State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[ubonjoe]

I am getting ready to go to bed.

I don't have the desire to answer a bunch of questions individually at this moment.

If any of you have read my previous posts you will know that I support TRT/PPP. I have not made any attemp to hide that fact. I belive they have done more for the rural people of Thailand than any other in history.

I believe that the Democrat party and the others that boycotted the elections in 06 are guilty of commiting the most undemocratic act possible and their actions lead to the mess the country is in now.

The vote buying issue always comes up and at times it sounds like beating a dead dog.

If political parties did what they say they will do it wouldn't happen and it has had little influence in the recent elections according to some reports.

I just cannot understand all the hatred that comes out when Thaksin or the TRT/PPP enters into a discussion.

Why Why Why If somebody could answer that question honestly it would help. It comes out like he/they did something personaly to them. I just don't get it.

I think it's about time that some people wake up and realize that all this hatred is the root of the problems we have now in Thailand. It has gotten way to personal.

I don't hate anybody. I may not like them. I may diagree with their opinon or philosaphies but don't hate them.

Lets just get over it and move on. Its history, it's over, its done and a lot more phrases I could come up with,

Good night.

[endure]

Posts have been deleted and warnings have been given. Be civil please.

[sriracha john]

Slain protester's sister files complaint against six PAD leaders

A relative of the man killed in violent clashes between pro- and anti-government factions on Tuesday filed a complaint yesterday against six leading members of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

His sister Chaba Singhaklangpol, 70, insisted that Narongsak Kobthaisong, 55, a Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) supporter who died of head injuries sustained during the street riots, was not a homeless person hired to protest but a man with a political ideology.

*highlighted for ubonjoe*

Chaba was accompanied to Nang Lerng police station yesterday afternoon by leading DAAD members, including Viputhalaeng Pattanaphumthai.

She urged police to arrest Somsak Kosaisuk, Somkiat Pongpaiboon, Piphob Dhongchai, Chamlong Srimuang, Sondhi Limthongkul, and Suriyasai Katasila for holding a protest resulting in death and injury.

They also presented evidence, including CDs and photos, of the rioting.

"My brother died because PAD protesters fatally attacked him. I want police to bring the culprits to justice," she said. "I don't want my brother to have died for nothing. I want everyone to know who is responsible for his death. *with the highest possible respect to you, Khun Chaba and sad as the answer may be to hear, he is...*

I want the PAD to stop what they're doing," she added.

Pol Lt-Colonel Noppakhun Prathumpetch said police had not yet charged anyone over Tuesday's morning's violence and were gathering evidence and interviewing the injured as they tried to identify the culprits.

He said that, even though no complaint had been filed, police would investigate the matter as a criminal case involving premeditated murder.

Chaba earlier told reporters at Vajira Hospital that Narongsak had visited her in Kanchanaburi and asked for money to join in the DAAD protest at Sanam Luang because he was concerned for the country and disagreed with the PAD demonstrators surrounding Government House with no respect for the law.

She said she urged him not to go and gave him no money, but later learned he had gone to Bangkok by pawning his ring to a friend for Bt200.

"Narongsak was like our elder brother Thiangtham na Muangphut, who joined protests against dictatorship during the regimes of Field Marshal Prapas Charusathien and Field Marshal Thanom Kittikachorn until he was arrested. Thiangtham was later the first person to be released by a royal pardon," she said.

Chaba said she would have Narongsak's body kept in Bangkok for a merit-making ritual as requested by DAAD supporters, before bringing him home for cremation in Kanchanaburi's Sai Yok district.

Leading DAAD member Somyos Pruksakasemsuk said the group would assist Narongsak's family with funeral expenses and money raised through donations, which currently amounts to Bt100,000. *somehow doesn't seem adequate*

Somyos said the merit-making ritual would be held at Bangkok's Wat Samian Naree for 21 days.

He said the relatives wanted to meet with Samak Sundaravej to hear the prime minister's assurance that Narongsak had not died for nothing.

The DAAD is trying to establish exactly where Narongsak was attacked, *hopefully so are the investigating police* with a view to possibly building a monument for him, he added.

- The Nation / 2008-09-05

Edited September 4, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Opinion

Referendum a stall tactic as country slides downhill

By Thanong Khanthong

The Nation

Published on September 5, 2008

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said he was sorry to disappoint so many people, but that he would not resign, nor would he dissolve Parliament. It was simply a trick of his. He had no intention whatsoever of stepping down after rumours were swirling on Wednesday evening that he would go on Radio Thailand at 7.30am yesterday to announce his resignation.

Indeed, it was unusual for the prime minister to have booked a radio slot with the Public Relations Department at that early hour, given the fact that he can always speak publicly whenever he wants to and TV as well as radio stations would greet him enthusiastically.

In his radio address yesterday morning, Samak reiterated his will to stay on as prime minister and defend democracy till the end. Nobody can pressure him. This time round he tried to use a more amiable tone to calm the nerves of his audience.

Samak gave the same reason for his decision to stay on in his address on Sunday during the joint session of Senate and Parliament, which saw no resolution reached over how lawmakers might deal with the political crisis.

Known for being a great communicator, Samak did not want to use television to convey his message this time. He instead wanted to reach a broader mass of Thais living in the countryside. Radio was better suited to this purpose. He spoke simply in an attempt to appeal to the rural masses, hoping to rally their support of his premiership and his administration.

