My Experiences With Thai Monks

[Livinginexile]

From my first visits to Thailand untill now (I am married to a Thai woman), nothing but bad experiences with Thai monks.

Experiences:

1) One of my first visits to Thailand my (farang) girlfriend and I took the river boat up to the main temple. There a monk asked us if we would like him too read our future. He asked 2,000 bht!! I said noway but my g/f insisted.

He read her palm and went on about how we were in love, how many children we were going to have...etc etc. Complete charletan...I was planing to dump her as soon as we got home.

2) Second encounter was when I was with my thai g/f (now my wife) we went to another temple on the river and on entering was greeted by a monk who offered to give us a guided tour. He showed us some relics then sat us down and tryed to sell us an amulet. 2000 bht again!! he was talking to my g/f in Thai and i could see her going red in the face and looking mighty uncomfortable. I resisted and paid. I asked her later what he was talking about, she told me he was saying stuff like..." come on, tell the farang to buy it"..."we need the money, he is farang he can aford it"..."you are Thai, come on get him to buy it" She was deeply embarased by the whole episode.

3) I came to Thailand one time and went up north to meet her parents. before i left home I told my g/f that i had been very sick and was in bed for 3 days and had my phone off. (really i was away on a dirty weekend). In her town she took me to her local monk...her mother went to him about 15 mins before i did. During the meeting he proceded to do the futre think and told me in detail about my recent illness. Even to the point of telling me the date, where i was and what happened. Now this would have been amazing except for the fact it was all bulldust. Obviously the mother had filled him in with all the details before we got there.

4) Second visit to the same temple 6 months later when we decided to get mrried. We saw a different monk...this time it was all legit and nice untill right at the end he told me (through my partner) that i had to pay him 50,000bht when we got married cos' he had been her monk since childhood. Again she was deeply embarased.

My wife is deeply religious but I myself will never go back to another temple. Enough is enough.

Anyone else good sorry tales about Thai monks?

[Pushit]

From my first visits to Thailand untill now (I am married to a Thai woman), nothing but bad experiences with Thai monks.

Experiences:

1) One of my first visits to Thailand my (farang) girlfriend and I took the river boat up to the main temple. There a monk asked us if we would like him too read our future. He asked 2,000 bht!! I said noway but my g/f insisted.

He read her palm and went on about how we were in love, how many children we were going to have...etc etc. Complete charletan...I was planing to dump her as soon as we got home.

2) Second encounter was when I was with my thai g/f (now my wife) we went to another temple on the river and on entering was greeted by a monk who offered to give us a guided tour. He showed us some relics then sat us down and tryed to sell us an amulet. 2000 bht again!! he was talking to my g/f in Thai and i could see her going red in the face and looking mighty uncomfortable. I resisted and paid. I asked her later what he was talking about, she told me he was saying stuff like..." come on, tell the farang to buy it"..."we need the money, he is farang he can aford it"..."you are Thai, come on get him to buy it" She was deeply embarased by the whole episode.

3) I came to Thailand one time and went up north to meet her parents. before i left home I told my g/f that i had been very sick and was in bed for 3 days and had my phone off. (really i was away on a dirty weekend). In her town she took me to her local monk...her mother went to him about 15 mins before i did. During the meeting he proceded to do the futre think and told me in detail about my recent illness. Even to the point of telling me the date, where i was and what happened. Now this would have been amazing except for the fact it was all bulldust. Obviously the mother had filled him in with all the details before we got there.

No I certainly do not. Why do you keep going back for more BS?

4) Second visit to the same temple 6 months later when we decided to get mrried. We saw a different monk...this time it was all legit and nice untill right at the end he told me (through my partner) that i had to pay him 50,000bht when we got married cos' he had been her monk since childhood. Again she was deeply embarased.

My wife is deeply religious but I myself will never go back to another temple. Enough is enough.

Anyone else good sorry tales about Thai monks?

[garro]

Maybe you should stop depending on your wife for translations. This is all she said that he said. I know that there are bad monks out there, but what you are talking about just doesn't make sense, and I have been to a lot of temples.

