Discovery About Udon Girlfriend's Gender

[skippybangkok]

Actually I root in for deductive logic and am against fallacious reasoning, regardless of whose side it comes from. I have a highly tuned in built detector system for picking up both, for which I paid about 40 000 GBP over 5 years to acquire and am still paying off at the bank.

Am in awe of your financial strength and reasoning capability

[Merlin]

The OP should just stick in there and see what happens.

No matter what the gender of any two people in a relationship, there are all sorts of possible dramatic changes ahead. One person may get paralyzed, or suffer some kind of accident or illness which requires 24hr carer. How will the other person react? With love, and stay by their side forever? "in sickness or in health, for richer for poorer"? Or will they turn their back and move on to the next one, like sending a pet off to get put down?

No matter who you are, your body is going to change.

Some of the other posters in this thread should think on that.

Who's going to love you in your old age?

Who will look after you when your body is weak and feeble - and smelly?

What if you get a mental disease?

It happens, you know. It could happen to you.

Some people get hung up on body shape, some people get totally over-the-top on the rights and wrongs of gender, and "being gay". That might be ok for you depending on your upbringing and the generally accepted views of all around you, but that doesn't mean the totally opposite view is completely acceptable in another time and place.

"The world is flat" - all the most highly respected, wealthiest, learned, most devout people knew that as a fact. They were so sure of it they imprisoned and tortured anyone who said it wasn't so.

Other people thought it was completely justified to kill millions of people because they believed something different.

Even right now today there are people who would consider the very idea of a black man running for president to be the stupidest thing they have ever heard.

but lets get back to bodies.

How many merkins have fallen in love with their sexy little highschool sweetheart in the cheerleaders uniform only to find themselves, 7 years after the wedding day, married to a horrible fat smelly ugly pig with droopy breasts and cellulite thighs?

So what are relationships about really?

The physical thing is transient. It has to be. We're only young for a short while.

What matters is between your ears.

[lazeeboy]

maybe 2 or 3 years ago the BBC ran a series called "Bangkok Bound" each episode was 2 or 3 stories about people connected in some way to Thailand, one such story was about a guy who like the poster met a girl who turned out to be a guy, anyway, end of story was they stayed together and ran a bar in some tourist area of Thailand both very happy, if it feels right then do it.

that was me

[OxfordWill]

That's more like it, skippy.

[Svenn]

maybe 2 or 3 years ago the BBC ran a series called "Bangkok Bound" each episode was 2 or 3 stories about people connected in some way to Thailand, one such story was about a guy who like the poster met a girl who turned out to be a guy, anyway, end of story was they stayed together and ran a bar in some tourist area of Thailand both very happy, if it feels right then do it.

that was me

I saw a clip of that on the internet, they cut out quickly though, just as your wife is explaining the price of something (seems like she's having fun knowing she's being filmed ). That's cool that you're so open about it, putting yourself on tv and such. Best of luck to you, I hope those bars are succeeding.

I could care less about if the lad goes with boy/girl/katoey - however I think he should have had the right to decide from early on if this was the choice he really wanted. However he was robbed of the choice by the lady in question who wasn't honest about the situation. If he was given the choice maybe it wouldn't have started anything with said lady or maybe he would have least it was up to him.

One of the things I like about most transgendered - they will tell you from word go, so there is no confusion. This sort of honesty should be applauded and its really the right thing to do.

This is how I feel sometimes, like I ought to have had the right to know. I know from her perspective she feels somewhat like she didn't have to tell me because she feels like she was never a boy, but the fact that she did end up telling me means she didn't feel like silence was justified either, and she knew the disclosure could be a deal-breaker since she was a afraid I'd leave. I haven't left, and in my more cynical moments, I think maybe she knew I couldn't once I was emotionally and somewhat financially involved with her. Apparently the mode she was in before she told me is called 'stealth,' which doesn't exactly conjure up positive images. I suppose the situation I'm in is really no different than the common situation of the guy who loses attraction to his less-well-off girlfriend but knows she's depending on him emotionally and financially- he cares about her enough that he can't leave her in the dust but he can't make the final marital commitment to her either. Not saying I feel that way all the time, just occassionally. I still don't know what I feel and I have to give it time:

The OP should just stick in there and see what happens.

