Is "farang" Impolite?

[Jingthing]

I don't think the origin is that important although I am skeptical about the French theory. What matters is how it is used and understood today. And that is mostly WHITE PEOPLE. Yes, it can be used in a derogatory way. It can also be neutral. It can also be positive. It is a symptom of a xenophobic, arguably racist culture that it is so widely used. But the word THAI can also be in a derogatory way, neutral, or positive.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

So what shall we call the French if we cannot say falang sait.

I thought it had almost done a full circle and is now back along the lines of "farancais"..

Frogs? Crapaud?

Falang sait? No you misheard, they are trying to say FRANCAIS (french for french) which with thai accent comes out farancais

I think you mean "comes out farangset" and no that still is not the origin of the word farang

Nobody said that was the origin of falang, its not the same word, they are trying to say FRENCH the way the french taught them to say it. But the extra vowel after f is common with Thai accent (smart = SAmart, stupid = SAtupid etc..) I dont know what you mean comes out farangSET? With a hard T? Ive never heard that, its always been said FA-RuN(g)-SAY (cais = say in french)

ummm because the word French in Thai is Farangset

[Jingthing]

posting error

Edited August 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Thai is a TONAL language. Many words which sound the same to us have completely different meanings in Thai.

[HS Mauberley]

It can be used in a derogatory way. It can also be neutral. It can also be positive.

Yes.

It is a symptom of a xenophobic, arguably racist culture that it is so widely used.

No. How often do you hear the word used on Thai TV or Thai radio? Your thinking that the word is so widely used is a symptom of your being a farang. Nothing more.

[Jingthing]

It was certainly used in the current anti-farang Thai movie HANUMAN, where they translated farang to be GRINGO. It is most definitely widespread in Thai popular culture, but you have a point, it wouldn't be used in a stiff proper newscast.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[ade100]

for christs sake, who gives a faaaarck what you are called. its only words, funny sounds that our throats make that we attach some lame meaning to that evokes or not a feeble emotive response.

its the people who walk the walk not talk the talk that matter in my book.

I often hear people say that words are not very important but my view is that they are extremely important.

You think about all the important things in our lives: Having a good job, getting on well at work, maybe getting promoted, having good friends, falling in love, having a good family life, sharing a few jokes over a beer, learning new things, meeting new people and even contributing to discussion forums. They all involve words.

I suppose some people's live may be more about chopping down trees, fighting, drinking and grunting, but I think for most of us its words that make us feel great, or conversely, can make us feel angry, annoyed or upset.

We live in a world of words and we should treat them with respect.

[Beardog]

After getting in a spirited debate on the same subject I realized Thai's are taught most people that aren't Thai are farang. + too they are a lot more of a simple people & tend to say 1 word instead of a lot. The kids at school where I live will call me farang Because they don't really see to many here. I know some of them & they are cool. No disrespect at all. Since their not encouraged( except when they are younger) to be polite (it seems). Sir is not to commonly used. Not that I cared to be called sir either. you can tell if it is using the word Farang by the tone or mannerism when spoken. Just like someone racist or bigoted in our own countries- you can always tell an antagonist. I probably had more people within a 5 year period talk smack behind my back in America. Now if I get anyone call me a monkey(that isn't my girl) I might get pissed or have a good laugh but hey I am on retirement & not about to get bent on minor issues.

[TopDogger]

We can't change this. It will only cause frustration to try. We don't have real status in this xenophobic society. Any change would have to be a grassroots Thai effort, and why would they care? I can think of 100 other things they should try to address first, and won't, so why this?

I basically said the same thing in my post number #14 jingthing. I think its time to get out of this thread when some members think it's OK to call Kiwi members sheep shagers.

You will be sorely missed...

[Steele404]

Farang is a bit impolite.....

but "rang" itself can be very impolite. Sometimes Thais amongst themselves may refer you as "Ai Rang", and that is very impolite. It's the equivalent of calling you "That cracka" or "white boy".

[12DrinkMore]

I bet this will be forever a heated topic. But there is no way that anything will change in my lifetime.

When I came to Thailand I used to get very upset that I was called Farang. My GF would never say Farang, she said "kon tang chart", otherwise I would get upset again. Now I really can't be bothered. It's what they call us, sometimes an insult, sometimes out of common use. I have never heard it used on the television, but in every country the language used on the television is different from the language on the streets.

In my experience the Farang who have been here up to a couple of years get upset, the rest can't be bothered beating their heads against the brick wall and just take it on board.

Regarding "Kek" used to refer to customer or guest, this is one word I have NEVER heard uttered in front of a customer, even me. It is always "look kah". But with no direct reference to a particular person, its use seem common, for example "Mai me kek", "mai me look kah".