In the afternoon, he also went on a radio talk show hosted by Weera Thiraphat. Again, the prime minister hoped to reach his grass-roots audience, including taxi drivers and common people in the metropolitan areas.

Weera is a famous radio host, known for his hard-hitting comments and analysis. (You get the verbal equivalent of a slap in the face if you phone into his programme and ask a stupid question.)

Amidst all of this his Cabinet, which met at Army headquarters because Government House has been hijacked, approved to resolve the political crisis by holding a national referendum.

It is a stall tactic. To start with, it is funny that the Samak Cabinet plans to hold a referendum on whether Thais would prefer the Samak government to continue to run the country; or one asking them to choose between the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and the Samak government.

A referendum should only be held on very hard and serious issues of critical importance to the future of the country, such as the approval or disapproval of a new constitution, or an issue such as whether Thailand should join in on a single Asian currency, for example.

No country in the world holds a referendum involving an unregistered movement like the PAD, or one asking citizens whether or not they like their government.

Anyway, it serves to show the whole world that Samak is sticking to democratic principles in contrast to the mob rule at Government House.

Samak said protesters could continue to occupy Government House until the referendum is conducted. He would like the Council of State, the government's legal advisory body, to consider the possibility of the referendum.

The referendum law, which has passed the House of Representatives, is now with the Senate, which would seem to have to pass the law within 90 days for it to come into effect.

So when will the referendum ever take place?

But more importantly, Samak's lip-service on the referendum is a response to Army chief General Anupong Paochinda, Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and the public at large, who have been calling on him to resolve the political crisis via Parliament.

It's Samak saying: If you want Parliament to solve this issue, so be it - let's have a referendum.

In the meantime, Bangkok is in its fourth day under a state of emergency without any incidents but with growing signs of state failure. Thailand's credit is plummeting. The economy is heading toward disaster.

[permanent_disorder]

OK smart guy, please also explain why TRT and TRT 2nd edition give them money if they would vote them anyway?? Either they want to get rid of their stolen money or it is simply not true

because thai rak thai, patronage and loyalty?

why is it so difficult to understand that some vote for the TRT, and/or like them? you have dumb people everywhere, just look at this forum, even the dumber PAD BS gets supported.

whats wrong with vote selling anyway? as long there is every 4 years a election, to correct errors. why not sell my vote? it's my vote so i want rather sell it instead give away my vote for teamA or team B for free? selling is the only way to make profit, select a team by myself will don't change anything.

and i am also sure in certain areas voter will sell to their favorite team only. you can not buy everything for money, selling BS on a saucer is much easier.

[Nampeung]

Permanent disorder obviously has one

Take a look at this to remember what might happen

[Nampeung]

And again just in case people like Permanent Disorder are under any ullusions about what goes down here

Strikes me as the sort of man who thinks women don't have brains

Edited September 4, 2008 by endure
Edited for language

[Tony Clifton]

To begin with, the referendum issue should be a non-starter. It's an inappropriate vehicle aimed only at stalling. It's sketchy even by PPP's own admission with an indefinite timeline that would be months and months down the line and at the end of which would prove nothing.

Is this the best the Leadership can come up with?

Are you serious? Some of you guys see able to convince yourselves of ANYTHING as long as it fits your ultimate objective.

Obviously it would prove more than "nothing". It would prove whether the population wants Samak to leave or not. Seems pretty straightforward to me. And what's wrong with "months and months" if that's how long it takes to get a good answer via a referendum. Patience. Good grief, the guy was elected THIS YEAR! Calm your horses!

So, explain to me how can this government be trusted or even have the nerve to propose a referendun today when they`ve already been caught twice at electoral fraud and are in line now for a second party dissolution?

Oh, maybe hold the referendum under TRT ver. 3.0?

[Gnarpjohan]

Kurt, nobody is perfect (least of all me, don't take my criticism of you too personally .... I think many of us are really getting worked up by the bloody farce we are seeing on the streets of Bangkok, so I'm sorry if you took offense)

All along the oponents of PAD and Sondhi have made it crystal clear that they are not excusing Samak, Thaksin and TRT/PPP for the criminal things they did, but we were much more scared of Sondhi's perverted vendetta, his loathsome corrupt past, his neo-fascist views on voting (or rather on not-voting if you're poor and your skin is the wrong colour!), etc., etc. And then the bloody murderer of those Muslims, General Panlop was seen sliding into the PAD leadership!!!!! Too much for any right-thinking man.

It's interesting how the PAD supporters on this forum know so little about the PAD leaders.... I recommend they all give their names a google and have a read on wikipedia and others. You may be surprised what hypercrites they all are....

It's interesting on how people on this forum think Wikipedia is the ultimate truth.

I suggest you read this short exchange between Laopo and I, a single post that shows you wiki is as divided as Thaivisa members are on the issue.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2183108

It's interesting that some people on this forum believe that all of Thailand's problems begins and ends with Thaksin Shinawatra. If you find some material factual error in Wikipedia that if left out would make the PAD leaders appear in a whole new light , I'm sure you would let us all know.

[Tony Clifton]

DAAD cancels rally riot in Samut Prakan

The Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship Thursday removed its rally riot stage in Samut Prakan and announced its decision to halt its rally deliberate armed forward attacks against the People's Alliance for Democracy.

