State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[Tony Clifton]

There was an interview with Samak on CNN about an hour ago.

The good cook was his usual self raising his voice at young reporter, telling him not to ever use words like strings and puppet masters 'cos he feels insulted.

What an abominable character.

That will go well along with his Al-Jazeera interview.

As I said before, Premiership under TRT-PPP is not a question of intelligence, it's a matter of lacking judgment, morals and integrity.

[Plus]

Call them crooks if you want. The goverments before them were the same. The only difference is that TRT paid attention to their needs. The changes up here are visable. Economic growth. Better roads, utilities and etc. plus a lot more. You could almost hear the sucking sound as things started getting pulled back into Bangkok after the coup.

Yep, the junta government repaid 80bil in fuel fund debts and 100 bil in rice subsidies in one year. Now it's back on - 150 bil spend on various giveaways so far this year, an equivalent of four years of free education.

[onethailand]

Still cryptic.

Temasek is the investment arm of the Government of Singapore. Not sure what that has to do with its managing director or the former head of Siam Cement.

SCB's major shareholder, if I am not mistaken, is the Crown Property Bureau.

And Siam Commercial Bank who put together a lot of the financing and securitisation?

What's the point you're trying to make? I'm confused.

The deal was brokered by Temasak by a former head of Siam Cement, Thai gentleman, owned by CPB, and the securitisation was put together by SCB, owned by CPB. A very strange situation one would think.

Ok, I see what you're trying to do - but your post was so cryptic I could not make heads nor tails of it.

Temasek is Singapore's investment arm. Its CEO is Madam Ho, wife of the Singaporean Prime Minister.

Chumpol Na Lamlieng is CEO of SingTel, and former CEO of Siam Cement. Temasek owns 65% of SingTel.

The way I read it, you were saying Temasek's managing director was a former CEO of Siam Cement.

Siam Cement is 30% owned by the Crown Property Bureau, the investment arm of the King.

Siam Commercial Bank is 2x% owned by the Crown Property Bureau. SCB brokered the deal.

Now - what conclusion are you trying to draw? CPB wanted to buy a stake in Shin as well. Their job is to make money, just like any other investment firm. They do not run either Siam Cement nor SCB, they simply have investments in those companies.

[blaze]

I found this from Asia Times, one of Manager Groups Websites.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ID27Ae01.html

And if anyone can prove it is a spoof, I please ask the mods to remove it.

Recollections, revelations of a protest leader

By Shawn W Crispin

An interview given by Sondhi.

I don't want to copy it all because there are many references to a very respected man.

Asia Times (founded by Sondhi) went bankrupt in 1997 but continued with some former paper's staff as an online edition and it's hardly an independent news agency/publisher and it's doubtful if Mr. Shawn W Crispin can be considered completely independent as well...

So: not only the article is more than a year old it's also a PRO Sondhi colored article.

LaoPo

It is not a pro Sondhi article.

It IS an interview with Sondhi and he seems to speak his mind.

and fairly eloquently in english. If you pre-disposed to

not want to hear his own words in print, then you likely will get nothing out if it.

If you are disposed to actual giving a fair listen, like I am then it was enlightening.

I will ghaldly read most everything, and the form my OWN opinion,

based on what I read and pat corroborated evidenses.

Too many here seem to content to repeatedly parrot what they have been told.

With little questioning of it's source's motivations. Or blanket condemnations

based on philisophical absolutes, rather than considering the facts on the ground.

This last can not be considered 'dialog', but hectoring, and serves little purpose.

What did you find in the article that would piss off some people (other than those hoping that they would find corroberation for the notion of Sondhi as a graft fighter).

Well I get a definite that sense several here would preffer to find him

talking like a Hilter Youth speach writer and corroborate him as a nut case.

I got no sense of that at all, or anything vaguely similar.

No not a nut case at all- actually in that interview, amazingly candid. It was largely on the basis of that article that I posted about the way that the feudal elites used (and may continue to use) Sondhi- who's real constituency, in this article, is the Chinese middle class- while at the same time, Sondhi in turn uses the frustration that most Thais have about endemic corruption. I got the impression- and maybe I'm wrong- that for Sondhi and his immediate consituency (the Chinese middle class) the grievance was not that Thaksin 'bought' an election (he doesn't even mention that) but rather that the middle class Taxes are what would have to pay for the cost of T's electoral promises. That's why I compared this 'uprising' or whatever- with what's happening in Bolivia- and certainly a far cry from any thing like a left wing or socialist movement.