No matter what the gender of any two people in a relationship, there are all sorts of possible dramatic changes ahead. One person may get paralyzed, or suffer some kind of accident or illness which requires 24hr carer. How will the other person react? With love, and stay by their side forever? "in sickness or in health, for richer for poorer"? Or will they turn their back and move on to the next one, like sending a pet off to get put down?

[GaiYaang]

But now I really want to feel that this girl really is a girl 100%, and just happened to be born with the wrong organ or something.

Exactly. She was a woman born in a mans body and she fixed it. Thats all. 100% woman. You are both young, you dont know what the future holds, long term you could always adopt. Natural born women sometimes cannot conceive also. Seems until this disclosure you both are well matched to each other. A good companion in life is not so easy to find. Dont let something she couldnt help (being born as the wrong sex) get in the way of both your happiness.

Best of luck.

How come you alway give good advice.

[yabbit]

Another thing to consider is that many lady-boys are really cute and super-sexy in their late teens and into their twenties...but after that, they don't age well. Basically, you have a man aging in a women's body, and trying to manage that is a real nightmare. Have you any seen a hot lady-boy over 30?

We humans aren't perfect idealistic creatures- if she starts looking like a guy in 10 years or losing her hair, I just don't think I can tolerate it. She can still always be my closest friend, and I'd have the utmost concern for her well-being. I just don't know what happens to ladyboys when they get old, anyone know? Do a lot change back to men, or do some just keep on with everyday life as a lady?

They do age like ladies and not like men, hormones is what makes one age like lady or like a man.

[doninusa]

I guess the reason for the lack of realization that something was wrong is the admission that this young man was a virgin at the onset of the relationship. Sad situation with some messed up folks. Choke Dee

[Heng]

Another thing to consider is that many lady-boys are really cute and super-sexy in their late teens and into their twenties...but after that, they don't age well. Basically, you have a man aging in a women's body, and trying to manage that is a real nightmare. Have you any seen a hot lady-boy over 30?

We humans aren't perfect idealistic creatures- if she starts looking like a guy in 10 years or losing her hair, I just don't think I can tolerate it. She can still always be my closest friend, and I'd have the utmost concern for her well-being. I just don't know what happens to ladyboys when they get old, anyone know? Do a lot change back to men, or do some just keep on with everyday life as a lady?

They do age like ladies and not like men, hormones is what makes one age like lady or like a man.

Uh it totally depends on the person. Many do not age well at all (just like anyone else). Pumping your body full of hormones for an entire lifetime can have all kinds of side effects.

[nidhogg]

your girlfriend is feminine, female.

Feminine, yes. female? No. Thats encoded in every cell of the body.

You could sew wings on a cat, and teach it to live solely on mice. Still would not be an owl though.

[PeaceBlondie]

your girlfriend is feminine, female.

Feminine, yes. female? No. Thats encoded in every cell of the body.

You could sew wings on a cat, and teach it to live solely on mice. Still would not be an owl though.

A cat is a totally different species than an owl. Since you quoted me out of context, let me restore it:

"From what you say, Svenn, your girlfriend is feminine, female. But you know what? Males and females are far more alike than most folks think. And a transgendered ex-male is about as feminine as she chooses to be."

I have three daughters, three sons, and 11 grandchildren, who are primarily animal, chordate, mammal, primate, homo sapiens sapiens. Those characteristics define them, biologically. Their gender is almost incidental, accidental, minor key. My elder daughter's degrees do not say "Bachelorette" or "Mistress." There is a tendency by some men to see women as only a vagina to penetrate, yet those ladies have titles such as "Prime Minister," "Monarch," "President," "Boss," etc.

[coventry]

When we all first start out in the womb we are all sexed as girls. Only later do males evolve.

[nidhogg]

your girlfriend is feminine, female.

Feminine, yes. female? No. Thats encoded in every cell of the body.

You could sew wings on a cat, and teach it to live solely on mice. Still would not be an owl though.

A cat is a totally different species than an owl. Since you quoted me out of context, let me restore it:

"From what you say, Svenn, your girlfriend is feminine, female. But you know what? Males and females are far more alike than most folks think. And a transgendered ex-male is about as feminine as she chooses to be."

I have three daughters, three sons, and 11 grandchildren, who are primarily animal, chordate, mammal, primate, homo sapiens sapiens. Those characteristics define them, biologically. Their gender is almost incidental, accidental, minor key. My elder daughter's degrees do not say "Bachelorette" or "Mistress." There is a tendency by some men to see women as only a vagina to penetrate, yet those ladies have titles such as "Prime Minister," "Monarch," "President," "Boss," etc.