[Livinginexile]

Maybe you should stop depending on your wife for translations. This is all she said that he said. I know that there are bad monks out there, but what you are talking about just doesn't make sense, and I have been to a lot of temples.

Hi Garro

It's all true.

100% bad experiences.

Now don't get me wrong, Buddhism is a beautiful religion, no doubt about it.

I have heard many tales about local monks helping Thai's to rip off farangs.

My experience only

Sorry to disapoint

[justcruisin]

From my first visits to Thailand untill now (I am married to a Thai woman), nothing but bad experiences with Thai monks.

4) Second visit to the same temple 6 months later when we decided to get mrried. We saw a different monk...this time it was all legit and nice untill right at the end he told me (through my partner) that i had to pay him 50,000bht when we got married cos' he had been her monk since childhood. Again she was deeply embarased.

My wife is deeply religious but I myself will never go back to another temple. Enough is enough.

Anyone else good sorry tales about Thai monks?

After all of these experiences,you keep coming back for more?

Did you pay the 50,000Bht?

Bhuddhist religion is not all about money in my experience,I have utilised their services a few months ago,also had a moolam and tamboon at my G/Fs house.The amount I paid to them was nothing like the figures you are quoting.The mother of G/F had passed away in this house and the spirits were getting rowdy!The cost for an almost all night party and stage/music setup and dancing girls for the moolam was about 32k Bht with beer/food and about 80 people in attendance.My total cost was less 9k Bht.The donation for the monks to attend to this was less than 1,500Bht..and for 2 times for them to come.

I have assisted at this local wat before with voluntary labor a couple of times so maybe they factored that in?

Better luck next time champ.

[NotYetArahan]

My wife says that around 4% of the monks are "good" monks: dedicated to improve the mind and doing so with enthousiasm and effort.

She tries to find the "good" monks and happily enough she can find them. I have therefore only good experiences with monks.

Interesting to here your stories though.

[Livinginexile]

Buddha NEVER told is monks too:

Convince the people to buy different types of amulets for different types of good luck and make a profit doing so.

Predict a persons future by palm reading, tarro cards or secret numbers

Charge the local people to predict next weeks lotto numbers.

Inform the poor old farang who is about to be ripped off by a Thai gold digger, that it is indeed true love that he has found and that the future looks bright and happy, all by reading his palm, tarro secret numbers... Knowing full well its a sham.

Teach the local people about spooks, evil trances, hidden meanings about a crow sitting on your roof, and then charge them to excercise them away.

Worship rotten corpses behind glass cages because they didn't rot as quickly as they should, therefore it is to be worshiped. Then making a good deal of money from the people that come for spiritual comfort. (I have knowledge that this particular corpse was indeed embalmed secretly and is held in the meditation position by internal wires. Known by xray.)

They ALL practice these beliefs

This is Buddhism?

This is spirituality?

Sorry to all you lost farang souls...but I personally wouldn't trust one as far as I can spit

[Livinginexile]

Did you pay the 50,000Bht?

Bhuddhist religion is not all about money in my experience,I have utilised their services a few months ago,also had a moolam and tamboon at my G/Fs house.The amount I paid to them was nothing like the figures you are quoting.The mother of G/F had passed away in this house and the spirits were getting rowdy!The cost for an almost all night party and stage/music setup and dancing girls for the moolam was about 32k Bht with beer/food and about 80 people in attendance.My total cost was less 9k Bht.The donation for the monks to attend to this was less than 1,500Bht..and for 2 times for them to come.

I have assisted at this local wat before with voluntary labor a couple of times so maybe they factored that in?

Better luck next time champ.

NO WAY did I pay the shister even 1 satang lol

So a Buddhist monk came to your house to scare away evil spirits? I wander what Buddha would think about a monk collecting money in his name to carry out this scam.

This is not Buddhism my friend.

Edited August 1, 2008 by camerata
Fixed broken quote.

