Dvd Burners In Thailand

[kabal1234]

Following on from a previous thread where Firefoxx started me on the path to back up using a DVD burner, I'd like to hear what others who currently own them have to say about their particular burners.

Two major brands easy to find here are Liteon and Sony, though the Liton seems much more reasonably priced. Some points I'd like to elucidate.

Any success with dual layer burners? Even though dual layer burning is first generation technology can I still conclude single layer burning on such dual layer device is stable. So even though the cost of the media at the moment precludes one from economically buring dual layers, do you think it's worth buying a dual layer burner in anticipation of the discs cost falling?

Can you describe particular disc brands that you've had success with for DVD burner x? I've heard discs go as low as 20B, but I've had bad experiences with cheap CD and believe DVD are even more suseptible to wear, scratches etc.

Any other important points?

Thanks

[Ian_B]

I have been very happy with my Samsung 8x burner, bought from Fortune for 7000'ish

I would steer clear of all the unbranded blanks though. Always good practice to get branded ones as they are pretty much guaranteed to work and more importantly be usable months later

[Mr_Happy]

I choose Plextor never let me down...

[Firefoxx]

I'll go into some detail on my experiences with DVD burners:

I bought a Plextor 8x 708a drive last year. It was great with burning CDRs. It could also burn most boxed, (ie. expensive) brand name DVD discs well. However, with nearly all other DVD discs (+ or -), I could burn successfully but could not read the whole disc on any of my drives (my dvd-rom drive, a pioneer DVD player, and the Plextor itself). This goes for ANY speed that I chose, from 1x to 4x. I wasn't pleased at all with my first foray into DVD-R, especially from a premium company like Plextor.

I recently replaced it with the Pioneer A08 (normal, bulk) which I bought in the US for $100. There is a hacked firmware available which allowed for any speed burning on any DVD disc. This is nice since for dvd+/-R burning, the speed is limited by the disc's settings (with a few drives allowing 8x burning on certain 4x media). I was able to burn some 1x Fuji media (which I mistakenly bought a 50 pack of, thinking it was 8x) at 8x and even 12x (speed confirmed by burn time). The discs came out fine.

As for disc compatibility with the Pioneer, I've tried princo discs, printable discs, fuji discs, verbatims, optorite no-name discs, philips discs, and everything in between. All have written fine at high speeds (I write all discs at 8x, since 8x discs aren't common in Thailand), and all are 100% readable on my players. Of course, for any important data, I would write it on name-brand discs. However, older no-name discs have not deteriorated yet, and are still readable. The bad thing about this writer is the slow (slower than my old plextor) CD-R writing speed. Otherwise, I'm totally satisfied with this drive. Beyond my expectations.

Unfortunately, the only model available here is the boxed A08XLA (7,600 baht), for which the hacked firmware does not work. The XLA has a better faceplate, honeycomb casing, and quiet operation.

A note about the REALLY fast burners (12x, 16x). It seems that putting them in enclosures (both firewire and usb2.0) will limit their burn ability. I tried putting the Pioneer in a firewire/usb2 enclosure, and the data kept lagging behind, causing the buffer underrun protection to kick in repeatedly. Writing at 4x or 8x was fine. When I put it into the case (with 80 conductor IDE cable), it could write with no problems at 12x/16x. Maybe with a Firewire2 (800mbps) enclosure it would be OK.

[francois]

hi'

I'm about to get one, two options, single layer or DL ...

in dual layer, I'll go for a pioneer dvr108, if singleL I'll go for either a plextor or a liteon ...

I noticed something interesting, it's not only the writing speed, but also, the reading one, the access-time, cd burning time etc ...

quite a few burner use the liteon engine ... but difference in specifications are small, and for some, useless to buy the most expensive burner because of a tiny difference in the access-time.

more important to look at writing speed and reading one.

the pioneer is a 16x and 4x on DL, all the others except the plextor 716A,

are burning DL in 2.4x .. 45mn, only 15mn in 4x ... think

if I look at specifications, for a good balance, pioneer is a good choice, and it's only at 80$ on the web ...

you have to consider that there are no 16x disc certified for the moment ...

don't worry too much for prices, they will go down fast, it's getting popular.

francois

[Firefoxx]

Right now the max speed for DVD+R dual layer (no DVD-R dual yet) is 4x. So it will take around 25 minutes to write a full 9GB disc at top speed. This is compared to around 6 minutes to write a full 4.4GB disc at 12x (or 16x, there is less than 1 minute difference between the two speeds). Couple that with the fact that discs are still pretty expensive (180 baht is the cheapest I could find, typical is around 400-500 baht), and that it's only double capacity.

