apart, and highlight why its apples and oranges. eg what FX rates used: bid/mid/offer, period end averages/year end actuals, average asstes under management, tax, charges, additions, withdrawals, funding costs, margin calls, illiquid investment adjustments, perk benefits, blah blah blah.

So I just chucked up a few simple numbers...I use Excel BTW, and have similar thoughts on the use of professionals...

[AFKAFSinLOS]

For those of you that don't buy real estate, where do you park your dosh? Figures as high as 50% return per year are thrown about here on TV quite regularly. For those that care to share, what was your average % return over the last 5 years ? Where did you invest?

I think the absence of reponses highlights your initial suspicions that some people are very selective, teling you the 50% gain on one thing, and ignoring the loss on another. When it comes to specifics people seem to disappear...

For info my best investment last year was around double, my worst lost money at around 20%. Some people omit the second half of the sentence when making these statements... This year I've more losses than gains!

That said I wouldn't be surprised if some of the traders out there genuinely make (and lose) some very large %s based on leveraging and margin trading.

I hate these threads, they almost always result in me consuming too much salt.

I would have thought you'd have been the first up there comparing to returns on UK pensions. This is your big chance...

Yes I know, apples and oranges, difficult to compare.... Give it a go and just stick some numbers in... For your GBP defined contribution schemes should be easy to give a return after stripping out contribuions within the year. For defined benefit, get a bit more creative, eg transfer values stripping out contributions in the year, salary increases, discounted cashflows... the world's your lobster...

Edited August 1, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[lannarebirth]

I made about 35% on 50% of assets, 3.5% on 30% of assets and 350% on 20% of assets.

50% in appreciating currencies, 50% in falling currency.

It was a very good year as far as I'm concerned.

edit: It should be noted, that much of these "investments" are still open, so that's that's just a snapshot of a particular point in time and does not fully include some future tax ramifications..

Edited August 1, 2008 by lannarebirth

[AFKAFSinLOS]

I made about 35% on 50% of assets, 3.5% on 30% of assets and 350% on 20% of assets.

50% in appreciating currencies, 50% in falling currency.

It was a very good year as far as I'm concerned.

Lanna,

You're exactly one of the people I had in mind when I said some people would have some big%s in some areas...

We won't hold it against your activities being trading rather than investment, but well done. Definitely food for thought...and some interesting stats..

[Naam]

So I just chucked up a few simple numbers...I use Excel BTW, and have similar thoughts on the use of professionals...

i'm quite old fashioned using QuattroPro (a derivate of Lotus123), last version is 16 years old. could not switch to any other version as my macros and subroutines (years of hard work) do not translate. best of all... it runs superfast under (DO NOT LAUGH!) DOS

[Paul MBMG]

Cash (i.e. government bond or repo rate) + 4% is realistically achieveable consistent return from a diversified conservative in any currency over a medium term. Start aiming higher and you start to increase the risk of failure.

cheers

Paul