[sabaijai]

Welcome to the Buddhism subforum, Livinginexile. Before you post further, would you mind having a look at the welcome message and posting guidelines pinned to the top of the page? Here's the link:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Message-t61517.html

Thanks very much.

[ThaiPauly]

I have NEVER had any bad experiences with Monks in the 5 years I have been here.

Just positive ones

Maybe I have just been very lucky or the OP has been VERY UNLUCKY

[rgs2001uk]

Buddha NEVER told is monks too:

Convince the people to buy different types of amulets for different types of good luck and make a profit doing so.

Predict a persons future by palm reading, tarro cards or secret numbers

Charge the local people to predict next weeks lotto numbers.

Inform the poor old farang who is about to be ripped off by a Thai gold digger, that it is indeed true love that he has found and that the future looks bright and happy, all by reading his palm, tarro secret numbers... Knowing full well its a sham.

Teach the local people about spooks, evil trances, hidden meanings about a crow sitting on your roof, and then charge them to excercise them away.

Worship rotten corpses behind glass cages because they didn't rot as quickly as they should, therefore it is to be worshiped. Then making a good deal of money from the people that come for spiritual comfort. (I have knowledge that this particular corpse was indeed embalmed secretly and is held in the meditation position by internal wires. Known by xray.)

They ALL practice these beliefs

This is Buddhism?

This is spirituality?

Sorry to all you lost farang souls...but I personally wouldn't trust one as far as I can spit

livinginexile,

while i share your concerns and observations, believe me i know many thais who are just as concerned.

i stopped worrying about it years ago, when i was able to see through it, with the help and guidance of thai friends.

in my opinion this is not buddhism, it is a hotch potch of hocus pocus that preys on the gullible and those who finanacially can least afford it.

some of the things i have seen at these so called temples disgusted me so much i never went back.

while i dont want to criticize buddhism ( which what you have described is blantantly not ) or your family, at times the temples people attend is often a reflection of their position within society, i have found the better educated and informed are less likely to be found at these so called places of enlightenment.

Edited August 1, 2008 by camerata
Fixed broken quote.

[barky]

I have only been to temples here a couple of times. On one occasion I was sitting on the floor with a bunch of Thais who were listening to some monk, the monk decided he would single out the westener (me) and start making all sorts of jokes for about 10 to 15 minutes. It seemed to amuse the Thais but I felt like giving him a punch in the face as I wasn't there for anyone's amusement. Apart from that on two separate occasions I have had monks solicit money from me. I just quickly tell them to F off and keep walking. As a rule I just ingnore them totally.

[roygsd]

From my first visits to Thailand untill now (I am married to a Thai woman), nothing but bad experiences with Thai monks.

Experiences:

1) One of my first visits to Thailand my (farang) girlfriend and I took the river boat up to the main temple. There a monk asked us if we would like him too read our future. He asked 2,000 bht!! I said noway but my g/f insisted.

He read her palm and went on about how we were in love, how many children we were going to have...etc etc. Complete charletan...I was planing to dump her as soon as we got home.

2) Second encounter was when I was with my thai g/f (now my wife) we went to another temple on the river and on entering was greeted by a monk who offered to give us a guided tour. He showed us some relics then sat us down and tryed to sell us an amulet. 2000 bht again!! he was talking to my g/f in Thai and i could see her going red in the face and looking mighty uncomfortable. I resisted and paid. I asked her later what he was talking about, she told me he was saying stuff like..." come on, tell the farang to buy it"..."we need the money, he is farang he can aford it"..."you are Thai, come on get him to buy it" She was deeply embarased by the whole episode.

3) I came to Thailand one time and went up north to meet her parents. before i left home I told my g/f that i had been very sick and was in bed for 3 days and had my phone off. (really i was away on a dirty weekend). In her town she took me to her local monk...her mother went to him about 15 mins before i did. During the meeting he proceded to do the futre think and told me in detail about my recent illness. Even to the point of telling me the date, where i was and what happened. Now this would have been amazing except for the fact it was all bulldust. Obviously the mother had filled him in with all the details before we got there.

