American / Thai Seeking Help For Current Situation

[warrena]

Hello Everyone,

I am currently holding an American passport, and am on a Non-imm type O visa. However I was born in Thailand. One of the mistakes I made was not registering myself as a Thai. My father is Thai and mother is American, Can anyone tell me if I would be able to ask for my Thai Citizenship without having to give up my American Citizenship.

I was recently told that because I was born here, I would not have to wait the 2 - 3 years to ask for citizenship however I must give up my American Citizenship to do so. But I have many friends who hold both Thai & British/Canadian/Australian. What are the laws for this?

I would very much appreciate any help I can get, It is very difficult to find work and get around owning property without the Thai Citizenship.

Thank you for your help in advance.

W.

[jetjock]

I do not know alot about the answer to your question but do know that a friend of mine in almost an identical situation to yours chose not to pursue totally legal dual citizenship by getting his rightful Thai citizenship due to the Thai requirement of compulsory military service for males. I am sure that some of the members of this forum will be able to fully answer your question but it might be helpful to them if you post whether you are a male and if so what is your age.

[Maestro]

...I was born in Thailand. One of the mistakes I made was not registering myself as a Thai. My father is Thai and mother is American...

Regardless of your place of birth, with one of your parents a Thai national you are Thai by birth and your birth certificate should show this.

Step 1: Go with your birth certificate to the amphur office and apply for your Thai ID card. If your name is not already in a house registration book, get that done first.

Step 2: With birth certificate, ID card and house registration book, go to the Thai passport office and apply for your Thai passport.

Step 3: Since you entered Thailand on your US passport, on your next departure from Thailand use your US passport to get the exit stamp.

Step 4: After that, always use your Thai passport to enter and leave Thailand and other countries where the Thai passport gives you an advantage (some Asean countries), use your US passport to enter and leave the USA and other countries.

--

Maestro

[TerryLH]

"...due to the Thai requirement of compulsory military service..."

No such thing.

[Maizefarmer]

Hello Everyone,

I am currently holding an American passport, and am on a Non-imm type O visa. However I was born in Thailand. One of the mistakes I made was not registering myself as a Thai. My father is Thai and mother is American, Can anyone tell me if I would be able to ask for my Thai Citizenship without having to give up my American Citizenship.

I was recently told that because I was born here, I would not have to wait the 2 - 3 years to ask for citizenship however I must give up my American Citizenship to do so. But I have many friends who hold both Thai & British/Canadian/Australian. What are the laws for this?

I would very much appreciate any help I can get, It is very difficult to find work and get around owning property without the Thai Citizenship.

Thank you for your help in advance.

W.

Hi Warrena

There is no truth in the stories that go around that state/say/allege you have to give one citizenship for the other. American citizens can hold Thai citizenship at the same time, and Thai citizens entitled to US citizenship can also hold both. In short American/Thai citizenship dual citizenship is legal and can be applied for at any time in your life without fear of having to sacrifice one or the other, if you feel you are entitled to it.

Good Luck

[jetjock]

"...due to the Thai requirement of compulsory military service..."

No such thing.

TerryLH,

I decided to try to do some research on the subject since it has been quite a few years since my Thai friend who was an Australian and Thai citizen said he actually gave up his Thai citizenship since he would have been subject military service requirements . I know that it was possible that the laws may have changed however I have excerpted the only information I was able to find in English regarding the subject and have listed it below.

Thailand 2008 CIA World Fact:

Thailand- 21 years of age for compulsory military service; 18 years of age for voluntary military service; males are registered at 18 years of age; 2-year conscript service obligation (2006)

Wikipedia:

The Royal Thai Armed Forces (กองทัพไทย) is the name of the military of Thailand. It has four main branches, the Royal Thai Army, Royal Thai Navy (includes the Royal Thai Marine Corps), Royal Thai Air Force, in addition to Paramilitary Forces. Royal Thai Armed Forces Day is January 18, to commemorate the victory of King Naresuan which is presumed to have occurred on this date in 1593.