However, having the ability to write dual layer is a nice feature, for when media prices come down.

The A08 (bulk and the XL) without the hacked firmware can write some 8x discs at 12x and 16x. With the hacked firmware, it can write pretty much any disc at 16x (it will spin down during the write if the disc can't sustain the speed).

[kabal1234]

I'm about to get one, two options, single layer or DL ...

in dual layer, I'll go for a pioneer dvr108, if singleL I'll go for either a plextor or a liteon ...

Let me know which one you go for, I'm still undecided. Have you looked at any of the liteon DL burners? The pioneer looks interesting too, though at panthip it looks like liteon have a generally lower price.

[kabal1234]

Right now the max speed for DVD+R dual layer (no DVD-R dual yet) is 4x.  So it will take around 25 minutes to write a full 9GB disc at top speed.  This is compared to around 6 minutes to write a full 4.4GB disc at 12x (or 16x, there is less than 1 minute difference between the two speeds).  Couple that with the fact that discs are still pretty expensive (180 baht is the cheapest I could find, typical is around 400-500 baht), and that it's only double capacity.

I'm not really too concerned about speed. I mean it might take me a week to download 4.5G, so an extra few minutes of burning is not a big issue. I read in some reviews that important data should only be written at 4x anyway as higher speeds may introduce certain errors?!?!

I'm more concerned about producing coasters. I mean I really believe I will need top quality discs which by the looks may cost 100B each... so to burn all the data on my HDD (120GB) considering I'll probably only be able to fit ~4.1G ger disc on average, I'll need around 30 discs. This is 3000B just for discs. Now I could get a 120GB HDD for about an extra 700 or so. So, I'm really begining to wonder at the economics of all this now. I really thought disc prices would have come down a lot more than what that have.

[astral]

I went for the LG model as it gives the most flexibility, supporting all formats:

DVD-R

DVD+R

DVD-ROM

until the format wars settle down.

The LG also gave me the best price at the time that I was looking.

[Firefoxx]

Actually, pretty much all current DVD writers support both formats. The format wars have pretty much ended, and there is no real winner, as both are common. The new war: Blu-ray Vs HD-DVD.

If your one and only goal is backup, then get the HDD and an enclosure. If not, then get the DVD writer, since you can do other things with it (other than store it someplace most of the time).

Don't be too worried about the quality of media. Most of the "expensive" media sold here is made in the same factories as the cheap media (Taiwan, Singapore). The only media I'd trust really important information to is media made in Japan, and those are rare (and expensive).

Each disc can hold 4.4GB, so your 114GB (it's not 120GB) will need 26 discs to backup (if the HDD is totally full). Unless the backups are the only place the data will be, I wouldn't use expensive media. 26 discs of media will be around 500 baht.

[francois]

hi'

I go for pioneer ... ordered today on the net

and surely following an external disk ... probably from LaCie ...

I'll tell you soon

francois

[waldwolf]

For info:

Everything you want to know about DVD's, and more!

[francois]

hi'

last minute change ...

went for a NEC DL 16x and 4x for dvd-rw, 4x for dl and cd are 48-24-48,

took a LaCie external 80gb ... could not resist ..Xmas price and free-delivery

I'll tell you about when it's on

all this for a 180 euros

francois

[chanchao]

Just got a Gigabyte 16x Double Layer drive.. (GO-W1608A). Very happy with it! Good price too, at 4300 baht. (Chiang Mai)

Cheers,

Chanchao

[astral]

Has anyone seen disks that are faster 4X in Thailand?

Where?

What brand?

[Firefoxx]

There are 8x discs appearing at the major computer centers (pantip, itmall, etc.), usually from Verbatim. Many drives allow writing certain 4x discs at 8x, but you have to check which discs those are. Otherwise, you can only write at the rated speed of the disc.