4) Second visit to the same temple 6 months later when we decided to get mrried. We saw a different monk...this time it was all legit and nice untill right at the end he told me (through my partner) that i had to pay him 50,000bht when we got married cos' he had been her monk since childhood. Again she was deeply embarased.

My wife is deeply religious but I myself will never go back to another temple. Enough is enough.

Anyone else good sorry tales about Thai monks?

In the uk we say "All that glitters is not gold", in LOS Farangs should know "All that is wrapped in gold(ish) cloth is no different to something wrapped in denim or any other cloth" ,

Monk should be an abreviation for Cheeky Monkey in my experience with many of them.

Roy gsd

[Samuian]

@OP:

result of No. 4 is the same result as you point out in number 3! The mother was there too, asking the monk to mention/or to ask for the dowry!

But then, what the heck it 'the observer who thinks or comes with th e impression that a monk has to be like this or that - 99.9% of them are human being who went into monk hood mostly of very human reasoning....food, shelter, companionship... very, very few really study and live a life in solitude, renunciation and practice Vipassana.

After all it the Observer who gets it all wrong - let 'em do.. don't get entangled, holiness is a fantasy, an idea, a dream, the longing of the observed imperfect to be perfect, this is the grand illusion - it is - as is!

Edited August 1, 2008 by Samuian

[rockyysdt]

From my first visits to Thailand untill now (I am married to a Thai woman), nothing but bad experiences with Thai monks.

I met a monk who drank whiskey and smoked roll your own tobacco.

In a country where many live in extreme poverty there will always be those who will abuse their status.

It's your job to protect yourself and see through fraudsters as they present.

Monks should be treated as individuals and judged accordingly.

Tarring them all with the same brush is the wrong thing to do and can end up hardening your heart.

There are good monks.

Look for them.

You might be surprised.

Edited August 1, 2008 by rockyysdt

[phloiwang]

hi living

According to the tripitaga, there are only four types of (ariya/noble), should be considered as, monks. From sodaban(sotapana) up to arahant. The (negative) monks you have encountered are called sommutti (supposed/assumed/conventional)monks. They are believed not to be different from common people (people with defilements / unwholesome minds) we see in our daily lives. Actually, this type should not be called monk at all but rather a man in yellow robe or a bogus monk. But if we tend to think positively, each / some of them may develope himself to the level of ariya monks some days.

And again, according to the tripitaga, people ( and monks) who do good deeds are said to go to good realm when they die, but evil ones ( including monks) will go to the opposite / evil realms. (kamma law)

And from the same tripitaka, people in normal dress (like you and me) who has a mind of ariya monks , the four types mentioned above, is actually a monk. The word "monk" in ultimate sense is the one with ariya/ noble mind, not the one in yellow (uniform) robe.

[IMA_FARANG]

From my first visits to Thailand untill now (I am married to a Thai woman), nothing but bad experiences with Thai monks.

Experiences:

1) One of my first visits to Thailand my (farang) girlfriend and I took the river boat up to the main temple. There a monk asked us if we would like him too read our future. He asked 2,000 bht!! I said noway but my g/f insisted.

He read her palm and went on about how we were in love, how many children we were going to have...etc etc. Complete charletan...I was planing to dump her as soon as we got home.

2) Second encounter was when I was with my thai g/f (now my wife) we went to another temple on the river and on entering was greeted by a monk who offered to give us a guided tour. He showed us some relics then sat us down and tryed to sell us an amulet. 2000 bht again!! he was talking to my g/f in Thai and i could see her going red in the face and looking mighty uncomfortable. I resisted and paid. I asked her later what he was talking about, she told me he was saying stuff like..." come on, tell the farang to buy it"..."we need the money, he is farang he can aford it"..."you are Thai, come on get him to buy it" She was deeply embarased by the whole episode.

3) I came to Thailand one time and went up north to meet her parents. before i left home I told my g/f that i had been very sick and was in bed for 3 days and had my phone off. (really i was away on a dirty weekend). In her town she took me to her local monk...her mother went to him about 15 mins before i did. During the meeting he proceded to do the futre think and told me in detail about my recent illness. Even to the point of telling me the date, where i was and what happened. Now this would have been amazing except for the fact it was all bulldust. Obviously the mother had filled him in with all the details before we got there.