And your daughters will never father children, nor your sons be capable of carrying them. "Gender" is encoded. Everything else is just surgery and rubbing bits together.

[PeaceBlondie]

And your daughters will never father children, nor your sons be capable of carrying them. "Gender" is encoded. Everything else is just surgery and rubbing bits together.

Again, there is much more to life than fathering children and becoming impregnated. And there is far less to being a male or female than some sex-obsessive folks care to see. As it has already been mentioned, many men cannot father children even if they had a ten inch organ, and many sexy women with a natural vagina are unable to have babies. As for rubbing bits together......

[robee]

I appreciate all the responses, each of which expresses the range of feelings I've felt at different times: from 'this girl's a dude, that's lied to u, get out of here as quick as possible' to 'this is just a minor issue of organ confusion that she corrected, let's put it behind us and continue making a life together" like lazeeboy's post, who's been together 14 years. Sometimes I think about how she's more feminine than a lot of Western girls I know and saved my life by being my first girl, other times I think about the post below, which scares me to death:

Another thing to consider is that many lady-boys are really cute and super-sexy in their late teens and into their twenties...but after that, they don't age well. Basically, you have a man aging in a women's body, and trying to manage that is a real nightmare. Have you any seen a hot lady-boy over 30?

We humans aren't perfect idealistic creatures- if she starts looking like a guy in 10 years or losing her hair, I just don't think I can tolerate it. She can still always be my closest friend, and I'd have the utmost concern for her well-being. I just don't know what happens to ladyboys when they get old, anyone know? Do a lot change back to men, or do some just keep on with everyday life as a lady?

Tough to know as never heard anything

[bobbysan124]

I appreciate all the responses, each of which expresses the range of feelings I've felt at different times: from 'this girl's a dude, that's lied to u, get out of here as quick as possible' to 'this is just a minor issue of organ confusion that she corrected, let's put it behind us and continue making a life together" like lazeeboy's post, who's been together 14 years. Sometimes I think about how she's more feminine than a lot of Western girls I know and saved my life by being my first girl, other times I think about the post below, which scares me to death:

Another thing to consider is that many lady-boys are really cute and super-sexy in their late teens and into their twenties...but after that, they don't age well. Basically, you have a man aging in a women's body, and trying to manage that is a real nightmare. Have you any seen a hot lady-boy over 30?

We humans aren't perfect idealistic creatures- if she starts looking like a guy in 10 years or losing her hair, I just don't think I can tolerate it. She can still always be my closest friend, and I'd have the utmost concern for her well-being. I just don't know what happens to ladyboys when they get old, anyone know? Do a lot change back to men, or do some just keep on with everyday life as a lady?

How does anyone know how they'll age? You do the best you can. As for the rest, real love is hard to find. Everyone has issues of one sort or another and everyone has their little secrets, lies and things they've done that they're ashamed of. She hates gays etc. You're taken aback by this new knowledge. That's life. You both have issues to address. But I have to say that on the face of it you both seem to really care for each other. The fact that she broke into tears in "coming out" to you should be an indication that "she" was heartbroken. She needs understanding from you and you from her. And I say "she" because for all those out there who think "well, she had a penis so she's a guy" - ever think about why we "guys" have nipples on our chests? Thinking of nursing any babies any time soon? I thought not. We all start out as female embryos and things go from there. It is in no way surprising to me that there are men trapped in female bodies and women trapped in male bodies. Your situation is complicated but isn't life? Best of luck and happiness to you both.

[Gaccha]

"The world is flat" - all the most highly respected, wealthiest, learned, most devout people knew that as a fact. They were so sure of it they imprisoned and tortured anyone who said it wasn't so.

Eh, no they didn't.

"The modern belief that especially medieval Christianity believed in a flat earth has been referred to as The Myth of the Flat Earth.^[1] In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history.^[2] Recent scholarship^[3] has argued that "with extraordinary [sic] few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat" and that the prevailing view was of a spherical earth.^{[1]" -- Wikipedia}

[Merlin]

Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime. The geocentric view had been dominant since the time of Aristotle, and the controversy engendered by Galileo's presentation of heliocentrism as proven fact resulted in the Catholic Church's prohibiting its advocacy as empirically proven fact, because it was not empirically proven at the time and was contrary to the literal meaning of Scripture.^[7] Galileo was eventually forced to recant his heliocentrism and spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Inquisition.