The minimum age to join the military is 18 while 21 is the minimum age for recruitment. In total, as of 2004, there are 17,944,151 men in Thailand age 15-49, 10,735,354 of whom could potentially be recruited. As of 2004, 531,511 males reach the minimum age annually. In 2000, Thailand spent US$1.775 billion on its military, constituting, in 2003, 1.8% of GDP.

According to the 1997 constitution military service is a duty for all male citizens and at age 21 those who have not undergone reserve training are subject to a draft. Volunteers are subject to six to eighteen months service depending on their education while those chosen randomly are subject to twenty-four months in full-time service.

As I mentioned in my post, I am not an expert in this area so if you have some information on the subject that shows that the information that I have is not current, I would appreciate hear from you as I am always willing to be updated. Thanks

[dingdongrb]

Regardless of your place of birth, with one of your parents a Thai national you are Thai by birth and your birth certificate should show this.

Maestro, What do you mean by this? Your statement is ridiculous. My daughter who is 2 was born in the USA. Her mother (my wife) is a Thai national. My daughter may be half Thai and half American because of her parents, but she is 100% American because ahe has a USA birth certificate and was born on US soil. I am looking directly at her birth certificate now and it states where my wife was born (Thailand) as well as where I was born. But for what it matters my wife could be a US citizen now and has given up her Thai nationality when my daughter was born. (But that is not the case.)

Now to enlighten you so that you have your facts right the next time you try to answer someone's questions, my duaghter is a USA citizen, she holds as USA passport, she has only a USA birth certificate (at this momment), and she is required to get a Non-O visa each and every year (as do I). But if I submit the proper application with all the required documents to the Thai Embassy in Washington DC my daughter can rightfully obtain a Thai birth certificate.

[Mario2008]

Chapter 1. Acquisition of Thai Nationality

Section 7. The following persons acquire Thai nationality by birth:

(1) A person born of a father or a mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom;

The birth certificate proofs someone is Thai, as is shows one of the parents is Thai. It doesn't make you Thai. When one of the parents is Thai the child has Thai nationality by law.

[TerryLH]

Mr. dingdongrb

"Now to enlighten you so that you have your facts right the next time you try to answer someone's questions, my duaghter is a USA citizen, she holds as USA passport, she has only a USA birth certificate (at this momment), and she is required to get a Non-O visa each and every year (as do I). But if I submit the proper application with all the required documents to the Thai Embassy in Washington DC my daughter can rightfully obtain a Thai birth certificate."

His facts were correct. It's been your choice to not take advantage of options available to your daughter.

She is only required to get the non O visa because of a choice you have made. A poor choice in my opinion.

You can get a Thai birth certificate at other Thai consulates in the states, you don't have to do it only at the embassy.

It's a simple process, really. She can get a Thai passport at the same time as she gets the Thai birth certificate.

No downside to having both a USA and a Thai PP.

________________________________________________________________________________

______

Jetjock

Thai's (males) are subject to a lottery when they turn 20-21. It's usually done in April each year.

They, as you said, are subject to a draft, but if their 'color' doesn't come up, they are given an exemption.

The number of young men actually called up is not very high. They look at the number of new people they'll need for the upcoming year+ and then spread that out throughout the country so that everyones chances are pretty much equal.

So, I agree that they are subject to a draft/lottery process, but in my mind that's far from being compulsory service.

There are a few Thai posters here who know a lot about this subject and occasionally post info when a question about it comes up.

[dingdongrb]

Mr. dingdongrb

"Now to enlighten you so that you have your facts right the next time you try to answer someone's questions, my duaghter is a USA citizen, she holds as USA passport, she has only a USA birth certificate (at this momment), and she is required to get a Non-O visa each and every year (as do I). But if I submit the proper application with all the required documents to the Thai Embassy in Washington DC my daughter can rightfully obtain a Thai birth certificate."

His facts were correct. It's been your choice to not take advantage of options available to your daughter.

She is only required to get the non O visa because of a choice you have made. A poor choice in my opinion.

You can get a Thai birth certificate at other Thai consulates in the states, you don't have to do it only at the embassy.