4) Second visit to the same temple 6 months later when we decided to get mrried. We saw a different monk...this time it was all legit and nice untill right at the end he told me (through my partner) that i had to pay him 50,000bht when we got married cos' he had been her monk since childhood. Again she was deeply embarased.

My wife is deeply religious but I myself will never go back to another temple. Enough is enough.

Anyone else good sorry tales about Thai monks?

I'm sorry you seem to have had bad experiences with Thai monks. You realise, I hope that there are charlatans in every faith and religion. Just look at the so called preachers on television in the U.S. who ask their supporters (often retired people on a limited budget to "send their money to God....but the address on the envelope is the church they controll).

You have to realise that many poor people in Thailand look to the Thai monks as their salavation and the road to prosperity.

Things like selling amulets, telling fortunes, and bringing "good luck" are not part of Buddhism. But for a poor Thai, a few hundred Baht to a "fourtune teller" who also claims to be a Buddhist holy person is a cheap investment in hope...and far better for the health than to drink rot-gut rice whiskey to solve all their problems.

As for me, I've met some dedicated and religious monks in my time in Thailand. The first year I was there I was given a "cleansing' ceremony by the Buddhist lay person (not a monk) who thought I needed it (for my drinking and chasing Thai bargirls). All he asked was that I donate 500 baht to a local orphanage. It didn't go to him, but straight to the orphanage.

I also met a monk on a train when I was going to Penang on a visa run. He had the bunk above me. I thought that was going to be a terrible trip, but he turned out to speak very god English, and was a really educated person. I spent about 4 hours that night, just talking to him. He impressed me a lot and never asked me for any money. He turned out to be a high ranking monk in one of the Thai Wats just north of the border with Malaysia. From what conversation I had with him, I judged he was a truely devout and honest person.

I once met a Buddhist nun in Vietnam, who the locals regaded as especially holy, a renowned Buddhist nun. She was an amazing person. Altough she spoke little English, she had a quality like a light that shone inside her. She was the only person I ever met, who I could say was a true holy person. At the time i din't realise, but later I discovered how admired she was by the Vietnamese. She has since become known worldwide among Buddhists....but I won't reveal her name.

I knew a Thai-Chinese family who sponsored a Wat on the outskirts of Bangkok. At least some of the monks there were devoted to the temple life, lived their life in meditation and a Buddhist life of poverty and meditation. I know that Wat sponsored a ophanage and hospital for the local Thai children. Most of the monks in that Wat were simple people, living in poverty, and devoting their lives to helping the orphans.

Anyhow, I hope you find some good Buddhist monks and laymen (or women, if that isn't a taboo topic in Thailand). There are some, just like there are some charlatans and thieves.

Edited August 1, 2008 by IMA_FARANG

[bankei]

Hi

I have been a Buddhist for 25 years and been coming to Thailand since 1990. I have even been ordained as a full monk. But I must say that I have never met a Thai monk that I was impressed with - except maybe a few in Sydney!

The monk that has most impressed me most is an English man living in Bangkok, Phra Dhammanando.

I am sure there are others out there, but the bad monks are surely in the majority.

[poshthai]

Some bad thais pretend to be a policeman so what chance have we got regarding thais pretending to be monks.

[Richb2004v2]

At the end of the day these ‘monks’ are just men in robes, Thai men in robes. Some of them are only part timers and others are probably just lazy scroungers. I have no respect for them and neither does my Thai wife or her younger family members. They have all experienced the prevalent bad side of the monks and are therefore at least qualified to take this stance.

[Cobalt60]

Did I read somewhere that to avoid a jail sentance a boy who drove his car into a queue of people waiting for a bus could join the monkhood ?

Never was sure if it was right or truthful, but if it is it shocks me.