Church controversy

Main article: Galileo affair Cristiano Banti's 1857 painting Galileo facing the Roman Inquisition Western Christian biblical references Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same tradition, Psalm 104:5 says, "the LORD set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place, etc."^[80]

Galileo defended heliocentrism, and claimed it was not contrary to those Scripture passages. He took Augustine's position on Scripture: not to take every passage literally, particularly when the scripture in question is a book of poetry and songs, not a book of instructions or history. The writers of the Scripture wrote from the perspective of the terrestrial world, and from that vantage point the sun does rise and set. In fact, it is the earth's rotation which gives the impression of the sun in motion across the sky.

By 1616 the attacks on Galileo had reached a head, and he went to Rome to try to persuade the Church authorities not to ban his ideas. In the end, Cardinal Bellarmine, acting on directives from the Inquisition, delivered him an order not to "hold or defend" the idea that the Earth moves and the Sun stands still at the centre. The decree did not prevent Galileo from discussing heliocentrism hypothetically. For the next several years Galileo stayed well away from the controversy. He revived his project of writing a book on the subject, encouraged by the election of Cardinal Barberini as Pope Urban VIII in 1623. Barberini was a friend and admirer of Galileo, and had opposed the condemnation of Galileo in 1616. The book, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, was published in 1632, with formal authorization from the Inquisition and papal permission.

Pope Urban VIII personally asked Galileo to give arguments for and against heliocentrism in the book, and to be careful not to advocate heliocentrism. He made another request, that his own views on the matter be included in Galileo's book. Only the latter of those requests was fulfilled by Galileo. Whether unknowingly or deliberate, Simplicius, the defender of the Aristotelian Geocentric view in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, was often caught in his own errors and sometimes came across as a fool. This fact made Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems appear as an advocacy book; an attack on Aristotelian geocentrism and defense of the Copernican theory. To add insult to injury, Galileo put the words of Pope Urban VIII into the mouth of Simplicius. Most historians agree Galileo did not act out of malice and felt blindsided by the reaction to his book.^[81] However, the Pope did not take the suspected public ridicule lightly, nor the blatant bias. Galileo had alienated one of his biggest and most powerful supporters, the Pope, and was called to Rome to defend his writings.

With the loss of many of his defenders in Rome because of Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, Galileo was ordered to stand trial on suspicion of heresy in 1633. The sentence of the Inquisition was in three essential parts:

• Galileo was required to abjure the opinion that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, and that the Earth is not at its centre and moves; the idea that the Sun is stationary was condemned as "formally heretical."^[82]
  
• He was ordered imprisoned; the sentence was later commuted to house arrest.
  
• His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.^[83]
  

[Wikipedia]

[PeaceBlondie]

So, if you hook up with an Isaan farmboy/farmgirl, who thinks the sun rises and sets, and she has a vagina and big breasts, you do not have to worry about what the old Pope from Germany believes.

[tracer5050]

Just have to do what you think is right for yourself and maybe her ?him?

[Gaccha]

Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime. The geocentric view had been dominant since the time of Aristotle, and the controversy engendered by Galileo's presentation of heliocentrism as proven fact resulted in the Catholic Church's prohibiting its advocacy as empirically proven fact,

Good good. Well done. In other words, it was not that 'The World is Flat' was a controversy it was whether the Sun revolved around the Earth or vice-versa that was controversial, since it questioned the (preposterous) view of the Church as humans being special (being in the image of God).

Actually, both views are wrong. The earth revolves around the Sun and the Sun revolves around the Earth-- it is a question of where you are standing. Of course, the orbit the Sun would take around the Earth would look very odd if the Earth is centred. This is an interesting but complex point which I am sure you can investigate further if you are interested.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Gaccha

[TopDogger]

and I'll keep meeting with her for a few years, and we'll take it from there.

Didn't you mean HIM?