"Be Farang and be proud!"

There is however one particular instance where I do get upset about being referred to as "Farang". And that is when I go into a shop/hotel and the staff have to ring up the boss to find out the price. They ALWAYS say "Farang wants to know how much". Now, by the time they have turned around with the "Farang price", this particular Farang is no longer in the shop, WITHOUT EXCEPTION!

[MiG16]

wasnt there a similar (almost exact same?) topic a few weeks ago?

[Spee]

Learn their names and they'll learn yours and will not call you falang, simple as that...

Maybe, but they will still refer to you as farang when talking to other Thais.

This is true, but it's not exactly a "friend of mine" / "friend of ours" situation. Obviously when used in a negative context, it is derogatory. But most of the time, I think it is just part of typical speech, like some people in the west might say "dude" or "man" or something else. In my partner's village, when the talk about "farang" they are almost always talking about me, so at least I know.

[Neeranam]

my more educated and polite Thai friends never use the word farang. They usually call a non-Thai a foreigner. The high school drop-outs of Issan know of any other owrd except "Farang" to describe a non-Thai & care nought if such may have a negative connotation.

What have you got aginst Isarn people? There ae a lot more drop-outs in Bangkok.

Actually it's usually the Chinese Thai in Bangkok that are the most rascist.

[pnustedt]

I lived there for 14 years. And there are not 50K Thais in Hong Kong - you are way, way off the mark - and most of those who are there are domestic servants. Perhaps you were thinking of Filipinos.

I would like to know what you find similar in the language or the people - I find very little, other than the fact that some prominent Thais are actually prominent in Hong Kong as well (as Chinese, of course). And I've lived here for 15 years now.

I do not refer to Philippinos - 3 years ago when I was in HK there was 160K of them! I understand that their presence has since declined as, generally speaking, their culture is less similar to Chinese. However, Thais have built their own communities within HK - ever spent time in Kowloon City where you will find Thais living alongside Chinese as in many other parts of HK? Although some are domestic servants they also run businesses, work in other jobs and are a part of the HK community, whereas Philippinos generally did work primarily in domestic service. You will find many Thais as employees of large groups such as Park 'n' Shop and Welcome.

I was involved with companies who targeted various ethnic groups within HK and had a pretty good idea of the makeup of the population.

As for similarities - if you can speak Cantonese then Thai should be easier to pick up - their tonal system is similar, as is some of the vocabulary. If you can count in Cantonese you will soon pick up counting in Thai. Culturally, particularly with regards to religion, there is a similar understanding of worship to gain favour - Thais can easily go to a Chinese temple to pray to Buddha to gain favour. In my experience Thais seem to have similar values, diets and culture to HK residents.

[jdinasia]

my more educated and polite Thai friends never use the word farang. They usually call a non-Thai a foreigner. The high school drop-outs of Issan know of any other owrd except "Farang" to describe a non-Thai & care nought if such may have a negative connotation.

What have you got aginst Isarn people? There ae a lot more drop-outs in Bangkok.

Actually it's usually the Chinese Thai in Bangkok that are the most rascist.

I am sorry could you please document these assertions? That there are more dropouts in BKK (assuming you mean people FROM bkk and not people from upcountry looking for work here)

as for Chinese Thai's being racist? could be though I fail to see that (I do see insular and segregated .. just not racist) but why would they be more so than those upcountry?

[12DrinkMore]

What have you got aginst Isarn people? There ae a lot more drop-outs in Bangkok.

Actually it's usually the Chinese Thai in Bangkok that are the most rascist.

I also have a lot of respect and sympathy for the generally hardworking and good natured Isaan people, a lot of them work long hours on building sites and other low paid jobs away from their home, and have to compete with the even lower paid illegally imported Burmese.

And yes, it's the Chinese Thai elite who profit from it all.

[onethailand]

I do not refer to Philippinos - 3 years ago when I was in HK there was 160K of them! I understand that their presence has since declined as, generally speaking, their culture is less similar to Chinese. However, Thais have built their own communities within HK - ever spent time in Kowloon City where you will find Thais living alongside Chinese as in many other parts of HK? Although some are domestic servants they also run businesses, work in other jobs and are a part of the HK community, whereas Philippinos generally did work primarily in domestic service. You will find many Thais as employees of large groups such as Park 'n' Shop and Welcome.

I'm not sure if you understand how difficult it is to get work in Thailand for a non-resident... as domestic help, they can get in easily. As a cashier - highly, highly unusual. The great majority of Thais in HK still work as domestic help, though there are of course a number of successful businesspeople as well.