[garro]

At the end of the day these ‘monks’ are just men in robes, Thai men in robes. Some of them are only part timers and others are probably just lazy scroungers. I have no respect for them and neither does my Thai wife or her younger family members. They have all experienced the prevalent bad side of the monks and are therefore at least qualified to take this stance.

I always wonder why people like you bother to post on the Buddhist part of the site. If Buddhism is not for you then that is fine, but why do you feel the need to post this stuff here. Have you no respect? Do you not believe that people have a right to see things differently from you? Do you feel that it is your job to educate? Will you be visiting the Muslim and Christian forums later to criticise their views?

[Cuban]

I have an office in Pattaya from time to time we get people dressed up as 'classic' monks as if ready for a picture postcard photo-shoot, long sox and garters. They are selling blessed stuff or charms etc. and ringing a little bell as they walk in. They make a bee-line for me as the Thai staff smile sweetly and otherwise ignore them.

I have another question that is related, but will place in a new thread, here, rather than bite into the OPs.

[rockyysdt]

At the end of the day these 'monks' are just men in robes, Thai men in robes. Some of them are only part timers and others are probably just lazy scroungers. I have no respect for them and neither does my Thai wife or her younger family members. They have all experienced the prevalent bad side of the monks and are therefore at least qualified to take this stance.

I always wonder why people like you bother to post on the Buddhist part of the site. If Buddhism is not for you then that is fine, but why do you feel the need to post this stuff here. Have you no respect? Do you not believe that people have a right to see things differently from you? Do you feel that it is your job to educate? Will you be visiting the Muslim and Christian forums later to criticise their views?

Hi Garro.

It needn't be an unhealthy thing to expose bad monks.

It has nothing to do with Buddhism.

If it's true that a large percentage of them don't behave appropriately then being aware of this can be helpful.

Poor behaviour can only ruin the reputation of their fold.

It's obvious that this has happened to Richb2004v2 and his family.

Preying financially on poor believers who can ill afford it is also unacceptable.

The purpose is not to hate bad monks, after all no one is without sin, but to raise awareness and healthy scepticism.

NB: I looked for one, but it appears this forum doesn't have a Christian section.

Edited August 2, 2008 by rockyysdt

[garro]

At the end of the day these 'monks' are just men in robes, Thai men in robes. Some of them are only part timers and others are probably just lazy scroungers. I have no respect for them and neither does my Thai wife or her younger family members. They have all experienced the prevalent bad side of the monks and are therefore at least qualified to take this stance.

I always wonder why people like you bother to post on the Buddhist part of the site. If Buddhism is not for you then that is fine, but why do you feel the need to post this stuff here. Have you no respect? Do you not believe that people have a right to see things differently from you? Do you feel that it is your job to educate? Will you be visiting the Muslim and Christian forums later to criticise their views?

Hi Garro.

It needn't be an unhealthy thing to expose bad monks.

If it's true that a large percentage of them don't behave appropriately then being aware of this can be helpful.

Poor behaviour can only ruin the reputation of their fold.

It's obvious that this has happened to Richb2004v2 and his family.

Preying financially on poor believers who can ill afford it is also unacceptable.

The purpose is not to hate bad monks, after all no one is without sin, but to raise awareness and healthy scepticism.

NB: I looked for one, but it appears this forum doesn't have a Christian section.

Rocky,

Yes constructive criticism can be a good thing, but is the following constructive? 'I have no respect for them and neither does my Thai wife or her younger family members'. I just don't understand why someone would go to the bother to post this on the Buddhist part of the forum.

Are there bad monks? Of course there are. Will spending time on an internet forum listening to people's gripes about them help? Maybe not.

The problem is people have different motivations for posting here, and there is no way to test the varacity of these claims. I get the impression that there is a lot more to the OPs story then what he is telling.

I never said that there was a Christian section on this forum.

[rockyysdt]

Rocky,

Yes constructive criticism can be a good thing, but is the following constructive? 'I have no respect for them and neither does my Thai wife or her younger family members'. I just don't understand why someone would go to the bother to post this on the Buddhist part of the forum.