[Seizhin]

I could never understand how people could worship either Thaksin or Sondhik Limthongkul or even our religious Chamleong Srimeang.

Anyways, this had to end fast, to investors in Thailand, it's either PAD captured to their root or Samak's clan gone from the politics once and for all.

Getting annoyed with the stupid propaganda around, espcially when you're in Southern part where people are worshiping their PAD leaders without much common sense.

Maybe it'll be the same if I'm in Chiang Mai where people would worship the PPP.

That's another kind of corruption...only thinking what foreign investors think.

Clean the politics, you have for 5 month less investment and for 5 years higher investments. As well you can reduce all taxes by 5 % if you get rid of corruption.

I agree with your opinion, but only if Thailand is capable of having a 'clean' politic.

As long as the people, no, the majority of the people are uneducated, I wont give hope into having a clean Thailand politic.

Either submit, or oppose, that's the choice in Thailand.

It doesnt lie in the PPP or the PAD, it lies in whether the people are educated or not.

The reason why PAD fails to drive the whole PPP is because majority still votes for PPP, and the reason why PPP still cant get rid of PAD is because the people are uneducated.

As long as you're blinded by both ASTV or even NBT, you wont see the light.

I've watched ASTV and I can tell you that I loathed most that had been said in it as they're general untrue propaganda statements, the same can be said for NBT.

Manager, and other newspapers themsleves are biased, and as long as the people fails to realize of what is true, or what is fake, there shall never be peace in Thailand, as there's always people who can create propaganda to the land.

In America every man, woman, minority, land owner or not has the right to vote and the majority will rule. With this kind of democracy we have a very stable government that people will invest in and have become the worlds #1 economy.

Majority would choose the government and the minority respects it, that is what Democracy is, but that is only best when the majority of the citizens are educated, and does not bow to a few dollars.

However, if the majority of the people are uneducated, taking our Land of Smile for instance, it's best to adopt our Chinese brother's knowledge, and just adopt the communism.

It's a problem in Democracy when the people who supports the majority are willing to turn into a minority for a few bucks per day.

The only way it REALLY works well is if a majority puts in a government

that RESPECTS the minority also. When Thaksins said, and backed up,

Any province that doesn't vote for TRT will not get ANY development money,

he meant it, and acted in it.

PPP is TRT under a different name, even some of the

backroom ruling clique are banned TRT leaders,

with the same mind set:

We won, and you weren't with us TOUGH, no tit for you.

A recipee for disaster for sure.

You raised a good point, of which I agree, but I feel as if you're asking too much from the citizens of Thailand. Thaksin's words himself are foolish, rather, selfish and I dont think it's right, but that has nothing to do with the current situation, or little it has with the present.

If you choose to submit, there's peace, either side, PPP or PAD.

If you choose to oppose, it'll continue.

By submitting, you'll respect the other side's opinion but the other side will not be satisfied by just that, they'll step on you, and bury you under the ground. Thus is what is happening in Thailand.

[Tony Clifton]

If I ever get clubbed over the head by a DAAD protester I'll be asking him what his ThaiVisa nick is. There's little evidence of them anywhere else....

[emelie]

I am a firm supporter of PAD and the protest....It has always been a peaceful protest, in hopes of stopping further corruption and theft of the country to benefit a few at the top.

My wife bears the scars of the May 92 protest, when another corrupt government did the same thing to the people that were peacefully assembled. Many were killed and wounded.

The most peaceful outcome would be for word from on High to come down for Samak to find life elsewhere. I thought it would after his visit to Hua Hin last week.

RIGHT ON!!! I can't believe how many of the farangs posting on here have so little respect for the brave protesters who are standing up for a fair share of the pie, standing up to these elite few who steal from the common man. Does anybody remember the cival rights movement in America and MLK Jr. ???

You better hope it ends up better for the PAD than it did for MLK Jr..

Well funny you should mention that.

As a human and a parent and a walking talking individual it ended badly, or too soon fo MLKjr.

but for HIS GOALS it ended, no it DID NOT END, he became and icon

and his words took on a MUCH greater power than when he spoke them.

His legacy is running for president now, with a good chance of winning it.