It's a simple process, really. She can get a Thai passport at the same time as she gets the Thai birth certificate.

No downside to having both a USA and a Thai PP.

Terry,

Fact: She is required to get a Non-O until she obtains the Thai BC. (Unless she wants to be here on just the 30 day stamp.) Just because she was born to a Thai does not automatically mean she is a Thai citizen. Yes, this would be the case if she was born in Thailand, and then we would have to pursue the other direction (becoming a US citizen).

I agree that this can be handled by other Thai consulates in the USA other than DC but I was directed to the one in DC, thus the reason I mentioned it. I'm also fully aware that she can get a Thai PP, but this cannot happen until she gets a Thai BC.

My point being is that I disagreed with how I read the poster's statement: "Regardless of your place of birth, with one of your parents a Thai national you are Thai by birth and your birth certificate should show this." My daughter's BC means nothing to be able to live in LOS without additional paperwork. And that additional paperwork is either using the Non-O visa approach or obtaining a Thai BC (which is not automatic).

So once again: Just because I am a US citizen, my wife is Thai, and my daughter was born in the USA, the USA BC for my daughter alone does not state that she is Thai nor allows her to live in Thailand.

May I ask: Are you a USA citizen, are you married to a Thai, and have you had children born in the USA? Have you personally experinced having your USA born children being able to live in Thailand on that USA BC and nothing else? Please enlighten me, as I would like to hear how you accomplished that unless it was some time back and the rules/regulations were different.

[dingdongrb]

Chapter 1. Acquisition of Thai Nationality

Section 7. The following persons acquire Thai nationality by birth:

(1) A person born of a father or a mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom;

The birth certificate proofs someone is Thai, as is shows one of the parents is Thai. It doesn't make you Thai. When one of the parents is Thai the child has Thai nationality by law.

Yes, this is correct, but you are now speaking in regards of the Thai BC, not the original USA one. The Thai government does not recognize the original USA BC alone, it needs to shown (birth from a Thai) by the Thai BC. But in order to obtain the Thai BC you need the original USA BC as well as other documentation. IT'S NOT FREAKIN AUTOMATIC FOLKS! That is my point from the post I replied to.

[percy2]

Yes, this is correct, but you are now speaking in regards of the Thai BC, not the original USA one. The Thai government does not recognize the original USA BC alone, it needs to shown (birth from a Thai) by the Thai BC. But in order to obtain the Thai BC you need the original USA BC as well as other documentation. IT'S NOT FREAKIN AUTOMATIC FOLKS! That is my point from the post I replied to.

The OP was born in Thailand , so her original BC will be a Thai one.

Cheers

[Maestro]

Dingdongrb, my post was in reply to a person who said he was born in Thailand. You must read it in that context.

...Just because she was born to a Thai does not automatically mean she is a Thai citizen. Yes, this would be the case if she was born in Thailand, and then we would have to pursue the other direction (becoming a US citizen).

You have to understand the subtle difference between beeing a Thai national and having proof of Thai citizenship.

Your daughter acquired Thai nationality by birth. The Nationality Act is cristal clear on this point, but from what you say you refrained so far from obtaining for your daughter the documents necessary for her to prove her Thai citizenship.

You are right, though, that the original birth certificate does not indicate the Thai nationality regardless of the place of birth. My sentence construction was faulty.

--

Maestro

[Mario2008]

Chapter 1. Acquisition of Thai Nationality

Section 7. The following persons acquire Thai nationality by birth:

(1) A person born of a father or a mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom;

The birth certificate proofs someone is Thai, as is shows one of the parents is Thai. It doesn't make you Thai. When one of the parents is Thai the child has Thai nationality by law.

Yes, this is correct, but you are now speaking in regards of the Thai BC, not the original USA one. The Thai government does not recognize the original USA BC alone, it needs to shown (birth from a Thai) by the Thai BC. But in order to obtain the Thai BC you need the original USA BC as well as other documentation. IT'S NOT FREAKIN AUTOMATIC FOLKS! That is my point from the post I replied to.