The number of Thais in HK in 2003 was 13K. I assure you it is not much different now.

I was involved with companies who targeted various ethnic groups within HK and had a pretty good idea of the makeup of the population.

Obviously your numbers differ far from mine - but you are not even going to come close to 50K under any circumstances. Although I obviously don't live in HK now, I still go there frequently - and keep fairly up to date on things there.

As for similarities - if you can speak Cantonese then Thai should be easier to pick up - their tonal system is similar, as is some of the vocabulary. If you can count in Cantonese you will soon pick up counting in Thai. Culturally, particularly with regards to religion, there is a similar understanding of worship to gain favour - Thais can easily go to a Chinese temple to pray to Buddha to gain favour. In my experience Thais seem to have similar values, diets and culture to HK residents.

I don't exactly think the tonal system is similar, though Cantonese has the most tones and Thai the second most of all languages.

Counting - "yat yee sam say ng lok chut bat gow" does not really resemble "neung song sam see ha hok jaet baet kaew" - even those that may look similar have completely different tones. There are small similarities in vocabulary because some Thai terms originally were Chinese - but similarly, there are some similarities in vocabulary because some terms in both languages were foreign (think chocolate and strawberry). But you better watch out because it is very difficult to keep both languages in use at the same time - it takes me a day to switch to either language when I visit and even then I can't keep the tones straight, that takes a few more days.

And be especially careful not to say "paeng" - in Cantonese, it means cheap - and in Thai, expensive.

Religion, I agree.

Values, I especially disagree. One look at the work ethic in Hong Kong, compare to the work ethic here, is more than enough to make this determination.

Culture? Definitely can't agree. Thailand's culture is as diverse as Hong Kong's is narrow.

But enough of this - it's off topic. Just wanted to point out that "gweilo" is not quite the same as "farang".

Edited August 26, 2008 by onethailand

[elkangorito]

This is another "sticks & stones" thread.

If a known Thai person (who can speak English) starts talking Thai (with other Thais) within earshot & you hear the word "farang", do you immediately think that they are talking about you? If so, do you think they are speaking badly of you, considering that these people can speak English? Well, I guess you could think so but you could also be very wrong, unless you are fluent in Thai.

And if you really are not fluent in a language & you do "hear" certain words, the most important thing is your choice of reaction to those "heard" words.

Remember what our grandparents taught us but we continually ignore, "Sticks & stones can break our bones but names can never hurt us".

[thithi]

Farang is from the word France, French.

As We read "Government Siam" as "Gad-fun-mun-sa-yam" in past...

Thai got lazy tongue. then it became Farang. cos we need to speak it easily.

since king rama the 5th French colonized in Cambodia as well as British in Burma then they came to Thailand. they were STRANGERS which are diffy in thai ppl's eyes. then we called French as Farang.

So thai ppl looked at them at the "weird" way cos they had never seen bfor.

And that time .. we "did" hate French cos they tried to colonize here and took possession in the land in the East of thailand which now is Chantaburi province. as they forced us to give them some parts of Cambodia which used to be in thailand border.

but After that we call all Caucasian as Farang, but doesnt mean bad. and it became a usual word.

so... Farang is not a bad word.

Actually Portugese was the first foreigner here .... but we didnt call them Farang till French came

[Nignoy]

what are we then?

chao tang chat

ชาวต่างประเทศ to be more accurate

I call myself a pakeha.

Silly me I thought it was spellt PAKI!!

pakeha is a maori word. being a white skinned New Zealander, I am a pakeha. Oops was meant as a play on words or a joke subtle enough even to be understood by Kiwi,s you obviously still appear with scratches on your face on monday mornings

ชาวต่างประเทศ is the correct thai word for foreigner (i know its confusing for some using thai script to spell a thai word )

[teacup]

This is another "sticks & stones" thread.

If a known Thai person (who can speak English) starts talking Thai (with other Thais) within earshot & you hear the word "farang", do you immediately think that they are talking about you? If so, do you think they are speaking badly of you, considering that these people can speak English? Well, I guess you could think so but you could also be very wrong, unless you are fluent in Thai.

And if you really are not fluent in a language & you do "hear" certain words, the most important thing is your choice of reaction to those "heard" words.

Remember what our grandparents taught us but we continually ignore, "Sticks & stones can break our bones but names can never hurt us".

Yes…..I and my friend could be talking about…. a“chewing gum”…. duh

[phaethon]

pointing to the guava on a fruit stall and saying "farang gin farang" usually raises a chuckle.

K.