His legacy is the great number of people who are free to do things their grandparents only hoped for.

Martin Luther King's protests in the streets that many in the opposition called illegal,

40 years on have taken on a legitimate a life of their own.

He has a national holiday and he is considered an icon of freedom, and not just for african-americans either.

If he is looking down from above no doubt he smiles a lot.

He reached his goals, he just didn't LIVE to see it.

joe in surin, please read the other serious posts again and 'i have a dream': won't you please never ever compare pad with mlk! i hope it ends up better for you.

[animatic]

In America every man, woman, minority, land owner or not has the right to vote and the majority will rule. With this kind of democracy we have a very stable government that people will invest in and have become the worlds #1 economy.

Majority would choose the government and the minority respects it, that is what Democracy is, but that is only best when the majority of the citizens are educated, and does not bow to a few dollars.

However, if the majority of the people are uneducated, taking our Land of Smile for instance, it's best to adopt our Chinese brother's knowledge, and just adopt the communism.

It's a problem in Democracy when the people who supports the majority are willing to turn into a minority for a few bucks per day.

\

Any province that doesn't vote for TRT will not get ANY development money,

he meant it, and acted in it.

I can't say what Thaksin meant when he said that- but I do know what one of the most important PMs of Canada, Trudeau, meant when he said the same thing to the western provinces of Canada- in a representative democracy, representatives who are in the winning party stand a much better opportunity to get things done for their constituencies than representatives outside of the party. THat's unfortunate- I don't like that situation- but it's hard to get rid of.

My friend, who speaks good english, is connected enough with local politics

to know how the taps get turnd on and off. He confirmed after the previous election

a TRT man showed up and 'explained' in no uncertain terms, that no aid is showing up.

The annual budget request with such things as road repairs and general maintanence

was torn up in the committees face and a number about 40% of it was written on a paper.

The boss says you get this much, you didn't bring in the provence for TRT.

Respect for the minorities is part of proper democratic principles.

Troudeau was also fighting a french speaking Quebecios ceccesion

attempt at the time he said that. Not exactly the time to suck up to

the bigger states with fewer people.

[sjaak327]

If I ever get clubbed over the head by a DAAD protester I'll be asking him what his ThaiVisa nick is. There's little evidence of them anywhere else....

I guess judging from the events of yesterday, that their absence is a great sign. Now if only those PAD people could pack up and leave, maybe people can get on with their daily jobs, children can go to school, and then we let the politicians who have been voted into parliament sort out the mess, at the end of the day, it's their mess.

New elections, no new elections, up to them, all the voters will get a chance to deal with them sooner or later anyway. ''

[rainman]

Someone answer me this:

Is the EC recommending the disbanding of the PPP because:

1. They commited vote buying fraud.

-or-

2. They bought more votes than the Democrats.

We all know that the EC has issued red cards to Democrats as well for vote buying, just not as many as they issued to the PPP.

So if the EC is recommending the disbanding of the PPP because they commited vote buying fraud, shouldn't the Democratic party be disbanded as well?

If they are recommending the disbanding of the PPP because they bought more votes than the Democrats, this seems to suggest that vote buying is acceptable in Thai elections as long as you don't buy over "X" amount of votes.

[Thai at Heart]

Still cryptic.

Temasek is the investment arm of the Government of Singapore. Not sure what that has to do with its managing director or the former head of Siam Cement.

SCB's major shareholder, if I am not mistaken, is the Crown Property Bureau.

And Siam Commercial Bank who put together a lot of the financing and securitisation?

What's the point you're trying to make? I'm confused.

The deal was brokered by Temasak by a former head of Siam Cement, Thai gentleman, owned by CPB, and the securitisation was put together by SCB, owned by CPB. A very strange situation one would think.

Ok, I see what you're trying to do - but your post was so cryptic I could not make heads nor tails of it.

Temasek is Singapore's investment arm. Its CEO is Madam Ho, wife of the Singaporean Prime Minister.

Chumpol Na Lamlieng is CEO of SingTel, and former CEO of Siam Cement. Temasek owns 65% of SingTel.

The way I read it, you were saying Temasek's managing director was a former CEO of Siam Cement.

Siam Cement is 30% owned by the Crown Property Bureau, the investment arm of the King.

Siam Commercial Bank is 2x% owned by the Crown Property Bureau. SCB brokered the deal.