The stage was demolished at about 4 pm.

One of its leadersattack organisers, Pornchai Korwattanamongkol announced that the DAAD had resolved to stop rallies nationwide it`s attacks in Bangkok to give the government a free hand to take action against the PAD a breather as it became too obvious DAAD, the police and the government were clearly working hand in hand the night of the clash.

The Nation

The Nation badly needs a proof reader.

[davee58]

DAAD cancels rally riot in Samut Prakan

The Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship Thursday removed its rally riot stage in Samut Prakan and announced its decision to halt its rally deliberate armed forward attacks against the People's Alliance for Democracy.

The stage was demolished at about 4 pm.

One of its leadersattack organisers, Pornchai Korwattanamongkol announced that the DAAD had resolved to stop rallies nationwide it`s attacks in Bangkok to give the government a free hand to take action against the PAD a breather as it became too obvious DAAD, the police and the government were clearly working hand in hand the night of the clash.

The Nation

The Nation badly needs a proof reader.

Hi Tony.

I think you misunderstand the term "proof reader".

You are quite free to interpret the news any way you want.

Dave..

[Tony Clifton]

Ghandi in action....

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/O...80902104646.jpg

It's interesting isn't it that the first person to die in these tensions was not a PAD supporter. Hmmm and I dont see in any of the pictures from the incident on Tuesday PAD using self defence techniques more like clubbing the opposition to death.

The opposition that got clubbed wasn't anywhere around for at least a hundred days, then decided to set up camp nearby, were intoxicated and WALKED TOWARDS the PAD rally weapons in hand, escorted by police with no resistance whatsoever, conveniently, the State of Emergency was declared once one was killed and 40 some hurt.

F* self-defence when a group intentionally marches towards and attacks an immobile group with deadly weapons.

Had they remained in Sanam Luang, none of this would have happened, it was clearly coordinated between police/DAAD/govt. to declare a State of Emergency which has had absolutely no purpose since then.

As always, you state facts that are in clear contradiction of eyewitness reports, i.e. PAD guards whipped up into a frenzy from the stage and then sent to repulse DAAD at the bridge. DAAD did not attack the PAD demo at Gov. Hse. Had they done so, the defence of "self-defence" could have been used.

Time for a geography lesson.

Unintentional if I mistakenly said Govt House instead of Makawan, you know that but still point to it although they are next to each other.

Look at the rough distance traveled by DAAD, escorted by police all along:whistling:, to reach the PAD, much greater.

DAAD came to the area over a hundred days AFTER the PAD protest had started there.

Who cares if I said Govt. House or Makawan, they are a stone`s throw from each other compared to the distance traveled by DAAD.

One could consider they totally lost any sense of orientation as they were clearly drunk AND were following two PPP MPs.

Let`s give the readers some perspective here.

And then Samut Prakarn towards the bottom where DAAD set up a stage and announced they would raid the inert, according to pro-gov supporters, Democrat Party Headquarters. Look at the greater Bangkok, why set up at Sanam Luang initially?

Edited September 4, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[Tony Clifton]

^The USSR used to tie German kids and women to their tanks while they were invading Germany in the final weeks of WW2, so that the Wehrmacht would think twice about firing on them

the germans just put them in the gas chambers me thinks neither of these relate to this situation

Interesting how they feel compelled to associate WWII atrocities from 60 some years ago to add weight to their arguments when many of the local factories are already filled with children while others are trafficked to become beggars or commodities for child prostitution.

Well said, Tony. Under PAD proposals, the poor and uneducated will be denied any right to vote or participate in decision making, they will in fact become an under-class. The Bangkok elite would be quite happy to see these children used as objects of abuse, as long as the profits continue to come their way.

You were also in that quote but somehow escaped.

You almost sound like a factory owner about to lose his entire staff.

[Tony Clifton]

Sriracha John, Tony Clifton, Herr h90, Plus and others.

If the followign referndum question was asked, would you allow international election observers to monitor this and would you go along with the results?

Question:

A group of demonstrators has seized some Government buildings and other areas in the capital and elsewhere. The police and army have been reluctant to enforce court orders to remove them, and some court orders are pending an appeal by the protestors. The elected Government is askng for the public's view on the following question.

Should the authorities the Royal Thai Police (and the military if required) be obliged to evict the protestors from the public places and Government premises if they do not leave voluntarily as requested by the Government?

Yes?

No?

Hard to say...these questions do not specify in time if this is BEFORE of AFTER a public inquiry into this very same known-to-be-corrupt and PPP party appointed police force voluntarily offering no resistance whatsoever against DAAD rioters prior to a deadly clash, even escorting them most of the way to their target area so that the PM can use the triggered situation to declare a state of emergency with the only purpose of assuming the government is in control when it is clearly not.

The same Police Chief and subordinates who gave orders then could very well still be in post.

NO

Edited September 4, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[Thanh-BKK]

Time for a geography lesson.

Unintentional if I mistakenly said Govt House instead of Makawan, you know that but still point to it although they are next to each other.

Look at the rough distance traveled by DAAD, escorted by police all along:whistling:, to reach the PAD, much greater.

DAAD came to the area over a hundred days AFTER the PAD protest had started there.

