Down At The Wat, What's Going On.

[Cuban]

I'm not buddhist, my GF is sincere in her beliefs and attends the normal Wat events, candle walking (three times round the Wat etc.) and the feasting days etc. Sometimes when it is important to her I allow myself to be dragged along and normally sit at the back out of the way or when we attend her home village Wat I sit with the male village elders while women and children sit en-mass in the middle. (It is on those occasions I do feel most welcomed as I am a village fixture for a few years now.)

A few days ago we went for a first visit to a different Wat (just outside Pattaya) with a family group that is a friend of GF.

At the suggestion of one of the head (?) monks, he was the main MC for the day it seemed, I was asked to sit front and center - face to face with him. Apart from our small party there were about 20 people in total sitting in a small room. I have encountered the hold the string prayer thing - I guess the string links people together and on to the Buddha Icon? Also the splashy water thing - a blessing? Which is I assume is the over all function of the event.

But the new one for me on this day was being under a long sheet of white cotton, most of us were under this flowing cover as if playing tents with some words muttered/chanted then the sheet was removed - turned over - then replaced on our heads and more words spoken in the same manner. What is that all about?

The other question I have relates to money.

I believe (true or not) that monks do not handle money directly, they just don't or are forbidden from doing so? I thought that a lay person was in attendance to do this lowly function, and have always noticed such an assistant pottering around. But on this occassion the offerings of money that were not placed within seal envelopes (I assumed to allow the monks not to touch money) were gathered up by one of the head MC monk and placed on the plate along with flowers, candles and envelopes etc.

This thread was prompted by this earlier one, on Bad Monk Experiances. I didn't consider this encounter bad in any way, but just wanted to understand good monk practice vs bad and get a handle on the whole Thai Buddhist following vs Good Luck Blessings and lotto success wishing.

[rockyysdt]

At the suggestion of one of the head (?) monks, he was the main MC for the day it seemed, I was asked to sit front and center - face to face with him. Apart from our small party there were about 20 people in total sitting in a small room. I have encountered the hold the string prayer thing - I guess the string links people together and on to the Buddha Icon? Also the splashy water thing - a blessing? Which is I assume is the over all function of the event.

Coincidentally I had a similar experience last May.

I attended a Watt with my GF and the female members of her family.

When the MC monk spotted me he wanted me to sit before him.

He then proceeded to talk about his Sydney trip for an interminable period.

What should have been a sermon for the faithful turned out to be a padded session with nothing worthwhile to talk about.

No pearls of wisdom!

[bankei]

I have heard about the white sheet ceremony before, but never seen one. The one I heard about involved a Thai girl obtaining a new name from the monk. This is supposed to be some sort of good luck thing - change your name and personality at the same time and get rid of the negative past sort of thing.

As for money, monks aren't supposed to handle gold or silver which would mean money, but probably 99% of the monks in Thailand do handle it. Some try to follow the spirit of the rule and touch it, or handle it, but not be attached to it and hoard it etc. Others crave it and try to get as much as possible!

[PeaceBlondie]

While we are on this topic, I want to respectfully ask about wat attendance for non-Buddhists who either have another faith, or have a strong personal conviction that all religious rites are meaningless. Does Thai culture expect Christians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, rabid atheists, and similar farang, to just take part in what appears to be mumbo-jumbo? How do you politely excuse yourself? Can you just say that it is against your own belief to take part? Will Thais be offended that you do not take part?

[Brucenkhamen]

While we are on this topic, I want to respectfully ask about wat attendance for non-Buddhists who either have another faith, or have a strong personal conviction that all religious rites are meaningless. Does Thai culture expect Christians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, rabid atheists, and similar farang, to just take part in what appears to be mumbo-jumbo? How do you politely excuse yourself? Can you just say that it is against your own belief to take part? Will Thais be offended that you do not take part?

I don't think thais expect farang to take part in their mumbo jumbo at the wat, though they appreciate it if you do. In the west you often see a contingent of farang husbands sitting at the back.

[ShinMeiDokuJoh]

I have heard about the white sheet ceremony before, but never seen one. .....

Hi,

all what I know about so far is that the water splashing ceremony is a kind of blessing

and the ceremony with the white sheets is to put away bad things happening

to you in life caused by bad spirits.

But maybe there are also other explanations for these ceremonies.

[Cuban]

....to just take part in what appears to be mumbo-jumbo?

Hmmmmm, a good question - as I asked what MC Monk just said - or what was the basic overview of the sing-song they just had. No translated means are offered. Much like an average street kid hearing a Catholic father mutter on in Latin for 30 minutes - just mumbo jumbo. I've sure many average Thai just attend Wat to get a dose of religion administered.

How do you politely excuse yourself?

I normally sit to one side (or at the back as you say), then only accept a different position when offered - it's polite to accept such invitations. I just sit there and observe - I have no religious experiances, but do like the food when a shared meal follows the session.

Can you just say that it is against your own belief to take part?