Now - what conclusion are you trying to draw? CPB wanted to buy a stake in Shin as well. Their job is to make money, just like any other investment firm. They do not run either Siam Cement nor SCB, they simply have investments in those companies.

Well considering the relatively small stink that the whole thing caused, rather surprising business partners. Anyway, it is all history now.

[ubonjoe]

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Yeah I bet you do, another nice one that was a little bit PAD related don't you think. Of course to go further into that would be OT.

Beleive in me I am no supporter for PAD nor the PPP. If I had my way, I would ban the whole lot from politics/pressure group as they all hold criminal/ corruption records. Problem is I have no idea who could replace them!

Abhisit man, Abhisit.

Did he visit Isaan once during the last election?

You will recall (maybe not) when the Democrats tried to campaign in the northeast, they were physically attacked. I guess they didn't pay as much as the other guys.

They are hated in the northeast because of the perceived belief here of their involvment in the coup.

If the democrat party were to be put in place as the next goverment you might see things get even worse.

So any democrat is unacceptable.

unless the put 200 Baht more than Thaksin on the table. Than they would be the darlings. Northeast would meet to celebrate their loved Abhisit.

Some parties spent a lot of money up here. But most people took it and voted for their party of choice.

Thats why PPP won not the money.

What the local boss told they should vote, as he also got money. They told lies all the day.....For the 30 Baht insurance Thaksin will pay the difference from his own money, paying back the credits after 1997...Thaksin paid it from his privat money to help Thailand. They spread rumor about how the not allowed to post love Thaksin. AND they got some money so they can see how Thaksin loves them.

And that is just a simple explanation on what happened.

That also explains why some people when tired and bored get the idea of they are simply not educated enough in Isaan to vote. That is not meant against the people it is just out of frustration in a weak moment.

No question that every government the last 50 years failed to bring some education to that areas, but on the other hands that silly areas get smaller (but get more children so more population).

If I was to take a poll here in the village where I live right now PPP would come out on top. No money no bosses no propaganda would be needed for PPP to win today.

[Plus]

Hey guys that is the problem bnoth sides are uuterly hated by swathes of the country...

I'm not sure there are that many detractors for both camps. Even if it is so, very few of them express their opinions, I suppose because they don't have any or don't feel strong enough about them.

This so-called "silent majority" is one of the biggest flops on Thai political scene, right next to "in the meantime, let's have a competent leader". Interestingly enough, one of the first proponents of the "silent majority" was no one else than Surayud Chulanont who also tried being competent later on, and so, with his personal experience, has proven that both ideas are dead wrong.

[emelie]

If these farmers stop working, we all will have nothing to eat. Working in offices or protesting against the law doesn't create foods.

well said, won't you please tell the board, what food you create?

[kurtgruen]

I just read the following from the Nation. Not sure if anybody posted it or not, as we just got back from dinner...

Acacdemics and educators call for House dissolution

More than 300 academics and educators from various institutes including King Mongkut's University of Technology, Silpakorn University and Suranaree University jointly called on Tuesday for the House dissolution.

"Through this means, power will be returned to people," their joint statement said.

[ubonjoe]

Someone answer me this:

Is the EC recommending the disbanding of the PPP because:

1. They commited vote buying fraud.

-or-

2. They bought more votes than the Democrats.

We all know that the EC has issued red cards to Democrats as well for vote buying, just not as many as they issued to the PPP.

So if the EC is recommending the disbanding of the PPP because they commited vote buying fraud, shouldn't the Democratic party be disbanded as well?

If they are recommending the disbanding of the PPP because they bought more votes than the Democrats, this seems to suggest that vote buying is acceptable in Thai elections as long as you don't buy over "X" amount of votes.

Its down to one charge for about all the parties at the moment. The EC is still investigating the others.

[onethailand]

Well considering the relatively small stink that the whole thing caused, rather surprising business partners. Anyway, it is all history now.

LOL.

The initial "stink" was that Thaksin was selling a "national asset" - and telecommunications is on the protected list. But that was nothing compared to the real stink - that Thaksin and his family evaded paying taxes on the transaction.

The fact that any company of which the CPB had a stake was involved is essentially irrelevant. CPB has a very capable and well-respected head in the form of Chirayu Issarangkul Na Ayuttaya. CPB has investments in quite a few companies in Thailand - the now-failed Business Day newspaper was one - Christiani & Nielsen (Thailand), the country's first construction firm, and the first local company to take over its foreign parent, was another. And there are hundreds I don't know about. But I have never heard of the CPB interfering in the operations of any of the companies it has invested in.