Like maestro said, you confuse having thai nationality with proving thai citizenship. As far as the US-birthcertificate goes, itt might not show the nationality of the parents. But that is not relevant to the fact if your daughter is Thai. According to Thai law she is Thai, by way of birth. If she wants a Thai passport or ID-card she has to proof that she is Thai. The proof itself doesn't make her a Thai national, it just confirms her claim.

[TerryLH]

"May I ask: Are you a USA citizen, are you married to a Thai, and have you had children born in the USA? Have you personally experinced having your USA born children being able to live in Thailand on that USA BC and nothing else? Please enlighten me, as I would like to hear how you accomplished that unless it was some time back and the rules/regulations were different."

Mr. dingdongrb

Been there, done that.

US citizen, Married to a Thai. Child, born in US, now living in Th.

It was a very easy process to get her BC and PP. All that was needed was the US BC, which shows the nationality of her mom.

A copy of her BC and showing her mothers PP was all that was needed for the Thai PP. It' just a form they fill in.

With that, fill in another form, pay the money, and get her Thai PP. As I said. Very easy.

I never claimed your daughter could live here without a visa just based on the US BC. My point was that it's very easy to get a Thai BC. When you got your Non O visas, you probably could have gotten the Thai BC and PP at the same time.

I made a choice. I decided that it was easier to hand over one form to get the Thai BC, then to have to fill out forms and pay money every year for visas to live in a place where with proper documentation she can live free. Another form and some money for the PP. Bummer about the PP is you have to pay money every 5 years to renew it or get a new one.

I can't read your mind, but to me you come across as thinking that doing the paperwork for her BC is something difficult. In my experience, it was one of the easier Thai government things I've ever had to do.

So there's no conflict here, i agree that she can't live here just on her US BC.

As I said earlier, there hasn't been a downside to her having two passports.

Good luck

Terry

[dingdongrb]

Dingdongrb, my post was in reply to a person who said he was born in Thailand. You must read it in that context.

...Just because she was born to a Thai does not automatically mean she is a Thai citizen. Yes, this would be the case if she was born in Thailand, and then we would have to pursue the other direction (becoming a US citizen).

You have to understand the subtle difference between beeing a Thai national and having proof of Thai citizenship.

Your daughter acquired Thai nationality by birth. The Nationality Act is cristal clear on this point, but from what you say you refrained so far from obtaining for your daughter the documents necessary for her to prove her Thai citizenship.

You are right, though, that the original birth certificate does not indicate the Thai nationality regardless of the place of birth. My sentence construction was faulty.

--

Maestro

You are correct Maestro, I read your comment, "Regardless of your place of birth, with one of your parents a Thai national you are Thai by birth and your birth certificate should show this." out of context from the OPs concern. I took it as just a bold statement and did not assume you were replying that it was the OPs situation (being born in LOS). My apologizes as I wanted everyone to be clear. I now understand your meaning. (I can be a little slow at times, please bear with me.... )

[dingdongrb]

It was a very easy process to get her BC and PP. All that was needed was the US BC, which shows the nationality of her mom.

A copy of her BC and showing her mothers PP was all that was needed for the Thai PP. It' just a form they fill in.

With that, fill in another form, pay the money, and get her Thai PP. As I said. Very easy.

I never claimed your daughter could live here without a visa just based on the US BC. My point was that it's very easy to get a Thai BC. When you got your Non O visas, you probably could have gotten the Thai BC and PP at the same time.

I made a choice. I decided that it was easier to hand over one form to get the Thai BC, then to have to fill out forms and pay money every year for visas to live in a place where with proper documentation she can live free. Another form and some money for the PP. Bummer about the PP is you have to pay money every 5 years to renew it or get a new one.

I can't read your mind, but to me you come across as thinking that doing the paperwork for her BC is something difficult. In my experience, it was one of the easier Thai government things I've ever had to do.

So there's no conflict here, i agree that she can't live here just on her US BC.

As I said earlier, there hasn't been a downside to her having two passports.