Who cares if I said Govt. House or Makawan, they are a stone`s throw from each other compared to the distance traveled by DAAD.

One could consider they totally lost any sense of orientation as they were clearly drunk AND were following two PPP MPs.

Let`s give the readers some perspective here.

And then Samut Prakarn towards the bottom where DAAD set up a stage and announced they would raid the inert, according to pro-gov supporters, Democrat Party Headquarters. Look at the greater Bangkok, why set up at Sanam Luang initially?

My friend.....

I believe some people just don't get it. They are the same people that still insist PAD are the bad guys - after all, the current PM was oh-so-"democratically" and "lawfully" elected. Democratic as in "German Democratic Republic", if anyone remembers that country - where you COULD vote - "yes" or "no" to the one existing party, and where "no" votes were deemed "invalid" - and "invalid" votes automatically counted as "yes" votes. THAT kind of "democratic" was that last election here.

Oh, and the GDR was brought down by what? Yup, "mob rule", essentially peaceful protests in the streets that ALSO blocked major roads, caused major inconvenience to ordinary people etc.

Politics isn't for me, but neither is corruption - Thaksin should rot in jail right now, and Samak, probably not in jail, at least shouldn't be in politics and much less lead the country. Power to the people! I said "POWER", not "BRIBES". PAD are doing the right thing - and if were me, i would do much more - shut down Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang at once, THAT would get people to put pressure on the government. And shut down the bloody TV stations that serve nothing but soaps to the masses - if Thais don't get soaps, they'll do something, such as protest the government - and be it just to get their soaps back.

Go PAD!

At least they DO something.

Regards

Thanh

[Tony Clifton]

Ghandi in action....

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/O...80902104646.jpg

It's interesting isn't it that the first person to die in these tensions was not a PAD supporter. Hmmm and I dont see in any of the pictures from the incident on Tuesday PAD using self defence techniques more like clubbing the opposition to death.

The opposition that got clubbed wasn't anywhere around for at least a hundred days, then decided to set up camp nearby, were intoxicated and WALKED TOWARDS the PAD rally weapons in hand, escorted by police with no resistance whatsoever, conveniently, the State of Emergency was declared once one was killed and 40 some hurt.

F* self-defence when a group intentionally marches towards and attacks an immobile group with deadly weapons.

Had they remained in Sanam Luang, none of this would have happened, it was clearly coordinated between police/DAAD/govt. to declare a State of Emergency which has had absolutely no purpose since then.

As always, you state facts that are in clear contradiction of eyewitness reports, i.e. PAD guards whipped up into a frenzy from the stage and then sent to repulse DAAD at the bridge. DAAD did not attack the PAD demo at Gov. Hse. Had they done so, the defence of "self-defence" could have been used.

see, thats how this stupid right wing brainwash propaganda works, just take a common hate object and the light brainer will believe you everything.

I figure that by now you`ve already seen the Google pics above regarding my use of the word immobile

AS far as I know, DAAD had a truck with loudspeakers rolling and following the drunker rioters along with a PPP MP or two holding a flag up front. Oh, let`s not forget the friendly police escort offering no resistance whatsoever, this over a distance of roughly 2 kilometers.

PAD were stationed at Makawan bridge, right next to Govt House.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[blaze]

Lower left hand side of the post is this:

..you were saying ?

LaoPo

I was saying that is the ideal way of dealing with a situation that involves

PS moderators, he/she flamed me in no uncertain terms.

I did not hit report.

The moderators are looking at lots of this.

I want to see what THEY think is insulting behavior

and where they draw the line.

I AM a moderator on another board, with 4 years of doing this job,

and with conservatives and liberals at the far extremes at

each others throats. I understand the even handed concept pretty well.

And I try to NEVER let MY personal feelings be part of it.

Out of bounds, is still out, whether I like your idea or not.

I felt, and STILL feel, I my words were twisted

and taken out of context

and then I was called 'disgusting' because of this NEW context.

If that's not flaming I won't know what it is.

So I left them a note and waited to see the result.

aniamatic- I write this, not out of fear of getting banned (I bin throw'ed outta better gin joints than this one) - but to genuinely apologize for any insult that I conveyed in my post. I wish that in your original post you would have subtituted the word 'if' for 'which'- but never the less- I took a cheap shot- and yes, I confess I was guilty of the very opportunism I accused you of. My apologies.

[Plus]

Plus- where did you get this information about sector representation? I'm not challenging it- it's just that I'm totally unfamiliar with it in the PAD context (I am familiar with it in the context of various dictatorships- fascist as well as communist) but from what I have heard from Sondhi, the appointees would be selected basically on their 'goodness'- kind of like the way the appointed component of the senate is selected.

The first result from Google:

"30% of MPs would come from elections, perhaps one per province, and the rest of the MPs would derive from various occupations and associations."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/080708_News/08Jul2008_news24.php

because thai rak thai, patronage and loyalty?

why is it so difficult to understand that some vote for the TRT, and/or like them?

Well, people have two ballots - one for the local MP, one for the Party list. Many people voted for a local candidate from PPP but ticked Democrats on a party list.

And that's where read battlegrounds are - to get as many "shoe in" MPs under you party banner as possible, that's where the vote buying money goes - to attract best electable candidates. This battle has nothing to do with party policies or ideology.