I don't have any trouble with the speed of the disc, as mentioned above, since my hacked pioneer removes the disc restrictions.

[francois]

hi'

so far so good

both ext drive and dvd burner are working properly and at good speed for both.

inside ext drive from LaCIE are western digital drives (ata100)

the dvd burner is as I say a nec bought on the web for 80$ no software, but good machine. up to 48x on cd and 16x on dvd (which I didn't test coz no 16x disc), did not test the DL dvd yet ... I'll tell you

satisfied by both reliability and performances.

francois

[kabal1234]

francois,

how much did you pay for the NEC?

What's its model number?

and where did you get it... available at panthip?

KaBaL

[Abandon]

I bought a cheapo, no name (that I can recall) brand. 4x single layer burner "+" discs only. Discs at 20 baht each (after searching). Wrote 1 dvd that I sent ot my friend. He can't open it other than on his laptop. started the second disc and found the open/close button didn't work. Used windows to open the draw, and started burning. 95% and the machine siezed up. Couldn't open the draw, couldn't cancel the software operation. Couldn't explore in Windows. Pulled the plug, took it back and it's been 2 weeks with no word.

But anyway - the Hard drive option - hard drives are finite too, and if you kept the discs in a reasonable place and temperature then shoudn't be a problem. Also you'd have to check your power supply fitting new hard drives, and also the cooling as the new ones are very hot. Personally I back up onto CDs which I never lend out, and only read on my own machine. I think that is better than using a new hard drive. Besides, you will soon have new stuff to burn, and you can't keep adding hard drives like you can discs....

On another note, Kabal, as you are off work for the moment, can I hop in a taxi and come get Monkey?? I can bring an 80 gig HD which should be enough, and would be fun.... The Project is still looking for a 50% backer in China, but we have a mention in a Chinese documentary coming out on the 6th of Feb

So anyway, steer clear of the 2100 baht "madeinChinabyOrphans" brand name..

[Firefoxx]

Since francois quoted the price in dollars, I doubt that it was bought in Thailand.

The earlier DVD burners had a lot of problems with compatibility, just like the early CD burners. The newest models are much better in this respect, but there may still be problems. My friend just bought an LG 16x drive, only to find that it can't write to Princo CDRs.

I've tried 16x DVD writing on some 4x and 8x discs (16x discs can't be found yet), and it's not much different (time-wise) from 12x. With 8x, you use about 8 minutes, 12x equals around 6 minutes, and 16x is around 5-6 minutes. Since I can get 12x with my 1x discs, I'll stick with that.

[Phil Conners]

FWIW, IT City (Tukcom, top floor) currently have a promotion for Samsung TS-H552 DVD+/-R/RW - from the box:

48x CD-ROM

40x CD-R

32x CD-RW

16x DVD+R DVD-R DVD-ROM

4x DVD+RW DVD-RW Double Layer

Current promotion price 3,590 baht including 20 8x DVD-R CD's.

I got one and am happy with it so far. Had a Samsung CD-R/RW already and was happy with that as well.

[night_rider]

I have an NEC 8x single side burner that I've had for a year or so. No complaints. I understand there is a firmware hack that will allow it to burn dual layer but the media will have to come down before I even make the attempt.

I did a lot of research on DVD media. Like many users I grabbed some cheap discs when I picked up the drive and later regretted it. My bottom line conclusion was to choose Ritek/Ridata DVD discs. I've been very happy with my choice. No coasters. Very compatible. Reasonably priced; I buy 100 blanks for US $40. (B16 per). I usually buy 4x discs and they'll burn at 6x or 8x in real world use. Usually 6x.

Of course I didn't keep all the articles I read when making this choice so long ago but I was able to dig up a few links for you :

CDR Zone Ritek review

Problems w/Ritek Grade B/C discs. Shows how to tell Grade A,B,C discs from Ritek. Ritek/Ridata brands A-OK

Also if you're burning DVD for playback I highly recommend the VideoHelp website and database. You can see user burns for different media and whether they'll work on the DVD player that you own.