[donna]

last year in phuket i met a lovely person. i was introduced to this person as a woman, and thats the way i thought of her from day 1. she was dressed in a white skirt and a colourful top showing a pretty good cleavage. we had a great night out in phuket and she gained the admiration from men all over the place.

two days after meeting her, she went in for sexual reassignment surgery.

i visited her in hospital two days after the first surgery, and she sat up in bed dressed in a great pink feathered dressing gown, and looked so glamourous. her nails were manicured to perfection and we gossiped about things that girls gossip about.

over the next two weeks she endured two more operations to complete the transition from 'man' to woman. i saw such a change in her over those two weeks, that i just cant explain. with her was a girlfriend who had the same surgery a year before by the same doctor - this time she came over to get a killer set of boobs.

the day before my friend left thailand, i went out to dinner with her. prior to leaving her hotel, she told me that she had to 'do something' and that if i didnt want to see i could look away. well, of COURSE i wanted to see! she unveiled herself to me and i can tell you this much - she looked all woman to me. there was not a scar at all that i could see - and i got pretty dam_n close! i couldnt stop looking a the surgical masterpiece that this surgeon had created!

you would never know that she had been born in a mans body.

i never think of her as a 'man'. i never think of her as a 'him'. she is all woman to me and thats all that matters.

to the OP, if you choose to be with this woman, then go for it. you have been with her for .... how long now? what does it matter what she used to be? if you make each other happy then why not be together? you were happy until this revelation so why not continue on how you were?

there is a reason she didnt tell you, and the reason is that she didnt want to lose you. i dont think it was because she wanted to deceive you. she simply didnt want to lose what she had with you.

to all the 'men' here calling her an 'it' and a 'him' i disagree.

if she makes you happy and you make her happy then nothing else matters.

[LaoPo]

last year in phuket i met a lovely person. i was introduced to this person as a woman, and thats the way i thought of her from day 1. she was dressed in a white skirt and a colourful top showing a pretty good cleavage. we had a great night out in phuket and she gained the admiration from men all over the place.

two days after meeting her, she went in for sexual reassignment surgery.

i visited her in hospital two days after the first surgery, and she sat up in bed dressed in a great pink feathered dressing gown, and looked so glamourous. her nails were manicured to perfection and we gossiped about things that girls gossip about.

over the next two weeks she endured two more operations to complete the transition from 'man' to woman. i saw such a change in her over those two weeks, that i just cant explain. with her was a girlfriend who had the same surgery a year before by the same doctor - this time she came over to get a killer set of boobs.

the day before my friend left thailand, i went out to dinner with her. prior to leaving her hotel, she told me that she had to 'do something' and that if i didnt want to see i could look away. well, of COURSE i wanted to see! she unveiled herself to me and i can tell you this much - she looked all woman to me. there was not a scar at all that i could see - and i got pretty dam_n close! i couldnt stop looking a the surgical masterpiece that this surgeon had created!

you would never know that she had been born in a mans body.

i never think of her as a 'man'. i never think of her as a 'him'. she is all woman to me and thats all that matters.

to the OP, if you choose to be with this woman, then go for it. you have been with her for .... how long now? what does it matter what she used to be? if you make each other happy then why not be together? you were happy until this revelation so why not continue on how you were?

there is a reason she didnt tell you, and the reason is that she didnt want to lose you. i dont think it was because she wanted to deceive you. she simply didnt want to lose what she had with you.

to all the 'men' here calling her an 'it' and a 'him' i disagree.

if she makes you happy and you make her happy then nothing else matters.

Wonderful post..thank you Donna !

First I thought you were talking about a Thai...until I read your sentence: "the day before my friend left thailand..", so I assume she was not. Beautiful story and I hope she lives a long and happy life. It's unimaginable for most people to even think about what a transsexual person has to endure......, to be born in a wrong body - so to speak-.

It's good to know there are such perfect surgeons to help them !

LaoPo

[Geekfreaklover]

wouldn't it be a good idea for this young man to cool off the relationship with his transexual for a period of a few months and perhaps explore his own sexual leanings? . I.e: Try doing it with women? That is what a hetrosexual would normally do.

Moreover, it would be healthy for all concerned and would help him arrive towards a balanced decision about which gender (or cross gender) he prefers. After all, if all you have eaten is rice, why would you want to try Pasta?

The ladyboy knows what she prefers in terms of sexual partner. The guy is obviously confused, inexpereinced and somewhat naive of what he is getting himself into .

If he doesn't take a step back and experience the other side of the coin he takes on the risk of travelling so deep into the closet; that he starts to have (mis)adventures in Narnia.