In the last elections the discrepancy between party popularity and the number of seats they eventually got was glaringly obvious, and it will happen again, Dems will probably win more seats on party list cos PPP has lost Thaksin, their best magnet in terms of party popularity, but PPPs stronghold on local politicians is very hard to break, they've been building this team for six-seven years now, and, in fact, they have roots in the old NAP and mid-nineties.

[blaze]

Plus- where did you get this information about sector representation? I'm not challenging it- it's just that I'm totally unfamiliar with it in the PAD context (I am familiar with it in the context of various dictatorships- fascist as well as communist) but from what I have heard from Sondhi, the appointees would be selected basically on their 'goodness'- kind of like the way the appointed component of the senate is selected.

The first result from Google:

"30% of MPs would come from elections, perhaps one per province, and the rest of the MPs would derive from various occupations and associations."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/080708_News/08Jul2008_news24.php

because thai rak thai, patronage and loyalty?

why is it so difficult to understand that some vote for the TRT, and/or like them?

Well, people have two ballots - one for the local MP, one for the Party list. Many people voted for a local candidate from PPP but ticked Democrats on a party list.

And that's where read battlegrounds are - to get as many "shoe in" MPs under you party banner as possible, that's where the vote buying money goes - to attract best electable candidates. This battle has nothing to do with party policies or ideology.

In the last elections the discrepancy between party popularity and the number of seats they eventually got was glaringly obvious, and it will happen again, Dems will probably win more seats on party list cos PPP has lost Thaksin, their best magnet in terms of party popularity, but PPPs stronghold on local politicians is very hard to break, they've been building this team for six-seven years now, and, in fact, they have roots in the old NAP and mid-nineties.

THanks for the link Plus- it's an excellent piece and puts the 'new politics' into the context of modern Thai history very well.

[ubonjoe]

Slain protester's sister files complaint against six PAD leaders

A relative of the man killed in violent clashes between pro- and anti-government factions on Tuesday filed a complaint yesterday against six leading members of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

His sister Chaba Singhaklangpol, 70, insisted that Narongsak Kobthaisong, 55, a Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) supporter who died of head injuries sustained during the street riots, was not a homeless person hired to protest but a man with a political ideology.

*highlighted for ubonjoe*

Chaba was accompanied to Nang Lerng police station yesterday afternoon by leading DAAD members, including Viputhalaeng Pattanaphumthai.

She urged police to arrest Somsak Kosaisuk, Somkiat Pongpaiboon, Piphob Dhongchai, Chamlong Srimuang, Sondhi Limthongkul, and Suriyasai Katasila for holding a protest resulting in death and injury.

They also presented evidence, including CDs and photos, of the rioting.

"My brother died because PAD protesters fatally attacked him. I want police to bring the culprits to justice," she said. "I don't want my brother to have died for nothing. I want everyone to know who is responsible for his death. *with the highest possible respect to you, Khun Chaba and sad as the answer may be to hear, he is...*

I want the PAD to stop what they're doing," she added.

Pol Lt-Colonel Noppakhun Prathumpetch said police had not yet charged anyone over Tuesday's morning's violence and were gathering evidence and interviewing the injured as they tried to identify the culprits.

He said that, even though no complaint had been filed, police would investigate the matter as a criminal case involving premeditated murder.

Chaba earlier told reporters at Vajira Hospital that Narongsak had visited her in Kanchanaburi and asked for money to join in the DAAD protest at Sanam Luang because he was concerned for the country and disagreed with the PAD demonstrators surrounding Government House with no respect for the law.

She said she urged him not to go and gave him no money, but later learned he had gone to Bangkok by pawning his ring to a friend for Bt200.

"Narongsak was like our elder brother Thiangtham na Muangphut, who joined protests against dictatorship during the regimes of Field Marshal Prapas Charusathien and Field Marshal Thanom Kittikachorn until he was arrested. Thiangtham was later the first person to be released by a royal pardon," she said.

Chaba said she would have Narongsak's body kept in Bangkok for a merit-making ritual as requested by DAAD supporters, before bringing him home for cremation in Kanchanaburi's Sai Yok district.

Leading DAAD member Somyos Pruksakasemsuk said the group would assist Narongsak's family with funeral expenses and money raised through donations, which currently amounts to Bt100,000. *somehow doesn't seem adequate*

Somyos said the merit-making ritual would be held at Bangkok's Wat Samian Naree for 21 days.

He said the relatives wanted to meet with Samak Sundaravej to hear the prime minister's assurance that Narongsak had not died for nothing.

The DAAD is trying to establish exactly where Narongsak was attacked, *hopefully so are the investigating police* with a view to possibly building a monument for him, he added.

- The Nation / 2008-09-05

Thank you for the collaborating story.

I had to look a bit to find it a link to it would of made it easier. Wasn't looking for it thinking that you would post anything doctored it's because the article on breaking news still is the short version that was the original pos. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30082589

[robee]

I think it was only a matter of time. A stalemate like the one that was going on doesn't last forever, something has to give and it did.

true. Hard to remain level headed and thinking clearly... Situation gets worse daily.