VideoHelp.com

[kabal1234]

For anyone still interested, here are the results of my (quite extensive) dvd burner research. I'll list them in order of best to worst. Please don't be offended if I list *yours* as "worst"... they are basically my summation of the general consensus of respected forum members of cdfreaks and cdlabs, and of course opinions vary somewhat. Also, if your drive works for you... then that is all that really matters. Individual requirements may also dictate what's best for you.

1) Benq DW1620A - Since updated firmware has been released, this model has been extremely popular with serious dvd experts. Can be found top floor of Panthip (IT Mall). They are out of stock right now but I got them to order one in for me. Cost 4,100B. THIS IS A BARGAIN. Top choice by quite a ways IMHO.

2) TDK 1616DLN - Basically a rebranded NEC ND3500 which closely rivals the Benq among forum experts. An excellent burner, but at around 6000B this product does not come close to matching the Benq.

3) Pioneer DVR A08XLA (108 OEM) - A very good burner. Along with my top 2 choices it matches them for acceptable media type and quality. If you MUST use Princo and other low quality media this is also a good choice. But at around 6000B (OEM a little cheaper) it is again quite pricey compared to the Benq. You may also wish to hold out for the new 109 model due shortly.

4) LG GSA-4160B - A bit of a step down from here but still a good burner and can be had for around 3,600B. A good value for money buy.

5) Liteon 1633S - Once King a couple of years ago, newer models have not kept up with the competition and results seem highly variable especially with cheap media. Has good community support and good at bypassing certain CD copy protection. Cost around 4000B. Don't bother really.

6) Samsung TS-H552U - Some seem to get along fine with this model, but a lot of horror stories out there so be carefull. Seen it promoted for around 3,500 and OEM models for 3,100. A risky buy, but you may pull it off as madsere has and is laughing. You've been warned.

Sony - Mostly rebranded Liteons, and way over priced.

Other choices not looked into are Plextor, Asus, Gigabyte. Some Plextor models can be great... others bad. Asus and Gigabyte seem to be rebranded models for a higher price.

This post is for the benefit of others looking into purchasing a burner.

[chanchao]

You missed the Gigabyte GO-W1608

It's cheap, 16 x / Dual Layer, available in Thailand and works really well. Google for the reviews.

Or check here:

http://www.ocworkbench.com/2004/gigabyte/GO-W1608A/p1.htm

[Firefoxx]

If you want a Pioneer 108 but don't want to pay the high price, the Asus DRW1604P is the same drive. You can flash it with the pioneer firmware and get unlocked speeds.

It's really a shame they don't sell the OEM Pioneer here. In the US, Newegg has already started selling the 109 model for $93. Improvements are in 6X dual layer writing (vs 4x) and 40X CDR writing.

[fisherd3]

Sony - Mostly rebranded Liteons, and way over priced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very interesting to hear that sony units are rebranded Liteons have read great reviews of liteon product in UK and it sells for peanuts, Now with Sony endorsement, they must be one of the top brands.

Edited January 27, 2005 by fisherd3

[Phil Conners]

@kabal1234, interesting we have such different experiences - I had a Benq CD-RW about 2 years ago; it didn't even outlast it's warrenty before the eject mechanism stopped working, nor was it particularlly succesfull in burning CD's. You think perhaps it's a matter of the "full package", i.e. remaining PC hardware, software, media and not just the writer?

[kabal1234]

You missed the Gigabyte GO-W1608

No I didn't... the Gigabyte drive is a Liteon rebadge.

[kabal1234]

@kabal1234, interesting we have such different experiences - I had a Benq CD-RW about 2 years ago; it didn't even outlast it's warrenty before the eject mechanism stopped working, nor was it particularlly succesfull in burning CD's.  You think perhaps it's a matter of the "full package", i.e. remaining PC hardware, software, media and not just the writer?

Two years is a long time in burner technology.

These are not MY experiences but my summation of experts at cdfreaks and cdlabs. I have never owned a dvd burner and thus cannot speak from personal experience and therfore rely on the knowledge of others more qualifyed.

Check the current reviews:

hxxp://www.cdfreaks.com/article/159

hxxp://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=11657

[joka]

hello,

the pioneer ao8 is available at zeer, bottom floor.