[animatic]

I found this from Asia Times, one of Manager Groups Websites.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ID27Ae01.html

And if anyone can prove it is a spoof, I please ask the mods to remove it.

Recollections, revelations of a protest leader

By Shawn W Crispin

An interview given by Sondhi.

I don't want to copy it all because there are many references to a very respected man.

Asia Times (founded by Sondhi) went bankrupt in 1997 but continued with some former paper's staff as an online edition and it's hardly an independent news agency/publisher and it's doubtful if Mr. Shawn W Crispin can be considered completely independent as well...

So: not only the article is more than a year old it's also a PRO Sondhi colored article.

LaoPo

It is not a pro Sondhi article.

It IS an interview with Sondhi and he seems to speak his mind.

and fairly eloquently in english. If you pre-disposed to

not want to hear his own words in print, then you likely will get nothing out if it.

If you are disposed to actual giving a fair listen, like I am then it was enlightening.

I will ghaldly read most everything, and the form my OWN opinion,

based on what I read and pat corroborated evidenses.

Too many here seem to content to repeatedly parrot what they have been told.

With little questioning of it's source's motivations. Or blanket condemnations

based on philisophical absolutes, rather than considering the facts on the ground.

This last can not be considered 'dialog', but hectoring, and serves little purpose.

What did you find in the article that would piss off some people (other than those hoping that they would find corroberation for the notion of Sondhi as a graft fighter).

Well I get a definite that sense several here would preffer to find him

talking like a Hilter Youth speach writer and corroborate him as a nut case.

I got no sense of that at all, or anything vaguely similar.

No not a nut case at all- actually in that interview, amazingly candid. It was largely on the basis of that article that I posted about the way that the feudal elites used (and may continue to use) Sondhi- who's real constituency, in this article, is the Chinese middle class- while at the same time, Sondhi in turn uses the frustration that most Thais have about endemic corruption. I got the impression- and maybe I'm wrong- that for Sondhi and his immediate consituency (the Chinese middle class) the grievance was not that Thaksin 'bought' an election (he doesn't even mention that) but rather that the middle class Taxes are what would have to pay for the cost of T's electoral promises. That's why I compared this 'uprising' or whatever- with what's happening in Bolivia- and certainly a far cry from any thing like a left wing or socialist movement.

Oh yeah I am SURE that was a large part of it.

While Dr. T. is milking the tit for all he can in a big way,

he expects a JUST emerging middle class to foot the bill for the poor,

and nothing much coming from him or his class to join their suffering.

This is not to say anything about the abject poor's suffering.

But Dr. T/s election base was the very poor, and it clearly rankled BIG time

that the middle class were expected to pay for his election promises

while he clearly gorged at the trough and told all and sundry to shut up he's the boss now.

" You can't criticise me I AM the government."

Mean while he hides his assets after bribing his way out of the 2001 assets charges

and then after a few more years, SELLS up what he DOESN'T OWN to SINGAPORE.

Including Thailands only satilite communication, and THEN says he need not pay taxes on

astronomical sums.

But the middle class must pay for his election promises.

Yeah it stuck in everybodies craws. Goes a LONG way to explaining the last coup.

Why can any one imagine they want him in ANY form of control here?

[LaoPo]

Siam Cement is 30% owned by the Crown Property Bureau, the investment arm of the King.

Siam Commercial Bank is 2x% owned by the Crown Property Bureau. SCB brokered the deal.

Now - what conclusion are you trying to draw? CPB wanted to buy a stake in Shin as well. Their job is to make money, just like any other investment firm. They do not run either Siam Cement nor SCB, they simply have investments in those companies.

"They do not run......"

It depends; The Crown Property Bureau has large stakes, percentage wise, in those -very large- companies and probably has -preference- voting rights as well and can thus influence the day-to-day running, and therefore the results, as well.

To assume the CPB is just a silent investor is most likely naive.

LaoPo

[paulfromphuket]

If I ever get clubbed over the head by a DAAD protester I'll be asking him what his ThaiVisa nick is. There's little evidence of them anywhere else....