[robee]

Slain protester's sister files complaint against six PAD leaders

A relative of the man killed in violent clashes between pro- and anti-government factions on Tuesday filed a complaint yesterday against six leading members of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

His sister Chaba Singhaklangpol, 70, insisted that Narongsak Kobthaisong, 55, a Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) supporter who died of head injuries sustained during the street riots, was not a homeless person hired to protest but a man with a political ideology.

*highlighted for ubonjoe*

Chaba was accompanied to Nang Lerng police station yesterday afternoon by leading DAAD members, including Viputhalaeng Pattanaphumthai.

She urged police to arrest Somsak Kosaisuk, Somkiat Pongpaiboon, Piphob Dhongchai, Chamlong Srimuang, Sondhi Limthongkul, and Suriyasai Katasila for holding a protest resulting in death and injury.

They also presented evidence, including CDs and photos, of the rioting.

"My brother died because PAD protesters fatally attacked him. I want police to bring the culprits to justice," she said. "I don't want my brother to have died for nothing. I want everyone to know who is responsible for his death. *with the highest possible respect to you, Khun Chaba and sad as the answer may be to hear, he is...*

I want the PAD to stop what they're doing," she added.

Pol Lt-Colonel Noppakhun Prathumpetch said police had not yet charged anyone over Tuesday's morning's violence and were gathering evidence and interviewing the injured as they tried to identify the culprits.

He said that, even though no complaint had been filed, police would investigate the matter as a criminal case involving premeditated murder.

Chaba earlier told reporters at Vajira Hospital that Narongsak had visited her in Kanchanaburi and asked for money to join in the DAAD protest at Sanam Luang because he was concerned for the country and disagreed with the PAD demonstrators surrounding Government House with no respect for the law.

She said she urged him not to go and gave him no money, but later learned he had gone to Bangkok by pawning his ring to a friend for Bt200.

"Narongsak was like our elder brother Thiangtham na Muangphut, who joined protests against dictatorship during the regimes of Field Marshal Prapas Charusathien and Field Marshal Thanom Kittikachorn until he was arrested. Thiangtham was later the first person to be released by a royal pardon," she said.

Chaba said she would have Narongsak's body kept in Bangkok for a merit-making ritual as requested by DAAD supporters, before bringing him home for cremation in Kanchanaburi's Sai Yok district.

Leading DAAD member Somyos Pruksakasemsuk said the group would assist Narongsak's family with funeral expenses and money raised through donations, which currently amounts to Bt100,000. *somehow doesn't seem adequate*

Somyos said the merit-making ritual would be held at Bangkok's Wat Samian Naree for 21 days.

He said the relatives wanted to meet with Samak Sundaravej to hear the prime minister's assurance that Narongsak had not died for nothing.

The DAAD is trying to establish exactly where Narongsak was attacked, *hopefully so are the investigating police* with a view to possibly building a monument for him, he added.

- The Nation / 2008-09-05

Thank you for the collaborating story.

I had to look a bit to find it a link to it would of made it easier. Wasn't looking for it thinking that you would post anything doctored it's because the article on breaking news still is the short version that was the original pos. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30082589

thanks fornthat .

[robee]

Lower left hand side of the post is this:

..you were saying ?

LaoPo

I was saying that is the ideal way of dealing with a situation that involves

PS moderators, he/she flamed me in no uncertain terms.

I did not hit report.

The moderators are looking at lots of this.

I want to see what THEY think is insulting behavior

Thanks for that.

and where they draw the line.

I AM a moderator on another board, with 4 years of doing this job,

and with conservatives and liberals at the far extremes at

each others throats. I understand the even handed concept pretty well.

And I try to NEVER let MY personal feelings be part of it.

Out of bounds, is still out, whether I like your idea or not.

I felt, and STILL feel, I my words were twisted

and taken out of context

and then I was called 'disgusting' because of this NEW context.

If that's not flaming I won't know what it is.

So I left them a note and waited to see the result.

aniamatic- I write this, not out of fear of getting banned (I bin throw'ed outta better gin joints than this one) - but to genuinely apologize for any insult that I conveyed in my post. I wish that in your original post you would have subtituted the word 'if' for 'which'- but never the less- I took a cheap shot- and yes, I confess I was guilty of the very opportunism I accused you of. My apologies.

[Thai at Heart]

Plus- where did you get this information about sector representation? I'm not challenging it- it's just that I'm totally unfamiliar with it in the PAD context (I am familiar with it in the context of various dictatorships- fascist as well as communist) but from what I have heard from Sondhi, the appointees would be selected basically on their 'goodness'- kind of like the way the appointed component of the senate is selected.

The first result from Google:

"30% of MPs would come from elections, perhaps one per province, and the rest of the MPs would derive from various occupations and associations."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/080708_News/08Jul2008_news24.php

because thai rak thai, patronage and loyalty?

why is it so difficult to understand that some vote for the TRT, and/or like them?

Well, people have two ballots - one for the local MP, one for the Party list. Many people voted for a local candidate from PPP but ticked Democrats on a party list.

And that's where read battlegrounds are - to get as many "shoe in" MPs under you party banner as possible, that's where the vote buying money goes - to attract best electable candidates. This battle has nothing to do with party policies or ideology.

In the last elections the discrepancy between party popularity and the number of seats they eventually got was glaringly obvious, and it will happen again, Dems will probably win more seats on party list cos PPP has lost Thaksin, their best magnet in terms of party popularity, but PPPs stronghold on local politicians is very hard to break, they've been building this team for six-seven years now, and, in fact, they have roots in the old NAP and mid-nineties.