I have seen other farang at the popular Wats or during festival times, sitting next to their partner; pouring the water and 'Gaab' (the three times Wai to Buddha - head to floor & wai with hands) and do the rest of the '..going through the motions', whether they are doing this because they are buddhist or just playing at it, I do not know. But it does look odd - however I accept it is their choice. What I do find funny is during the rites that involve men sitting apart from women and children, whne the farang man insists on sitting next to his partner, I am thankful that I have always accepted invites from one of the elder men to sit with them off to one side next to the stage/front area - last time was during the rites to accept a son of a family friend into the monk-hood. We all had to pose for pictures too next to Nok to mark the occassion.

Will Thais be offended that you do not take part?

I been to many wats as a tourist and with my GF, only once did a monk ask me not to go inside - there was some in-house event happening at the time. I've also walked around wats during construction - only time you can get up really close to the icon's stage and see how they make these buildings. Very nice from a distance - but up close you can see it's all pre cast moldings held together with glue.

[Pakeha]

The other question I have relates to money.

I believe (true or not) that monks do not handle money directly, they just don't or are forbidden from doing so? I thought that a lay person was in attendance to do this lowly function, and have always noticed such an assistant pottering around. But on this occassion the offerings of money that were not placed within seal envelopes (I assumed to allow the monks not to touch money) were gathered up by one of the head MC monk and placed on the plate along with flowers, candles and envelopes etc.

It used to be totally forbidden for Monks to handle money - this would reduce desire and attachment for material things. As things became more developed they ammended the rule to be practical to the needs of modern life - e.g. check out the monks smoking and playing video games. How could they possibly do that if they couldn't handle money? But seriously - that is why you see them handling money now - practicality.

Edited August 4, 2008 by camerata
Fixed broken quote.

[Brucenkhamen]

It used to be totally forbidden for Monks to handle money - this would reduce desire and attachment for material things. As things became more developed they ammended the rule to be practical to the needs of modern life - e.g. check out the monks smoking and playing video games. How could they possibly do that if they couldn't handle money? But seriously - that is why you see them handling money now - practicality.

I think you'll find at most Meditation or Forest Wats monks don't handle money.

Only those belonging to the majority "bad" monks do, goodness knows the percentage though.

[camerata]

e.g. check out the monks smoking and playing video games. How could they possibly do that if they couldn't handle money? But seriously - that is why you see them handling money now - practicality.

Monks don't need to handle money to get their hands on cigarettes - lay persons may donate them.

I think practicality is a factor in monks handling money, though. In former times, there were many "temple boys" to handle the money when, for example, a monk went on a trip. Without temple boys or dedicated lay supporters, it's difficult for a monk to go anywhere without handling money of some kind.

[Brucenkhamen]

I think practicality is a factor in monks handling money, though. In former times, there were many "temple boys" to handle the money when, for example, a monk went on a trip. Without temple boys or dedicated lay supporters, it's difficult for a monk to go anywhere without handling money of some kind.

In the West Monks of the Ajahn Chah tradition are able to do it, and without the understanding and support of the majority of the population as they have in Thailand.

If they can do it in the West then doing it in Thailand should be a breeze, I don't think there is any excuse for a monk to handle money unless he has no interest in following the Vinaya.

[camerata]

In the West Monks of the Ajahn Chah tradition are able to do it, and without the understanding and support of the majority of the population as they have in Thailand.

How do they do it there?

[Brucenkhamen]

In the West Monks of the Ajahn Chah tradition are able to do it, and without the understanding and support of the majority of the population as they have in Thailand.

How do they do it there?

Lay supporters handle the money for them whilst they are based at a monastary. It only gets complicated when they are travelling, usually they need to arrange for someone to meet them or pick them up.

I know many of them have done Tudong in the West as well, sometimes they take a lay person with them sometimes they don't and that's when it really becomes a challenge. I've heard stories of monks standing with bowl in hand at the entrance of a supermarket, hoping that somebody will realise why they are there, and having to explain to people that they can't accept money or uncooked food. I've heard of others knocking on farm doors asking for shelter for the night in the barn. Makes life a bit more interesting than the predictability inside the Wat, which is the purpose of Tudong i think.

[fabianfred]

As for handling money... i know even twenty years ago when I first came to Thailand.... the monks in Bangkok used to travel free on buses and river ferries, but many ferry owners were starting to insist on payment..

A normal town/city monk has to get around for various reasons, particularly if going to study at the main University temples from their own small temple, so sometimes they need to pay fares etc.

Meditation monks who stay in forest temples and do not get involved in civil ceremonies such as house-warmings, funerals, etc. have little need to travel much and their requirements are taken care of by devout laypeople.... Being seen as the REAL followers of the Dhamma path, the forest/meditation monks usually attract serious followers too and do not have problems in these areas.

Western monks living in their own countries, and even doing tudong, are benefiting from the popularity of Thailand as a tourist location, since many westerners now know what a monk and his alms bowl mean.

You should never allow yourself to be forced into doing some ceremony which you are not comfortable with. Many thais are happy to see a westerner taking part, since they believe he will get merit from it, and they want others to enjoy making merit too.