I guess judging from the events of yesterday, that their absence is a great sign. Now if only those PAD people could pack up and leave, maybe people can get on with their daily jobs, children can go to school, and then we let the politicians who have been voted into parliament sort out the mess, at the end of the day, it's their mess.

New elections, no new elections, up to them, all the voters will get a chance to deal with them sooner or later anyway. ''

it strikes me having read much of this for the last few days that niether ppp or pad will ever be able to operate a stable government.perhaps some one should respectfully ask the king if he would mind taking over as a constitutional monarch for a bit.me thinks the people would not mind as at least he has a record in careing for his subjects.

[Plus]

Someone answer me this:

Is the EC recommending the disbanding of the PPP because:

Because their high ranking executive was caught bribing more than a dozen officials from villages all across the northern region - that is he was acting on behalf of the party, not for his personal benefit, like the rest of red carded MPs.

It's still a long way to go before the dissolution. In TRT case they went down not only for the fraud itself, but for their inaction over it. Chaturon, TRT leader at that time, gave a self-daming testimony - everybody in the party leadership knew what was going on but no one said a thing.

Yongyuth was isolated by PPP, but the law is also more strict this time around.

I have no idea what an alternative punishment would be, the law is not clear on party list candidates, they are supposed to be replaced by the next one on the list.

Two options that are at the opposite ends. Which one will the court choose? Will they find another form of punishment?

[onethailand]

Siam Cement is 30% owned by the Crown Property Bureau, the investment arm of the King.

Siam Commercial Bank is 2x% owned by the Crown Property Bureau. SCB brokered the deal.

Now - what conclusion are you trying to draw? CPB wanted to buy a stake in Shin as well. Their job is to make money, just like any other investment firm. They do not run either Siam Cement nor SCB, they simply have investments in those companies.

"They do not run......"

It depends; The Crown Property Bureau has large stakes, percentage wise, in those -very large- companies and probably has -preference- voting rights as well and can thus influence the day-to-day running, and therefore the results, as well.

To assume the CPB is just a silent investor is most likely naive.

LaoPo

Naturally, the CPB would be expected to have a seat on the board as the largest shareholder. So no, it is not silent. But they do not run the companies, nor are they likely to interfere in the operations. Do note that both of the companies mentioned in this case are publicly-listed so you can easily see for yourself who owns what, and make whatever conclusions you like from that.

Besides that - as far as SCB would've been concerned, the transaction was perfectly legal.

[catmac]

JoeInSurin

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Is that guy still throwing questions at me?

I apologize. I forgot you chose to ignore legitimate questions that you have no answer for. Good way to get your point across by ignoring people.

Don't worry, Joe. I'm still waiting for for the eel's opinion on General P's sudden appearance in the ranks of the PAD leadership! Good at posting silly pictures, not good at answering salient points!

[animatic]

Someone answer me this:

Is the EC recommending the disbanding of the PPP because:

1. They commited vote buying fraud.

-or-

2. They bought more votes than the Democrats.

We all know that the EC has issued red cards to Democrats as well for vote buying, just not as many as they issued to the PPP.

So if the EC is recommending the disbanding of the PPP because they commited vote buying fraud, shouldn't the Democratic party be disbanded as well?

If they are recommending the disbanding of the PPP because they bought more votes than the Democrats, this seems to suggest that vote buying is acceptable in Thai elections as long as you don't buy over "X" amount of votes.

Its down to one charge for about all the parties at the moment. The EC is still investigating the others.

Several coalition partners have members charged, with PPP it is a high leadership person CONVICTED.

this means disbanding in no uncertain terms. Was this guy not speaker of the house till convicted or just before?

A major PPP player, hence the Samak clique'sd panic about re-jiggering the law and /or setting up a NEW PARTY.

The new party IS in place, because they know what's coming.

General hoy paloy party workers are not disbandment issues UNLESS

there is shown to be a pattern and it extends to leadership.

I believe the EC will be considering a couple of PPP partners next in line after the big fish was dealt with.

Not sure who in the Dems was charged. This one NEVER was mentioned at election time

UNTIL a BIG fish in PPP was caught, then suddenly a charge came vs the Dems...

Possibilly a 'don't you dare dissolve us' bargining chip attempt.

So it's veracity may be suspect. That's for the EC to decide.