THanks for the link Plus- it's an excellent piece and puts the 'new politics' into the context of modern Thai history very well.

Rather ironic when one considered the stink that having the economic advisors sitting in on meetings caused.

I think one can see where this would all end up. Thailand would probably end up closing itself off economically from the rest of the world as protectionism got ramped up to protect the businesses that already exist today.

It definitely would not be in the benefit of the employee or lower class. Nearly all the major business groups and companies on the Stock Exchange of Thailand are already operating behind some forms of tariff or licensing restriction. They have made their deals long ago with whichever government and are sitting pretty. They are all mainly Bangkok-centric.

Debates in the Parliament about anything progressive are always coloured by the emotional statement of selling the country. As an example CP/Ekkachai/Tesco group was allied with TRT, and has gone on it's merry way opening up Tesco's and 7-11's all over the country. CP is also one of the largest exporters of chicken to the UK to Tesco. This is the reality.

Meanwhile, the retailers association of Thailand has been campaigning that Tesco is hurting the the common Thai shopkeeper and is hurting the poor. Meanwhile CP has gone on it's merry way opening 7-11's every 450 metres on every major city street with barely a murmur of protest. Tesco catches all the flack because it is foreign, 7-11 is ironically Thai owned so can defend itself from the accusation of being a foreign conspiracy.

The retailers association is not protecting the common shopkeeper at all, it is trying to protect the medium sized middle man who is in this situation just a rent taker on product. He had a role to play when it took 3 months to transport product around the country, today he is a dinosaur. He is an unnecessary step in the chain of distribution. He is normally local, and he is normally enormously wealthy and locally powerful. They are not acting to protect the mom and pop shops because they are going out of business, they are acting to protect the wealthy middleman because for the first time he is being undercut and his customers are buying elsewhere. This is the middle class that is complaining.

Meanwhile where is the common shopkeeper stocking up on food and produce by the trolley load? Tesco, Makro and the other hypermarkets because it is cheaper. Where is 80% of the product that is sold by these hypermarkets purchased? Thailand. Many direct from the supplier with no middle man involved. I don't like all the business practices of all hypermarkets, but the arguement against them is not being framed correctly in Thailand.

Every day there are complaints that foreign companies are entering various markets. Who is really complaining? The middle man.

Who are these middle men? Well I don't want to get involved in stereotyping, but I think we have seen them and know. They are part of every step of import and export in Thailand. They are the silent 51% of many companies who take profit for providing nothing economically but have a connection. They are the exclusive distributor who bought his license and pays under the table every year to keep it. They are the people who fight against farmer co-ops because they are socialist! They are the rent takers who get fat in the middle of every deal and who are definitely on keeping margins high through hiding behind government protection. They have had it their way for a long time, and do not like the competition they see coming their way if Thailand opens up.

Now, what would be the result of having the retailers association sitting in Parliament. It would shout at the top of it's voice "selling the country" every time a debate about retail law was raised because it is in the nature of "businesses groups" in Thailand to protect themselves. This would I believe go for every other association.

Meanwhile, screw the common man.

[ubonjoe]

Plus- where did you get this information about sector representation? I'm not challenging it- it's just that I'm totally unfamiliar with it in the PAD context (I am familiar with it in the context of various dictatorships- fascist as well as communist) but from what I have heard from Sondhi, the appointees would be selected basically on their 'goodness'- kind of like the way the appointed component of the senate is selected.

The first result from Google:

"30% of MPs would come from elections, perhaps one per province, and the rest of the MPs would derive from various occupations and associations."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/080708_News/08Jul2008_news24.php

because thai rak thai, patronage and loyalty?

why is it so difficult to understand that some vote for the TRT, and/or like them?

Well, people have two ballots - one for the local MP, one for the Party list. Many people voted for a local candidate from PPP but ticked Democrats on a party list.

And that's where read battlegrounds are - to get as many "shoe in" MPs under you party banner as possible, that's where the vote buying money goes - to attract best electable candidates. This battle has nothing to do with party policies or ideology.

In the last elections the discrepancy between party popularity and the number of seats they eventually got was glaringly obvious, and it will happen again, Dems will probably win more seats on party list cos PPP has lost Thaksin, their best magnet in terms of party popularity, but PPPs stronghold on local politicians is very hard to break, they've been building this team for six-seven years now, and, in fact, they have roots in the old NAP and mid-nineties.

THanks for the link Plus- it's an excellent piece and puts the 'new politics' into the context of modern Thai history very well.

Rather ironic when one considered the stink that having the economic advisors sitting in on meetings caused.

I think one can see where this would all end up. Thailand would probably end up closing itself off economically from the rest of the world as protectionism got ramped up to protect the businesses that already exist today.

It definitely would not be in the benefit of the employee or lower class. Nearly all the major business groups and companies on the Stock Exchange of Thailand are already operating behind some forms of tariff or licensing restriction. They have made their deals long ago with whichever government and are sitting pretty. They are all mainly Bangkok-centric.

Debates in the Parliament about anything progressive are always coloured by the emotional statement of selling the country. As an example CP/Ekkachai/Tesco group was allied with TRT, and has gone on it's merry way opening up Tesco's and 7-11's all over the country. CP is also one of the largest exporters of chicken to the UK to Tesco. This is the reality.