Are there bad monks? Of course there are. Will spending time on an internet forum listening to people's gripes about them help? Maybe not.

The problem is people have different motivations for posting here, and there is no way to test the varacity of these claims. I get the impression that there is a lot more to the OPs story then what he is telling.

I for one have learned quite a bit about Monks on this forum.

I originally viewed all monks as fortunate travelers on a noble path.

I had no idea at the extent and depth of "bad monk" behaviour until spending time on this forum, as well as traveling north on my last trip. I think posts such as these can be helpful.

Being relatively new to Thailand, my vision included spending much time at a teaching Wat under the guidance of a Monk.

My new view is that as an earlier poster indicated, "its not the colour of the frock, but what is inside that makes a monk".

I accept each man with an open mind but in future will be mindful of misbehaviour.

I'm puzzled that you challenge the veracity of Richb2004v2's post?

He just appears to be airing his experiences on the subject raised by Livinginexile.

I'm not seeing ulterior motives from Richb2004v2's post.

I'd say any trust he might have had has been fractured and would need a direct postive experience to restore.

Edited August 3, 2008 by rockyysdt

[garro]

Rocky,

Yes constructive criticism can be a good thing, but is the following constructive? 'I have no respect for them and neither does my Thai wife or her younger family members'. I just don't understand why someone would go to the bother to post this on the Buddhist part of the forum.

Are there bad monks? Of course there are. Will spending time on an internet forum listening to people's gripes about them help? Maybe not.

The problem is people have different motivations for posting here, and there is no way to test the varacity of these claims. I get the impression that there is a lot more to the OPs story then what he is telling.

I for one have learned quite a bit about Monks on this forum.

I originally viewed all monks as fortunate travelers on a noble path.

I had no idea at the extent and depth of "bad monk" behaviour until spending time on this forum, as well as traveling north on my last trip. I think posts such as these can be helpful.

Being relatively new to Thailand, my vision included spending much time at a teaching Wat under the guidance of a Monk.

My new view is that as an earlier poster indicated, "its not the colour of the frock, but what is inside that makes a monk".

I accept each man with an open mind but in future will be mindful of misbehaviour.

I'm puzzled that you challenge the veracity of Richb2004v2's post?

He just appears to be airing his experiences on the subject raised by Livinginexile.

I'm not seeing ulterior motives from Richb2004v2's post.

I'd say any trust he might have had has been fractured and would need a direct postive experience to restore.

I would hate to think that your views about the monks in Thailand have been formed from posts on this forum. People are often far more vocal about their bad experiences. Meanwhile plenty of good monks get along with their business largely ignored. Threads like this one provide a very jaundiced view.

I have had amazing life changing experiences with the monks of Thailand, but if I were to just judge them purely by posts on forums, such as this one, I would not have allowed myself to be in a position for these experiences to occur. The internet is vast with plenty of stories of bad monks. These stories are almost always one-sided. For example, there is another thread at the moment complaining about the monks being out on the streets during Pansa - the Buddhist lent. The truth is though that these monks are allowed out, but people with just read the headline and see this as more evidence that the monks are ill-behaved- all because of a misinformed story.

As to the veracity of people's claims. Do you believe everything that you read? I don't. Everybody has motivations, and these motivations are not always the wish to inform. I think that when discussing other people's beliefs it is important to start off from a position of mutual respect - this is especially true when this conversation occurs on a section of a forum devoted to a particular belief.

Edited August 3, 2008 by garro

[Brucenkhamen]

Yes constructive criticism can be a good thing, but is the following constructive? 'I have no respect for them and neither does my Thai wife or her younger family members'. I just don't understand why someone would go to the bother to post this on the Buddhist part of the forum.

Are there bad monks? Of course there are. Will spending time on an internet forum listening to people's gripes about them help? Maybe not.

The problem is people have different motivations for posting here, and there is no way to test the varacity of these claims. I get the impression that there is a lot more to the OPs story then what he is telling.

I never said that there was a Christian section on this forum.