[emelie]

Hang on. I see a lot of the posts here are based on the belief that Samak actually tells the truth when he speaks. I do not believe one word he says. When he took over he made himself the minister for defense to cover this exact situation, to control free assembly and free speech for his own ends...... no doubt suggested by Mr T.

i also don't believe much what samak says. but he will not easily change the word of the most revered institution in thailand. and those words, as reported by samak himself, were: ..."with extreme caution, ...soft & gentle"...anyone who understands diplomatic language, there is no stronger warning than "with extreme caution". and since we all know long time that samak is everything but "soft & gentle" diplomacy would express with those words: "but clearly without you, you are not soft & gentle, step aside!". in an absolute monarchy, a king could and would have been more direct, but as one has to resort to 'diplomacy' how could one have been more outspoken?

[sjaak327]

Emelie, you sure remind me of another poster that had the same highlighting habits. You are not posting with different handles now are you ?

[LaoPo]

Siam Cement is 30% owned by the Crown Property Bureau, the investment arm of the King.

Siam Commercial Bank is 2x% owned by the Crown Property Bureau. SCB brokered the deal.

Now - what conclusion are you trying to draw? CPB wanted to buy a stake in Shin as well. Their job is to make money, just like any other investment firm. They do not run either Siam Cement nor SCB, they simply have investments in those companies.

"They do not run......"

It depends; The Crown Property Bureau has large stakes, percentage wise, in those -very large- companies and probably has -preference- voting rights as well and can thus influence the day-to-day running, and therefore the results, as well.

To assume the CPB is just a silent investor is most likely naive.

LaoPo

Naturally, the CPB would be expected to have a seat on the board as the largest shareholder. So no, it is not silent. But they do not run the companies, nor are they likely to interfere in the operations. Do note that both of the companies mentioned in this case are publicly-listed so you can easily see for yourself who owns what, and make whatever conclusions you like from that.

Besides that - as far as SCB would've been concerned, the transaction was perfectly legal.

Of course they don't run the company; they have them run by people they CO-approve and CO-parachuted. But I'm quite sure that if a major shareholder like the CPB wouldn't approve with a certain appointed management-member it probably would not become factual. What do you think ?

Publicly listed doesn't mean anything; it depends how small or large the % is of the non-voting-rights listed shares.

BTW: I am not judging here any transaction since I wasn't referring to that.

LaoPo

[paulfromphuket]

Hang on. I see a lot of the posts here are based on the belief that Samak actually tells the truth when he speaks. I do not believe one word he says. When he took over he made himself the minister for defense to cover this exact situation, to control free assembly and free speech for his own ends...... no doubt suggested by Mr T.

i also don't believe much what samak says. but he will not easily change the word of the most revered institution in thailand. and those words, as reported by samak himself, were: ..."with extreme caution, ...soft & gentle"...anyone who understands diplomatic language, there is no stronger warning than "with extreme caution". and since we all know long time that samak is everything but "soft & gentle" diplomacy would express with those words: "but clearly without you, you are not soft & gentle, step aside!". in an absolute monarchy, a king could and would have been more direct, but as one has to resort to 'diplomacy' how could one have been more outspoken?

there is no diplomacy right now, somes time children just need there heads banging together and i did say for a bit.

[LaoPo]

Emelie, you sure remind me of another poster that had the same highlighting habits. You are not posting with different handles now are you ?

Spot on....I just recall that I haven't seen that particular chap since a day or 2....

LaoPo

[onethailand]

Naturally, the CPB would be expected to have a seat on the board as the largest shareholder. So no, it is not silent. But they do not run the companies, nor are they likely to interfere in the operations. Do note that both of the companies mentioned in this case are publicly-listed so you can easily see for yourself who owns what, and make whatever conclusions you like from that.

Besides that - as far as SCB would've been concerned, the transaction was perfectly legal.

Of course they don't run the company; they have them run by people they CO-approve and CO-parachuted. But I'm quite sure that if a major shareholder like the CPB wouldn't approve with a certain appointed management-member it probably would not become factual. What do you think ?

Publicly listed doesn't mean anything; it depends how small or large the % is of the non-voting-rights listed shares.

BTW: I am not judging here any transaction since I wasn't referring to that.

LaoPo

What you are claiming, in essence, is that the CEO of these companies is a nominee of the CPB. Is that correct?

Having had personal experience with the two companies I mentioned, I can tell you that this is not true.

Edited September 2, 2008 by onethailand