Meanwhile, the retailers association of Thailand has been campaigning that Tesco is hurting the the common Thai shopkeeper and is hurting the poor. Meanwhile CP has gone on it's merry way opening 7-11's every 450 metres on every major city street with barely a murmur of protest. Tesco catches all the flack because it is foreign, 7-11 is ironically Thai owned so can defend itself from the accusation of being a foreign conspiracy.

The retailers association is not protecting the common shopkeeper at all, it is trying to protect the medium sized middle man who is in this situation just a rent taker on product. He had a role to play when it took 3 months to transport product around the country, today he is a dinosaur. He is an unnecessary step in the chain of distribution. He is normally local, and he is normally enormously wealthy and locally powerful. They are not acting to protect the mom and pop shops because they are going out of business, they are acting to protect the wealthy middleman because for the first time he is being undercut and his customers are buying elsewhere. This is the middle class that is complaining.

Meanwhile where is the common shopkeeper stocking up on food and produce by the trolley load? Tesco, Makro and the other hypermarkets because it is cheaper. Where is 80% of the product that is sold by these hypermarkets purchased? Thailand. Many direct from the supplier with no middle man involved. I don't like all the business practices of all hypermarkets, but the arguement against them is not being framed correctly in Thailand.

Every day there are complaints that foreign companies are entering various markets. Who is really complaining? The middle man.

Who are these middle men? Well I don't want to get involved in stereotyping, but I think we have seen them and know. They are part of every step of import and export in Thailand. They are the silent 51% of many companies who take profit for providing nothing economically but have a connection. They are the exclusive distributor who bought his license and pays under the table every year to keep it. They are the people who fight against farmer co-ops because they are socialist! They are the rent takers who get fat in the middle of every deal and who are definitely on keeping margins high through hiding behind government protection. They have had it their way for a long time, and do not like the competition they see coming their way if Thailand opens up.

Now, what would be the result of having the retailers association sitting in Parliament. It would shout at the top of it's voice "selling the country" every time a debate about retail law was raised because it is in the nature of "businesses groups" in Thailand to protect themselves. This would I believe go for every other association.

Meanwhile, screw the common man.

Very good post.

[Mosha]

I thought 7-11 was an American company.

http://www.7-eleven.com/AboutUs/tabid/73/Default.aspx

[thaigene2]

Referendum under attack

The government's call for a referendum to end the ongoing political strife has met with stiff resistance, with almost all concerned parties saying it was unconstitutional and merely a delaying tactic.

Opposition chief whip Sathit Wongnongtoey said any referendum to specific individuals or groups ran counter to Article 165 of the Constitution.

"It's simply a tactic to buy some time," he said.

- The Nation / 2008/09/05

No, actually it's a "tactic" to ask the people of Thailand - again - if they support the government or the little mob in Bangkok. We know what the outcome will be - the majority disapprove of the Mob and still like Thaksin and anyone who likes him.

Meanwhile, EC member Sodsri Satayathum said the EC was ready to conduct the referendum but that the government should make the questions clear.

Questions like should an outsider be allowed to be prime minister or should MPs be 30-per-cent elected and 70-per-cent appointed are allowed. But ones like should the prime minister resign are unconstitutional, she said.

- The Nation / 2008/09/05

Huh? It's unconstitutional for Samak to ask the populace whether he should step down, but it's perfectly 'consitutional' to ask whether democracy should be suspended to make way for an appointed parliament of elites? Man they've got some bright lights working for the EC, don't they?

[clausewitz]

Yet I suppose a sociologist with something to say about collective behavior, about skapegoats- about utopian thinking- might be able to shed some light.

I think you could say it as well as any sociologist. Nice post.

[ubonjoe]

I thought 7-11 was an American company.

http://www.7-eleven.com/AboutUs/tabid/73/Default.aspx

Correct they are an American company. CP has the concession for 7-11 in Thailand. They pay 7-11 for the right to use the 7-11 name.

It's the same for McDonalds, Burger King, KFC and etc.

[animatic]

OK smart guy, please also explain why TRT and TRT 2nd edition give them money if they would vote them anyway?? Either they want to get rid of their stolen money or it is simply not true

because thai rak thai, patronage and loyalty?

why is it so difficult to understand that some vote for the TRT, and/or like them? you have dumb people everywhere, just look at this forum, even the dumber PAD BS gets supported.

whats wrong with vote selling anyway? as long there is every 4 years a election, to correct errors. why not sell my vote? it's my vote so i want rather sell it instead give away my vote for teamA or team B for free? selling is the only way to make profit, select a team by myself will don't change anything.

and i am also sure in certain areas voter will sell to their favorite team only. you can not buy everything for money, selling BS on a saucer is much easier.

Other than the obvious that it is more patriotic to vote for the betterment of your country,

not to sell off your vote to the highest bidder and turn your back on the buyers for 4 years

as they steal from the country as a whole, using bid rigging, policy corruption and

extrajudicial executive orders, to benefit their own interests, and use that profit money

to buy your vote again.

Maybe after watching 8 years of Bush + Cheney / Haliburton

I am pretty much FED UP with this corruption issue,

in another country that I love dearly.