[pnustedt]

I'm not sure if you understand how difficult it is to get work in Thailand for a non-resident... as domestic help, they can get in easily. As a cashier - highly, highly unusual. The great majority of Thais in HK still work as domestic help, though there are of course a number of successful businesspeople as well.

The number of Thais in HK in 2003 was 13K. I assure you it is not much different now.

I know very well the employment regulations in HK, especially where they apply to Thais. My wife worked with an agency who placed Thai residents (I did not refer to non-residents) in such employment, I assure you that Thais in such jobs is quite normal. Actually my wife's sister (Thai national) is branch manager of Park n Shop Tseung Kwung O store.

In 2005 28,350 Thais were registered in HK, but they tended to live there in extended families and their offspring (born in HK) were not registered as Thais, so this figure is misleading. http://www.info.gov.hk/info/hkbrief/eng/ahk.htm

You obviously lived in a different HK (and I suspect Thailand) to me and have different perspectives.

[mr_hippo]

Yes, it can be used in a derogatory way. It can also be neutral. It can also be positive.

Wow! You have covered all possibilities.

[kiakaha]

Farang is from the word France, French.

As We read "Government Siam" as "Gad-fun-mun-sa-yam" in past...

Thai got lazy tongue. then it became Farang. cos we need to speak it easily.

since king rama the 5th French colonized in Cambodia as well as British in Burma then they came to Thailand. they were STRANGERS which are diffy in thai ppl's eyes. then we called French as Farang.

So thai ppl looked at them at the "weird" way cos they had never seen bfor.

And that time .. we "did" hate French cos they tried to colonize here and took possession in the land in the East of thailand which now is Chantaburi province. as they forced us to give them some parts of Cambodia which used to be in thailand border.

but After that we call all Caucasian as Farang, but doesnt mean bad. and it became a usual word.

so... Farang is not a bad word.

Actually Portugese was the first foreigner here .... but we didnt call them Farang till French came

and other such entomological beliefs may be read here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang#Origin...d_related_words

[Wrong Turn]

Is it polite to call myself "black", even though I'm not? Perhaps you should have asked your "4th year, university Sociolgy Students" for the polite term.

black and white are not negative, IMO. I use these terms.

As for the term "farang," I think it depends on how it's used. This word won't be going anywhere. It's here to stay.

I use "farang" rarely, and usually say "expat."

[wolfmanjack]

Yeah all you farangs talk b*lls**t, most of us will always be referred to as Farang outside of our Thai friends.

Hey farang you want taxi?

I prefer this to them shouting " Hey , YOU, YOU " This always kind of annoyed me.

I do remember one time my father and i were walking and some thai teenager was pointing and saying FALANG! FALANG! and I pointed back and said KHON THAI! KHON THAI! All the other thai people around started laughing along with the 3 of us.

I don't think it is derogative for most people in every day use. My neighbor calls me Lung Falang and has no problem letting his kids go every where with with me and my family.

[Stephen Cleary]

Farang is from the word France, French.

As We read "Government Siam" as "Gad-fun-mun-sa-yam" in past...

Thai got lazy tongue. then it became Farang. cos we need to speak it easily.

since king rama the 5th French colonized in Cambodia as well as British in Burma then they came to Thailand. they were STRANGERS which are diffy in thai ppl's eyes. then we called French as Farang.

So thai ppl looked at them at the "weird" way cos they had never seen bfor.

And that time .. we "did" hate French cos they tried to colonize here and took possession in the land in the East of thailand which now is Chantaburi province. as they forced us to give them some parts of Cambodia which used to be in thailand border.

but After that we call all Caucasian as Farang, but doesnt mean bad. and it became a usual word.

so... Farang is not a bad word.

Actually Portugese was the first foreigner here .... but we didnt call them Farang till French came

That the word 'Farang' originates from the French pronunciation of their country France as in Francais, is and was the common belief.

The word Farang however, more likely intially originated from Arabic, Farangi (Barang)and brought over to this region of the world with the arrival of the Persians in the 16th century. The super-powerful Persian Bunnag family which first settled in Thailand during this era is an example Bunnag Family

There is an abundance of similar sounding words (to barang/farang) meaning 'white man' in many other langauges. On the other hand, Farang and the French (Francais) and Arabic (Farangi) could also have been a mix of two.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Stephen Cleary

[kiakaha]

I wonder how many(so called linguistic experts) in this forum can actually read and write the word in thai script ??, can deduce from a conversation whether the word is used to mean asparagus, guava, potato, chewing gum, caucasian, putting some object/subject into a foreign context etc...

You may actually be being called a potato head or being asked for a stick of chewing gum