Good luck

Terry

Terry,

It's very good now to hear from someone first hand that has gone through the situation that I will some day go through. I have posted on this forum when I first became a member asking for this specific information (obtaining a Thai BC for my daughter) and got not a single repsonse. I then contacted the Thai Embassy in the US for the information.

Are you now telling me that I can get a Thai BC for my daughter here in LOS? That's what your above response seems to be saying. I thought, from what I have been told, that I could only do this at a Thai Embassy/Consulate back in the USA????

[TerryLH]

As far as I know you can only get the BC in the US at a consulate or at the embassy.

You might inquire whether you can do it by mail, or not. If so, you could then get her PP here in Thailand.

Terry

[Brigante7]

I've just been through the process for my 10 month old son (Farang dad, Thai mum, born in UK), had to go to London with his BC, my passport, wifes passport, marriage certificate and passport photo, took 2.5 hours of hel_l but will be worth it, cost was £31 including £6 for postage for new passport. Very easy process overall in terms of paperwork involved.

[Mario2008]

From another tread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Passpor...45#entry2123445

it seems that the best way to go is indeed to apply for a Thai BC in the US. But this can be done by mail.

[dingdongrb]

From another tread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Passpor...45#entry2123445

it seems that the best way to go is indeed to apply for a Thai BC in the US. But this can be done by mail.

Thanks Mario, as I knew fully well already that this could be done through the mail to the US (Thai Embassy in DC). However from Terry's post above he states, "My point was that it's very easy to get a Thai BC. When you got your Non O visas, you probably could have gotten the Thai BC and PP at the same time." This implies that I could get my daughter's BC & PP when we got our Non-O visas. Needless to say that this once again is not true information (unless once again I have read this out of context) as we obtain our Non-O visa right here in the LOS.

Seems to me that most of the information you obtain here on TV isn't always as accurate as you would like it to be...

[Maestro]

...as we obtain our Non-O visa right here in the LOS...

A visa is normally obtained outside Thailand, from a Thai embassy or consulate. One notable exception is the obtention of a generic non-immigrant visa – not a non-O visa – from an immigration office when applying for a change of visa prior to applying for an extension of stay.

...US citizen, Married to a Thai. Child, born in US, now living in Th...

On first reading of Terry’s post referenced above I also thought that he obtained the Thai birth certificate for his child from a Thai consulate in the US but the “now living in Thailand” could lead one to believe that he did so in Thailand.

I am not absolutely sure but I believe that in Thailand one can get a foreign birth certificate translated into Thai, have the translation certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and then use this for the house registration and application for the Thai passport, where applicable also for the application for the Thai ID. Has anybody done this?

--

Maestro

[Mario2008]

Just checked the US embassy website.

U.S. Consular officers are not empowered to authenticate public documents issued in the United States. Such documents include vital records (birth, marriage, death and divorce), as well as academic, commercial, or other credentials. Consular Officers do not have access to the records of the issuing office or the seal of the custodian of these records.

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/notarial-services.html

It means the process of autentication must be done in the US and at the Thai embassy in Washington.

[JimGant]

U.S. Consular officers are not empowered to authenticate public documents issued in the United States. It means the process of autentication must be done in the US and at the Thai embassy in Washington.

Authentication can NOT be done at the Thai Embassy in Washington. But, it can be done at the State Department -- and such authentication is what the Thai Embassy will want for authenticity.

See this link: State Dept Authentication

[Mario2008]

Correct. The line should have been: and at te Thai embassy in Washington apply for a Thai birth certificate.

[Maestro]

And I was talking about

Step 1: if already in Thailand, get the US birth certificate translated into Thai

Step 2: get the translation certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Step 3: use this certified translation to apply in Thailand for the Thai passport

In have highlighted above in bold the parts I failed to include in my earlier post and which seems to have led to the misunderstanding that I meant certification of the translation by a US government official.

--

Maestro

[TerryLH]

For clarification, I got the Thai BC at the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles prior to moving to Thailand.

If it can be done by mail, what are you waiting for?