Thaivisa is a forum about Thailand, so it makes sense that the Buddhist section is somewhere where people can discuss the state of Thai Buddhism, from amulets, to superstitions, to corrupt monks. If you want a forum where you can interact with only Buddhist practice minded people then this isn't it I'm afraid.

Sure the post you replied to wasn't constructive but I don't think there is a requirement for it to be, it's one mans opinion and he's entitled to it. What he posted may well be true of 90% of monks in Thailand and he may not be interested in finding out about the other 10%, but rather than scolding him for expressing an opinion I think it would be better to share some of your positive experiences with monks in Thailand.

Considering the gripes you can read on these kinds of forums about and Thai people, dishonest girlfriends, and sick buffaloes I think Buddhism gets off lightly. I think most westerners realise there is more to Buddhism than what they observe on public display in Thailand, the OP indicated that also.

[desi]

The internet is vast with plenty of stories of bad monks. These stories are almost always one-sided. For example, there is another thread at the moment complaining about the monks being out on the streets during Pansa - the Buddhist lent. The truth is though that these monks are allowed out, but people with just read the headline and see this as more evidence that the monks are ill-behaved- all because of a misinformed story.

I was out with a Thai friend this past Friday (Pansa). During our trip we passed a lot of monks wandering around the tourist areas mid-afternoon. Then, when waiting for a tram, we watched two monks sitting on a park bench talking on mobile phones. When I asked my friend about the monks, she explained that they should not be lazing around on park benches during Lent. That they should be improving themselves (it was longer than this but I don't remember her exact words). She did mention that some might have errands to run, but... we did see an awful lot of monks that day... more than in the non-touristy areas. Actually, in the non-touristy areas we didn't see any at all.

Since we were already discussing monks, I asked her about my recent experiences... I was walking up a soi talking on a mobile when a monk approached me asking for money. Where I'm from it's rude to interrupt someone who is obviously busy, so I sidestepped and went around. It happened in JJ's too, but as I wasn't on the phone I did hand over some money.

When explaining both instances to her, she became visibly embarrassed. She then said that yes, there are people walking around in monks robes that are not considered real monks by the Thai people. These false monks are just there for a free ride (begging money, etc). Then she said Thais should report these actions by first asking what Wat the monks belong to (some only own the robes and are not affiliated with any Wats so fall under suspicion - of course, what would stop them from lying?)... but that there is also a hope these fake monks will turn their lives around. And with the mention of hope, the mai bpen rai came into play.

Granted, it was only one person giving an opinion, but I'm not so sure I'd label her as misinformed. She's in her 60's, religious (although she says not religious enough), and educated.

This very same friend takes great pride it showing me around Wats in and around BK (she's always making merit and is happy for me to tag along - and it usually doesn't cost me anything). She also takes great care in chosing a Wat. When I wanted to do something for a friend, she picked a Wat further away because it was a 'good one', a 'trusted one'. This time a little money did come into play as I was asking the monk for a special favour - flowers, a monk bucket and one hundred baht. Peanuts.

And after reading this post, I now have more questions to ask my Thai friend. Like, what did she mean about 'good' and 'trusted'. I didn't think of it at the time, but now I can pretty much guess. But, I'd rather have it from her than leave it open to interpretation...

[BlackArtemis]

My wife is a little upset with the current state of the monks, but realizes that bad news travels faster.

However, I've had some very positive experiences with monks, and some very poor ones. Kinda like, you know, everyone?

Some of them are there for family money reasons, and others because they want to devote their lives.

Sure I find it wrong that I see monks buying cell phones, using money and hear stories about them watching football games late at night.

I even know some farang girls who hooked up with some monks (I quickly disassociated with everyone involved)

However, I met some monks in my times who have sat down with me and taught me a lot of things I never knew, they guided me through ceremonies and explained their meaning all because they wanted to share.

Don't write off the whole lot of them just because some fakes are wearing orange.

p.s. I hear a lot of the older generation talking about how they never heard of so many problems with the monks when they were younger. I kindly point out that they didn't have gossip rags, tv, internet, and other means of communicating that some monk up river did something something something. 30 years ago it never left that area.